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German Police Search Co-Pilot's House for Clues; Lufthansa: Lubitz Showed 'No Sign' of Instability; Victims' Families Visit Flight 9525 Crash Site; Saudi-Led Airstrikes Pound Iran-Backed Houthis; What Changes Are Needed in Wake of Crash? Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 27, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ROSIE TOMKINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Chris, here in Montabaur as you can see a large gathering of people and media gathering with the focus now on this man who grew up in this town with an apparently normal family.

[07:00:08] How on earth he could have come to be somebody motivated to do something so horrific.

Police yesterday were searching his family home here and his apartment in Dusseldorf. And they did, as you say, recover some documents and items which they say may give us clues into why he could have done this.

Other questions around his mental stability, the community here have described him as a normal man. Those that knew him since he was a teenager talked about how he loved to fly, how he was realizing that dream of becoming a pilot.

It has been confirmed that he took a break several years ago in his training to become a pilot. That reports that he was depressed at the time are unconfirmed.

In the meantime, neighbors also expressing sympathy for the family who are, of course, not only dealing with the grief of having lost their son, they're also now dealing with the incredible shock of hearing that he apparently deliberately did this. That he spent the final minutes alone in the cockpit, silently breathing and deliberately plunging himself and all those people to death -- Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you so much for that. Now a question that's on the minds of so, so many today, what on earth could have led the co-pilot to intentionally crash that plane into a mountainside?

CNN's senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen has more for us from Cologne, Germany -- Fred.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and Michaela, I was talking to the CEO of Lufthansa, which is the parent company of Germanwings. I posed that very question to him, and he said at this point in time the company simply has no explanation as to why this man did this. They say they very much pride themselves on the way they choose their pilots, on the way they train their pilots, and also on the way that the professionalism of their pilots is.

So they say they have no idea how this could have happened or what his mental state could have been. They certainly say that there were no red flags either raised in his training or raised during his work experience that he gained at the company since 2013.

We've also learned more about what actually happened in the plane. Apparently, right after the plane reached cruising altitude the captain went out of the cockpit, presumably to go to the bathroom or something, and that point the co-pilot locked the door.

Now, there is apparently a way for someone to get in from the outside. There's a code, if you know it, to try and get back in. But the CEO of Lufthansa told me that he believes the co-pilot simply did not let the pilot back in. He locked the door and then deliberately, as Chris just said, put the autopilot on 100 feet, which eventually led to the plane crashing into the mountain.

So there are still a lot of questions, but certainly, one thing that the Lufthansa CEO, when speaking to me, was very clear on. He says this was clearly a deliberate attempt to destroy this aircraft -- guys.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Fred, thanks so much for that.

Well, the news that the co-pilot deliberately crashed the plane is devastating to the families of the victims. They gathered in France for a memorial service near the crash site. Meanwhile, weather slowing the task of recovering remains.

Let's get to CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson in France with an update -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the wind is picking up here today, but the helicopter operations and recovery effort is continuing, despite the high winds. What we're seeing, an increased number of helicopters. We're seeing the recovery teams with their backpacks, with their harnesses being lifted high into the mountains. We are expecting more families to be brought here today by the French authorities.

Yesterday a service was held in a local church, and a memorial service was held in a field that the French authorities brought more than 100 family members to. This was the closest site they said that they could bring the family members to the crash site.

There was a memorial plaque there. The family members were able to go and read the names of their loved ones on that plaque.

Of course, those -- the family members also coming to terms, not just with the location, not just with their grief already, but burdened with the knowledge, now knowing that the co-pilot had intentionally killed their relatives.

One father spoke, saying that they should look at their loved ones' whole lives, not the last few minutes. This is what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT TANSILL OLIVER, FATHER OF VICTIM ROBERT OLIVER CALVO: I would encourage them to not focus on those last ten minutes, the final crash. But I'd like to encourage them to think about the wonderful years that they have enjoyed life together. Those wonderful moments, happy moments with the family, with friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now the recovery effort is continuing. We are expecting more bodies to be recovered from the -- from the crash site today.

Also, aircraft pieces were being picked up yesterday. We could see at one point, one piece of aircraft slung beneath a helicopter on a cable as it was pulled out of that remote mountain area. All that is being taken to a staging area.

The families not expected to go to that staging area. But will likely go to the memorial site, likely go to the church. Again, the French authorities trying to do everything they can to help the families with their grieving.

Back to you.

[07:05:10] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Nic, and obviously, we have to balance that urgency with the safety of those trying to do the recovery there. That's treacherous terrain, high winds and helicopters do not mix well, so we're staying on that.

Let's get now to this bigger question of why this happened and how do we stop it from ever happening again. We have former NTSB chairman Jim Hall; and CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem. She's also a former assistant secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

So Juliette, starting with you, do we have it right so far? We have to go on the reporting. We have to go on the airlines. We have to go on the authorities. And if this was a deliberate act, it takes us to the central issue of -- yes, why did he do it? But how do we stop this from happening? Is there a way to make sure that nobody can ever use an airplane as a weapon?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So this is where it gets difficult, because we have a global economy. Millions of people are in the air. We need flow to work. So the more security you put on any system, the slower it's going to be. So we're constantly balancing sort of flow with security.

Look, we can put cameras in the cockpit. We can find some way, use technology to sort of bypass a potential sort of suicidal pilot. We could -- there are other means that you could do to sort of make sure that this post-9/11 security effort, right, to close the cockpit door, which has been quite successful, may have ways to get around it, which we might need. But let's just put this in perspective. This is a horrible tragedy.

But in the history of airlines disasters and airline travel, this is not the highest risk, right?

CUOMO: You have 24 out of, like, 7,000.

KAYYEM: Yes.

CUOMO: It's like 0.3-something percent. It's very small, since 1993. But one is too many, right? And we designed this cockpit situation after 9/11 to keep us safe.

And now...

KAYYEM: It's bitter, I know.

CUOMO: ... we are getting hurt by our own safety change.

KAYYEM: It's a bitter irony. But let's just say that change has worked. I mean, to the extent that the vulnerability of the pilots in the cockpit has now essentially gone to zero, right? No one has been able to enter a cockpit door unless they are invited in. That is good.

But we may need to mend some of these changes that we put into place. The threats change. This is a new kind of threat. There are other things that can be done, more psychological evaluation for pilots, all the things we've been talking about the last couple of days.

But I will say this always. There's no system like that's as open, you know, as so much movement involved with it that's going to be perfectly safe. There are always going to be vulnerabilities.

CUOMO: Look, Jim, as you well know, we're seeing more and more mental illness manifest in problems all the time. Because it's ignored; it's not recognized by society. And we're not going to solve any of that today.

But when you look at what happened in this scenario, what are changes that could be made that would make a difference and make this less likely?

JIM HALL, FORMER NTSB CHAIRMAN: Well, since 2000, NTSB has had a recommendation for cameras in the cockpit. We do not have cameras in the cockpit today. And in this investigation, we will have the sound. Hopefully, we will have the data. But we will not have the images of what occurred in that cockpit, which will leave this investigation in many instances, incomplete.

So cameras in the cockpit and, of course, putting in regulation, the requirement that they will constantly be two pilots or two members of the flight crew in that cockpit as we have had in the United States, is important and has seemed to work.

CUOMO: Two points of pushback. First of all, cameras in the cockpit help people like you, NTSB former investigator figuring out what happened and why so there's not mystery. The MH-370 drama of not knowing. But it doesn't stop it.

Two people in the cockpit might stop it. Or might not. Because someone could overpower me, if I'm in the cockpit with them ,and they want to do something horrible. Or I may in cahoots with them.

So those aren't silver bullets to prevent either, are they?

HALL: Well, information is -- is a silver bullet. And these investigations are designed for the purpose to prevent a further recurrence of this similar type of event, of which we have had some five to eight, depending on your count, of possible murder-suicides by pilots in commercial aviation. This is the issue that this investigation needs to address.

CUOMO: Right.

HALL: And while after 9/11 we looked at threats outside the cockpit...

CUOMO: Now you have to look inside.

HALL: ... we now need to examine threats inside the cockpit.

CUOMO: All right. And Juliette is agreeing with you. Let me ask you one thing that my producer, John Griffin, was pointing out to me. This guy turned the knob, whatever, I don't know the specific parlance, and we don't need to, down to 100 feet. Why would you ever allow somebody to make a plane automatically fly at 100 feet? What good can come from that?

KAYYEM: Well, I mean, part of it is we trust our pilots, so the entire system relies on some sort of sense that they know what they're doing and this just sort of fell apart when you have a suicidal pilot. So you could think of ways in which you could override a pilot who might be putting in instruments or putting in numbers that don't make sense to air traffic control. But we rely on our pilots, and that's why there's so much focus on who are they, are they getting the help they need?

But I have to agree with Jim on the -- on the -- not just the two -- the two pilots in the cockpits, but also the cameras. The reason why is no system is perfectly safe. But the more levels of security you can put in, the more sort of barriers, the more difficult you make it, then you reduce risk. You're not going to get it to zero. There's always going to be the person you don't catch. But the more barriers can you put on and this debate about cameras in the cockpit, like, we need to end it now. They need to get in there, whether as an investigation or as a deterrent.

CUOMO: Jim Hall, thank you very much.

Also to you, Juliette, as always.

And we do have a little bit of news on this front in terms of understanding why this happened. We are going to get a statement from the German prosecutor. It is imminent. So we're monitoring that. When it comes, we'll get that information and figure out what it means in this mystery right now -- Michaela.

M. PEREIRA: All pieces of the puzzle. All right, Chris. Thanks.

Back to another top story we're watching: Yemen's president now in Saudi Arabia's capital ahead of this weekend's Arab League summit. But back in his nation, chaos reigns. A Saudi-led Arab coalition continues to pound Iran-backed Houthis with airstrikes, despite opposition from Iran, which is already in a tight spot amid nuclear talks.

CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh joins us live from Kabul with the latest in the conflict -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, second night of heavy airstrikes around Yemen. Focused, it seems, slightly to the north of the capital in the Houthi stronghold of Sanaa, where the Houthis say four people were killed in a market when that was hit. And six killed in a house hit near a Houthi leadership target there. Obviously, we can't verify those claims, but obviously, there is mounting aggression on the ground from many who are alongside the Houthis here.

But most troublingly, Michaela, Chris, a regional dimension to this now significantly obvious. Yes, you mentioned how this could potentially derail U.S. talks with Iran. The U.S. are backing the Saudi coalition.

But the Saudi coalition is broadening now, predominantly Sunni in this Arab League meeting in Sharm el-Sheikh. Imminently, they will be continuing to discuss the joint Arab strike force, so to speak. The united military force they want to use, what they consider to be hotspots around the world.

Fundamentally now, we are seeing the prospect, maybe, of Saudi troops and maybe even Egyptian troops being introduced into this war. That would be a Sunni ground fight against a predominantly Shia Houthi rebel movement backed by Shia Iran. Exactly the kind of conflict that's flown across the Middle East now. Exactly what people are most concerned about. We're into a very troubling new chapter here, Chris.

CUOMO: And Nick, as you've been saying from the beginning, as complicated as it seems, the simple truth is the region is destabilizing, and it may reach all the way to where you are in Afghanistan. We'll stay with you.

Other news: The deadline for a nuclear deal with Iran now just four days away, and the Saudis are not helping the situation, raising the stakes by warning that they may build a bomb if Iran is ever allowed to get one.

Iran's president, Hassan Rouhani now intervening in the talks, sending a personal letter to President Obama and the leaders of the other five powers involved. The complete contents of that letter still unknown but its effect is certainly going to be relevant.

CAMEROTA: U.S.-led war planes launching more airstrikes on ISIS targets on the Iraqi city of Tikrit. But support for mission on the ground is thinning. Iran-backed Shiite fighters boycotting the fight, saying they do not want help from the United States. As many as 10,000 fighters no longer battling the terror group.

M. PEREIRA: The U.S. Secret Service reportedly imposing tougher rules on driving agency cars after drinking. Now, according to the "Washington Post," the new policy prohibits staff from driving government vehicles within ten hours of consuming alcohol. That policy went into effect this week amid allegations that two Secret Service agents drove through a bomb threat investigation near the White House earlier this month after a party at a nearby bar.

We were wondering what kind of effects and what rules would be coming.

CAMEROTA: I guess that makes sense. OK. Ten hours, I mean, it seems random. But OK. I guess that we need that since they...

M. PEREIRA: Common sense doesn't rule.

CAMEROTA: Common sense violated the rules.

M. PEREIRA: Sure.

CUOMO: You know, you get it -- right now, it's the Secret Service, right, and they've been getting a lot of stink on them recently. But you know, it doesn't matter who it is, where it is. It could be any -- we see this all the time. How do you hold those who are in power accountable? Right? It does seem like you're supposed to hold these guys the most accountable, these men and women. But it seems like they seem to slip through ordinary accountability more than the rest of us.

CAMEROTA: Right. And these were senior, two senior agents. All right. Thanks for that update.

M. PEREIRA: No problem.

CAMEROTA: All right. Back to our top story, the news that Germanwings co-pilot intentionally crashed the plane raises so many questions. Like should pilots have to undergo psychological testing regularly? We'll take a look at that.

[07:15:05] CUOMO: And just four days left to get a framework for a deal with Iran. And the distractions are just piling up. Now the man on your screen, the president of Iran, Rouhani, he's getting involved with the talks. He wasn't before. What's his letter say? What does it mean about the chance for a deal getting done? We'll tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. PEREIRA: Do changes need to be made to mental health screening for pilots? Just one of the big questions in the aftermath of the revelation that the co-pilot on Flight 9525 deliberately crashed the plane.

So what can be done to ensure that pilots really are fit to fly, and what changes can be made to the airline systems to avoid a repeat of this horrifying incident?

We're going to ask former NTSB investigator and international transportation, safety and security consultant, Charlie Pereira. No relation.

Mr. Pereira, thanks so much for joining us. I think it is going to come as a surprise to many people to learn that mental health screenings are not part of the regular screening and the regular process for FAA-approved pilots.

CHARLIE PEREIRA, FORMER NTSB INVESTIGATOR: Yes. And everything is on the table after this accident. We're going to have to look at everything we can do to prevent recurrence. That's -- as Jim Hall said earlier, that's one of the primary missions in an investigation like this and psychological screening will have to be looked at, as well as technology solutions. Changes to the airplane cockpit and lavatory configurations are possibilities. And technology solutions that have been discussed to possibly take over when the pilots are either incapacitated or intend to do bad things should also be on the table.

[07:20:20] M. PEREIRA: Well, let's look at the mental health right off the bat. Because I think that is something that is shocking to people. We know they have a yearly physical. Shouldn't this be part of the yearly physical? I mean, these people are trusted with the lives of hundreds of people.

C. PEREIRA: Well, in the past the primary focus on system safety has been on airplanes and training for pilots to make sure they do the right thing with respect to accidental causes. After 9/11, you would have thought that the aviation industry would have taken a similar system, safety approach...

M. PEREIRA: So what's the problem?

C. PEREIRA: ... for security.

The problem is not taking, in my opinion, a professional and thorough enough approach at engineering security issues out of the aviation system as well as they have for the accidental issues out of the aviation system.

M. PEREIRA: Well, I understand when we had this conversation about cameras in the cockpit, much conversation. MH-370 brought that up. Other airline incidents have brought this up. This again putting into the spotlight.

I understand that you were actually a co-author of the NTSB recommendation that cameras be installed in cockpits. But that was 15 years ago. Why has that not moved forward?

C. PEREIRA: It actually started in the 1990s, over 20 years ago. It's primarily the pilots' union opposing it. You know, they have a very strong lobby, and they already believe that they have enough invasion of their privacy with the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder. They have fought very long and hard to prevent the industry from putting cockpit video recorders in place. And I personally think that's been very selfish and greedy on their part.

M. PEREIRA: Well, let's drill down on that a little bit further. And let us just say we are not -- this is not a referendum on all pilots. We know that the majority of pilots are professionals. They comport themselves well, and they have the safety of the passengers and their fellow crew members at heart.

But it seems to me that they have been against the mental health screenings. They've been against the cameras. They've been against some of this other technology. Why?

C. PEREIRA: To them, it's a personal privacy issue. You know, I -- I don't work for ALPA. I respect them. I've worked with them on many accident investigations, and they're a necessary part...

M. PEREIRA: Sure.

C. PEREIRA: ... of every accident investigation, in my opinion. They're a necessary part of our cockpit, also. I don't agree with some people that we get all the pilots out of the cockpit. I think we need to have the pilots still in the cockpit, at least two of them for now.

And I think we do need to have intelligent systems in place, though, that monitor certain parameters on the airline. Like the A-320 already has an angle of attack protection mode that it monitors, and regardless of the pilot inputs on the control, does not allow them to exceed a certain angle of attack.

And it's relatively easy as a software engineer to conceive of and implement similar code that would restrict them to certain bounds around their planned flight path and to have air traffic control and the company monitor that. And if they do need to go outside of those boundaries, then air traffic control and the company can allow them to do so.

But in this case, once it was obvious that there was a radical exceedance attempt outside of those boundaries, such a system could prevent them from doing so. And at that point, basically, he would be locked up there in the cockpit, confined to a certain flight boundary until they figured something out.

M. PEREIRA: Charlie Pereira, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

We're going to answer some of you questions, you at home, about the Flight 9525 disaster. You can tweet us your questions, your comments using the hashtag #GermanwingsQs -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Now look, this isn't the first time that a pilot has taken his own life while robbing so many innocents of theirs, as well. There's even a name for it. Aircraft-assisted suicide. Looking at other cases, may help us learn about this one. So we're going to do exactly that for you right ahead.

[07:24:24] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. PEREIRA: A 27-year-old co-pilot reset the autopilot from 38,000 feet to just 100 feet before he deliberately flew that Germanwings jetliner into a mountain in the French Alps. Investigators are searching now the Dusseldorf home of Andreas Lubitz, looking for any clues to explain why he took that flight down. His employer, Lufthansa, says Lubitz showed no signs of instability. We are expecting a new statement from the public prosecutor in Dusseldorf within the hour. We'll bring you the details as soon as we have them.

CAMEROTA: Yemen's president in Saudi Arabia ahead of this weekend's Arab League summit. This as a Saudi-led Arab coalition keeps up its air assault against Iran-backed Houthis. Saudi Arabia threatening to send in ground troops to Yemen's conflict.

CUOMO: Right now Amanda Knox's fate is being decided by Italy's supreme court. They're in session, and the judges are deliberating whether to uphold her murder conviction. You'll remember Knox returned to the U.S. in 2011 after a lower court threw out the original conviction. But the supreme court then reconvicted after that. Now, if the court upholds its decision, Italy could ask for Knox back for a prison sentence of up to 28 years.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. The final round of nuclear talks under way but road blocks remain. Iran said to be unwilling to compromise on some key issues. Now Iran's president is making an appeal to the leaders of the United States.

Joining us is Aaron David Miller, who advised six secretaries of state on the Arab/Israeli peace process. He's now vice president for new initiatives and a distinguished scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center. Aaron, great to see you. You're the perfect person to talk to about this this morning.

AARON DAVID MILLER, VICE PRESIDENT FOR NEW INITIATIVES, WOODROW WILSON INTERNATIONAL CENTER: Good morning, Alisyn.

[07:30:00] CAMEROTA: What does Iran want today?

MILLER: You know, they're looking for a deal they can defend. One that leaves them with a capacity when the deal is done to maintain a or at least create an industrial-grade nuclear infrastructure.