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New Day

Americans Aboard Plane; Nascar Driver Battles Health; Italy to Rule on Knox Conviction; Controversy Continues Around SeaWorld. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 25, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:55] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news for you. We have learned more about the victims aboard the doomed Flight 9525. We now know two Americans were on board. Let's get right to Fred Pleitgen. He is in Germany, where a majority of the victims are from.

Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of course, Michaela, that's the big breaking news right now that there were those two Americans on board that Germanwings flight as well. However, the airline also announced a breakdown of the nationalities as they have them so far. Right now they're saying that the majority on those on board were Germans, which shouldn't come as any surprise. They say 72 Germans on board.

Now, the airline say 35 people from Spain were on board. However, we've also just got in touch with the Spanish emergency rescue people and they tell us that 49 Spaniards were actually on board. So there is still a bit of a discrepancy there.

And back to Germanwings, and they say there was also one each from Great Britain, the Netherlands, Colombia, Mexico, Denmark, Japan, Belgium, Israel, as well as two each from Australia, Argentina, Iran, Venezuela and then, of course those two Americans as well.

So we are starting to get more information. We're starting to piece together a little better as to where those people were from. And, of course, we're seeing it's not only people from all over Europe, but indeed people from all over the world.

Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Fred, thanks for staying on it. We'll check back with you.

Now it's time for this week's "Human Factor." Nascar driver Brian Vickers is working to overcome health battles because he wants to stay on the track. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nascar driver Brian Vickers faced a red flag in 2010 over his health. He was diagnosed with deep vein thrombosis and a pulmonary embolism. This means blood clots have formed in his legs, his lungs and fingers. He was also diagnosed with a hole in his heart.

BRIAN VICKERS, NASCAR DRIVER: I was having some pains in my chest, like kind of trouble breathing. I largely ignored those signs and symptoms. You just think you're invincible. You know, it almost cost me my life.

GUPTA: Vickers was treated and went back to racing only to suffer a relapse with a blood clot in his right leg three years later. But his biggest obstacle came late last year when his body rejected the artificial patch used to repair his heart.

[08:35:02] VICKERS: Basically they were telling me that I had to go in for open heart surgery while they were prepping me for open heart surgery.

GUPTA: Just three months after surgery, Vickers returned to the track again.

VICKERS: Everyone has difficulties and challenges in their life. But, you know, when you're in the ICU and all the beds are full around you, I mean it's not like you can say, why me?

GUPTA: Vickers didn't take the checkered flag this time, but will keep chasing that championship, inspiring others to never give up.

VICKERS: Top 15, considering where we were at three months ago, is more than a victory I can ever ask for.

That's what we do while we're here and the legacy we leave and the memories we leave. What I focus on doing is leaving as much as I can behind in the time I have. And if it turns out I get 100 years, awesome. And if it -- if I get less, then, you know, that's life.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:39:54] PEREIRA: Italy's supreme court is expected to hand down a final ruling today in the case against Amanda Knox. If her murder conviction is upheld, Italy could ask for her back. What happens then? Let's bring in retired supervisory special FBI agent Steve Moore. He's in Los Angeles.

Good morning to you.

Nina Burleigh is national politics correspondent from "Newsweek" and author of "The Fatal Gift of Beauty."

So there's so many pieces and parts to this. Chris is here with me. I think we sort of have to talk with the legality, we have to start with that, do we not? CUOMO: Yes, it is a legal situation. I mean, Steve, you've been

following the case very carefully. Confirmation by the highest court of this now conviction two times over would be very usual, right? It's unusual for, at this stage, there to be a departure of the most recent decision. So what do you think happens today?

STEVE MOORE, RETIRED SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Well, I -- unfortunately, I'm afraid that what they're going to do is just go ahead and convict her again. I mean the fix is in. The juror has already said from the last case that she was pretty much told beforehand what the verdict was going to be. So I'd fall off my chair if they didn't convict her.

But right now they need -- Amanda actually needs a conviction from this court to go ahead and go to the European high court of human rights and get this thing thrown out.

PEREIRA: Nina, I'm really curious what you think this is about. Is it more about the evidence or is this more about a case of serious national pride?

MOORE: This hasn't been --

NINA BURLEIGH, NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT, "NEWSWEEK": I would say that it's more of a case of the magistrate's pride. The judiciary system in Italy is protecting itself as prosecutors and judges tend to do when they make mistakes in any country, but it's definitely what's happening here.

PEREIRA: So cover up to that point or more just --

BURLEIGH: Well, I -- you know, Italy has laws that affect journalists who criticize judges. And there have been lawsuits filed against the family, there have been lawsuits filed against journalists and that's why people don't -- journalists would not use words like "cover up." But certainly there was bias, there was -- there was national bias, there's legal bias here, there's gender bias going on. And there, yes, there are problems with the police work as well. Absolutely.

CUOMO: Well, but the problem is, and you know both Steve and Nina will disagree with this supposition, but there was also a lot of proof that was pointing right at Amanda Knox and her boyfriend from the beginning and neither of them helped their cause with anything that they did. And at the end of the day, every legal system, even Italy's, yes, which is certainly flawed compared to the U.S. system, is about people.

And, Steve, I know you're shaking your head. I know you don't like that supposition. But, the way they acted, the story they told definitely had holes in it that led to suspicion that led them down this road with prosecutors. Everybody's shaking their head, but, Steve, is that fair criticism or not?

MOORE: No, I don't think it's fair criticism. I don't think it's educated criticism. If you look directly at this case and every detail, you will understand what I did. I went to try and prove Amanda guilty. And what I got out of this is there's no way she's guilty. You can say -- not you but the courts can say anything they want about Amanda, and if everything they said is true then, yes, she's guilty. But nothing they've said about her is true. So based on what you've heard from the Italians, yes, I understand your statement. But what they're saying is a lie. And, by the way, I'm not a journalist. I'll use the word cover up.

PEREIRA: And, Nina, you agree with Steve?

BURLEIGH: Absolutely 100 percent, Chris. We --

CUOMO: You know the critics basic is large (INAUDIBLE).

BURLEIGH: I watched -- I watched the trial. We went through -- with a team we went through all of the documents. We looked at the interviews with witnesses before the arrest, after the arrest. The way that things changed after the arrest. Look, it was a pagan scapegoating ritual. That's what it looked like to me. I, like Steve, I went over there thinking I was going to write a book about an American girl who looked like a J. Crew model, who turned into Charlie Manson. After a month looking into it, all of those things that you're talking about, the so-called evidence is not in the record. The blood -- the bleached --

CUOMO: Right.

BURLEIGH: The Googling the bleach, the students standing outside the door with a mop and a bucket, none of that is in the record. And the prosecutor, who I interviewed repeatedly, wouldn't even confirm it, OK? So these things, these -- all of this circumstantial evidence has to do with this strange girl being seen on the scene the day of the murder. First person on the scene. That's who the police looked at.

CUOMO: How she was seen, this story, the actions, I mean it became very much about her.

BURLEIGH: It's all bias.

CUOMO: And, look, to Steve's point, criticism or not, certainly not uneducated. I followed that case. I covered that case. I would argue I put Amanda to the test over information the way nobody else has. And interestingly, we did ask her about what she would do in this. And this -- she is facing the biggest fear of her life because if she gets pushed here, Steve's right, she could go to the international court and get this thrown out. But if it doesn't happen, these two countries have an agreement for extradition and then her life will be more up in the air than it ever has been before.

PEREIRA: Well, and then --

CUOMO: So we're going to have to see what happens today.

PEREIRA: Absolutely. We'll be watching that. Count on CNN to continue covering that. Nina, Steve, our appreciation to both of you. Thanks.

Alisyn. [08:45:12:] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, guys. Controversy

continues to surround SeaWorld. After the release of that documentary and CNN film "BLACKFISH," now a former orca trainer is speaking out in a new book with explosive new claims. Were whales deprived of food to make them perform? There's much more. Stick around.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN HARGROVE, FORMER SENIOR ORCA TRAINER, SEAWORLD: My parents first brought me to a SeaWorld park when I was very young. From that point forward, I was hooked. It meant everything to me because, you know, I've never wanted anything more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was former SeaWorld trainer John Hargrove in the award- winning and provocative documentary "BLACKFISH." Hargrove was the senior orca trainer at SeaWorld until 2012 when he left after a decades long career with the company beginning in 1993. After leaving SeaWorld, Hargrove began speaking out. He's written a new memoir about his time there, "Beneath The Surface: Killer Whales, SeaWorld and the Truth Beyond BlackFish." John Hargrove joins us now. Good morning, John.

HARGROVE: Good morning. Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: It's nice to have you in the studio. From that clip, it sounds like SeaWorld was in your blood, it was in your DNA, it was all you wanted to do and you worked there for two decades.

HARGROVE: Right.

[08:50:00] CAMEROTA: When did you start to see things that bothered you?

HARGROVE: It was my identity from my whole childhood and I believed in that company and I was 100 percent loyalist to SeaWorld. First, I started seeing what would happen with the trainers, the exploitation of the trainers, seemingly untouchable star trainers who I wanted to become one day, but I was, you know, a very low level at that point and how quickly I would see them fall from grace if they challenged management. So they would be defamed. They would be moved to another area. A lot of trainers were nearly killed. They sued SeaWorld for negligence and they were gag ordered.

CAMEROTA: You mean they were nearly killed by the animals?

HARGROVE: That's right.

CAMEROTA: That never came out?

HARGROVE: You know, they kept that hidden as much as they could. So some of the aggressions that you see in "BLACKFISH," that just scratches the surface. We had so many more near fatalities with the whales. What they would do is as soon as those trainers would sue, they would very quickly force them into settlement and then they were gag ordered, which is exactly what SeaWorld wanted was a gag order so they could never speak about it.

CAMEROTA: In the book you also talk about that you didn't like how the animals were treated. Let me read a portion from your book about food deprivation.

You say, "SeaWorld says that its animals receive all of their food regardless of how they perform throughout the day. This is false. I know of wholes whose food base usually ranged from 180-250 pounds per day, being restricted to as little as 59 pounds of food because such a form of 'behavior modification' would sound barbarous to human audiences, the practice has been kept secret. It would not be their food was restricted. It would not be good for businesses to say that the stars of the show were not given food in order to make them perform. But it has happened. I have been part of inflicting the policy myself at the request of a supervisor."

What was going on? So they would punish the whales?

HARGROVE: Exactly. So there's only two acceptable reasons you should withhold food from an animal: one is medical and the second is if that animal just simply refuses to eat. You try multiple times and they won't eat, which is usually reflective of a medical condition. But when you withhold food, just because the animals are choosing not to cooperate or they're doing the incorrect behavioral -- you know, behavior you have asked for, you know, that's just poor training. That's poor management. Whenever those decisions were made, a manager had to approve it. It wasn't like a rogue trainer that just went off and said I'm going to cut this animal's base today. You had to pick up a phone, call a manager, and say, hey listen, they were poor behaviorally, can we grind their food? They would say yes or no.

CAMEROTA: SeaWorld, obviously, is not pleased with your book and revealing this. In fact, they take issue with many of the things that you say. Here is their rebuttal to your claims about food deprivation.

They say, "Our policy is simple: Killer whales receive an amount of food determined by our veterinarians based on their age, sex, breeding status, overall health and activity level. Any departure from that amount of food requires a veterinarian's approval."

HARGROVE: Right. It's so easy to explain those things away. For example, if you have a whale that's been performing poorly, not cooperating, and say their base was 250 pounds, you can very easily the next day say, I've dropped -- say it's Casaca -- I've dropped Casaca's base from 250 pounds to 180 pounds because she seems a little overweight. So reading between the lines, it's -- she's not cooperating the way we want her to cooperate so we're going to drop her food amount.

CAMEROTA: SeaWorld says that they don't believe your story and they even say that you yourself contradicted the story that you now tell in your memoir by this tweet that was sent out about a year ago, February 11, 2014. Here is your tweet. You say, "Any trainer that held back food from a whale was a poor trainer and using techniques not taught to us in the SeaWorld system." How do you explain that contradiction?

HARGROVE: Well, I don't believe it is a contradiction because it is exactly what I just explained how it is a poor trainer.

CAMEROTA: But that doesn't sound like you were blowing the whistle there. That sounds like you were defending the choice of all of the trainers.

HARGROVE: What I was defending was that as a trainer, as a good trainer, you should not be withholding food from whales for behavioral reasons. Like I said, if it's medical or if it's because the whales simply refuse to eat and you've tried multiple times, you've done all that you can do. And you know, I was fortunate enough that throughout my career I learned from some great trainers, but there are trainers in the system that are not very behaviorally strong and they don't follow that system. So you'll see them withhold food from whales just because they're frustrated, because the whales didn't give them a good show or, like I said, they weren't cooperating for whatever reason. Is it the SeaWorld policy to withhold food from animals? I would say no, but it's done and it's approved by management. So if it's approved by management, they're aware of it and they approve it, it's semantics.

[08:55:06] CAMEROTA: John Hargrove, you have all sorts of disclosures that you reveal in this new book, "Beneath The Surface." Thanks so much for coming on NEW DAY to talk about it.

HARGROVE: Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: Up next, The Good Stuff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Who sings this song?

PEREIRA: (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: Yes! Strong. Today's edition of The Good Stuff: Science! President Obama welcomed America's best and brightest to the White House science fair this week. One of them, though, two years ago, 16- year-old Kenneth Shinozuka, his grandfather has Alzheimer's, nearly dies because he wanders out of the house. Kenneth says, you know what, I'm going to invent something to help. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH SHINOZUKA, 16-YEAR-OLD BRONX HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: If I were the patient, the caregiver would place this pressure sensor onto the bottom of my foot. As soon as the patient steps onto the floor, an alert is triggered in the caregiver's smartphone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Stick it on the bottom of the foot. If the foot moves and alights on the floor, a sensor goes off, you can know if someone is moving around.

PEREIRA: That's going to help so many families.

CUOMO: Shinozuka is a genius, and hopefully he can commercialize it and not just help his grandfather but many other people.

[09:00:03] CAMEROTA: That's great. Thanks --

PEREIRA: On that note, let's go to "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEWSROOM": Hi, have a great day.

"NEWSROOM" starts now.