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New Day
South Carolina Police Officer Caught on Tape Shooting Fleeing Man in the Back; South Carolina Police Officer Fired after Being Indicted for Murder; Boston Bombing Suspect Found Guilty on 30 Counts; Iran Sending Aid to Houthis in Yemen; Golf's Masters Tournament Begins; Shooting Video Contradicts Officers' Account. Aired 8-8:30a ET
Aired April 09, 2015 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[08:00:04] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just want to get away of the Taser.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was sickened by what I saw.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would have happened if there wasn't a video released?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter what happens, it will not replace my son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iranian warships are moving into waters off the coast of Yemen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're well aware of the support that Iran has been giving to Yemen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty counts, found guilty in each and every one of them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I may be standing on one fake leg but I'm standing here stronger than ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY.
It is Thursday, April 9th, 8:00 in the east. Michaela is off. John Berman joins us. Thank you for doing that.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to be here.
CUOMO: We have new information for you about the deadly encounter between the South Carolina cop and the man he pulled over. What happened before the shooting? This coming from the man who did take that video that completely changed this case.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The North Charleston Police Department taking swift action, firing Officer Michael Slager as he faces murder charges and making further changes to the department. We begin our coverage with CNN's Martin Savidge in South Carolina. Good morning, Martin.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. You know, by now all of us are familiar with that horrific video that was taken of the bystander -- by a bystander of the shooting that took place. What many may not realize is that there are a number of other videos out there still. These are police videos, dash cams. And the real question is what do they show and tell? We could learn more today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWD: No justice.
CROWD: No peace!
SAVIDGE: Days after the release of this shocking video, North Charleston now feeling the fallout.
CROWD: Black lives matter.
SAVIDGE: Demonstrators gather in front of city hall demanding the mayor resign and more officers be arrested as the investigation into the shooting death of Walter Scott by Officer Michael Slager intensifies.
In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, Slager, seen here being debriefed by another officer, described a scuffle and claimed through an attorney that the 50-year-old fought for his Taser and he felt threatened. In an interview with NBC, the man who shot the disturbing video says he did see the two struggling on the ground.
FEIDIN SANTANA, WITNESSED SCOTT'S SHOOTING: I started recording and they went down on the floor. I remember the police had control of the situation.
SAVIDGE: Scott's family says they first saw the video Sunday. They're horrified and believe the video captures an attempt by Slager to plant a Taser close to Scott's limp body.
JUDY SCOTT, WALTER SCOTT'S MOTHER: The police are supposed to protect the people, not try to frame them. They supposed to be honest people.
SAVIDGE: Slager joined the police department five years ago. In 2013 police records show he was exonerated following a complaint of improper use of force with a Taser involving a black man. North Charleston's mayor and police chief announced the 33-year-old accused officer has now been terminated but that medical benefits for his eight-month pregnant wife would continue.
MAYOR KEITH SUMMEY, NORTH CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA: We think that is the humane thing for us to do.
SAVIDGE: The city leaders often interrupted by demonstrators, members of the public.
CROWD: No justice.
CROWD: No peace!
SUMMEY: May I make one statement?
SAVIDGE: Wanting to know whether the predominantly white force was now ready to change.
SUMMEY: We received a grant to purchase 101 body cameras.
(APPLAUSE)
SUMMEY: Every officer that's on the street in uniform will have a body camera.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: There's a growing group of people that are beginning to say, look, it's going to take more than just body cameras to change this police force. And there is also a growing sentiment, and it's a question, really. What about the other officers, those officers that responded in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, because in the statements they gave, it doesn't match what apparently we saw on the video, and as a result of that, many find that troubling. Alisyn?
CAMEROTA: Yes, is it a department-wide culture that needs to be fixed? And of course they are looking at all of that this morning as you said, Martin. Thanks so much for that.
So you just heard a small piece of what the eyewitness to the shooting told NBC's Lester Holt. Here is more of what he saw in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LESTER HOLT, NBC CORRESPONDENT: One minute you're walking to work, the next minute eight shots are fired. You must have been scared.
SANTANA: Yes. I still am. I'm still scared.
HOLT: You're still scared?
SANTANA: Yes.
HOLT: And yet you maintained your composure enough to keep videotaping this.
SANTANA: Yes.
HOLT: There's a moment on your cell phone video immediately after Officer Slager stops firing. It appears to me that he looks directly at you. I'm going to run this tape and just watch that instant. He fires the eight shots and then he looks right over. Do you think he was looking at you?
[08:05:07] SANTANA: Yes, definitely. Before -- before -- like I record the video so maybe that he felt that he can feel that someone is there, you know? Like I say, it was on the spot. There were just the three of us at that moment. And, like I say, I didn't -- I couldn't tell what was going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: The young man on the "Today" show this morning, and it was brave for him to stay there. And he was obviously afraid for his life after this because of the potential danger.
So what will it all mean now? Let's bring in Republican congressman and former governor of South Carolina Mr. Mark Sanford. Thank you very much for joining us. The big question, as horrible as the video is, as damning as it is in the instant situation, is it a reflection of an overall problem of police culture in North Charleston and maybe in all of South Carolina?
REP. MARK SANFORD, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: No, I don't believe so. And I think what we're dealing with here is a far cry from what we saw in Ferguson or other places. I think that the local response has been swift, to the credit of the committee. The solicitor's action has been swift. I mean, to have a video come out on Tuesday and immediately murder charges filed says a lot about, I think, the culture down here. Is it perfect? No. But I think in no way should one recording be an indictment on an entire force or an entire community.
CUOMO: All right, let's test the proposition a little bit, congressman, because of course when you have a video like this come out it's going to spur quick action. What else do you need? However, if you look at what happened starting with Saturday, OK? This officer puts out his statement through his lawyer. That's expected. But the authorities echo it saying he needed the one shot because the guy went for his Taser. That alone is unusually suspicious, congressman. And I'm sure you recognize that. We both know how a Taser works. We know what the level of reasonable fear of injury is. Once you Tase somebody, the Taser can't be used on the officer yet there wasn't suspiciousness at that point. Does that concern you?
SANFORD: Well, we don't know that there was suspiciousness or not. In other words, I think in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy people react as best they can. It is by South Carolina law, and I give this as a credit to the state, that an outside investigation has to be done on any police shooting. In this case it will be done by what's called SLED, South Carolina Law Enforcement Division. All of those things were concurrently beginning at that very moment. So, you know, in the immediate aftermath, you know, the police force backed the local policeman, yes, in the absence of any other evidence. But evidence was going to be on the way based on a state law that required SLED to do an investigation in the aftermath of events like that.
CUOMO: Again, not a subtle situation. A man has got several gunshot wounds in his back. You're afraid of a Taser that couldn't have hurt you. You say you only took one shot. And it does raise the issue of -- I get what SLED is. I get that it's a state department not a city one.
SANFORD: I'm not saying that I in any way, let me be clear, endorse what happened --
CUOMO: Of course not, I understand.
SANFORD: -- and believe this particular officer. I'm just saying it's dangerous for folks to look at one video and then to make interpretation as to an entire force or an entire community.
CUOMO: Absolutely understood. And that's why I'm not talking about the video. I'm talking about outside elements.
SANFORD: Hello?
CUOMO: Can you hear me, congressman? Do we still have the congressman?
SANFORD: Hello? Hello?
CUOMO: Never a good indication. We lost him. We're going to try to get the congressman back. And we'll continue the conversation and we'll talk to him about the big issues about whether or not this investigation was going the right way, should it change, and body cameras. And while we're trying to get the congressman back, give us some questions on Twitter or on NEW DAY, and we'll continue the conversation. John?
BERMAN: Other news we're looking at this morning, the Boston bomber could learn his punishment as early as next week. And 21-year- old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was found guilty of all charges against him, and now jurors, they will be tasked with figuring out if it can be life in prison or whether he should face the death penalty. For the latest let's get right to CNN's Alexandra Field who is in Boston with the latest. Good morning, Alexandra.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, John, good morning. It took almost half-an-hour to read the guilty verdict on all 30 counts that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was charged with. He was outwardly expressionless, seemingly emotionless, looking at almost no one but the attorney standing by his side.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIELD: His life now in a jury's hands. And Dzhokhar Tsarnaev showed no emotion as a court clerk read the verdict, guilty on all 30 counts against him. Survivors of the Boston bombing waited nearly two years for justice, jurors handing down their decision after less than 12 hours. The chaos at the finish line witnessed firsthand by the city's acting mayor that day. He spoke to CNN's Jake Tapper after the verdict.
[08:10:06] STEPHEN MURPHY, FORMER BOSTON CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT: I'd like to pull the switch myself because I believe he's guilty and, you know, probably he should forfeit his life. But I think that feeds right into their warped sense of what they believe is important.
FIELD: In court, jurors, survivors, and family members, some of them moved to tears listening in silence, Dzhokhar showing no sign of remorse.
KAREN BRASSARD, BOSTON BOMBING SURVIVOR: Throughout this whole thing he's been, to use my word, arrogant walking in and out of the courtroom, and completely disinterested.
FIELD: Soon the jury of seven women and five men who found Tsarnaev guilty of the attacks that left four dead and hundreds injured will decide whether the defendant lives.
LIZ NORDEN: And I can only speak for myself. I want the death penalty.
FIELD: Rebecca Gregory survived the bombing. She says there will never be closure.
REBEKAH GREGORY, BOSTON BOMBING SURVIVOR: I may be standing on one fake leg, but I'm standing here stronger than ever because someone tried to destroy me and he failed.
FIELD: The 21-year-old's attorneys will soon fight for his life arguing he was a pawn of his older brother who masterminded the attacks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FIELD: All things considered, the verdict in this case came relatively quickly with the jurors reaching consensus in under 12 hours. But Chris, we know that the next phase could be complicated. That is, again, when the jurors consider the death penalty. It's certainly a polarizing issue. They spent weeks and weeks trying to put this jury together. They worked very hard winnowing down the pool from more than 1,000 people trying to find a panel of jurors who would keep their minds open to arguments for and against the death sentence here.
CUOMO: They could get a new jury. They probably won't. But there is no question this is more complicated and difficult than it was to find him guilty. Alexandra, thank you very much.
Let's bring back Congressman Mark Sanford. We have him with us again. Congressman, thank you. I thought you were just trying to duck my questions with the old "I can't hear you" trick. But I know that was our communications. Thank you for bearing with us and staying with us. The question we were talking about is whether or not -- of course this one example doesn't mean that every other example is the same thing. But in terms of how you change culture, should you have the state police investigating other police? Lose him again? Have you still got me, congressman, or no?
Alisyn, back to you.
CAMEROTA: I think God is telling you something there and I would listen to that message, Chris, if I were you.
We do have breaking news to tell you about, though. This is out of Italy this morning. Four people are dead after a courthouse shooting in Milan. An Italian news agency says a bankruptcy judge is among the dead and the gunman was facing bankruptcy charges. The suspect was apprehended a short time after the shooting, about 10 miles to the northeast after taking off on a motor bike.
BERMAN: Iran is sending warships off the coast. President Rouhani is calling for an end to Saudi airstrikes there. CNN's Nic Robertson in Saudi Arabia with the very latest. Good morning, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed we've heard now Reuters News Agency quoting the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran. He's gone beyond what the president of Iran is saying. He is saying that civilians are being killed by the Saudi led airstrikes, that they should stop. But because civilians are being killed this amounts to genocide. He said genocide is a war crime. They should be tried by the international criminal tribunal. And he went on to say that Saudi Arabia will not win.
So what's happening here very simply put is that while the fighting continues and escalates inside Yemen, the rhetoric around the country is escalating. Both U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, the Saudis, and the Yemeni foreign minister have all said that they are fully aware that the Houthis are getting resupplied, have been getting resupplied by planes from Iran. Secretary Kerry has said that the United States will not stand by while Iran tries to expand and exert its influence in the region here.
The message from the Saudi spokesman leading the coalition here who said that those Iranian warships that are moving into the Gulf of Aden off of the coast of Yemen, that as long as they're in international waters, they're OK. But the territorial waters of Yemen remain under Saudi-led coalition control, and to come in there would be to violate that. So you're getting a real escalation of regional rhetoric around this fire -- war that is growing inside Yemen. Chris?
CUOMO: Nic, thank you very much for the latest on that.
Some lighter sports news for you. The first round of the Masters, big deal in the sports world underway. Tiger Woods first return to action for the first time in two months, right?
BERMAN: Yes.
CUOMO: But not the favorite this year, that's for sure. But we do have our favorite, Andy Scholes, with this morning's bleacher report. How do you see them lining up?
ANDY SCHOLES, CNN BLEACHER REPORT: You know what, Chris, it could go a number of ways this year. A lot of guys playing well coming into the tournament. Rory McIlroy is the favorite this year. He's trying to win his third straight major, going for what people are calling "The Rory slant." Tiger, on the other hand, his odds to win, 20 to one, so not very good. Most of us just like to see Tiger actually finish a tournament.
[08:15:05] As today, for the first time since 2004, Tiger played in the par 3 contest and he had his daughter Sam, son Charlie and girlfriend Lindsay Vonn tagging along. One eighth, Tiger nearly gets the hole in 1. Check this out, rolls past the hole. You can tell Tiger really wanted that to drop.
He would let his daughter putt that one in. That actually disqualified him from the contest.
Now, Jack Nicklaus didn't win the par 3 contest but he had the best moment of the day. On 4, the six-time Master champ plays it perfectly. Check out the backspin, it's on target and it's going to roll in for the hole in 1. Jack even predicted he'd get a hole in 1 before the round in speaking to ESPN. He may be 75 years old but the golden bear, yes, he still got it.
And for the first time in league history, the NFL will have a full-time female official next season. Sarah Thomas will be working the sidelines on Sunday. She's been officiating college games since 2007. The 42-year-old said she doesn't consider herself a trail blazer, she's just doing what she loves to do.
But, guys, whether she considers it or not, she is a trail blazer, pioneer. She's the first woman official in college football and now the first woman official in the NFL. Congrats to her. The NFL says they've got about 15 females working their way in the development program right now. So, she might not be alone. There might be more female officials.
CAMEROTA: John just gave me a look that there was a chance for you.
BERMAN: This whole NEW DAY thing. It's on Sunday, too. You could do both.
CAMEROTA: Ask Chris, I am not really qualified to be a sports anything.
CUOMO: But you love judging people.
BERMAN: Exactly.
CAMEROTA: I do. That part I would like meeting out the justice.
BERMAN: That's right. Talking about unnecessary roughness.
CAMEROTA: Whatever that means.
CUOMO: That was a double entendre, what that was.
CAMEROTA: Wow.
All right. Thanks so much, Andy, for that.
Back to our top story. The South Carolina police shooting, big discrepancies between the officers' police report, the official report, and the eyewitness video. So, we will compare those accounts and look at what they mean to the criminal case.
CUOMO: Plus, we're going to speak to the Boston official who was near the finish line when the bombs went off during the ill-fated marathon. He's going to tell us his reaction to the verdict. What is justice?
(COMMERCAIL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[08:21:24] FEIDIN SANTANA, FILMED SHOOTING OF WALTER SCOTT: I feel that my life, you know, with this information I might be like it's in danger. And I tried to -- I thought about erasing the video and just getting out of the community of North Charleston and living someplace else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: That was Feidin Santana, the man who captured the shooting of Walter Scott on camera.
This is bringing new attention to the video, and specifically the discrepancies between the video and the police incident report that was originally filed about that shooting. What do the discrepancies say about the case?
Let's bring in Mark Geragos. He's our CNN legal analyst and a defense attorney. And Van Jones, he's our CNN political commentator.
Gentleman, it's great to have both of you here to help us try to understand what we see in the video and why it does not jibe with what the police incident report was.
The video, let's start with that. Mark, I want to start with you because I want the legal perspective on this first. The video makes a very compelling case against the police officer but, of course, it's not the whole story. Something happened before that cell phone was turned on and the eyewitness says that there was a struggle on the ground. There was a struggle that involved a stun gun, a laser -- a taser, I should say.
Here is what the officer called in to 911. Listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
OFFICER: 226 to dispatch, shots fired, subject is down. He grabbed my taser.
DISPATCH: (INAUDIBLE) 223 shots fired, he grabbed your taser, subject is down.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: OK. Mark, if there was a struggle on the ground as the eyewitness has said, if there was some sort of confusion about who had the taser, would any of that have justified what we saw next in the video where the deadly force is used?
MARK GERAGOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: My position would be, no, it would not justify it, however, you've hit exactly where his lawyer is going to go. His lawyer's going to say, what you don't see in the video is what provoked all of this, that there was an attack, that he was responding to the attack because he's got to somehow shoehorn in this fleeing felon defense.
And remember something, if there was no video, and until this video came about on Monday, this officer had not been charged with anything. This case had been reported as hundreds of cases are all the time where the officer, it's almost as if there's a script. The officer feared for his safety. The officer struggled with the suspect for the weapon and the officer fired.
And, you know, in this case the report even said the officer administered CPR, which obviously did not happen. All of those things are the standard police response in a use of deadly force.
Will they be successful in this case? Well, there's been such a public outcry that I doubt it, but that's exactly where they're going with the defense in this case and that's what the police always do whenever there's a use of force.
CAMEROTA: Van, you're shaking your head.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's very true. You know, unfortunately, I spent ten years of my life, I'm an attorney as well. I was licensed by the state bar association of California to run a lawyer referral service for people who thought their rights might have been violated by the police. I'm actually very much aware of this particular pattern.
One of the things I think people don't understand is that most of the time a police report is absolutely reliable and authoritative because there's no conflict of interest. So, a young reporter like I used to be, you'd go down to the police station, you get the police blotter, you write down what happened, and you can say the police report said there was a burglary. There's no reason to doubt that.
[08:25:07] The problem is, when you have a use of force by the police, the police report transforms. It becomes a self-exonerating document.
You basically have two kids in a fight. Only one kid gets to write the report. One kid started the fight and I did nothing wrong. We now accept that in the media as if it were a normal police report.
It is absolutely the case that there is a script. The magic get out of jail free card is to say, I was in fear for my life. You look at every one of these cases, and it is literally the same language. Why? Because in our court system if a police officer says, "I was in fear for my life," that is basically a get out of jail free card.
We in the media have to stop reporting on police reports from use of force cases as if it were a normal police report. These are not normal police reports. They're usually written by attorneys. Most officers, and thankfully they do, have the right to get counsel before because they should not be forced to self-incriminate. But we should be much more discriminating about these police reports.
CAMEROTA: Mark, help us understand the Michael Brown case versus this one. Why -- what happened in the police officer's car, in the Michael Brown case, that scuffle that happened where there was an argument over the gun, why that ended up justifying what happened minutes later outside of the car feet away and why in this case if there was a scuffle over a weapon it doesn't justify what happened minutes later feet away?
GERAGOS: One simple thing, there's a videotape so you can't just accept the officer's story as everybody wants to do.
One of the things Van talks about, absent a videotape, nobody is going to touch the third rail of law enforcement and challenge what the law enforcement is. The politicians certainly aren't because they need law enforcement when they run for re-election. The judges certainly aren't because they need the same thing. Here in California we have elected -- all judges stand for election, even if you're appointed afterwards.
So, the only thing that will ever get in the way of the freight train that is law enforcement that you just let -- they get a free pass, so to speak, the only thing that gets in the way is if there's a videotape. So, you can't have this narrative that gets created after the fact. All you have to do is take a look at the police report and see that it's completely at odds with the reality of the tape. That is what always happens when the videotape comes up.
I've got another case now, similar case where the officers have testified one way. I've got a videotape, they don't know it, and I will spring it on them at trial and then watch them try to explain their way out of it.
CAMEROTA: Van, there's another discrepancy.
Go ahead. You want to make a point about that?
JONES: Well, I was going to point out something about the lack of CPR.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
JONES: People say, one officer, one bad situation, don't judge the whole department. Listen, in an ordinary situation, you would expect someone just got shot, you would expect to see the police scrambling, doing everything they can to save this man's life. There is no effort at all on the part of the officers there to save this man's life and I think that is something that speaks to a bigger problem.
CAMEROTA: In fact, I'm so glad you brought that up. That is the other discrepancy in the police report that I wanted to read to you. This one, in the police report it says, this is the testimony of a different officer, "I arrived on the scene and observed Officer Habersham was administering first aid to the driver. I exited my vehicle and assisted Officer Habersham with the first aid and CPR to the driver."
Now, when we look at the video, we do not see any CPR being administered.
JONES: That is so awful because --
GERAGOS: There's not only no CPR. The officer just created a completely false narrative but for the videotape you'd never know it.
CAMEROTA: I mean, Van, it's possible they administered CPR later.
JONES: That's part of the problem.
Well, listen, but part of the problem is you begin to have a whole culture of impunity around these incidents. Everybody begins to act in ways that are, frankly, not lawful, not professional, not acceptable because -- and that's how you know you're not just dealing with one bad officer, you're dealing with a whole culture around these shootings.
And so, you know, for me, I think a lot of people were surprised that he's sauntering over there. There doesn't seem to be any urgency around saving the man's life. This wasn't some, you know, axe murder, or terrorist, this was someone who was pulled over for a brake light.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
JONES: The police officer is not beaten to a bloody pulp. There's no reason not to try to save this man's life. There's no reason to lie about it. And yet, we have this happening all the time.
CAMEROTA: Van Jones, Mark Geragos, thanks so much. Thanks for being on NEW DAY.
Let's get over to John.
BERMAN: All right. Thanks, Alisyn.
The Boston bomber facing life in prison or execution after being found guilty on 30 counts. What do people who lived through the attack think should happen to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev?
Stay with us.
