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Search Resumes at French Alps Crash Site; Town Mayor: 'Darkest Day in Our City'; Victims from More than a Dozen Countries; Israel Denies Spying on Iran Talks. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 25, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: ... distress call from the cockpit.

[07:00:02] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: One hundred and fifty souls on board, all presumed dead. Recovery teams are in the air now, looking for victims and wreckage across hundreds of yards of very, very rugged terrain. This disaster has impacted families from more than half a dozen nations. So CNN is out there covering it like only we can for the crash of Flight 9525.

We're going to start with senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He is near the crash site in the French Alps. What is the latest?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, the latest is there's a criminal investigation team on site, because there were deaths involved in this accident. There is an air accident investigation team on site, as well. You can really hear the helicopters coming in here as part of this recovery effort, flying over my head here.

But what we're being told by the interior ministry, just to recap that, with the helicopter passing right overhead, what we're being told by the interior ministry spokesman here is that the priority is to recover today the bodies of the victims.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): This morning, thousands of feet up in the French Alps, recovery of the obliterated Germanwings Flight 9525 continues. The crash site, a picture of horror, says Germany's foreign minister. Wreckage from the plane strewn across nearly ten acres of rocky terrain. All 150 souls on board, including 16 school children and two babies, presumed lost.

A storm front pushing rain and possibly snow into the higher elevations today may hinder the recovery effort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That mountain weather often creates clouds, and it's a very challenging situation for the rescuers.

ROBERTSON: Around 10 a.m. local time Tuesday, the Airbus 320 was on the ground in Barcelona, its takeoff delayed by nearly 30 minutes. The company says it was air traffic control issues, not the plane itself that delayed departure. Once in the air around 10:45 a.m., headed towards Dusseldorf,

Germany, the plane reached a cruising altitude of 38,000 feet. Then, suddenly, Flight 9525 descended rapidly for eight minutes, the pilots making no distress signal.

DEBORAH HERSMAN, FORMER NTSB PRESIDENT: There was a controlled descent. It doesn't appear that it was a loss of control in flight.

We don't know if there was problems with their equipment, with their radios.

ROBERTSON: At 6,000 feet the Germanwings flight lost contact with French radar, crashing into the side of this mountain. The flight's cockpit voice recorder has been recovered but is damaged, according to the French interior ministry, who are now reconstructing the elements.

"It's devastating," says the CEO of Germanwings' parent company. "There are very small pieces of debris, which lets you deduce the energy with which the plane hit the ground."

Now some Germanwings crew are reluctant to fly, horrified after this mysterious crash, the airline forced to cancel a small number of flights.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: But here's the thing on the ground. Despite the effort and the focus and the priority being on the recovery of the victims, we've talked in the last couple of minutes here with the head of the coordination recovery effort, and what he tells me this morning is that medical teams have to go in and record the location of all the bodies. And then medical certificates have to be provided on site for the death of every -- of all the victims on board the aircraft.

So this coordination chief we talked to just a few minutes ago says he thinks it may be today that they're actually not able to bring any bodies off the mountain. Another helicopter flying over here. You really get the sense the pace of operations is picking up. But the reality on the ground: they may not be able to bring any bodies off the mountain today -- Chris.

CUOMO: The urgency is obvious, Nic, and obviously, what they're all trying to do there is give dignity to the people who lost their lives here, make sure everything is done the right way. We'll check back with you.

And there are details emerging overnight about the victims. Sixteen German high school students and two teachers returning from an exchange program are now feared gone. CNN's Diana Magnay is in Haltern, Germany, a small town dealing with near impossible tragedy -- Diana.

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You can see some of the friends of those students gathered behind me, paying their respects. This morning's assembly, the headmaster said, was an incredibly painful emotional affair. And there are psychologists here to look after those who are left. We've seen pictures that some of the students here have been drawing, where they've written, "Flight 9525, why? Why you? I hope that where you are now, you are happy. Rest in peace."

The headmaster of this school in a press conference just now said that a week ago he had sent 16 happy students away. And now there was this tragedy; and that he'd kept hoping right until the last minute, that those students on board that plane, that they weren't his students.

[07:05:05] But yes, this really is at the epicenter of the tragedy here in Germany, where 67 lives were lost in that crash, 16 of them students at this school and two teachers also -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Diana, thanks so much. The grief is immeasurable. Thank you so much.

CNN's Karl Penhaul, meanwhile, is just outside Barcelona, a country that is mourning the loss of at least 20 of their own citizens. But the 16 exchange students from Germany that were on the flight had been attending classes just outside of Barcelona.

Karl, these parents imagining to send their kids off to have worldly experiences, only to have this happen.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Michaela. And those kind of language and cultural exchange programs are so common in Europe. And this, at this school, that is where the 16 German students had spent the last week making new friends, bonding with host families. All that, of course, now over.

But it isn't just about those students, of course. On that flight, a passenger list that really spans nations and spans generations, as well. Babies have died. We know that one of the babies was the child of a German opera singer, who was returning to Germany after a season singing at Barcelona's opera house.

And among the information that we already have, I've counted at least nine different nationalities that were on board. We know, in addition to the Spaniards and the Germans, we know that from at least three Latin American countries, passengers were on board. We know Japanese, Australians, and Britons were also on board.

Some people, of course, would have been vacationers, because Barcelona is a very cosmopolitan holiday tourist center. And -- but it's also a commercial hub, and so we know that some of the passengers on board that flight were probably Spanish businessmen, heading to German trade fairs, as well. So certainly, many different countries, many different age groups now trying to come to grips with what happened.

Back to you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: It's all so sad, Karl. As you were speaking, we were just showing moments of silence that are happening right now in France and Spain about all this.

We want to bring in now, CNN aviation correspondent and host of "Quest Means Business," Richard Quest.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Good morning. And the president of the National Safety Council and former NTSB chairwoman, Deborah Hersman.

It's great to have both of you and your expertise here.

I know that you've been looking, Richard, at the data that's available so far, and you see the descent a little differently?

QUEST: Yes. I mean, it matters not in the great scheme of things, but the descent is probably nearer to ten minutes than to eight minutes. And if you look at the rate of descent, it's not this sort of very even 3,000 feet a minute. Sometimes it goes into 1,500. Then it goes up to nearly 4,000.

So I think perhaps what we're seeing is that the descent was more erratic than first thought. It was slightly longer, but it doesn't avoid the core issue, that we don't know what happened. This plane took off, got to its cruise altitude, stayed there for a couple of minutes, and then inexplicably began this ten-minute or so descent to the ground.

CAMEROTA: And Deb, we've heard just unusual this is, for a crash at mid-flight. When you look at everything that's come out in the past 24 hours, what stands out to you?

HERSMAN: You know, I think the thing that really stands out is that we've got experienced pilots. We've got reliable aircraft and, inexplicably, we've got a situation where they're descending towards mountainous terrain. That's -- that's really not where anybody wants to be in aviation.

And I think in these early hours, we're really grasping at any kernel of information that's available. Once the investigative team are able to provide specific details, we're going to have a lot better picture of what was going on in that cockpit and why they weren't communicating when they were being held by air traffic control for so long.

CAMEROTA: Richard, something else peculiar happened yesterday, or maybe it's not peculiar. You tell us. Germanwings, the airlines to which this happened, had to cancel several of its flights, because flight crews were not comfortable getting on board.

QUEST: No, we don't know that. We don't know that. We don't know the reason why. Some have portrayed this as they had safety concerns. But the way I read the statement last night from Germanwings, it was they were not comfortable flying. Or they were emotional.

CAMEROTA: They were too emotional. QUEST: They were too emotional.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

QUEST: So there's a big difference. One is suggesting -- some are suggesting that they had worries about the airline and the planes. The other is, "I really don't feel like flying today. I've just lost a colleague. I've just lost a friend."

CAMEROTA: Great point of clarification. But even that, even other flight crews being too emotional. Aren't flight crews trained to get past those things?

QUEST: Not on that soil. I mean, if your best friend or a colleague you flew with frequently. I mean, Germanwings is part of Lufthansa. But it's a very close-knit part of Lufthansa. It's a -- it's the budget airline, a point-to-point division of it.

[07:10:05] So I was not as -- unless you have a mass sort of "We don't think it's safe," and there's no evidence of that. None. Zero. Before anybody goes off to the races with that.

CAMEROTA: I'm glad you're making that point. In fact, we do have a statement from the pilots' union that says just what you're saying. Let me read it. "It has nothing to do with safety."

QUEST: Right.

CAMEROTA: "The pilots have friends and colleagues who have died. That is such a heavy emotional burden that it is better not to get into the cockpit."

Do you see it the same way, Deb?

HERSMAN: Absolutely. You always want crews to be at their best when they are in the cockpit, responsible for other passengers. If for any reason they need to mark off or not fly, whether they are fatigued, whether they're grieving, it is in the best interests of every single passenger who's flying on that airline for that company to have a policy that allows them to do so.

CAMEROTA: Investigators have not ruled out terrorism. They say this morning, though the French minister had said it is very likely that it is not terrorism. Can they assess that this early in the investigation?

QUEST: I think they probably can. But the -- and Deborah has much more experience of having to weigh those decisions. But -- but if the inexplicable nature of what happened that leads you to say, in this case -- normally I'm the first one to take something off the table, but I'm also now saying, leave everything on the table.

CAMEROTA: Deb, do you agree? Can -- are they leaving everything on the table at this point? And should they?

HERSMAN: You know, I would say that it's traditional in investigations to really assume that something is an accident until it is determined that there was criminal intent or that you have evidence that shows otherwise. And so, the general response is to consider it an accident.

But I do think they're going to have to look very closely at exactly what happened. Any sign that there was something amiss or that there was some criminal activity, you can bet they will turn it into an investigation that's fully focused on that.

CAMEROTA: And Deb, one more question for you. They have found the cockpit voice recorder, but it's damaged. How quickly might they be able to get usable information off of that?

HERSMAN: So it's no surprise to hear that the cockpit voice recorder is damaged. Because of the type of crash that occurred and the damage that occurred to the rest of the aircraft, you probably expect that outside housing or the casing that holds the recorder to be damaged.

What's most critical is that the information that's inside, that data is protected. These are crash-worthy, fireproof boxes that are designed to withstand the forces; and so it will be important for them to pull that information off, if it's usable. And they should be able to do that within hours, if the data and that solid-state recorder is not damaged.

CAMEROTA: That's interesting. It would be so helpful to have answers within hours. Richard Quest, Deb Hersman, thanks so much for coming on.

Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. President Obama is not commenting on the "Wall Street Journal" report that Israel spied on the Iran nuclear talks. There does seem to be more White House reaction, however, to what Israel may have done with that information. Lobbying Congress in an effort to destroy the deal.

One thing that's for sure: those nuclear talks with Iran are still going on right now and coming down to the wire. The deadline to reach a framework for an agreement just a week away.

PEREIRA: Former Democratic Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. will be released from prison tomorrow and will serve the final months of his sentence in a D.C. -- D.C. halfway house. That according to a former House colleague.

You'll recall last year Jackson pleaded guilty to using campaign money to go on a $750,000 spending spree. Jackson's wife also pleaded guilty to filing false tax returns over six years. She is expected to begin a one-year sentence in prison a month after Jackson completes his.

CAMEROTA: Here's some incredible video to show you. Intense flooding forcing people to evacuate a tourist bus that was sitting on a highway in Brazil. Oh... CUOMO: Whoa.

CAMEROTA: ... my gosh. OK. Moments after they evacuated, you can see a huge sinkhole swallow the -- oh, my gosh.

PEREIRA: And then it goes down the river.

CAMEROTA: Swallow the entire bus, and then it gets swept away by a raging river underneath. No one was inside that bus, we're happy to report, and no injuries.

PEREIRA: I have never seen anything like that. We've had all sorts of sinkholes, not that big, out in L.A., but I've never seen anything like that.

CUOMO: I think the scientific term for that would be swallowed and then spit out.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREIRA: I think there's maybe a few expletives.

CUOMO: Look at the power of the water. We all know how big a bus like that is, how heavy it is, right? Like nothing, just poof.

PEREIRA: The power to swoop it away like it's a shoe.

CAMEROTA: Wow! That is incredible video. We delivered on the incredible video promise right there.

PEREIRA: Thank goodness nobody was on board.

CAMEROTA: All right. Meanwhile, fallout from that report that Israel spied on the Iran nuclear talks and shared information with members of Congress. We'll assess the damage to the strained relationship between the once rock-solid allies.

[07:15:00] CUOMO: Senator Ted Cruz compliments Obamacare and says he may sign up for it. Ooh, clean up that coffee you just spit out. And John King will break it down. What just happened to the Cruz missile, on "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Damage control in Washington and Tel Aviv after the "Wall Street Journal" reported Israel spied on nuclear talks with Iran and then fed what they found to congress. Why? To try to kill the deal. So what does this do to an already-strained U.S.-Israel relationship?

Let's discuss with two men who have valuable insight: Aaron David Miller, he has advised six secretaries of state on the Arab-Israeli peace process. And we have Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell.

It's good to have both of you here, gentlemen. Sometimes the spin gets dizzying, so let's take one step back. Is this about a spy scandal, the way it has been sold through the media so far, Colonel?

COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO SECRETARY COLIN POWELL: I don't think so. I think we, both Israel and the United States, as a matter of fact, most of our allies and friends, of course, our enemies in the world, on occasion gather intelligence about one another. I don't see this as -- as what the media is making it, at least right now, as a big brouhaha. It's just what happens.

You know, I remember the brouhaha for us spying on the United Nations Security Council.

[07:20:01] CUOMO: That's not nice.

WILKERSON: It's not nice, but it might be the things you should be doing if you want to be appraised of what's happening in the world and be ahead of the game.

CUOMO: So it's not about the tactics. It's about the strategy. It's about why this was being done. So let me shift to you now, Aaron, about that aspect of this.

You note in a recent article, you know, there has been a White House problem with Israel in terms of saying they were against certain things that Israel had done but not following through. Do you believe that that's where they are right now with Israel? About what they say they want to do with Iran, versus meeting the obligations of being an ally to Israel?

AARON DAVID MILLER, EXPERT ON ARAB-ISRAELI PEACE PROCESS: You know, I think the administration's trapped. I think the president is very frustrated with Netanyahu's reelection. I think he's angry, as a consequence of what he perceives to be an Israeli intervention in American politics. The Iranian deal, arguably, for this president is extremely important. And his judgment is the Israelis have put it at risk.

But the reality, Chris, is that I think the basic problem here is that you really do need a degree of adult supervision on both sides of this relationship right now. I mean, Carter and Begin didn't get along, and yet they cooperated productively. Shamir and Bush 41 didn't get along, but they actually produced some things. And even Benjamin Netanyahu and Clinton, in Netanyahu's first term, some tension there, but there were two interim (ph) agreements between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Now, and for the last almost seven years, you've got dysfunction without production. And these two leaders have to make a decision. For the next 20 months, do they want meltdown -- because I guarantee you, that's what can happen -- or do they want dial down? Do they want to figure out a way to manage these expectations, manage the differences, and figure out a way, whether or not there's any productive result that can emerge? It's not going to be easy.

CUOMO: Well, not going to be easy. There's an understatement, because it seems like this is the worst chance. Settlements? Obama said no more settlements. We know how that turned out. You know, the two-state solution? We know what the prime minister had said before and after the election, where that is now. That's probably not going to happen.

So now we're with the deal with Iran. This seems to be the strongest point of pushback from Israel, and to be completely frank about it, Aaron, is the deal too important to the United States? Do you think that they're forcing this process?

MILLER: I mean, I think that the administration really is desperate for an agreement. I think no agreement has persuaded them that there's going to be a drift toward confrontation. At the coalition, on sanctions, will break up. The Iranians will accelerate their program.

The problem is -- and you're never going to be able to get around this, Chris. There are no good deals here. The fact is, the Iranians, five years from now, ten years from now, will be left not only having the right to enrich validated, but they're going to be left with a considerable nuclear infrastructure that could give them capacity in a time of their choosing, if they so chose, to weaponize.

So we're talking about buying time. A smaller, slower, more transparent, easily monitored Iranian nuclear program? Yes, it would be an advantage to preempting what could be a crisis in the next 20 months.

And I understand why Obama feels this way. The Israelis, however, sit in a much different position. And I think, to a degree, without surrendering American interests, we have to understand and respect that where you stand on issues has a good deal to do with where you sit. And Washington and Jerusalem are sitting, frankly, in very different places.

CUOMO: OK. So Colonel, let me ask you this. When you were working with General Powell, do you think, as secretary of state, that we would be in the position, with Powell, as we are right now with Kerry and the White House, with Iran? You think that they would be pushing for a deal like this?

WILKERSON: I think you'd probably have a whole different development, if Powell had been secretary of state. But I don't do hypotheticals like that. You should ask Powell that.

I usually agree with Aaron David on most of the things he said, but in this one, I do not.

CUOMO: Why?

WILKERSON: Because I think there are two alternatives. The alternatives are rather stark, and making them more complex than this starkness is really a disservice. They are war, on the one hand, or they are diplomacy on the other. And my position is, and I hope the position of the White House -- I think it is -- is that diplomacy is to be preferred to war.

And I happen to be very conversant with the details of this deal. I've been working on it for five years myself. And I'm convinced -- I'm not convinced we're going to get a deal -- but I'm convinced that, if this administration does get a deal, it's going to be one we can live with and that will prevent war and is going to provide as much scrutiny as is humanly possible to determine whether Iran cheats on it. And I'm for that.

[07:25:08] CUOMO: The reality, though, of when people say "no good deal," whether it's Aaron or a litany of others, it's that, well, they're still going to get the bomb. It's only about when. Up to this point, they've chosen not to make a bomb. But is that reality enough to say that any deal that allows for that possibility to continue to exist is a bad deal by definition?

WILKERSON: When the alternative is another war in Southwest Asia, costing 1 to 2 trillion dollars and lasting 10 years and at the end of which you'll look like Iraq only worse, I think the deal is worth pursuing. And I think that the disincentive for Iran to cheat will build over time, as they become a responsible member of not just the region but the global economic and financial community; they're able to sell their oil and so forth and so on. I think those disincentives are strong, and I think at the end of a 10 or 15-year period, you're going to see an entirely different relationship.

CUOMO: All right. Two different views on it. Aaron David Miller, thank you very much. Colonel Wilkerson, appreciate the perspective. Thank you.

WILKERSON: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. Hillary Clinton has a notoriously rocky relationship with the media. But it seems that she could be turning over a new leaf and being ready for a fresh start.

The question, though: isn't the media ready to follow? John King will take a look, "Inside Politics."

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