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Hillary Clinton Campaigning in Iowa; NBC's Richard Engel Changes Kidnapping Story; Report: Reserve Deputy's Training Records Falsified. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 16, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:33:30] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

Severe storms risk today in the Midwest and Central Plains.

Let's get straight to meteorologist Chad Myers with the forecast -- Chad.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: John, yes, all the way from Kansas down through Texas, almost parts of Oklahoma, that's where the big storm will be today.

Now, the big story is that warm weather in the east, storms in the middle, and snow in the Rockies, big time like two feet of snow. Part of -- this is spring. This is cold on one side, warm on the other.

Look at the rain, we've already had down across the south for the past couple of days and more rain coming. Even a tornado warning yesterday for New Orleans. No report of any damage but they did have hail there.

Here we go for later on today. The storms fire here. The snow's in the Rockies. The rain's in the Southeast. And it's still pretty nice in the Northeast. Not as nice tomorrow because we start to see some rain coming in, but that's the precursor to warm air coming in to the northeast. Temperatures will be pushing 80 in a lot of the big cities by Saturday.

Still snowing tomorrow into Friday all the way through Friday night Rockies. Here comes the rain and warm front and warmer air. It's going to be a very nice week.

Look at that -- D.C. on Saturday all the way to 80. Guys, back to you.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you very much, Chad. We'll stick with you on that see how it develops.

Now, we have news of a new report claiming supervisors were ordered to falsify records of the Tulsa reserve deputy who shot and killed an unarmed man. "Tulsa World" newspaper reports Robert Bates, the man on your screen, received certifications for field and weapons training that he never earned. The report, at least three of his supervisors were reassigned for refusing to sign off on those certifications.

[06:35:03] Now, Bates claims he accidentally drew his gun instead of his Taser when he shot and killed Eric Harris. The sheriff's department is denying the new reports. But the story could get bigger.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Also today, definitely a day to remember and never forget Israelis and Jews around the world marking the Annual Holocaust Remembrance Day. You see the solemn pictures there, moment of silence. Solemn ceremonies in Israel to honor the 6 million Jews killed during the Holocaust. Those events designed to emphasize the importance of remembering the atrocity and passing on the memories of Holocaust survivors to their descendants.

BERMAN: Word this morning that the U.S. and Cuban governments are starting to discuss the issue of high profile American fugitives taking refuge in Cuba. One of those people, convicted murderer Assata Shakur who is granted asylum by former President Fidel Castro back in 1979. President Obama's taken recent steps to try to improve relations with Cuba, including asking to remove Havana from the U.S. list of terror sponsors.

CUOMO: All right. Sofia Vergara is in the news, but this is no Hollywood tabloid story. Former fiance Nick Loeb is battling the "Modern Family" star in court to prevent her from destroying embryos that the two had frozen when they were together.

Now, Loeb has filed suit in California trying to preserve those embryos, stating legal and religious objections. Vergara apparently refuses to agree to preserve them under any circumstances. Sources cited as close to Vergara say Loeb is fertile and could have kids with someone else. He says that's not the point.

BERMAN: Interesting legal discussion for sure.

CUOMO: It is very much. And part of this spider web of lawsuits we're seeing about viability that are testing Roe v. Wade, and testing where the country is on this.

HARLOW: Well, "The New York Post" reporting he hopes this is going to be a test case for how frozen embryos should be handled in the future. How big this could be in terms of the ripple effects.

CUOMO: We'll follow it.

HARLOW: We will.

BERMAN: All right. Thirty-six minutes after the hour.

Chris Christie turning on his charm offensive in New Hampshire. How charming was it? He says he's still relevant in the race for the White House. We'll check that and let you know what else he had to say about Hillary Clinton as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:41:12] BERMAN: So, what comes after listening? Hillary Clinton is wrapping up her campaign launch in Iowa. How did it go? Chris Christie is in New Hampshire trying to provide political proof of life. Is it registering?

Joining us to break it all down is political correspondent for "The New York Times", Patrick Healy, and Jason Zengerle, contributing editor for "New York Magazine".

Jason, I want to start with you because you wrote this month's cover story on Hillary Clinton. And it wasn't completely flattering. I think it's safe to say. I think we can all agree on that.

Let me read you a quote from the article. It says, "The glee and regret among Republicans and Democrats have been most pronounced over the disastrous press conference Clinton held at the United Nations to try to put the matter to rest. We're talking about the Clinton e-mails right there, which serve to remind them something many had forgotten, what an abominable candidate she can be."

So, you wrote that before the Iowa trip. Now that you have seen the Iowa trip, how does Iowa rank there on the gradation of what an abominable candidate she can be?

JASON ZENGERLE, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: You know, I think the question with Hillary Clinton is, does she correct? Or does she overcorrect? And in Iowa, I think she's clearly trying to make up for the mistakes she felt she made in 2008, which is being too high above the ground, haughty, entitled. In Iowa, she's trying to bring it back down to earth, be more approachable, be relatable I guess is the keyword.

I mean, the question is, did she go so far in trying to do that, that you know, she started to appear authentic in that way. So, I think that remains to be seen. We'll see how she does over the next few weeks. She's going to make such an emphasis to not make the mistakes of 2008 does she make a brand new bag of mistakes in 2016.

CUOMO: One follow on that -- abominable is usually a word reserved for snowman, you know? It means that, you know, crossing such moral revulsion by it.

Is Hillary fairly judged through the lens of how she reacts? Or do you have to balance it with the types of attacks that she takes on as well? Because that's what her side says.

ZENGERLE: Sure.

CUOMO: The e-mail server and just about everything else you put on her, nobody else would have gotten hit as hard.

ZENGERLE: I think that's right, just the lens that she's under. I mean, she's subjected to such scrutiny. At the same time, you know, she is not a natural politician. I mean, she's not someone who she's not extroverted.

CUOMO: Spent a lot of years being unnatural then?

ZENGERLE: Well, no, but she's not -- she doesn't love it seems. I mean, she loves the policy part and she loves the substantive part, but the performance part is not necessarily something that she seems to enjoy. I think a lot of politicians do enjoy that.

PATRICK HEALY, THE NEW YORK TIMES: If you think of Bill Clinton as a standard for a natural politician, she's very far away from that. I mean --

CUOMO: Is that a fair comparison though, to maybe the best at the game of dealing with the ins and outs of politics that we've seen in recent years?

HEALY: Right. He is the best at the game. But she falls into a different level in terms of her -- the scripted-ness, the cautiousness. I think that's why the road trip got so much attention, because suddenly she has the capacity to surprise us. Going into Chipotle and making headlines worldwide for ordering a burrito bowl is insane.

But when it comes to Hillary Clinton, it's surprising and feels fresh. And we like her a little bit more.

HARLOW: I mean, we definitely order the same thing at Chipotle. We learned that.

But you wrote in your "Times" piece, which was fascinating. You said, on the one side, there's a host of Republicans trying to look presidential, crisscrossing the nation in their private jets or charter jets, if you will. On the other hand, there's one Democrat trying to look normal. As we've seen Iowa play out only three days, OK, how would you assess her ability to look normal and the reaction from people in Iowa?

From the headlines, I've read a lot of people were positive about what they saw at least in Iowa in those few days.

HEALY: Sure. Some of her big donors have said this as well. She often comes into meetings with her briefing book. She opens them up, she starts reading. Then she asks questions. She goes around the table.

And people feel like, you know, she's listening and she's asking smart questions.

[06:45:00] But she's not necessarily engaging in a give and take, like an unscripted town hall where the people aren't plants asking the questions who are throwing it at them. So, she's got --

HARLOW: We didn't see that this time.

HEALY: We didn't see that. These were carefully selected people, you know, who were operating in her comfort zone talking about policy. So, normalcy I think is still --

BERMAN: Can we talk about the money question right now. Clinton Global Initiative overnight news going to limit which countries can continue to donate to the Clinton Global Initiative, six countries like Great Britain and Norway -- the massive donations from Norway.

Jason, explain if this will satisfy critics.

ZENGERLE: No, of course not. I don't think it will satisfy the critics. She's going to get criticized for whatever she does.

HARLOW: Even though she stepped down from the foundation board?

ZENGERLE: Yes. I think that is something she had to do. But I don't think that will insulate her at all from --

CUOMO: Is it another --

BERMAN: Half measure. Partial measure.

CUOMO: Or is it the thrill of the unknown? Like with the e- mail. What's there that we don't know? Who's donated that we don't know about?

HARLOW: Right.

CUOMO: Something you can satisfy.

ZENGERLE: Yes. No, there are questions that will be asked she will never be able to answer. And I think the scrutiny that she draws -- I think a question for the press is, what's fair scrutiny and what's unfair scrutiny? There are people who will never be satisfied.

BERMAN: That's the Clinton question.

Let me ask a question about Chris Christie here. In New Hampshire, you see it on both sides of Christie. You see straight talk about social security in a way you're not seeing from politicians, but you also saw him going into a diner your paper reported on brilliantly and facing -- really made fun of, flat out made fun of for bridgegate.

HEALY: Yes, my colleague captured that scene so well. I mean, the fact that he in his first trip as a possible candidate goes in there and people are already mocking him over the bridge and bringing up, well, I was stuck in that traffic.

You know, just goes to how frankly relatable that issue is. I mean, whether sort of abuse of power can lead to someone being incredibly inconvenienced, stuck in traffic. The fact is these issues are going to follow him.

And if in fact some indictments are going to come down in New Jersey, people are going to be asking questions. They're not going to quite know, well, how involved were you and how do you feel about these people? It's something he's going to have to deal with and --

HARLOW: Jason, I wonder, he was asked there in the diner about foreign policy and he criticized the Iran deal, right? The Iran framework. But then he said he's still studying on foreign policy and has been doing so for a number of months. Did you see that as a moment of authenticity or just backing away and not answering the question?

ZENGERLE: I think that is a dodge. I was talking to a Republican operative the other day talking about Christie and how frustrated he was he isn't weighing in on these issues, that he needs to read the report and things like that. People who are watching him for these things they do view it as him not actually, you know, engaging, and they're frustrated.

BERMAN: Maybe an authentic dodge.

ZENGERLE: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Jason Zengerle and Patrick Healy, great to have you with us.

HARLOW: Thanks, guys.

CUOMO: Yes, we'll do it again. We'll do it again.

Another big story making the rounds this morning, NBC News' Richard Engel, he was kidnapped in Syria in 2012. Nobody is disputing that. But some details of the story are now getting re-examined.

Was something gotten wrong? Was this another black eye for the peacock's integrity? We'll take you through the speculation and you decide.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:52:15] RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS: The kidnappers came across a rebel check point, something they hadn't expected. The kidnappers saw this checkpoint, started a gunfight with it. Two of the kidnappers were killed. We climbed out of the vehicle and the rebels took us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: You're hearing the NBC crew there, the man talking NBC's chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel, a respected journalist and recounting the moment he and two colleagues were freed from captivity in Syria back in 2012 after five days.

But now, some details of the story seem to be changing, specifically who took them, who freed them and why. We should mention right off the top, the kidnapping itself is not under question. You don't want to play with somebody being put through that kind of ordeal.

All right. But the question what does it mean for NBC News and their integrity?

Let's bring in Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES".

You're very well wired at NBC News. What is the plus/minus on this?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: This is a story that had been percolating for weeks and weeks. "New York Times" started looking into Engel's story of his kidnapping after the Brian Williams crisis at NBC, because -- you know, there were questions about other stories being exaggerated not just by Brian Williams.

But it's a different case. And you're exactly right, Chris, no one's doubting he was in tremendous danger. He and his crew were in tremendous danger in Syria in 2012.

The questions now are whether he was accurate when he described who was behind the kidnapping and what actually happened during the kidnapping and especially in the raid that freed him and his crew. There was a firefight at the time. Now, we know according to Engel and according to "New York Times" actually that fire fight it may have been a ruse. It may have been a setup in order to free them.

In fact, according to Engel it says the group that freed us also had ties to the kidnappers. So, essentially, the story we were told in 2012 was this was a group of kidnappers affiliated with the government of Assad, right? The Assad regime that has done so much damage to Syria.

Well, in fact it seems like these kidnappers had ties to the rebels, the rebel groups, the moderate rebels we were hearing so much about in 2012. So the story is told, the story has evolved, the question is why and how?

It seems like and according to Engel these kidnappers were trying to trick the NBC crew into thinking they were affiliated with Assad when in fact they were the rebels.

BERMAN: I think we have to remember there's a big difference between making something up and being wrong.

CUOMO: That's right.

BERMAN: Sometimes you can just be wrong.

STELTER: That's right.

BERMAN: You thought something happened, it didn't happen the way you thought it happened. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Richard or his team, by the way I know them, I find them to be incredibly brave aggressive journalists. No one's saying they made anything up here.

STELTER: That's right. One of the questions, one of the reasons the "New York Times" started looking into this, they had nine reporters working on this in the past month or so, is whether NBC knew at the time there were questions about the story.

According to "The Times" report overnight there were some people telling NBC -- well, we think this might not have been the Assad regime after all and those concerns were put to the side.

[06:55:06] The way "New York Times" put it the network moved quickly to put Engel on the air with an account blaming Shiite captors and did not present the other possible events.

That's not a Brian Williams type of offense, let's be very clear.

HARLOW: Right.

STELTER: And the leaders of NBC News in 2012, no longer there. They've also moved on.

But it is a curious story because it goes to show how complicated and difficult it is to be covering a story as complicated as Syria.

HARLOW: And let's remember at the time, the U.S., Turkey, the Saudis were backing the rebels. So, it's very different if it was an Assad-affiliated group that kidnapped them or a rebel affiliated group that kidnapped them.

STELTER: Because it was part of a narrative. That's right. Engel was by far the most high profile kidnapping of a journalist. It was a terrifying ordeal. I at "New York Times," us here at CNN, other outlets, kept it a secret because we did not want to put them in further danger.

Now to look back and think maybe this was not what seemed to be. That's essentially what happened here.

HARLOW: To look at the bigger context here is so important because NBC is under the microscope because of the Brian Williams saga.

Tom Brokaw coming out with only his second statement on this on Monday at the University of Chicago saying this, quote, talking about the Brian Williams issue, "This is a really, really serious case. We owe it to everybody including Brian and his family to let the process play out to hear what the financial conclusions are and then deal with it at that point."

Brian Williams in the midst of a six-month sitting out from his show.

You said "New York Times" had nine reporters on this story? That shows how big this has gotten.

STELTER: Yes, they believe there was something here to investigate because there have been questions for a long time actually in media circles about what really happened with this kidnapping at NBC. Again, no one saying that he made it up. Nobody saying he exaggerated.

But questions about who the kidnappers really were, and questions about how he was really freed? "The Times" thought they had a story here. Frankly, I was waiting for weeks for this story to come out.

But NBC did something very wise perhaps. They had Engel going re-report it himself. They had him contact sources and try to figure out exactly what happened.

CUOMO: I heard Engel wanted to re-report it himself, which also speaks to his skills as a reporter, wanting to do it. There was a lot of stink around this story. You're right, it has been around. And people trying to tie Engel to it in a way they weren't able to do with their reporting.

STELTER: Yes, let's be clear -- there's no suspension being talked about for Richard Engel. He's come out and been proactive.

Meanwhile, as you said, Brian Williams on the bench been two and a half months, another three and a half months left. The big question is, what do NBC going to bring him back? Are they going to bring him back?

This story may go away in a day or two but the Brian Williams story is basically an anchor wrapped around NBC. It's hurting the network confusion about what's going to happen to him.

I have a feeling they're going to make some sort of decision well before that August period before he's supposed to come back.

CUOMO: It's also hurting not to have him on air apparently because "The Nightly News" has slipped into second behind ABC News.

STELTER: That's true, that's true. In the ratings, seems like a lose/lose situation for everybody involved in that Brian Williams story.

CUOMO: All right. Big story here. Thank you for keeping us ahead of it, Brian.

STELTER: Thanks.

CUOMO: One of the stories we're following for you. But a lot of news. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(GUNFIRE)

BATES: OH, I shot him, I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new report calls into question whether Robert Bates should have even have been carrying a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are hundreds of hours that may have been falsified.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They got it wrong. Aaron Hernandez's words.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty of murder in the first degree.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Life without the possibility of parole.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we can all stand here and say we made the right decision.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jury found that he was just a man who committed a brutal murder.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to do more than just get by. We need to get ahead and stay ahead.

HUGH HEWITT: Let me ask you about Mrs. Clinton's campaign. Can you beat her, Chris Christie?

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: If I run, I will beat her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not good, people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to violate the no-fly zone. And I'm going to land on the Capitol mall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was fully prepared to be blown out of the sky.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning to you. Welcome to your NEW DAY. Alisyn and Michaela off.

Poppy Harlow and John Berman here with me. Thank you very much.

We have news this morning, troubling new questions about a Tulsa reserve deputy who shot and killed a unarmed black man earlier this month. A new report in "Tulsa World" says supervisors were ordered to falsify Robert Bates record, giving the 73-year-old credit for training he never received.

HARLOW: And now, the reserve deputy program, the whole program that put Bates on the streets with a gun in control of that situation is under review. This as copies of Bates' training record come to light.

Let's bring in our Ryan Young. He's tracking the latest developments for us.

What do we know at this hour, Ryan?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, there are a lot of questions about the 73-year-old. In fact, days after this shooting people had questions about his training record. I can now tell you that the "Tulsa World" report is now saying that supervisors at the county sheriff's office were told to falsify the training records for Bates. In fact, the "Tulsa World" reports that three of Bates supervisors were reassigned after refusing to sign the training documents. Now, the report does not say who asked the supervisors to allegedly falsify the records.