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New Day

Protesters Demand Answers in Baltimore; Investigation into Freddie Gray's Death; Saudi Arabia Claims Mission Accomplished in Yemen; Interview with Jen Psaki. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 22, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWD: No justice, no peace!

SUZANNE MALVEAUX , CNN CORRESPONDENT(voice-over): The voices of demonstrators united, making their point clear. Baltimore is fed up.

CROWD: Do you have no shame?

MALVEAUX: The Baltimore Police Department lined with barricades and officers, protesters standing firm with their demand for justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you take a man, put him in handcuffs, and then feel as though you want to hurt him then?

CAPTAIN ERIC KOWALCZYK, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We hear the frustration of the community. We hear the angst and the hurt in the Gray family. And we have an obligation to make sure that we are as open and as transparent with this investigation as we can be.

MALVEAUX: Freddie Gray's mother shielding her face, overcome with grief Tuesday, still unable to lay her son to rest. Police have yet to turn over his body. The family plans to conduct a second, private autopsy. "The Baltimore Sun" quoting the family as saying, "Before he died, Gray underwent surgery for three fractured vertebrae in his neck and a crushed larynx."

MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE: I don't know at what point Mr. Gray suffered the traumatic and fatal injuries. I don't know but I'm determined to get to the bottom of it.

MALVEAUX: The Department of Justice says it's now launching their own probe to determine if any civil rights were violated.

And this week, Baltimore Police Department releasing the names of all six officers who were directly involved in the April 12th arrest -- five men and one woman, their ages ranging from 25 to 45. Four of them relatively new to the force. The other two have at least 15 years of experience with the department. All six suspended with pay. Authorities stressing that the actions taken against them in no way implies any wrongdoing in the arrest.

(END VIDEOTAPE) MALVEAUX (on camera): The Baltimore Police Department promises to wrap up their investigation by next Friday.

Now, today is the day that investigators will start to interview those involved in the arrest. In the meantime the mayor says she is pushing the governor to release the body of Freddie Gray to the family as quickly as possible -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Suzanne.

Let's talk about political action here. We want to bring in Mary Washington, a Maryland house delegate representing Baltimore. And Mr. Charles Sydnor, also a Maryland house delegate representing Baltimore County. Thank you to both of you.

Does it seem obvious to you that the police, the Baltimore police, for good or bad, right or wrong, should not be leading the investigation into this situation? That it seems to be causing unnecessary delay and outrage among your constituents, Ms. Washington?

MARY WASHINGTON (D), MARYLAND HOUSE DELEGATE REPRESENTING BALTIMORE: Good morning. And thank you so much for covering the stories. And I want to extend my sympathies and our deep sorrow to the family of Freddie Gray and to all the families who are bearing the burden of excessive police force in our country, across our state and across our country.

And we as the house of delegates and members of the house of delegates and the senate have been trying to pass legislation that would reform what is called the Law Enforcement Officer's Bill of Rights, which actually provides special rights to police officers and, in fact gets in the way or delays the investigations. Under Maryland law, which is one of the strongest in the country or the most restrictive in the country, a supervisor cannot even interview an officer that is accused of misconduct.

CUOMO: Right.

WASHINGTON: And then also, additionally...

CUOMO: Right.

WASHINGTON: ... until ten days.

CUOMO: Right. It's because the union contract. There's no question there's an impediment. But Mr. Sydnor, under the existing laws, you certainly have the authority, certainly the governor does, to appoint an independent review body in a situation like this and take the onus off the police force and create the transparency that everybody says they want but seems to be in short supply here.

CHARLES SYDNOR III (D), MARYLAND HOUSE DELEGATE REPRESENTING BALTIMORE COUNTY: Good morning, as well. You're correct, unfortunately. It's my understanding that our governor has punted and said that he's going to wait and see what happens here locally in Baltimore. I believe that perception is reality. And if the people perceive that

unfairness is occurring, then I think it will be in everyone's best interest if our governor would appoint a special investigation to look into this.

CUOMO: Legislators have similar authorities, though. Obviously, you know, you're the -- you're the equivalent of the representatives of that state. You have the second chamber within your legislature, as well. But you have the ability to say, "We need an outside review here."

Because if you listened to Captain Kowalczyk last night -- we just played his sound in the piece there. I want to play it again, because I think it really captures what the frustration is here, right or wrong, about the process. Listen to it, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOWALCZYK: We're going to follow the facts where they go. The deputy commissioner said that no force was used. All of the evidence that we have at this time indicates that there was no force used. There was no bruising; there was no indication of any sort of broken bones. However, that investigation is still ongoing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:05:03] CUOMO: Now, when you hear the captain saying -- let's assume everything he's saying is in good faith and true. It doesn't hold with the citizens because of the obvious nature of how Mr. Gray looked when they were dragging him into that van. And unless they're lying about the autopsy, about the injuries that he had, Ms. Washington. It can't be that nothing happen today him. It can't be that there's no evidence.

WASHINGTON: Absolutely. Right. And all communities should feel that we have the trust and respect of law enforcement and to be able to ensure that they're going to protect and serve. And absolutely we've been relentless, decade after decade, in calling for changes and reform and police accountability.

Look, until the community has an active role in being able to be able to participate and discipline, to be able to directly participate in interview and we need to close the amount of time that is need between an officer being able to be a participant in discipline, to be able to directly participate in interviewing, and we need to close the amount of time that is needed an officer being able to -- between an incident and when a supervisor is able to actually talk to an officer. All of these are changes that not only have to happen in Maryland but are being called for across the country.

CUOMO: Now, Baltimore is Ms. Washington's specific representative hold. Mr, Sydnor, you represent it on the county level as well. Baltimore is not Ferguson, Missouri. I know a lot of people are bringing that up because of the incident and the sparking of outrage. Abd I don't think that's fair. Every situation has to be judged on its own merits. But we do see one parallel, delay is a problem. Justice delayed is

justice denied, no matter what the findings are. And that's the one concern here. Of course there's a big history with Baltimore. Of course it's very involved on many levels culturally. But don't you think the time to act has to be now? That you can't say it will, it will, it will. It has to be now, Mr. Sydnor.

WASHINGTON: No, the time to act is now. What we have to ensure is that Freddie Gray, what has happened -- there is a crisis. We have to ensure that what happens in this investigation ensures that there are no more Freddie Grays. The time is now. The nation, the city, the people in these communities who are voicing their concern, their right to protest in the streets every day, who are committed to ensuring that justice is served -- not only in this instance but that it is used as a catalyst to ensure that legislation is moved across the state, across the country. And I welcome -- we welcome the federal investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: But the federal investigation, Ms. Washington -- sorry to interrupt you. But Mr. Sydnor, directing this to you, that federal investigation is a very different and a very high bar. That's going to go to the culture of policing. It's going to go to whatever that was done that is viewed as a crime was on the basis on Mr. Gray's race. That's a very high bar, and it often sets people up for disappointment.

The question is what can you do be doing right now? Because, right or wrong, it may come out that this is an unfortunate circumstance where it winds up being no one's fault criminally in terms of responsibility. How do you speed up this process as it all stands now?

SYDNOR: Well, I'll tell you what we have done in the general assembly this past year. We passed a bill, House Bill 533, which would enable the police departments across the state of Maryland to have body cameras. Now, I'm not saying that body cameras will be the end all, be all to stop the deaths of future Freddie Grays, but what I'm saying is it would provide a lot more information to these types of incidents and the engagements between citizens and police officers than what we have currently today.

CUOMO: And we know that it's a pilot program.

SYDNOR: So I'm looking for our governor --

CUOMO: But, you know, obviously everything else --

SYDNOR: I'm looking for our governor to sign that legislation because the legislation is emergency legislation which will go in effect immediately.

CUOMO: Well, we will look into that. And we're going to keep covering this situation. Ms. Washington, a final thought please. WASHINGTON: Well, again, the final thought is that our communities

are continuing to engage, we must stay vigilant on this. And again be very clear that this is not simply about a particular case: it is about the institution of policing and ensuring that we, as citizens, are a part of that. That there are direct relationships between misconduct, the ability of police chiefs to be able to exercise discipline, the ability of communities to actually be a part of the governance and the management and how police forces are operating in our cities.

CUOMO: Understood.

WASHINGTON: And our states. And that is really the only true solution, is to make sure that the people who are being policed are a part of ensuring the public safety.

CUOMO: Understood. And thank you to both of you for being on NEW DAY this morning. We will speak again. Alisyn.

[07:10:04] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris. More news to report this morning. Saudi Arabia launching new air strikes against Houthi rebels in Yemen just hours after claiming to have ended them. Saudi Arabia says they want to focus on a political solution to the crisis.

CNN's Becky Anderson is live in Abu Dhabi with the very latest. It seems like the message out of Saudi Arabia is confusing, Becky.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes. They didn't use the phrase mission accomplished, but the Saudi defense spokesman did say that the military goals of the air operation have been achieved. Now, Operation Decisive Storm, they say, has succeed in destroying Houthi military capabilities and protecting the kingdom from any potential attack. So it seems that Riyadh is confident that it's now time to shift the focus to finding a political solution with what's being called Operation Restoring Hope.

But the reality on the ground, I think, Alisyn, is much less clear. As you rightly point out, overnight, there are reports of (INAUDIBLE) air strike. Why? Well, no official line but they have clearly failed to entirely push back the Houthis and their allies from the capital of Sana'a, nor have they been, let's say, completely defeated in Aden or Taiz. And into the vacuum, al Qaeda affiliates in Yemen have strengthened.

So why terminate this military campaign now? This is where it's slightly nuanced I think. Firstly, the entire month-long effort has drawn intense criticism even in Washington for causing civilian casualties and destroying infrastructure in what is the poorest Arab country in the Arab world. So continuing that policy wasn't sustainable. Secondly, sources I've been speaking to, say the Houthis, despite their public posturing, have indicated they'll abide by the demands of a cease-fire and return to the negotiating table.

So some thanks from the, quote, "legitimate" Yemen president last night in a speech. We will have to see though what happens next on the ground because clearly things are ongoing, Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Becky, we thank you for that.

Meanwhile, on the ocean, a show of American force on the high seas. U.S. warships patrolling the Gulf of Aden in what President Obama says is a clear and direct message to Iran against sending arms to those Houthi rebels in Yemen.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski is following those developments for us live from the White House. Michelle?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey Michaela, it's been interesting the way the White House is been framing this. I mean, they don't want to escalate anything and they won't even say what exactly would happen, what the U.S. would do if, say, today along comes an Iranian ship bearing arms for the Houthis. The White House says they don't want to speculate about it, but they've been repeating over and over again, almost like a mantra, I mean more than a dozen times in the briefing yesterday, that the mission of U.S. ships in the region is to protect the free flow of navigation and commerce.

But they also said that the international community is resolute, as they put it, in enforcing a new U.N. Security Council resolution barring the transfer of weapons to the Houthis and that the U.S. stands shoulder-to-shoulder in that mission. So making it very clear that this is going to be enforced.

Here's President Obama on the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: What we've said to them is, is that if there are weapons delivered to factions within Yemen that could threaten navigation, that's a problem. And we're not sending them obscure messages; we sent them very direct messages about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: And the White House also isn't saying exactly how they're conveying this message to the Iranians, but they say it's very clear and also that Iran needs to be part of the solution. Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Michelle, thank you very much.

We're also following breaking news. Eight days, that's how long some of these surviving migrants lasted in the Mediterranean Sea after their boat capsized. They were returned to land this morning. And these survivors and aid workers are telling CNN that it was just a horror for them, but they survived. It appears the ship set sail from Egypt. And after that, migrants were put on six different ships from one gang of traffickers to another. They were finally rescued by the Italian Navy. This comes in the wake of another weekend shipwreck that was believed to have killed 800 migrants.

CAMEROTA: Well, the volunteer Tulsa deputy who shot an unarmed man in that sting operation has pleaded not guilty. And now he's headed to the Bahamas. A judge ordered Robert Bates to return to court on July 2nd, but first approved his vacation, his request, I should say, to go on a month-long vacation. The trip drawing an angry response from the victim Eric Harris's family. They're saying that his decision to go on vacation simply sends a message of apathy.

PEREIRA: Actor Ben Affleck now says that he regrets trying to keep his family's slave owning past from being broadcast, calling the discovery embarrassing. He posted quite a long, lengthy post on Facebook acknowledging he successfully lobbied the producer of the PBS show "Finding Your Roots" to keep that information private.

[07:15:03] Some are calling it a cover-up. It was uncovered in e- mails that were revealed during the Sony hack.

CAMEROTA: Isn't that so interesting? I mean --

CUOMO: Interesting how? What do you think?

CAMEROTA: I think it's so interesting that generations later, he's not responsible, but he feels guilt and shame enough to try to cover it up.

CUOMO: Do you think he's responsible for the cover-up?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: I mean in a bad way.

PEREIRA; I think cover-up is such an egregious word though. Because it's an embarrassment. It's hard for him to even reconcile with the fact he had ancestors -- because he's clearly not that guy, right? He's clearly not that guy. And to say it's a cover-up I think is overusage of the term.

CAMEROTA: No, I just think we still feel shame about things -- people we didn't even know did in our bloodline.

PEREIRA: But that's your blood, right? I know. And that would be --

CUOMO: Well, first of all, Anderson Cooper did the same thing on the same program. And he had similar embarrassments come up in his past and he let them air, because, in part, or Anderson would speak for himself, but we often say, well, don't sanitize the past. Because that's how you want to remind it.

PEREIRA: I agree, but I'm just -- my point is, look, I have a dog in this fight to be sure, but I think calling it a cover-up -- I think it would be an embarrassment, it would horrifying to know it was in your background. Do I support he did it? I understand why, but do I support that he did it? I don't know. Anderson did the right thing.

CUOMO: A larger cause. And he's coming out now. But it's after he was caught him doing it, who knows what advice he got to come out and try to cut it off now.

PEREIRA: That's a tough one.

CAMEROTA: Let us know what you think. We'd love to hear from you on Twitter.

Meanwhile, Yemen is in turmoil and Iran is partly responsible, but the White House has been hesitant to engage Iran on the issue. Is the administration afraid that the nuclear deal with Iran would fall apart if they do? We're going to get answers from the White House next.

CUOMO: We will not be silenced -- that's coming from Dr. Oz vowing to keep working for A healthier country despite accusations that he's a fraud. He mounted his own defense on TV. And we'll let you take a look at it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:28] CAMEROTA: Saudi Arabia renewing air strikes this morning against Houthi rebels in Yemen after having ended them, they say, in favor of a political process. They also say they have accomplished their military objectives in Yemen. Can that be possible?

Let's bring in White House communications director Jen Psaki. Jen, how does --

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIOSN DIRECTOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Good morning. How does that title sound to you? White House communications director.

PSAKI: It's pretty exciting. It's great to be back at the White House. And obviously it's a beautiful day here. So looking forward to, you know, engaging over the next year and a half.

CAMEROTA: Well, congratulations on your new position.

PSAKI: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: It's great to have you there. So honeymoon over. Let's get to all of the tense topics that we have.

PSAKI: I thought it would be short, Alisyn, but go ahead.

CAMEROTA: Just a few seconds. All right. We need to talk about what's going on in Yemen and what Saudi Arabia has put out this statement that frankly seems hard to believe this morning. I mean, they put it out with their partners, including the U.S., and basically they are saying mission accomplished in Yemen. They're saying they've accomplished all of their military objectives. How can that be true when we see the chaos on the ground in Yemen?

PSAKI: Well, Alisyn, I think there's a few important things to remember. One is that we support our Saudi partners. Two, is that there's broad agreement that there's not a military solution here. We're really focused on bringing the parties together. It's a U.N.- led process. That's what we feel is the right step. That's what our partners around the world feel is the right step. And that's where we really want to put our energies at this point.

Now, there's no question Saudi Arabia is in the region, they're in the area, they're worried about their own security. And of course we've supported them with their actions. But, again, we're trying to redirect this to a political discussion here.

CAMEROTA: Sure. But let me just show you what they say in their statement that -- where they claim to have achieved their objectives, because I just want your thoughts on this.

Here's what they put out in this statement. That they believe they have prevented a takeover by the Houthis and that they have protected Yemen, they said. That they've protected their neighboring countries. They've neutralized the Houthi military. They've prevented the flow of weapons, they say, into the rebels. And they've protected Yemen's government.

I mean, Jen, just going through these one by one, preventing the flow of weapons in? Just yesterday we were reporting on how the Iranians were sending a shipload of possibly weapons to the Houthi rebels. How can you be making these claims today?

PSAKI: Well, and we have our own resources in the region for a reason, Alisyn, as you know. I'll also say though that, look, there's plenty on my plate and the plate of the White House and we're not going to get into a pattern of speaking on behalf of Saudi Arabia. Obviously, the job is not done. There's remaining instability in the region, in Yemen. There's a lot of work that needs to be done. And we're going to be doubling down and continuing to work on that with our partners around the world.

CAMEROTA: What makes you think there can be a diplomatic solution there?

PSAKI: Well, there's no other solution that's going to work. And this is a case where obviously there's a great deal of instability that's increased over the last couple of weeks, even months, that we've all been watching closely including CNN. And the fact is that we need all of the parties, all of the factions in the country, to come together.

Obviously the destabilizing activities of the Houthis, their actions are unacceptable. You've seen the U.N. actions over the past couple of days. But this is not a war that can be fought on the battlefield. This is one that we need the parties to come together. The U.N. has been very persistent in their process and we're continuing to support that.

CAMEROTA: Given the news about Iran possibly supplying weapons to the Houthi rebels, does it make you rethink the dealings with Iran in the nuclear negotiations that we're starting up again this week?

PSAKI: No, Alisyn. I think it's important for people to remember what the goal of the nuclear negotiations is and continues to be, which is preventing Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. That is good for the region. It's good for our Gulf partners. It's good for the United States. It doesn't mean we're giving rubber stamp approval to their other actions.

They continue to be a human rights violator. They continue to hold American citizens in their own country. There are still a number of issues that we have with Iran. But there's no question that preventing them from acquiring a nuclear weapon is in the interest of not just the United States but countries in the region as well. We're going to continue to work toward that at the end of June.

CAMEROTA: Jen, I want to move on to the trade deal, the Asia Pacific trade deal that President Obama is pushing. Because it's getting a lot of criticism even from members of the president's own party, from fellow Democrats. Let me play for you what Senator Harry Reid said about this trade bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:25:06] SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MINORITY LEADER: You couldn't find a person to ask this question who feels more negatively about it than I do. The answer is not only no but hell no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: It's hard to put a finer point on it than he did. He said hell no, he feels so negatively about it. How can the president feel positively about it?

PSAKI: Well, first, the president understands that trade agreements in the history of trade agreements like NAFTA, that wasn't enforceable, that didn't have labor and environmental protections, has left a bad taste in the mouth of some workers and some Democrats.

But the fact is this is a trade agreement that does have strong labor enforcement mechanism, that does have strong environmental standards. It's the most progressive trade agreement that we've ever worked on. And if we don't pursue this trade agreement with the TPP, and we need TPA in order to do that, then what we're doing is allowing China to make the rules, to set the rules. That certainly is not in the interest of American workers.

CAMEROTA: Jen, we also want your thoughts and the president's thoughts on what's going on in Baltimore. More than 1,000 people turned out because of the anger and frustration over the death of Freddie Gray. It's mysterious what happened to him. Police have not been providing answers. In the past when there have been some police situations, the president has spoken out about it. Will the president speak out about the death of Freddie Gray?

PSAKI: Well, first, Alisyn, let me say the president, as you noted, has spoken out about this on a number of occasions. I will say he's done a number of interviews and press conferences recently where he hasn't been asked either.

But this is an issue we're also working hard behind the scenes. As you know, there's a task force. DOJ announced an investigation they'll be doing. There are a lot of details we don't know here. And the fact is we've also taken action by putting money in our budget for body cameras.

The positive aspect here, if there is one, and this is a small sliver, is that because the media's talking about this, people are talking about this. This is an issue that people in communities across the country are aware of. Fortunately, in most cities, most towns, there are relationships, strong relationships between the communities and the police forces. There are some cases where that is not the case, and that's something we need to continue to work on. But I can promise you this is an issue the president's working on every single day.

CAMEROTA: And off camera, what is the president saying about this case?

PSAKI: Well, I think any time you see an individual who has lost their life or who's been injured where you don't know the details, your heart goes out to their family. You can't as a father, as he is, as a brother, as he is, as a cousin, as he is, look at a situation and not feel for the family and not want to get to the bottom of what's happening. As you know, DOJ has said they're going to be doing an investigation and obviously we'll be working with law enforcement authorities around the country on issues like this.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jen Psaki, great to see you. Happy Earth Day.

PSAKI: Great to see you, Alisyn. Thank you. You too.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: She even wore green for Earth Day.

All right, still ahead the impact of the crisis in Yemen is not limited to only that country. Could nuclear talks with Iran fall apart over differences on how to deal with the issue? We're going to debate from both sides of the aisle next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)