Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Viewer's Aviation Questions; Harry Reid Will Not Seek Reelection; Indiana Religions Freedom Bill: Belief or Bigotry? Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 27, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:25] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: You're watching this breaking news on the Flight 9525 investigation. German prosecutors say they found papers in the co-pilot's home documenting a medical problem. Notably, they found a ripped up note from his doctor granting him a day off the day of the crash. We're also learning he was hiding his medical condition from his employer.

These and other developments inviting so many questions. We've been asking you to send them into us. Well, we have an expert panel here to try and find you some answers. We have our David Soucie. We've asked him to rejoin us, along with Justin Green, who we should point out is a private pilot and the president of the International Air and Transportation Safety Bar Association. Juliette Kayyem is here, CNN national security analyst and former assistant secretary for the Department of Homeland Security. Are you guys ready?

JUSTIN GREEN, PRIVATE PILOT: Ready.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Ready.

PEREIRA: There will not be a test, but these are some really thoughtful questions from our viewers. And thank you for sending them in.

This one's from Twitter, and, Justin, I'll put it to you about the news that the co-pilot deliberately adjusted the auto pilot, "trying to understand why auto pilot config would allow for a setting of 100 feet? That occasion should never arise, right?" I mean it brings up the question, is there any scenario where that might -- you might use that?

GREEN: On -- on every flight you can have a -- fly an approach to an airport. You're going to be able to fly the auto pilot down to 100 feet and the pilots are going to take control of the airplane at that point.

PEREIRA: They fly auto pilot until that point in the flight when they land?

GREEN: They can.

PEREIRA: They can.

GREEN: They can. It's a pilot's --

PEREIRA: It's not usual practice?

GREEN: It's a pilot's choice. A pilot may take over controls earlier than that. But very often it's the safest way to fly using the auto pilot rather than pilot control. Now, that question actually raises a different issue, is whether the airplane could be equipped with something, a safety device and --

PEREIRA: Right. Failing the calls, failing the air traffic control trying to reach out in the case of an emergency.

GREEN: Right. Airplanes have ground proximity warning systems.

PEREIRA: Yes.

GREEN: And I guess what's going to be talked about is whether a ground proximity warning system can be tied to some sort of automatic system that would prevent the pilot from crashing the airplane purposefully.

PEREIRA: And there is some push back because pilots don't want to have the pilots put out of jobs. They don't want pilotless airplanes.

GREEN: Right.

PEREIRA: David, let's put the next question to you. Here's another one from Twitter. A question many have asked. Boy, we've asked this since MH-370. "Why isn't black box voice recorder data transmitted to be recorded in a safe location? Why wait until til after the crash?

SOUCIE: Exactly.

PEREIRA: Closing the barn door.

SOUCIE: How do you answer that? It's archaic what we're doing right now. We're literally archaeology tools out there looking for these pieces of the airplane that have all that information in this protected device. Now that's important to have. There's sometimes you don't have that connection to the streaming data, so that has to be there. But nonetheless, to be able to transmit information --

PEREIRA: The push back from the airlines is, what, cost effectiveness and how to equip all of the airplanes with that?

SOUCIE: Partially. Partially. As partially security too. You wouldn't want a terrorist to have access to every about every airplane that's going on up there too.

PEREIRA: Actively (ph) get into it.

SOUCIE: That -- it creates a vulnerability. So there's some -- a lot of issues that go into here. But, in general, I think it is something that has to be put in. And I think we've already started it because the ADSB, under the Nextgen (ph) program, in the FAA, the ADSB -- PEREIRA: Yes.

SOUCIE: Does give us information. We used it in this to -- the reason we know --

PEREIRA: Right.

SOUCIE: That that thing was turned to that 100 feet is because now we have the fourth dimension. We used to just know where it was laterally and we used to know how fast.

PEREIRA: So we are making some progress.

SOUCIE: Now we know where it's going. So that is streaming data.

PEREIRA: Another conversation here we've been having a lot on NEW DAY, for you, Juliette, "why not install cameras inside the cockpit and outside?" Interesting conversation. "Chang training selections for all." I mean it's sort of a three-part.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right.

PEREIRA: Cameras inside the cockpit, outside the cockpit and maybe changing the protocol.

KAYYEM: Yes. Yes. And this is not a new debate. I mean there has been for at least a decade discussions about putting cameras in the cockpit. It is a fight between people in security and the pilots unions and others. We absolutely need to do it. it's archaic, once again, archaic that we don't have cameras in the cockpit, just even for an investigation purpose. Look, a camera is not going to stop someone who's hell bent on killing 150 people.

PEREIRA: It will answer a whole lot of questions.

KAYYEM: But it will answer a whole lot of questions and it does serve as a deterrent. And so, to me, when you think about how can technology help us in safety and security? This is actually one in which it will at least help us determine what happened and may serve as a deterrent. And if someone's watching the cameras might trigger a response from ground control that could save lives.

PEREIRA: True. And another point is, it will bring closure to the families a little bit closer to coming to fruition.

KAYYEM: Yes. Yes.

PEREIRA: OK, another question here. We'll put it to either of you, David or Justin, maybe perhaps Justin. "Why isn't the pilot equipped with door over ride from the outside and some form of offense, a stun gun for example?" A slippery slope there, do you think, Justin, arming --

[08:35:00] GREEN: Well, the main reason that there's not any override beyond the I guess first level override is because they want to keep terrorists out of the cockpit. PEREIRA: Sure.

GREEN: So if you said, oh, you could always get into the cockpit, the pilot goes to the bathroom could be forced to enter this override.

PEREIRA: Right.

GREEN: So that's the -- that's the main reason. The stun gun issue really is -- raises a whole different question. Some pilots actually are allowed to fly with handguns in the cockpit and they have all these (INAUDIBLE) --

PEREIRA: In America?

GREEN: In America. And I, you know, I'd have to leave it to a security expert to say whether that's effective.

PEREIRA: David, you have -- you have a thought on that?

SOUCIE: No, I was actually going back to the other part, but we're good on it. We've covered everything.

PEREIRA: OK. And do you think the idea of giving the pilot some sort of (INAUDIBLE)?

KAYYEM: Yes, I mean as long as -- yes, I think if you had fingerprint I.D.s that would allow an authorized pilot with an authorized co-pilot to have a gun in the cockpit, I have been for that. and then the reason why is, there's -- you just want various lines of defense. No single thing is going to protect us perfectly. So you put different defenses in --

PEREIRA: So I was going to say, that could turn sideways real quick though.

KAYYEM: It could, but so could anything. I mean --

PEREIRA: That's a good point.

KAYYEM: And look at -- look at the cockpit door. We thought, oh, we've solved this problem. We're protecting the pilots. And now we've had four or five incidents.

PEREIRA: One last, quick question because I think there's a last one I think it bears considering today's news events. "If pilots suffer from mental health illness such as depression and are taking medication, are they considered fit to fly?" David.

SOUCIE: It depends on which medical condition. You know, there's medical conditions that affect their ability to be capable and execute their tasks and those are not because --

PEREIRA: OK. It's not a simple answer on that one.

SOUCIE: That's right.

PEREIRA: Thank you so much for all of you for who have contributed your questions to us and thank you to the three of you very much.

GREEN: Thank you, Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris, over to you.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, MicK, developments in 9525 and developments in politics. It turns out Democrats in the U.S. Senate going to need a new leader. Harry Reid, the man on your screen right now, is deciding not to run for another term. Why? We'll tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:47] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: I have had time to ponder and to think, we've got to be more concerned about the country, the Senate, the state of Nevada than us. And as a result of that, I am not going to run for re-election. My friend, Senator McConnell, don't be too elated. I'm going to be here for 22 months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That was Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid revealing that he will not seek re-election in 2016. The long- time Democratic leader deciding against a sixth term. But why now? Joining us is CNN politics executive editor Mark Preston.

Hi, Mark.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Hey, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So how big of a surprise is this?

PRESTON: A big surprise because we've heard Harry Reid time and time again say that he's going to run for re-election. He's somebody, Alisyn, who did not want to be pushed out of office. He didn't want Republicans who have made him the number one target heading into 2016 to try to tell him that they were going to defeat him. However, as you can see in that picture you just showed, that video, Harry Reid has had some health issues of late and, in fact, he had an accident recently where he got pretty banged up. So I think Harry Reid made the calculated decision that it was time for him to step down, Alisyn. But he also made a point in the video to say that he didn't want all of the Democratic resources going to him to try to get him re-elected when Democrats could potentially take back the Senate in 2016.

CAMEROTA: Mark, it's interesting because he does look banged up and he has looked banged up since that exercise injury in January. But he says in the announcement, the decision that I've made has absolutely nothing to do with my injury. So do we not really believe him?

PRESTON: I -- you know, in fact, I think it -- you know, he says that, but I do believe that he has had some kind of coming to Jesus moment, so to speak, about what his life and what his career has been. What he doesn't say in the video is that his wife also was involved in an accident a couple of years ago that was kind of life changing as well. And I think he probably looked at the road ahead. He has several grandchildren right now. And when you're the Democratic leader in the Senate, you spend all your time here in Washington. You're always trying to cut deals, you're trying to push through Barack Obama's agenda. I think that he probably looked at the road ahead and said to himself, it's probably time to spend -- you know, this was a life changing moment. I should spend some time with my family.

CAMEROTA: In fact, he does say that having had down time because of that injury has sort of made him want more down time. But, you know, Harry Reid, so he's been in Congress for three decades. He's been a polarizing figure for some. He has done some controversial things, some controversial procedural changes that he's made. So what will the response be today to his departure announcement?

PRESTON: Well, of course, I mean, no surprise, we'll see glowing acclamations (ph) from Democrats saying that he'd been such a great leader. And then, of course, we'll hear the Republicans say that, you know, that he was a bad steward of the U.S. Senate.

I think what's important to note, though, given the fact that we're looking at really the conclusion of President Barack Obama's time in office, is that he owes a lot to Harry Reid for helping him push through some very controversial issues, including health care. Had Harry Reid not taken the stand that he had taken and really helped Obama push through health care, perhaps we wouldn't have seen health care get passed, as well as some other issues. So I think when you look at the long term, yes, Harry Reid did govern the U.S. Senate with an iron fist and he certainly made a lot of enemies, including within his own party, Alisyn. The fact of the matter is, is that he was really a key ally for President Barack Obama.

CAMEROTA: He -- he is considered a great tactician. He's considered a great strategist. But he, of course -- and he also is sort of an unabashed controversial person. You know, he takes his positions and he defends them in the -- that pugnacious way because he's a former boxer. So who will take on his role now moving forward?

PRESTON: Well, if you can even imagine that perhaps somebody more pugnacious might actually slip into that slot, and that's Charles Schumer, the New York senator. He is already making phone calls. Our colleague, Jeff Zelony (ph), is reporting this morning that Chuck Schumer, who has been eyeing the majority leader or minority leader slot for some time now is actually making calls, saying that he's interested in it. So it would be interesting to see if Chuck Schumer does win, you know, the Democratic leader's slot. You would see this incredible power shift to New York given the fact that Schumer is from there.

Another person is the whip, Dick Durbin from Illinois.

[08:45:00] Now Durbin has been Harry Reid's right-hand man, so to speak, in running the Senate floor for many, many years. But really Schumer has come in and supplanted him in many ways. So there could be a bit of a battle between those two men.

CAMEROTA: Interesting to watch the musical chairs begin already. Mark Preston, thanks so much for all of that insight.

PRESTON: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Good to see you. Chris?

CUOMO: Makes you think about who would want that job. But let's see what happens.

All right, so religious freedom, that's what America is all about, right? So that a law that protects you from having to do things against your faith, that's a good thing, right? But what if that law means you can refuse to serve gays at your restaurant? A new Indiana law won't do that says the governor who signed it, but many disagree. We debate. You decide.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Now, under a media blackout, and you can judge for yourself why that was done, Indiana Governor Mike Pence signed a religious freedom bill that could allow businesses to refuse to serve gays on the basis on the business owner's faith. That's an argument about the bill.

So is this about belief or bigotry? Here to discuss, Michelangelo Signorile, a good Polish man and a host at Sirius XM radio. Also author of several books, one of them called "It's Not Over: Getting Beyond Tolerance, Defeating Homophobia, and Winning True Equality." It's all about implicit bias becoming the new wave of the battle, and it seems that you were quite the Cassandra on that, predicting this.

[08:50:00] But let's give the governor his due. He says that this law is an extension of the federal law of religion protection that grew out of the Hobby Lobby case. We all remember that. And here's what the governor says, Governor Pence of Indiana, about why this law should not be feared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: This legislation restricts government action. It doesn't apply to disputes between private parties unless government action is involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. For the sake of our discussion, Mike, I will suggest the governor's position on this. What is your problem with what he just said?

MICHELANGELO SIGNORILE, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Well, he is distorting exactly how far reaching this law is. There are 19 states that have religious restoration freedom acts, many of them -- all of them, really, are -- except for Mississippi, which recently passed one -- about really protecting employees and their religious discrimination. This takes off from Hobby Lobby and really just gives the employer carte blanche to deny services to people in a business, perhaps fire people from jobs. CUOMO: But he says it's only state action. That would be private

action. That would be, you know, this is just about the government making your business sell contraceptives when you're a Christian and you're against it.

SIGNORILE: But it's about allowing them to say, we don't serve gays, we don't allow gays in here. We're not going to service this particular event. We don't like that these two people are nuzzling or holding hands in our store. We don't like that. You can't come in here.

CUOMO: But why does this law apply to that if the governor says it only applies to state action? Then couldn't the business not claim protection under this law because that's not a state action, that's two people doing what people in love do?

SIGNORILE: No. Actually, there's no law in Indiana that protects gay people or transgender people against discrimination in public accommodations.

CUOMO: But why would this law protect a business? If I go into the restaurant and the restaurant owner doesn't like the way you and I are behaving with each other and they say get out, how does this law protect them?

SIGNORILE: This allows them to say my religious belief says I don't -- I cannot bear to have you in here. I cannot bear to accept serving you. That would go against my religious belief. So therefore you have to go to another business.

And the argument with all these laws has been, oh, you can go to some other business down the street. But in many small towns there is no other business down the street. It is literally saying to people you can't be served here in the way we saw with African-Americans during Jim Crow.

CUOMO: So you're saying the governor's suggestion that this only involves state action, which means not letting the federal government or state government infringe on your religious rights as a business, you're saying that's not what it's about?

SIGNORILE: Well, no matter whether it's about state action or federal action, it is the state engaging in -- or allowing businesses to engage in discrimination and turn people away, when the state should be about protecting people, all people, from discrimination.

CUOMO: Right, because -- you know what his counter is? He says I understand your concern. And that would be violating discriminating against a protected glass, which being gay is a protected class, LGBT, protected class, deserving equal protection under the law. I get it. That's not what this law is. This law is when the government passes a law that a private owner of a business who has religious beliefs doesn't like, they don't have to follow it. Your scenario doesn't fit.

SIGNORILE: Well, he is really broadening what the protection is for religious people in this country. Gay people are not protected under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, so there are no protections for gay people. There are protections for people on the basis of religion, but not to discriminate against other people on that basis. So you can't say, on the basis of religion, my religion doesn't like African- Americans. I'm not going to serve them. Gays aren't --

CUOMO: Because they're a protected class under Title VII.

SIGNORILE: They're a protected class under Title VII.

CUOMO: Gays are not.

SIGNORILE: Gays are not.

CUOMO: So it's race, color, creed but not LGBT?

SIGNORILE: That's right. We have no federal law in this country, and we have only a handful of states that have these laws. 29 states do not protect gays from discrimination and that is where this law does come into play. Indiana is not one of them.

CUOMO: Now, last thing, this conversation is an extension of something you saw coming a few years ago. Your book "It's Not Over", you talk about, yes, the big marriage battle is somewhat over. We'll see what happens with the Supreme Court. But there are a lot of other implicit biases out there. Is this what you were worried about?

SIGNORILE: Absolutely. What we're seeing antigay forces do is rebrand their bigotry to make it more acceptable. We've seen this happen with African-Americans. They go for the issue -- and with women -- they go for the issue that they think will be broader to the public. So this sounds like, well, a business shouldn't have to do something they don't believe according to their religious beliefs.

When I was at one of the conferences doing a lot of research, I went to the Conservative Political Action Conference.

[08:55:02] One of the antigay leaders said if we lose we lose at the Supreme Court on marriage, we'll look for the gay version of the partial birth abortion. They're looking for the issue that the larger public cold agree with them on, and that is how they're rebranding.

CUOMO: And it just still raises the same question, why is there so much concern about how others choose to love? All right, we're going to be right back after this. Thank you very much to you.

SIGNORILE: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: The book, again, "It's Not Over". It's an interesting one. And to be clear, we're not just talk to go Signorile. We offered Indiana Governor Mike Pence the opportunity to come on the show. His office declined our invitation. The offer remains open.

When we come back, it's been a long week. How about some Good Stuff?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: So Good Stuff on this Friday. Navy vet and single dad Greg Wickhers loves his little daughter to death. He's a single dad, as I said. But he's got limitations like any dad. Common one? Can't do his little girl's hair. So he decided to go to beauty school to learn how.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREG WICKHERS, SINGLE DAD: Do you want your hair like that? No? Just a matter of learning how to do it. Just taking the time to learn how to do it and now it's very simple to do these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:00:02] CUOMO: A lot of dads deal with this and single dads have to do it alone. He didn't stop there. He started a Facebook page to encourage other single dads not to be scared. And now 9,000 followers.

CAMEROTA: That's great.

PEREIRA: Well done.

CUOMO: So thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: It's hard, it's hard. And he's got that nice smooth head but he doesn't want that look for his daughter.

All right, a lot of news this morning, so let's get you to a special edition of the "NEWSROOM" with Mr. Anderson Cooper. Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Chris, Alisyn, good morning, Michaela as well. Thank you so much for joining us.