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New Day
Witness to Police Shooting Speaks Out; Report: S.C. Officers Exonerated in 200+ Shootings; Obama Condemns Gay 'Conversion' Therapy; Dr. Ben Carson Weighs in on South Carolina Shooting. Aired 7-7:30a ET
Aired April 09, 2015 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:00:18] FEIDIN SANTANA, EYEWITNESS: Before I started recording, they were down on the floor. I remember the police had control of the situation.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN HOST: Scott's family says they first saw the video Sunday. They're horrified and believe the video captures an attempt by Slager to plant a Taser close to Scott's limp body.
JUDY SCOTT, WALTER SCOTT'S MOTHER: The policeman is supposed to protect the people, not try to frame them. They're supposed to be honest people.
SAVIDGE: Slager joined the police department five years ago. In 2013, police records show he was exonerated following a complaint of improper use of force with a Taser involving a black man.
North Charleston's mayor and police chief announced the 33-year-old accused officer has now been terminated but that medical benefits for his eight-month pregnant wife would continue.
MAYOR KEITH SUMMEY, NORTH CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA: We think that is the humane thing for us to do.
SAVIDGE: The city leaders often interrupted by demonstrators and members of the public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
SUMMEY: May I make one statement?
SAVIDGE: Wanting to know whether the predominantly white force was now ready to change.
SUMMEY: We received a grant to purchase 101 body cameras. Every officer that's on the street in uniform will have a body camera.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SAVIDGE: But Chris, it isn't just the body cameras that those who
have been demonstrating are worried about. They are also wondering about the other officers. We're talking about those officers that immediately responded after the shooting. And what aid did they render or not render?
In their statements, many of them said that there was CPR, say that was administered to Walter Scott. But in the video we know it doesn't really show. Some people want those officers held accountable -- Chris.
CUOMO: Martin, I think you're asking the absolute correct questions. The video so overpowering about what it does show, is that it's taking some attention about what we still don't understand. And one of the questions is whether this situation should be seen as a statement about the policing culture in North Charleston.
Now, there is some data for you about this. There's a report out there that hundreds of people have been shot at by police in the last few years. None convicted of wrongdoing. So is this just because there's a lot of crime in the area? Or is the truth something more disturbing?
We have CNN's Brian Todd going through the numbers for us in North Charleston. And what do they show, Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, talking to community activists and local citizens, they are almost to a person telling us this is not a one-off in North Charleston, and it's certainly a pattern in South Carolina, as you mentioned. The numbers bear that out.
According to one state newspaper analysis, police in South Carolina have fired their weapons at 209 suspects over the past five years. Some of those officers have been accused of pulling the trigger illegally.
But astonishingly, there have been no convictions of officers in those 209 incidents over the past five years. We have three examples for you that kind of bear out just some of the accusations of improper use of force. Not just by handguns, but by Tasers.
March, 20014, a North Charleston police officer right here, he was sued for excessive force against a black teenager.
February of 2014, a white police officer was charged with misconduct, also charged with discharging a firearm into an occupied vehicle after fatally shooting a black man in his driveway in South Carolina.
Also in September of last year, a state trooper allegedly shot and wounded an unarmed black man during a traffic stop.
So again, Chris, you know, those stats are jarring enough. But again, you talk to people around here, activists and just people you encounter in the street, and they do say that African-Americans do feel targeted by the police. They feel like they're profiled. We've seen this over and over again in Ferguson, Madison and New York. And now, of course, we're seeing it here.
CUOMO: And they had specific policing issue there is in the 2008-2009 time. They made changes, and that's when you started to hear about culture changes for the worst.
Brian, thank you very much for putting numbers to these suppositions -- Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: It is so important to look at the data in addition to how you feel. You're right, Chris.
Let's bring in now (AUDIO GAP). He's the president of the North Charleston chapter of the NAACP. And Pastor Thomas Dixon. He's a volunteer pastor for the Summerville Christian Fellowship and co- founder of People United to Take Back Our Community.
Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here on NEW DAY this morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for having us.
CAMEROTA: Pastor, I want to start with you. The way the community in North Charleston has responded to this is so much more subdued, really, than when we've seen other incidents of police excessive force such as, well, what was considered excessive force in Ferguson, in Staten Island, New York, in Cleveland. How do you explain how your community is responding?
[07:05:10] PASTOR THOMAS DIXON, SUMMERVILLE CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP: The community has responded the way that we were built to respond. We -- we put out the word, beginning on Saturday not long after the incident, that the family and the community leaders are calling for calm. The community responded by giving us what we asked for. Right along with the fact that the transparency, limited transparency that we have with law enforcement in the beginning allayed some of the doubts and fears and apprehensions that create hostile situations.
And actually, once the video was released, most of the doubt, all of the doubt was actually taken away. Thereby nobody really had that reason to be angry anymore because of lack of communication. But that did turn over yesterday again, after the press conference that was called in city hall.
CAMEROTA: I do want to show...
DIXON: Once again were put in the equation.
CAMEROTA: I do want to show a clip of that, because this is not to say that your community is not angry. There have been demonstrations, and they are expressing anger. Let me show you what happened while the police chief was speaking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF EDDIE DRIGGERS, NORTH CHARLESTON POLICE: Any questions... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, chief, chief, can I ask...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Now Mr. Bryant, you hear them saying, "No justice, no peace." Of course, there is justice, inasmuch as our criminal justice system has charged this officer with murder. He is behind bars. What is the community calling for?
EDWARD BRYANT III, PRESIDENT, NORTH CHARLESTON NAACP: The community is calling for a dialogue with the police department and information and the truth. That's what they're asking for. Significantly important in this particular case is the fact that there's such urgency for the truth to come out.
In a sense, because it did come out very early, it put a calming effect across the whole community, and the whole town responded very graciously. Because in fact, ultimately, what they're looking for was the truth in the matter. And the matter was -- that was indicated by the video and not only that, but the citizens responded actively, candidly, intelligently, and that's the way we wanted it to happen.
CAMEROTA: Pastor, there's always a question after moments like this of whether or not this is just a tragic, isolated incident, or whether or not it's indicative of a larger pattern of abuse. What do you believe and know about the North Charleston Police Department?
DIXON: I could speak specifically to the North Charleston Police Department. But this is a systemic problem that's been ongoing in the state of South Carolina and across the nation.
The voice of the minorities and the black American, in particular, have not been listened to when we've complained about this situation. We've been more or less pushed off and discarded as what we're saying is about how we feel has been not included in the dialogue or the setting of policy and procedure. Because of that, because of our feelings not being included in that, we've had situations where we've -- we've been subjected to undue punishment that doesn't have to happen.
CAMEROTA: Such as?
DIXON: All we want to do is be heard and believed.
CAMEROTA: Pastor -- and I'm sorry to interrupt, Pastor, but I do want to get to what exactly you mean. What -- what hasn't been represented in your voice? Where do you want to be more included?
DIXON: Well, the primary place of inclusion in this situation, in police involvement would be at the table with police departments, and the mayors, the mayors throughout the nation.
Here in North Charleston, that's where we're going to do. We're going to sit down with them, and we're going to talk to them about how we feel. And this time, we're going to demand that our feelings be respected and not policies and procedures, continue to be set by policing, but by policemen and our elected officials, that don't include how we feel in it.
Basically, we've had a bunch of people who have said, "We really don't care how you feel, even though you are the ones that selected us, elected us and pay our salaries." No longer will we allow that to happen. And that's where the change will happen. Once we are considered by the people who now make the policies and procedures.
CAMEROTA: Mr. Bryant, I know you've said that you're not satisfied solely with the police officer being charged with murder. Yesterday the police announced that they will work to put body cameras on police officers. Will that help?
BRYANT: Yes, of course, it will help. Anything that will help, OK.
We're particularly interested in issues and things that would dwarf (ph) this kind of behavior from having been transparent, again, in this community. Not only that: we want to make sure that it goes on around the nation, as well.
Things are calm in North Charleston because of the fact that the urgency and the quickness of information that came out put everything to doubt with that video. That truth was shown. It was shown there. The family had asked for that. They requested that, that they get the truth and they got the truth.
And therefore, at the same time, while we had many conversations with the police department and had many former, police forms here in North Charleston, OK, at the top of the chain, we've had the trickle-down effect. We've had discussion. We've had meetings with the police chief. But that information is likely and slowly does not get down to the bottom level at the street level where people are being stopped, harassed, searched without profile and being treated the way they are. It needs to change.
CAMEROTA: Mr. Bryant, Pastor Dixon, we hear your frustration, and we hope that somehow the silver lining here is that there's an opportunity for change in your community. Thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.
DIXON: Thank you. Thank you for having us.
CAMEROTA: Let's get over to John.
BERMAN: Thanks, Alisyn.
The White House is calling for an end to a controversial therapy that claims to turn gay people straight. The Obama administration calls so-called conversion therapy -- they say it can cause substantial harm to gay and transgender youth.
CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski with more.
Good morning, Michelle.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.
You know, this all came about because an Ohio teenager who identified as female in December killed herself after her parents took her to this so-called conversion therapy that tries to change the gender identity. Often used on young people.
So that then sparked an online petition on WhiteHouse.gov, garnered more than 100,000 signatures, asking for a national law that would ban this kind of therapy.
Well, now the White House has weighed in, in a big way, agreeing with these people, saying that this kind of therapy could be potentially devastating.
It was a White House senior adviser, Valerie Jarrett, who wrote the response online, saying, "Overwhelming medical scientific evidence demonstrates that conversion therapy, especially when it's practiced on young people, is neither medically nor ethically appropriate and can cause substantial harm."
Now recently, the White House has taken certain steps to try to increase equality for people who are transgendered, who are lesbian and gay, bisexual and queer. I mean, they've made it very public things that they want to do within the federal government for federal contractors.
But to ban this therapy nationwide would require Congress, so what they did in the response to this petition was to say, we support states who take these steps. And some states have banned conversion therapy, including California, New Jersey and D.C.
Back to you, guys.
CUOMO: All right, Michelle, thank you very much. In other news, the Boston bomber could learn his punishment as early
as next week. A jury Wednesday found the 21-year-old guilty on all charges, 30 federal crimes in the Boston Marathon bombing case. The defendants seemed emotionless as the guilty verdicts rang out one by one.
The jury now, though, has what is arguably a more difficult task. Whether or not the Boston bomber should get the death penalty or life in prison.
CAMEROTA: The White House could announce plans to remove Cuba from the list of state sponsors of terrorism as early as today. The State Department making the recommendation and the White House poised to accept it, though Congress could try to block that move. The president may see Cuban President Raul Castro this week when the pair attends the Summit of the Americas in Panama.
BERMAN: All right. Those DirecTV ads featuring Rob Lowe that you have seen 10,000 times, they're being pulled off the air.
CUOMO: What?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB LOWE, ACTOR: Hi, I'm Rob Lowe. And I have DirecTV.
And I'm peaked-in-high-school Rob Lowe, and I have cable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Also known as Chris Cuomo.
CAMEROTA: Aw.
BERMAN: The Better Business Bureau's national advertising division siding with a number of complaints from cable company Comcast. It rules -- it rules that the ads, they're not quite accurate and they convey an unsupported superiority message. DirecTV says it is appealing.
CUOMO: But it's not -- so they're not saying there aren't alter egos of Rob Lowe?
BERMAN: No, exactly.
CUOMO: That's OK.
BERMAN: That's substantiated.
CAMEROTA: Or that a lot of people peaked in high school.
CUOMO: So they're upset. No, his other ones are even better. The Bad Choices Rob Lowe. He's got "Rob" tattooed on his face.
BERMAN: That's the one I identify with.
CUOMO: He says, "I'm eating this tuna sandwich I just found on the bus." That's a good one.
But so advertisers don't like it when their competition says that they're better than they are in their ads?
BERMAN: Unsubstantiated. Unsubstantiated claims, unsupported superiority message. How do you like that?
CUOMO: Those words must hit home a little bit.
BERMAN: I know. A little bit.
CAMEROTA: All right. Moving on, more body cameras are on the way to North Charleston police, is that the right first step towards making police there more honest? Should independent investigations be done in every single case?
CUOMO: And also guess who's on the show? Dr. Ben Carson. Few men who have entered the race so far can boast the kind of devotion by followers the way this man can. He hasn't entered the race yet. But he wants to talk about what matters most to this country. Is it a step closer to him saying he's in the race? What does he say about the big issues? Ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:18:51] BERMAN: In response to the fatal police-involved shooting in South Carolina, North Charleston officials are pledging to outfit its entire police force with body cameras. The shooting was captured on cell-phone video, and many are now questioning what would have happened if that video had not surfaced.
Now it raises another question. Many questions, in fact. Should police be investigating themselves at all?
Joining me now is Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Chief Rick Hite. Chief Height attended a White House meeting on Wednesday on the issue of improving accountability in police practices, such an important subject, particularly today.
Captain, thanks so much for many being with us.
Can you hear me, Captain?
POLICE CHIEF RICK HITE, INDIANAPOLIS METROPOLITAN POLICE CHIEF: Good morning.
BERMAN: It's very nice to see you. Appreciate you being with us. Let me stipulate that I've spoken to police officers who are outraged by what happened in South Carolina. One told me, you know, he is an unforgivable murderer, this officer who just did that. That said, without this video, would he have gotten away with it? He made up a story. Would he have gotten away with it?
HITE: Well, first of all, thank you for the opportunity. I like to make it very clear that, by and large, our police departments across the country work towards bringing about peace and civility in our community.
[07:20:09] I think it's important to have video as a tool to be able to do a couple of things.
No. 1, look at the event, assess it, look at the actions of the officer, the person in terms of looking at a profile or looking at the actions of the individuals involved in the incident. But also our training, looking at how we evaluate our training, whether in fact it's being used, how the laws are applied, et cetera.
CUOMO: Now, we don't want to condemn everyone, because this guy allegedly made up a story. But it does raise questions to a lot of people out there. Which is, who is watching the police officers? Who is out there making sure that, after an incident like this, that the cop isn't making things up?
HITE: Well, I think it's important to have a parallel track here. In Indianapolis, for example, we have a civilian review process. We have to be inclusive of our citizens, looking at our policies and be transparent. Honesty and trust is consistency over time.
In order to build -- put chips in the bank of trust, you have to have an honest dialogue, inclusive of a community at large, but also be fair about it.
Here in Indianapolis, again, we have our prosecutors respond to many of our police action shootings, to make sure it's fair and impartial.
BERMAN: Independent review. Now, in South Carolina, they have a system also in place, essentially the state investigating the local situation. Can police officers do essentially the same thing at different levels? Can they investigate other police officers?
HITE: I think we have to have parallel tracks again. We have a severe interview process, we have the prosecutors and law enforcement. But it goes back to, again, having that trust and that conversation.
We have opportunities to communicate through conversations. We talk about strategies with our public safety director. We go about the community, having town hall meetings to talk about issues before they happen. So that when we do have these issues, we can have an open dialogue and walk away with some real truths. We have to be clear, in fact, that we have to have a fair and impartial police department. We take an oath to do that.
BERMAN: You know, what's interesting, there's a lack of accountability, in some ways, before, during and after, as well, in some parts of the country, because we don't keep national data on officer-involved shootings. Does this country need to do a better job of that to understand what's going on?
HITE: One of -- again, one of the issues that came up yesterday in Washington, at the White House was about the fact that we have to allow those individuals who have the expertise and technology -- social scientists, data scientists, educators, mental healthcare types -- to have a discussion with us about how we share that information, how we develop it, how we store it. And most importantly, how we disseminate it to the community. It is important to remove the mystique of policing and transparency in our country.
BERMAN: What do you think we would find if we did see all that data? What does your gut tell you? I was speaking to an officer yesterday. Again, plenty of outrage over what happened in South Carolina. But also, I was told there's this notion out there there's an epidemic of police shootings and he thinks that might be overblown.
HITE: I think you'll find two things. There's an increasing public and police encounters where violence is inflicted. We will see issues connected to mental health on both sides of the equation, whether it be inflicting trauma and violence on the community, PTSD with police officers. But you also see that, by and large, police officers do it right.
I think at the end of the day, the cameras will bear that out in terms of body cams. But again the national debate will continue in terms of how we again bring people in who are nontraditional, removing the mystique and being fair in our assessment of these incidents.
BERMAN: We talk about body cameras. In some ways, body cameras are an easy fix, and I think people can lean on that as a solution when it's only part of it. Are you concerned that people will focus on that and not the bigger issue?
HITE: I think they will, but I think it's a tool. Again, we want to make sure we get a snapshot of the actions of the officer. The actions of the person. The conversation, the level, the tone of the conversation. The loudness of the conversation. How it -- how it began in the first place.
And you know, at the end, I think we need people as police officers, we should leave them with the dignity and respect when there's a basic encounter with a police officer.
BERMAN: Chief Rick Hite, we appreciate your insight here. You've been thinking about this an awful lot. A lot to add to this conversation, so thank you -- Chris.
HITE: Thanks for having me.
CUOMO: All right, John. Look who we have here: potential Republican presidential contender, Dr. Ben Carson. Wildly popular among the GOP faithful. What does he think about South Carolina? What does he think about the deal in Iran? And is he going to enter the race? All the big questions for him right ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:28:32] CUOMO: All right. Let's bring in Dr. Ben Carson. There are so many people who are saying that you should be president of the United States. Your support numbers are growing, especially in that conservative branch of the GOP. Let me ask the first question: Are you ready to take the next step yet?
DR. BEN CARSON, EXPLORING PRESIDENTIAL RUN: We're still in the exploratory stage.
CUOMO: What else do you need to know about yourself or about the support to make the decision to get in?
CARSON: I'm very fiscally responsible.
CUOMO: Meaning?
CARSON: Meaning that I want to make sure that we have adequate finances, you know not just to get in, but to carry us through for quite some time.
CUOMO: As you're learning about the process, are you becoming more sickened by how much money matters?
CARSON: I would prefer a situation where you didn't have to raise incredible amounts of money. Because I would like virtually anybody to be able to enter the fray. Not just people who are well-connected and well-known.
CUOMO: Do you believe the Supreme Court and the law of the land is taking us in the wrong direction in terms of how money equals speech?
CARSON: I would just prefer us to get into a situation -- and it's going to require bipartisan conversation and agreement. But I think anybody looking at this objectively realizes that we've gone off in the wrong direction.
CUOMO: Now a man like you, who so many personally support, because of what you've shown in your life and what your beliefs are, that you have to think whether or not you can basically afford to run for president?
CARSON: And we've been, obviously, very encouraged by the large, incredible numbers of people who are supporting us.
