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New Theories On Cockpit Mystery; Bowe Bergdahl Charged With Desertion; Official: Descent Could Only Be Done Deliberately. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 26, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. We will get back to our breaking coverage on Flight 9525 in a moment, but first here's a look at your other headlines. Utter devastation in Oklahoma this morning after a pair of tornadoes ripped through the state.

At least one person was killed and 15 others injured in a trailer park near Tulsa. A tornado also touching down in Moore, leaving cars flipped and debris littering the streets. Schools in Tulsa and Moore forced to close today because of this devastation.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Just two years ago, they dealt with so much there.

Also Secretary of State John Kerry is in Switzerland this morning for the final round of nuclear negotiations with Iran. The talks is heading down to the wire, the deadline for an agreement on the framework of a deal just five days away.

So far, both sides reporting progress after the last round with some big gaps remaining. Now Britain's Foreign Secretary, Phillip Hammond is warning we could see a nuclear arms race in the Middle East if the negotiations fail although some have warned of the same path if they succeed.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Indiana's governor is set to sign into law a controversial measure that would effectively let businesses turn away gay and lesbian customers in the name of religious freedom. Proponents say the bill is meant to protect the rights of individuals to their religious beliefs.

But the critics call it proactively discriminatory towards the LGBT community. They are now are urging Governor Mike Pence to reconsider his stance and veto that legislation.

CAMEROTA: Now to the stunning new developments in the crash of Flight 9525. One of the pilots reportedly locked out of the cockpit and heard on the plane's voice recorder trying to break down the door to get back in. This was just moments before the plane went down in the French Alps. The story was first reported by "The New York Times." It opens countless theories about what might have happened. We are talking about this all morning long, how could the pilot have been locked out? Didn't he know the code? Did the code not let him back into the cockpit? So many questions this morning and we have lots of analysis.

CUOMO: Now first thing we need to do is confirm the reporting. All respect to "The New York Times," but there will be a presser that's coming up momentarily from a French prosecutor in Marseille, who has been kind of leading information for the media about what's going on. We're going to monitor that.

As soon as there's any relevant information it will be in French, but as soon as there's any relevant information about what happened and is heard on the cockpit recorder, we are going to bring it to you.

Because Alisyn, you know, that's the main thing. We have to know if it's true. If your starting point is flawed, then everything else is flawed.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. So we are looking forward to that press conference, which we'll bring to you live as soon as we have it. You can see we're moments away.

CUOMO: All right, so we know what the information is that's out there from the "New York Times" so if we're going to keep that as a starting point, let's figure out what questions it raises, which ones make sense and don't.

For that we have CNN aviation analyst, Miles O'Brien. So Miles, you're a journalist and a science reporter and an analyst. So we can combine you all in one like a tasty cake of information on this.

If we accept "The New York Times" premise that this is what they hear on this tape, and it is as it's been laid out, one pilot leaves, tries to get back in, nothing is heard.

He gets more and more panicked. He starts banging on the door. The plane crashes, all in the span of let's say 8 to 10 minutes, what is the first and immediate question for you?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it's, Chris, unfortunately unintended consequences, isn't did? These doors were reinforced and the locks were put in such as they are, post 9/11 to try to save lives and it turns out it can be turned in the other direction potentially.

One of the things that is a simple way to try to avert something like this is a procedure, which is used by U.S. airlines, which is not used the world over, which is when one of the pilots needs to leave the cockpit to do whatever he or she may need to do.

[07:35:13] Another crew member, a flight attendant will come into the cockpit and spend that time with the other pilot so that there's never anybody alone in the cockpit.

CUOMO: We've become familiar with that. We also see now on airplanes how sometimes they take the drink cart and somebody stands behind it we've heard from experts now from you, that that's a U.S. rule. We don't know if it's followed in other European and Asian companies, but do we know? Do we know what the protocol is for Germanwings?

O'BRIEN: I don't know what absolutely for certain. I have read that this is not the case. It's not universally adopted the world over and it's a good procedure. You know, the reinforced door can be turned around. It's a two-edged sword, unfortunately.

And if there's -- ultimately as I always say, Chris, you know, you like to think you want to be able to trust the guy driving the bus. But that's not always going to be the case. And so when there's any one individual with that much authority and control, you have to pause and think about ways, let's put it this way, aviation is always about redundancy.

CUOMO: Right. You always want more than one way to handle a situation. We get it, that's what you mean by redundancy. You're a pilot also, so this was either intentional distress, or accidental distress. That was going on in the cockpit if the premise is right from "The New York Times," that this guy was trying to get back in and could not.

If it were intentional distress, that means that the pilot according to what we understand about how this plane works, would have to intentionally lock the door so the pilot outside could not get in. Even if he were to use the key pad code, there would be a window of 5 minutes.

When the door was locked that the key pad would not allow him to re- enter, which would mean he would have had to unlocked the door and relock it within the 5-minute span to avoid anyone coming back in, what does that mean to you?

O'BRIEN: Well yes, I mean it just to boil it down, there's a system here in case the crew is incapacitated. You want to be able to get in and that's what this is all about. But as long as somebody on the other side of the door is when somebody says, I want to get in, pushes a button or doesn't respond appropriately, that door will remain locked.

So if there was, there was some sort of deliberate act here, something nefarious, it certainly easy to keep that door locked and that's the flaw here.

CUOMO: But OK, so even if you want to take that as the supposition, when you think of somebody intentionally wanting to crash a plane, why would it take 8 minutes? Why would it be such a controlled descent this way? Isn't that confounding?

O'BRIEN: If you look, this has happened before. We can think of Egypt air 990, there was a crash, the Silk Air crash a few years ago, crash in Mozambique, similar scenarios, almost identical in some, in the Mozambique case where a crew member was locked out.

It happens a lot faster, generally. If your intent is suicide, you push on the wheel and you go down quickly in theory. But you know, again, this is something where we're getting into an area beyond aviation, this is psychology.

CUOMO: Right, and also look if you were -- if this person were a member of an organization, usually you would hear sooner rather than later, about their taking claim for such a horrible thing in a perverse way. If there were an accident, if there were this medical catastrophe that went on, well, then you have the idea of again, how did the plane sustain this particular route, which seemed to suggest intentionality by a pilot. Is that accurate?

O'BRIEN: Well, yes. If that's sole crew member was in fact incapacitated, left behind there, the remaining pilot should have been able to get in based on the way the system works. So it takes an active response on the other side in order to maintain it being locked. So I would discount that theory. One way or another, that person on the other side, wanted that door to remain locked.

CUOMO: We're going to be monitoring the press conference that's going to be held by the French prosecutor as information comes out to validate this premise, we will deliver it.

To you, Miles, thank you very much. Another questions being asked about this is what about people's cell phones? Remember they were in the Alps. You need proximity to a cell tower for those calls to work whether or not they are unsent messages that maybe found, we'll have to see.

CAMEROTA: All right, so that press conference is happening live. We're monitoring it for developments, all of this mysterious information coming out this morning. We'll bring that to you.

We do have much more ahead on the crash of 9525. We're going to use an Airbus flight simulator to see how a pilot could get locked out of the plane's cockpit.

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[07:43:54]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Regardless of the circumstances, whatever those circumstances may turn out to be. We still get an American soldier back if he's held in captivity, period, full stop. We don't condition that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Nearly a year after Bowe Bergdahl was freed from the Taliban in a prisoner swap. Charges are being filed against him for desertion. Now we're also getting a firsthand description of what Bergdahl says his life was like during those five years in captivity.

Let's get reaction from two people watching these developments very closely. Josh Korder served with Bergdahl in Afghanistan and Evan Buetow was Bergdahl's team leader and with him the night he disappeared.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. Sergeant Korder, let me start with you, what were your thoughts when you heard that Bowe Bergdahl was going to be charged with desertion?

JOSH KORDER, SERVED WITH BOWE BERGDAHL: It was relief. At the time, we weren't exactly sure what was going on because they said they were going to charge him with something and then they basically postponed that. So I wasn't really sure what was happening. To actually hear that the desertion charges were going forward was very much a relief.

CAMEROTA: Sergeant Buetow what about you, you were with him the night that he disappeared. Did you always believe that he had deserted?

[07:45:13] KORDER: Yes. I knew from the moment he left that he walked away on his own accord and everyone on the base at that time knew the same thing.

CAMEROTA: How did you know that? How were you so certain of that?

EVAN BUETOW, BERGDAHL'S FORMER TEAM LEADER: It was just a culmination of everything that had happened prior to him deserting and then when we woke up that morning and he wasn't there. It was just the gut feeling we had.

We knew that that had happened and it was just shortly after that that we confirmed that by talking to some children, who were outside the wire, who told us that they saw him walking away.

CAMEROTA: Sergeant Korder, what about what President Obama said there. Where he said regardless of the circumstances, we bring American soldiers home, end of story. Do you feel that way?

KORDER: In this situation, I do not. Somebody who has deserted on their own fruition, walked away, made that conscious choice, you know, leave behind his fellow soldiers and even his country, and walk away and just, at that point, it's like well, he's not the same kind of soldier that he was. He should not count in that category any more especially when it comes to trading five Taliban commanders for him. It's just not worth that.

CAMEROTA: Sergeant Buetow, if you could stand by for a second we have some breaking news on the crash of 9525. Stand by -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn, we have been monitoring this press conference, that's a prosecutor from Marseille, France, he's been giving out information about the investigation into what happened with Flight 9525. Here's what we know.

It was the co-pilot who remained in the cockpit and the main pilot, the senior pilot was locked out of the cockpit. They believe by the co-pilot. Why? Because of what "The New York Times" reported that it was heard on the cockpit recorder as reported.

According to this prosecutor that the co-pilot locked the door so the main pilot could not get in and increased the rate of descent from the cockpit they believe intentionally. Why?

They also say they hear on the recording, consistent breathing from that co-pilot, no mention of anybody else being in there with him, which was part of the speculation about U.S. policy that they have to have more than one person in the cockpit at a time.

Here we're not hearing that. And we're hearing again, there was constant and consistent breathing all the way until the point that the recording cut off. Now, let's dip in for a second and see what we hear and we'll translate.

BRICE ROBIN, MARSEILLE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR (through translator): -- professional, I don't know, if of the co-pilot who was a German nationality. I have given and I want to tell you that, I've given all this information to the 200 or 250 victims, the families -- families of the victims in another room in this airport.

Of course, I am ready to answer any questions. Yes? I can't answer your question. I think I've let you understood that I received some information too late. When you, what do we know about the casual answers of the co-pilot?

For me, that means it's a short exchange. There's a briefing and we would have hope for a dialogue and it shouldn't just be a casual response or casual answers in the plural. Do you have any other information on the pilot? Well no, no. Hang on, hang on.

I remind you it's 48 hours since the crash and it's in the middle of the night that I got this information. And I would remind you that as of this morning, we are currently doing some research and pursuing our investigation to understand the environment of that co-pilot.

Did the co-pilot say anything when he was on his own? No. No. Just his breathing, apparently, he was breathing normally. He didn't say a word from the moment that the captain or chief pilot left the cockpit.

Can there be an override? Apparently not from outside, otherwise the captain would've done it because he must have realized what was going on. And if he'd been able to open this door, and I'd remind you he's armored, the captain would've done it.

[07:50:08] Are you talking suicide? I'm not using the word because I don't know. All I'm saying is that given the information that I have at this moment today, maybe in a few days, I'll have more information.

But today, I can only tell you that deliberately he made possible a loss of altitude for the aircraft, which is not totally abnormal, 1,000 meters a minute, roughly. It's quite legitimate. But he had no reason to do so.

He had no reason to stop his captain from returning to the cockpit. That's already quite a lot. He had no reason not to answer the air traffic control, which was telling him about loss of altitude. He had no reason to refuse to put in a code, which would make it a priority aircraft compared to all other aircraft in the area. That's a lot. What about the possibility of feeling unwell? For the moment, I'm repeating it, it's only 48 hours. It does seem that he was breathing normally. It's not the breathing of somebody who is having a stroke or heart attack. And he doesn't say one word. Not one word. I repeat it, absolute silence.

So what about the alarms? Would everybody onboard be aware of what was going on? The passengers and so on, it's difficult to answer your question. But within the victims' families, I was asked the same question. I reckon that the victims only became aware of what was going on at the very last moment.

Let me finish, because on the tape, the sound that we're hearing, the screams are only in the very last moments before impact. Forgive me. It's a somewhat sordid detail. I've answered. I've answered, but only the very last moments.

Could you -- well, in English, maybe -- I can -- so you're saying, what can one hear in the cockpit are you asking? In the cockpit, he gave no response at all, not one word, if I understand your question. In the cockpit, it was absolute silence. All right, OK.

CUOMO: We're going to keep monitoring this press conference. We're just waiting for translation to pick back up. Let's bring in David and Richard Quest to go through what we've got. And so far, which is a lot. Here is the headline.

The reporting of the "New York Times" that the captain, the main pilot here was locked out of the cockpit is true. According to that man, the prosecutor, the French prosecutor's leading the investigation for French authorities.

It was the co-pilot that remained inside. There is no indication that he was with anyone else. They believe the co-pilot was alone in the cockpit. The captain, the senior pilot was locked outside. This investigator believes that that was intentional.

He believes that the co-pilot intentionally increased the pitch and rate of speed of the aircraft. He has reported that the co-pilot said nothing despite all the urgency and warnings from the captain on the outside as he was trying to break in.

He also reported that there were screams heard, but only in the final moments before the crash. Those are the main facts. Alyson, what else?

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in --

CUOMO: Do we have translation back? OK, let's dip back in and hear more.

ROBIN (through translation): -- German national, I don't know, but German national full stop, and he's not on a list of terrorists, if that's what you're meaning, not at all.

So there's no other way of opening the door? No. The new legislation following the 11th of September terrorist attacks impose a double system for locking the doors to avoid anybody being able to access the cockpit to then take over the aircraft.

[07:55:01] And that mechanism means that the person inside has to allow, even if there's a code, it's an I.D. code, either with a camera system where the person presents themselves and recognized that you have to activate a button so as to be able to open the door.

Well, it depends on the aircraft. I think only the most modern aircraft. This aircraft is 1991, about 24, 25 years old. One question at a time, please. No, once one leaves the cockpit, the door is automatically blocked.

Well, the co-pilot's answers were brief, not a real dialogue. That's what I was saying. That's not a real dialogue. Where beforehand, it was a normal dialogue. I told you, maybe a bit, well, pleasantries and courteous and whatever.

But when the captain speaks about the briefing, the checklist of everything that has to be done, the responses are casual short, short. Well, maybe the word I used, you don't like it. Well, they were short. There was no real exchange.

Might there be panic on the part of the co-pilot? Is he breathing more deeply? So far as I know, there's no camera within the cockpit to film the co-pilot. But we don't get the feeling that there was any particular panic because the breathing remains steady.

How can you tell from his breathing that he was conscious? Well, the breathing was not faltering. It was normal human, normal breathing, apparently, anyway. You said at the beginning of the conference. No. Involuntary manslaughter, at the beginning I started -- let me, hang on. I started an inquiry at the beginning, it was a possible accident.

So I started an investigation on the basis of involuntary manslaughter in the plural for many people, but this morning I said there's a deliberate action. I'm going to go into greater depth before I change the title of my investigation, but at the moment involuntary homicide or manslaughter.

Well, the town in Germany, I don't know, but we're looking at those environmental circumstances. We're looking at the co-pilot. We've only known this a few hours. So do you have any information on the co-pilots? We're starting.

Information on the co-pilot will mainly come to us from the German legal authorities because it was a German working for a German company living in Germany. So here, the person is not known, and apparently, I have no answers so far.

I expect to have something later today or tomorrow, and I'm waiting for the official response from the German legal authorities. The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, committed herself as did the Spanish prime minister. They committed themselves before the French president to give mutual assistance ASAP. When the captain leaves the cockpit, does he ask his co-pilot to start descent procedures? No, I'd remind you, this aircraft was in automatic control and he leaves saying I'm leaving controls in your hand.

And I imagine as I said, he was going to satisfy a normal need. Well, the going, you don't start your descent too long because the descent started. And it is not door-to-door. It may be not p.c., but do we know the religion of the co-pilot?

I've given you his nationality, I don't know his religion. I've told you when I have such information, I'll give it, but I don't think it'll be necessarily need to look in that direction.

You can't give his, who he was? The co-pilot?

I've already given it to the victims' families. His name was --