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New Day

Interview with Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush; February Jobs Report; Finding Jesus and John the Baptist

Aired March 06, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in former First Lady Laura Bush. She is the chair of the Bush Institute's Women's Initiative -- Women's Initiative Fellowship. That's a program that helps empower women in the Middle East and Africa to try to effect change back at home and plant the seeds of freedom.

Mrs. Bush, great to have you on NEW DAY.

LAURA BUSH, FMR. FIRST LADY: Thanks so much. Great to be here. Thanks a lot.

CAMEROTA: We have moved from the --

BUSH: Welcome to the Bush Museum.

CAMEROTA: It's so impressive. I've just spent time in the Oval Office, which is just incredible to see how true to form it is and all of the relics that you've re-created there. Now we're here at the Freedom Wall.

BUSH: Freedom Wall, that's right. These are all photographs and quotes from our eight years at the White House and all the various places we've visited. In fact, right behind me is a picture of us with the Dalai Lama, who came to visit us at the White House and has been here to visit us since we've been home to Dallas as well.

CAMEROTA: Well, this is perfect for what we'll be talking about because we want to talk about your vision and your mission, yours and President Bush's, for how to make change throughout the Middle East and Africa. And you both firmly believe that women --

BUSH: That women will lead the democracy movement. We do.

CAMEROTA: And women are key to spreading peace in democracy. How does that work?

BUSH: Well, what we've done here, we've had four years, four different groups of women fellows from the Middle East. We've had two groups of women from Egypt. And then we just graduated our first group from Tunisia and invited our second group of Tunisian women here for this fellowship, this women's fellowship that we have.

Our theory behind it is really based on some research done by an SMU professor -- we're here on the SMU campus in Dallas -- that shows that your network is more important to your success even than your education level. And in societies where women are slightly more isolated at home, they don't have the opportunity that we have as American women to build a strong, broad network.

So we've invited women from the same country every year so that when they leave here and go back home, they have each other. They are paired with a prominent American woman who's in their same field and they stay in contact with their American mentor all year. It's a year long fellowship.

And so what happens is they go home, they introduce their new friends that they've met from their own country to their friends and their colleagues and broaden their network. I think we heard last night that ur dinner with our old Egyptian fellow -- Tunisian fellows, the graduating Tunisian fellows, and the new class of Tunisian fellows, that they think their network now is 13,000 women, I think it is, the first group.

CAMEROTA: It has a ripple effect.

BUSH: That's right.

CAMEROTA: And so you believe if you show them democracy here and freedom of speech here --

BUSH: Well, what we want to show is how to build the civil institutions that are necessary to support a democracy. We inherited those. We don't know what it's like to start out without a free press, without even the right to assembly.

Once George and I were talking to an Egyptian woman and I thought about how in Texas, when George was governor, I learned that most public libraries in Texas were founded by women or women's clubs. I said, do you have any women's clubs? They could start to try to build these civil institutions. And she said we didn't have freedom of assembly. And we can't even imagine what it would be like not to have any kind of club or group or -- that we wanted to have.

So what they -- what we want them to learn is how to build these civil institutions that can support a democracy as they build their democracies.

CAMEROTA: And so given all the work that you're doing with these future entrepreneurs and politicians, it must being very disheartening for you to see what is happening in the Middle East while all of this is happening, with ISIS rampaging through, with Boko Haram kidnapping hundreds of women --

BUSH: Women, and girls and school girls.

CAMEROTA: Well, women and girls and school girls. It feels as if women are losing this fight.

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: Well, that is -- I mean, that's disheartening for everyone worldwide to watch that. And I think that's part of their effectiveness, is that we see these horrific acts that are isolated really. They're not everywhere, by any means. But because we see them everywhere on television over and over, I think we're more affected by them than really their power is not that -- as much as it looks like because we see it on television.

CAMEROTA: I'm curious about that. Do you think they are being depicted too much? Or do you think that --

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: No, I mean, I think they're the news. And that's their best point. That's their point. You know, that's why they do the horrible things that we can see and that we watch, that everyone sees on television. But I don't think we should be disheartened. I think there's a lot of good news as well. We just don't see it as often.

CAMEROTA: What do you think about the news out this week, the FBI warning that even American teenagers are somehow --

BUSH: Well, I think that's sad. I think it's sad that disaffected youth are attracted to that, but once again, that's not lots of people by any means. You know, if anything, it's a handful of people. And we need to keep that in perspective, I think. But we also need to teach the values that we know are important and make sure all of our children in the United States are educated. And we -- and we need to pass on the values that were passed on to us about the importance of the rights of every person, women and men.

CAMEROTA: So do you feel that the women who come here and who do see freedom of press -- I know that you took one tour to CNN and you took them to Silicon Valley, you showed them capitalism, you showed them entrepreneurial -- do you think that when they go home, they will be able to fight extremism?

BUSH: I think when they go home, they'll be able to start to build the civil institutions that will support their democracies. And we started with Egyptian women and Tunisian women because they were both countries in the Arab Spring, where women and men went to the town centers to protest and where they wanted to build a democracy.

And so what we want to help them do is be able to build the institutions that can support it. One of the things I visit is a wonderful women's shelter here, Genesis Women's Shelter. The director of that shelter, who's a long-time friend of ours, is a mentor for one of the women. And those are the kinds of civil institutions that they can go home and build, that were built, you know, by just citizens. They're not government, but citizen built.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk a little bit about politics back here at home. I had a good time last night with President Bush and to you, talking about your lives after the White House. President Bush was showing me on his iPhone his paintings.

BUSH: He's really proud of his paintings.

CAMEROTA: He's very proud. And they're very good --

BUSH: They are pretty good.

CAMEROTA: -- by the way. So how do you feel about your brother-in- law Jeb possibly going back into the White House?

BUSH: Well, I think it would be great. Obviously, we are huge Jeb supporters. He's our brother and we love him. I think he would be terrific. You know, it's interesting to watch. We're watching only from the sidelines, but fun and interesting to see him do it.

CAMEROTA: Has President Bush given him some advice about this process?

BUSH: Not really. No. I mean, Jeb hadn't come to him and asked him for it. Jeb, believe me -- when both your father and your brother have been president, you've watched from the sidelines for sure. And so he knows a lot. He's been a great governor of Florida and it'll be interesting to see.

CAMEROTA: What about Jeb's wife, Columba?

BUSH: Columba.

CAMEROTA: Columba. What advice would you give Columba about being in the spotlight?

BUSH: Well, I did give Columba advice. I told her she ought to get a really good speech and give it. She can give a speech in English and Spanish. I think that's a huge advantage for her. I think it can be a huge asset for the Republican Party to reach out to Hispanics in our country. And she'll be great. She's shy, but I think she'll be a really wonderful asset to Jeb.

CAMEROTA: I've read she doesn't love the spotlight?

BUSH: She doesn't like the spotlight particularly, but I'll have to say I didn't either. I got used to it.

CAMEROTA: You did, very well. Given your championing of women and of having female role models, which would you rather see -- your brother- in-law Jeb in the White House or the first woman in the White House?

BUSH: Well, of course, in this case, my brother-in-law Jeb in the White House, but I do look forward to the day that we have a woman in the White House. I'm very interested in the role of the First Gentleman.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: That will be interesting. So you just are not ready for it in 2016?

BUSH: That's right. I have a candidate already that I'm supporting.

CAMEROTA: I understand. And when do you think that candidate may announce?

BUSH: I have no earthly idea. Don't ask me any insight on the Jeb Bush campaign. I don't know.

CAMEROTA: And so what's next for you and President Bush?

BUSH: Well, we continue to do our work here. You saw last night, our women's fellowship that we had from Tunisia, but we have many other things. We've launched Pink Ribbon Red Ribbon, which is our global health initiative, building on the AIDS platform that George started -- launched in 2003, PEPFAR. We partner with the U.S. State Department for that because we're using the PEPFAR platform, and then we're partnering with the drug companies that give the vaccine for human papillomavirus, which is the cause of cervical cancer. Cervical cancer is the leading cause of cancer death among African women and cervical lesions are very easy to treat when they're discovered early.

So that's our global health initiative. We've launched in five African countries with Pink Ribbon Red Ribbon. We have lots of other terrific things. We have a lot of domestic programs as well. U.S. education -- we have a Middle School Matters program to really try to direct attention to middle school, which is really the last chance kids have to catch up before they go to high school so they can do their high school work.

CAMEROTA: So education is important to you here, at home --

BUSH: It's always been important.

CAMEROTA: -- and abroad.

BUSH: That's right.

CAMEROTA: Well, it's been really fascinating to watch all the work you all are doing here at the Bush Center.

BUSH: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for sharing it with us and for being on NEW DAY. Mrs. Bush, it's been great to have you.

BUSH: Thanks so much.

CAMEROTA: Our pleasure.

Back to you.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Alisyn, great conversation. I love the setting. I love the content. Amazing.

We have breaking news for you. New jobs report. February's numbers are coming and they are higher than expected. We're going to give you that information right after the break and we're also going to tell you about the next episode of "Finding Jesus." an eye-opening look at the impact of John the Baptist. So come on back. Happy Friday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Time now for CNN Money now. Breaking news for you. The February jobs report is out. That's why we play the banner there.

Christine, tell us. You've got the numbers.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's strong. You hit that yellow bar right there. It's strong. This is what happened, 295,000 net new jobs. Look at the strength of the end of the year continuing into the beginning of this year. These are the kinds of numbers you want to see. This is more than making up for new entrants into the workforce and people coming out of college. So that's a good number here.

The unemployment rate really critical here. The unemployment rate is now the lowest since May 2008, Chris. Hit that red button right there; it will show you how much. A 5.5 percent. That is a good number. That's what you want to see.

And when you look over all the entire recovery, this has been steadily, steadily recovering, the jobless rate here. Look at how bad this was in 2010. 10 percent unemployment. Now down to 5.5 percent. I actually predict you're going to see the unemployment rate go up as more people start to come back into the labor market because they have seen these good numbers. Wages, flat.

CUOMO: That's the headline behind the numbers.

RAOMSN: Headline behind the numbers. I haven't seen wages get strong yet but there's a lot of expectation that could happen this year. With job numbers like these, employers have to pay people more money.

CUOMO: Christine Romans, thank you very much.

There's the headline for you, Mick.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much to the both of you. There is a lot of evidence that the more books you have in your home, the better your child will do in school. But in too many homes, there simply aren't enough books. Today's CNN Heroes recognizes a 14-year-old girl who's getting books into the hands of kids who need them the most. Meet Maria Keller.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARIA KELLER, CNN HERO: I've always loved to read. It kind of takes you to a different place. My mom told me when I was 8 that some kids don't have books and that shocked me because everybody should have the option to read. So I started by just doing a small book drive, and then told my parents that I wanted to collect and distribute 1 million books to kids in need by the time I turn 18.

So welcome to the Reading Warehouse. I was 13 when I reached my goal. We've given books to about 16 countries and 40 states. All the pink squares. My new goal is to distribute books to every state in the U.S. and every country in the world. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have about 1280 students, a large homeless and highly mobile population. They're in great need.

UNIDENTFIEID FEMALE: When Maria Keller came to my school, I was so excited. And she just gave us books for free and it was amazing.

KELLER: Literacy is so important in education. I want kids to have a better life. I know that reading can do that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: They're not just the future kids, they are the present. Why do you do this to me with these heroes where every one I want to win?

PEREIRA: I know.

CUOMO: You're doing it to me again.

PEREIRA: It's kind of a problem. That's the great thing about Heroes.

CUOMO: So, how about this. John the Baptist, we've heard so much about his relationship to Jesus, but what is the truth of it? That is the substance of the second installment of the all-popular CNN series "FINDING JESUS". We'll give you a little inside scoop coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. So this Sunday's episode of CNN's original new series, "FINDING JESUS", takes a look at the fascinating figure of John the Baptist. Now, he helped inspire the ministry of Jesus. Want a look? Of course you do. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the baptism of Jesus by John is a crucial part of the story. It tells us, if nothing else, that Jesus absolutely endorsed what John was doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I, myself, came baptizing with water for this reason, and He might be revealed to Israel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it means that he endorsed John's message, that God's people did need to repent. They did need to receive forgiveness for their sins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. Joining us now to discuss this is Michael Peppard, theology professor at Fordham University, and Candida Moss, professor at the University of Notre Dame. Both are featured in this week's episode of "FINDING JESUS". Very cool to have you here on NEW DAY.

Let me just flip what we just heard there from the expert in the piece. He says that Jesus clearly endorsed what John the Baptist was doing. But, for me, the fascination has always been the opposite, Professor, that John the Baptist seems to be, at least in the Bible's reckoning, really the first -- other than Mary and Joseph, I suppose -- to recognize Jesus for what he was.

MICHAEL PEPPARD, THEOLOGY PROFESSOR, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: That's right. So in Jewish history, John the Baptist is known as innovating this one-time baptism of repentance, for forgiveness of sins, and he's known as a teacher of virtue, even in non-Christian sources about John the Baptist. But in Christian tradition, he's usually thought of as the forerunner of the Messiah, the one who points him out, the one that passes on some of his spiritual gifts to Jesus and launches him on his public ministry.

CUOMO: What does that mean to you, Professor, as well, when you think of, well, why was John the Baptist invested with this insight into who Jesus was? And did that coincide with Jesus' own recognition? How did that dynamic play?

CANDIDA MOSS, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME: Yes, I think one of the things that people don't really know about John the Baptist is that, in our earliest versions of the Jesus story, John the Baptist begins Jesus' ministry. So before Jesus met John the Baptist, he wasn't preaching. He wasn't teaching. It was meeting John the Baptist and getting baptized that started the whole thing off. If he hadn't met John the Baptist and been baptized in the River Jordan, maybe there would have been no ministry.

CUOMO: Look, some of these people watch because it's historical fascination; others are believers and this is their faith. But either way, the thought, the analysis why things were positioned the way they were in the faith, John the Baptist, if anything, underrated. Fair assessment?

PEPPARD: I think it's a fair assessment. One of the questions is, in his own lifetime, if you compared John and Jesus, who was more successful in their own lifetime? Whereas in Jesus' life, at the cross, you have very few disciples there with him, right? Women and one man, according to the gospels. John the Baptist innovated this, as I said, one-time conversion, this ritual. He was well regarded in Josephus, a historical source but not a Christian source, and certainly gathered many, many followers. Enough that he was a threat to Herod.

CUOMO: And yet he did not go follow Jesus after the fact, which is very interesting. Right? Because he recognizes him for what he is. He comes up with this baptism as a way really of initiating the rite. But then doesn't continue with Jesus, just he keeps eating his wild honey and locusts out there in the wild. What is this symbolic -- the symbolism of all that?

MOSS: I think when we hear that detail, and it's something people overlook when they read the New Testament, John the Baptist doesn't follow Jesus. And his followers don't latch onto the Jesus movement. And this seems to suggest that John the Baptist is doing his own thing. He's not as sold on Jesus as we tend to think that he was. He still thought his mission was important. He still had his own sort of apocalyptic mission to the world to fulfill.

CUOMO: And so what does that mean? If you're someone who subscribes to the faith, why would he keep doing what he was doing instead of going with Jesus if he recognized him as the Messiah? What do we take from that?

PEPPARD: Well, there's tension in the New Testament gospels themselves about this authoritative relationship. Who has the spiritual power here in this John the Baptist-Jesus relationship? And we see it in our earliest gospel, the Gospel of Mark, where it says that after John was arrested is when Jesus begins his public ministry. And this is one little line, but I think hidden underneath that, there is a whole -- a whole relationship that we don't have full access to, which is why we're still trying to explore it.

CUOMO: How much faith, excuse the pun, do you put in the potential lineage between Mary, Jesus's mother, obviously, and Elizabeth, John the Baptist's mother, as relatives? Which would have made John the Baptist and Jesus related? Is there anything to that?

MOSS: Well, the first thing I would say is it's only in one of our gospels; it's only in the Gospel of Luke and it's not in our earliest sources. I think what we see here is the evangelist Luke trying to smooth over the tensions Dr. Peppard was just trying to talk about, trying to bring Jesus and John, who were probably religious competitors, into a closer relationship.

CUOMO: I'm getting spun by Luke in the Bible? Is that what you're telling me?

Professors, thank you so much. And congratulations on being involved in this series. It's a very cool thing to do. And there's so much to know about such a pivotal figure. Very fascinating. Can't wait to see it all this weekend.

All right, a lot of news this morning so let's get you to the "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello. That will begin right at the top of the hour. Just a quick break before. Stay with us.

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