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Budget Battle on Capitol Hill; Interview with Rep. Tom Cole; Diet Soda Bad News; Delving into the Robert Durst Story. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 18, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Repealing Obamacare and reallocating money from programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps. Joining us now is Republican Congressman Tom Cole from Oklahoma.

[08:30:00] He is a member of the House Budget Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

REP. TOM COLE (R-OK), BUDGET COMMITTEE: John, thank you.

BERMAN: One of the interesting debates right now happening in Washington, and much of it is within the Republican Party, is between the so-called defense hawks and the so-called deficit hawks. People who want a strong defense right now are calling for an increase in defense spending. A lot of Republicans on Capitol Hill are and the White House is, too. This new Republican budget, however, says, no, no, no, we're not increasing defense spending even though the overall military spending will go up.

Let me throw up a graphic here which explains what's going on right now. The White House, on the right there, is calling for an increase in defense spending to $561 billion along with $51 billion for what's called the emergency fund. Now the house GOP is saying, no, no, we're not going to increase defense spending but we're going to put $90 billion into the emergency fund so we'll have more spending on military. Isn't this the kind of gimmickry that House Republicans have fought against for years?

COLE: No, not at all. It's actually a flexibility. Look, war is a very difficult thing to calculate the exact expenses on and we want to provide maximum flexibility. If you actually look at total military spending over 10 years, we do almost $400 billion more than the president. And this year, coming up, we're actually just about at the same point. We propose about $613 billion in total military spending. The president, about $612 billion. Now, we get there in different ways, but I would expect that given the different priorities the two parties have.

BERMAN: You get there with the use of the emergency fund, which even Republicans like Senator John McCain say a little bit sketchy to do that. Raul Labrador says a little bit sketchy to do that. And earlier today here on NEW DAY, White House Political Director David Simas says, you know, a little sketchy to do that. Let's listen to what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID SIMAS, WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF POLITICAL STRATEGY: That now is the time to make sure that we're making the investments in education, job training and manufacturing, as well as making sure that our men and women are adequately prepared for any contingency that arises. We can't resort to these gimmicks and loopholes which unfortunately using Republicans' own words is what they did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: He has called it gimmicks and loopholes once again.

COLE: Well, I --

BERMAN: Congressman Cole, you say it in your own press release, you compare this to what every household has to do when it balances its own budget. If I'm going to increase my food budget, you know, by saying, you know, I'm taking it from the garage budget but I'm not really taking it from the garage budget, how is that not a gimmick?

COLE: Well, it's not a gimmick at all. First of all, for the White House to talk about gimmicks when they propose tax increases that there's no way they can get Democrats to vote for, let alone get through a Republicans Congress is just rich beyond believe.

But in terms of looking at our budget, again, you know, we want to provide maximum flexibility. That's what the overseas contingency operation fund does. It's not an emergency fund, it's what actually finances, for instance, military operations in Afghanistan, military operations against ISIL in Iraq and throughout the Middle East.

So it's a real fund. The expenditures are real. If we don't use it all -- we don't have to use it, but it also provides the military with the flexibility it needs for training and equipment. So, again, we just have a different point of view of how to get there, but the spending levels are essentially the same.

BERMAN: This budget calls for the full repeal of Obamacare. You confident that the president would sign that?

COLE: No, I don't think so, but he doesn't have to sign the budget. The budget's a negotiating document. The president's issued one. It doesn't have to pass Congress. We're issuing one. I suspect our Senate counterparts will issue one. Then we'll negotiate and work the different appropriations bills and law through.

Look, we've been able to change Obamacare. People forget that. About eight times we've actually gotten the president to sign laws that have lowered the costs about $62 billion. But would I expect the full repeal? No. But would I expect Republicans to back off from that? No. And that's been our position consistently throughout the debate. I certainly wouldn't abandon a negotiation up front.

BERMAN: You're counting the savings in the repeal of Obamacare that you're calling for, but you don't count the reduction in revenue that certain taxes associated with Obamacare provide. Is that also not a little bit of gimmickry?

COLE: No, it's really not. Look, we've -- we arrive at our numbers the way we arrive at our numbers. And this is -- these are taxes that are on the books that are unlikely to be repealed in any event. As you point out, you have to have a presidential signature to get it done. So to say revenue is going to automatically disappear when you're not sure you can get it through, I think is probably not the wise thing to do.

But, look, I would just tell everybody to sort of step back and remember a budget, whether it's produced by the president, the Republicans in the House or the Republicans in the Senate is not law. It's where you begin. It's an aspirational document. It lays out your vision, where you would take the country if you could, and it's where you begin your negotiation from. But do I expect that we'll win every single battle? No. I expect we'll have to compromise. We've done that for four years now. We've lowered the deficit from 1.4 trillion to under 500 billion. So we've got a pretty good record. And we've passed our budget for four in a row. We hope the Senate can do the same this year and we'll see where the president ends up.

[08:35:09] BERMAN: I think we all appreciate your willingness to have these discussions, congressmen. It's important to have that on Capitol Hill. And I think we envy your degree of flexibility that you provide yourself there.

Can I ask you something about a story that's happening on Capitol Hill right now?

COLE: Sure.

BERMAN: Aaron Schock, congressman from Illinois, resigning following a series of allegations about money being spent by his congressional office, also from his campaign. You know, it's a money issue right here. What's your reaction to his resignation?

COLE: Well, you know, first of all, I know Aaron. I think highly of him. He's been a very effective member up here. I like him. I'm very sad that he's been overtaken by this situation. I don't have any information beyond what's in the press about the ins and outs of the financial issues. But, no, it's just a -- it's a human tragedy and he's a talented, good guy. He's a young guy. I hope he works his way through it and comes back.

BERMAN: What's your message to members of Congress coming in on both sides of the aisle here? I mean, you know, no party has a monopoly on bad decisions here. What do you say to a congressman to keep him to walk the straight line?

COLE: Well, you know, frankly, you're under scrutiny all the time. You accept the public trust when you hold these offices and you ought to hold yourself to the highest standards. And, frankly, if you don't, it tends to catch up with you in some ways. In this case, you know, maybe -- you know, again, Aaron's a very young guy and I'm sure he's learning some really hard lessons right now. My heart goes out to him. But you just simply can't afford to live beyond your means and, frankly, the public purse is something that you need to guard and take care of. You're being entrusted by taxpayers with it, so you've got to set an example, frankly, not taking advantage.

BERMAN: Congressman Tom Cole, great to have you with us. Really appreciate it, sir.

COLE: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Alisyn.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, diet soda adding inches to your waistline, John? Well, isn't it supposed to do the opposite? We're going to break down a new study with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:57] BERMAN: Time now for the five things to know for your new day.

Number one, Japanese police investigating death threats against Caroline Kennedy. Authorities in Tokyo say threatening calls were made against Kennedy, who is the U.S. ambassador to Japan, and another American official there.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declaring victory in Israel's election. His chief rival has already offered congratulations even though official results will not be released until next week.

A former air man with the U.S. Air Force is facing charges that he tried to link up with ISIS. Authorities say Tairod Nathan Webster Pugh tried to enter Syria by way of Turkey in January but was stopped and returned to the United States.

Illinois Congressman Aaron Schock stepping down as his spending scandal grows. New allegations have surfaced that he benefitted from donor projects and received questionable mileage reimbursements.

Britain's Prince Charles and his wife Camila, the duchess of Cornwall, in Washington for a three-day visit to the United States. Today they will visit the Lincoln Memorial, also the MLK Memorial. Before leaving Washington, they're going to meet with President Obama.

For more on the five things to know, go to newdaycnn.com for the very latest.

Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, John, in today's "New Day New You," diet soda could be adding inches to your waistline. A new study suggests the drink is linked to increased belly fat. Here to break it all down, CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

All right, Dr. Gupta, what did this study find for us?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is going to make a lot of -- big splash, I think. PEREIRA: Yes.

GUPTA: A lot of people paying attention to diet sodas and saying, look, is this part of me getting healthier, losing weight. There have been studies in the past that have shown that people who drink diet soda actually tend to be heavier. Now why is that exactly? We don't know for sure. This particular study was a 10-year study. They looked at just under 1,000 people, followed them along, and found that, in fact, the same held up, that the people who drink the most diet soda tended to be heavier.

Could it be a psychological thing? Could it be that they eat more calories elsewhere --

PEREIRA: Oh, yes.

GUPTA: And then think, well, I'm drinking diet drinks, therefore those other calories are fine. It could be part of that. But this study also pointed to something else. As you mentioned, the idea of belly fat specifically. They looked at waist circumference. I want you to take a look at what they found here. People who did not drink any diet soda on the left versus people who drank the most on the right.

PEREIRA: Interesting.

GUPTA: A pretty significant increase in belly fat, the waist circumference, 3.8 inches on average for the people who drank the most diet soda.

Why would that be exactly? That's another part of this whole thing.

PEREIRA: Right.

GUPTA: But the waist circumference increasing is a new sort of finding.

PEREIRA: This -- a lot of people talk about these artificial sweeteners that are in soda. And if you're drinking that much soda, you're having that much artificial sweetener. Is there a correlation there and are they -- what is it about them that would increase belly fat?

GUPTA: Yes, it's a -- it's a great question and I think it's one of the questions that in nutrition hopefully we're going to have a good answer to. Where this study seemed to point is that while you're not getting calories obviously from these non-caloric sweeteners, could those non-caloric sweeteners, could those artificial sweeteners be changing the -- what's called the biome, the micro biome, the bacteria in your gut.

PEREIRA: Wow.

GUPTA: We all have bacteria in our gut.

PEREIRA: Ys. GUPTA: There's more bacteria in our gut than we realize. And by drinking these artificial sweeteners, does it change that normal bacterial flora and, as a result, make us more likely to gain belly fat.

PEREIRA: Interesting. Wow.

GUPTA: It could -- it could be that. Again, that's not been proven. There are a lot of people who still believe that, look, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie.

PEREIRA: Yes.

GUPTA: If you don't eat or drink calories, you're going to be better off.

PEREIRA: Right.

GUPTA: But this study seems to suggest something different.

PEREIRA: Well, and it goes to that point. Remember back in the day when we were growing up it used to be the debate about Coke versus Pepsi. Then it became diet versus regular. And now it's more like Coke or soda, rather, versus water. People are turning to other beverages because they real soda is just so bad for you. That is sort of the conventional wisdom, still, is it not, avoid soda altogether?

GUPTA: People used to point to cancer, for example, and say artificial or diet drinks could cause cancer. I think that's been pretty well debunked.

[08:45:00] There's been decades of data now. As bad as some of these chemicals sound in those drinks, there doesn't seem to be a correlation with cancer. But you're absolutely right. I think the push is, look, if you want to just get hydrated, then drinks like water, mineral water, flavored waters. If you need caffeine, drinks like tea, even coffee, a certain number of cups of coffee a day can provide a health benefit. So there has been, I think, a push towards these other types of drinks and away from soda.

PEREIRA: Well, it is always a challenge, what goes in and how much we exercise, all of that stuff. And that's why we're so glad we can talk to you about it and get some realistic knowledge about it. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, always a pleasure.

GUPTA: You've got it, Mick. Anytime.

PEREIRA: Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Michaela. Back to this incredible crime story. Robert Durst's Houston home raided overnight. But after 15 years, what evidence could be left? We'll give you an update on the case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PEREIRA: New developments in the Robert Durst case. Authorities raided the accused murderer's Houston home yesterday, leaving with two boxes.

CAMEROTA: Joining us is Michael Daly. He's a special correspondent with "The Daily Beast". Michael, thanks for being here. You've been covering this case. It is fascinating. We've been reporting this morning that police have raided Durst's home, but it's been 15 years since the crime for which they're looking for evidence.

[08:50:01] What are they still going to find?

MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE DAILIY BEAST": You never know. For all you know, there's some keepsake from something. This is not a guy who goes by a normal trajectory. He may have thought that, well, they haven't searched my home in 15 years, why not keep this? I think it's one of those things you just don't know about this guy.

PEREIRA: When you look at how things have played out, I find it very interesting to see sort of this confluence of entertainment and news. And in a different way than, say, Michael Jackson or Phil Spector or Robert Blake. This has taken on a very bizarre place in our society.

DALY: It's kind of unsettling. I don't know how you feel, it just -- there's something kind of almost unseemly about it. And it may be a total coincidence, the timing. But you got -- first off you look at the HBO thing, you get the kind of implicit assumption that, oh, this interviewed just happened. They don't put that that interview was three years ago. There's nothing on that screen that says that this was shot three years ago. And so you think that this thing just happened, and they found the bit, and all of this. But you find out it's three years after the interview, nine months ago they found that audio.

CAMEROTA: The audio where he says, "What have I done? I killed them all, of course."

DALY: Right.

CAMEROTA: So nine months ago the film makers had that, you say.

DALY: And then the Saturday before the series finale, he gets collared.

PEREIRA: Does that pass the smell test to you?

DALY: Well, the cops insist they had nothing to do with it. You could flip it around and argue that they were worried that that last episode was going to make him flee. You could say that.

CAMEROTA: That is what they say.

DALY: And that could be. But I mean, if you were a press agent, you were sitting down and saying, all right, what's the best way to get this thing really going? Well, we'd like to do it Saturday night so you have all the Sunday shows, and all the Sunday papers, we'll get everybody talking and everybody in the world will watch the thing. So maybe it was the ratings god kind of...

CAMEROTA: From covering this case, you believe that the most damning piece of evidence is not that audio where he says killed them all, of course; it's that envelope where the same handwriting and the same misspelling exists on the front of this envelope to Susan Berman, one from the killer telling police where to find her body and one from her good friend Robert Durst, and they are identical.

DALY: Yes, they are. Beyond the misspelling, I mean, just -- it's really startling.

CAMEROTA: That's what will be his undoing?

DALY: I would think so. You would have thought it would be his undoing back in Texas when he dismembered the guy, but the -- he's got the lawyer you want to go to if you cut a person up. So maybe this is also the lawyer you want to go to if you've got an envelope that would seem to put you in a life sentence.

CAMEROTA: Well, you make a good point because things in Los Angeles, where this case will be tried, don't always go as planned, particularly high profile celebrity cases. Look at O.J. Look at Robert Blake. Sometimes the unexpected happens.

DALY: You know, this is a guy who's got very skilled lawyers. If you take that recording, you figure the guy is gone, right? Well, let's say they convince one juror that he actually knew the thing was being recorded and he's kind of a weird guy and he was playing with these people because he resented the way they confronted him. Then let's say that, well, the killer saw that envelope in her papers and decided, oh, I'll copy that exactly and that will incriminate. I mean, there's a lot of things they could say. And I don't think they're going to fly but there are a lot of things they could say.

PEREIRA: But then you add to it so many years, right? The 15 year timeline plus, perhaps, and then you look at the various crime scenes in various states and locations and cities. Do you look at the investigation and sort of say, look, if somebody had done their job differently or better or in another way, maybe lives would have been saved along the way?

DALY: Well, you have to think that. To me, the really critical point was that when the detectives were canvassing her apartment building --

CAMEROTA: Susan Durst.

DALY: -- after her disappearance. No, I'm sorry, Kathie Durst.

CAMEROTA: Kathie Durst, his first wife.

DALY: Way back then, right? You've got a detective. This is Manhattan. He goes up to Riverside Drive, he asks the door man, did you see her come in? Detective then writes that the door man saw her, right? And because of that, the cops up in Westchester, it's not their case because she didn't disappear from there, according to what they're thinking. And you've got the Manhattan people looking, but that's not where she disappeared from really. Then Durst hired a very good private detective, a guy named Ed Reilly (ph) who's like this master detective. He went and talked to the doorman and the doorman said, I never saw them.

CAMEROTA: So that one doorman was the key, his information.

DALY: So that moment, I mean, that moment, if that -- if the cops had put in theirDD-5, which is their report, that the doorman said he never saw her, he's the guy who operates the elevator. So if he didn't see her, she was not there that night, which means she never made it to Manhattan. Which means they would have been looking in Westchester and maybe they would've gone to that house and found something.

PEREIRA: A lot of maybes.

CAMEROTA: Michael Daly, thanks so much for sharing your reporting with us. Nice to see you. John?

BERMAN: All right, an extraordinary act of kindness gets an extraordinary reward.

[08:55:02] It is not just the Good Stuff, it is the better stuff, and it's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Time now not just for the Good Stuff but the better stuff.

PEREIRA: Ooh, I like that.

BERMAN: We told you about the boys basketball team who walked off the court during a game and defended their cheerleader, Desiree, when they heard someone in the stands making fun of her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's like family and there's probably no other person that we would rather be more happy doing it for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Attaboy. I love hearing those kids.

BERMAN: That's great. It gets better. For their extraordinary act of on-the-court kindness, the team was honored by the city council, who called the boys heroes and gave them medals. The biggest honor comes from Desiree herself. What did she think of this team?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESIREE ANDREWS, DEFENDED BY ENTIRE BOYS BASKETBALL TEAM: I think they're sweet, they're kind. They're awesome and amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Yes, they are all of that, honey. They sure are.

BERMAN: They are all of that. Kindness, decency goes a long, long way.

PEREIRA: Standing for one another. Isn't that a good thing?

BERMAN: Love that.

CAMEROTA: That is so great. I love those boys. And Desiree too.

All right, thanks so much. Time for "NEWSROOM" for Brianna Keilar in for Carol Costello.

[09:00:03] Good morning.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. What a sweet story. I love that, you guys.

All right, you guys have a wonderful day. "NEWSROOM" starts now.