Return to Transcripts main page
New Day
Protests Intensify Over Freddie Gray's Death; Rubio Leads GOP Field in New Poll. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired April 23, 2015 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY.
Eleven days after the arrest of Freddie Gray, there are still so many unanswered questions about what led to his death. Baltimore police say five of the six officers involved in his arrest have provided statements. But why hasn't more information been revealed?
With us this morning, Marc Lamont Hill, CNN political commentator and host for "HuffPost Live", and Harry Houck, a retired NYPD detective.
Gentlemen, good to have you both here.
Need both of your minds on this. We need to come together and find some answers.
And, Harry, 11 days ago this all happened.
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Right.
PEREIRA: Why is it that there are so many major gaps? Why do we not have more information? Not even us. Why is it key players are aware of how much and what exactly happened in the course of that event?
HOUCK: Right. Because police departments have learned from, you know, from the past that if you rush to judgment on an investigation and if you have all this political pressure to come out with information right away, and they do, and the investigation is complete, then they come out with the wrong information.
So, a lot of people don't understand an investigation like this takes a very long time and they have to sit and wait for the facts to come in.
PEREIRA: We know five of the six officers have given statements. There's one officer that hasn't. Can he be compel today provide that statement?
HOUCK: No. He has the same rights as you and I do. Just because he's a police officer doesn't mean he's not afford the same rights as you and I. The Constitution provides that for him.
PEREIRA: We also know, and Marc, in light of what happened in Ferguson, post-Ferguson, there were many city officials gathered together as a panel to come up with sort of a playbook, if you will, of how communities and police can work together post-Ferguson. And we know that the mayor of Baltimore and the police commissioner there were part of that panel.
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely, and I think --
PEREIRA: They were part of that playbook. Yet, yet, yet, why did we see this play out the way it did?
HILL: In terms of the actual incident, I think it's because it's not about the level of choice, individual officers, individual commissioners making choices.
PEREIRA: But shouldn't some of the changes been implemented?
HILL: They should have been. But there's a culture of police and community engage one another that can't be resolved so easily. We're learning that right now.
PEREIRA: Fair enough, as you mentioned to the investigation takes time, changes also take time.
HILL: Absolutely. This is a long project comes down to policy, retraining, all sorts of stuff. And then beyond that, in terms of how we deal with the incident, you know, I think we have learned some lessons. I think the way law enforcement handled this in terms of saying, look, people have the right to protest. We're not going to hurt people. The most destructive thing I saw during the police officer press conference when they compared these people to a lynch mob.
PEREIRA: Can I bring that up?
HILL: Yes.
PEREIRA: I think we need to talk about that because there is concern. Let me bring up the full still from the Baltimore Fraternal Order of Police. And they're coming under fire for what they've said. "While we appreciate the right of our citizens to protest and applaud the fact that to date the protests have been peaceful, we are very concerned about the rhetoric of the protests. In fact, the images seen on television look and sound much like a lynch mob."
That's rhetoric of its own kind, Harry. Is that not incredibly damaging in a community like Baltimore?
[06:35:00] HOUCK: Listen, that question -- I watched that question being proposed to him. They were trying to goat the FOP on that. He clearly explained, all right, that it wasn't all the protesters. That it was just a couple who were yelling and screaming for that officer to be in prison right away. And that is not how our system works. That's what he was talking about, Marc.
HILL: It's hard to say two or three people are a lynch mob. Lynch mob conjures an image of a crowd.
HOUCK: Right, exactly. I understand it might have been a poor choice of words, but if you sat --
HILL: But it seemed very careful. I mean --
HOUCK: Yes, but if you sat and watched you knew exactly what he meant.
HILL: I didn't --
HOUCK: You knew he only meant a couple people.
HILL: I didn't walk away with that at all.
HOUCK: Remember when he said that he applauded the crowd for being nonviolent. He asked that question specifically, do you think it's a lynch mob? All right? That question was set up for him to answer a quick, yes. So they can be able to use this against him today.
PEREIRA: Do you see his point, Marc?
HILL: I do see his point. But I think careful language has to be used.
PEREIRA: Agreed.
HILL: Even if you're goaded.
PEREIRA: And we have a responsibility to use fair language because the fact is as you said, you know, there is emotion on the part of the protesters. There are angry, frustrated people in the community but at the same time, the police are the professionals. They need to choose their tone and their words carefully.
HOUCK: And I think that people should listen to their mayor. She is fantastic. She's clear thinking. She's on the TV all the time, explaining what's going on. If they would listen to her, you know --
PEREIRA: She wants answers, though, too.
HOUCK: Of course she wants answers. But you can't have answers too quick on something like this. This is a large investigation.
We need to know --
(CROSSTALK)
HOUCK: Yes, but we need to know what went on inside that van.
PEREIRA: We do. We all agree on that.
HILL: And before that van. Because I'm not willing to concede that whatever happened happened in the van. What we see on the videotape suggest things happened before that van.
PEREIRA: This is a point where you two differ. You don't actually think there was --
HOUCK: No.
PEREIRA: Did everything look okay prior to van to you?
HOUCK: No, I think he did sustain some type of injury in the takedown. How much of an injury he sustained, none of us know about.
PEREIRA: Do you think it was intentional or accidentally?
HOUCK: It might have been in the takedown, I can't tell. Did they purposely slam his head up against something? I don't think the officers did that. There's no evidence to indicate that.
HILL: Sure there is. The evidence is that he could run and after he couldn't run.
HOUCK: But the evidence does not show it was done purposely, all right. It might have happened in the takedown.
PEREIRA: We can't tell at this point. Here's a question, why would it have taken so long for an ambulance to be called?
HOUCK: That's another story.
PEREIRA: Lawrence Kobilinsky, our forensic scientists yesterday one told us why wasn't he put in a neck brace at the very least?
HOUCK: Right, because I think the officers weren't really sure of his injuries. I know from a hundred times I've made arrests that you hear this from perpetrators all the time.
PEREIRA: Right. I can't walk, I can't breathe.
HOUCK: I can't walk, I can't breathe. Many of times I've carried a prisoner into the radio car, all right, because he don't want to walk. But we can clearly see when he gets in that van and he's standing up and the officers holding him like this, one man holding him like this and he's standing on his own.
PEREIRA: All right. Gentlemen, we have to leave it here. We know there are more protests planned for today. There's one at noon and one at 3:00. We hope those rallies will continue to be heard but we hope they will continue to be peaceful.
Harry, Marc, really great to have you here with us. Thanks for being here, A-game with us always.
Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Clarity breeds consensus, Mick. That's what we have to remember.
We can take a break now. Two top Republicans are taking the gloves off. Wait until you watch Rand Paul and John McCain mixing it up, getting ugly. A fight for the soul of the right, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:42:36] CUOMO: We expect more protests today in Baltimore over the death of Freddie Gray. On Wednesday, some in the crowd were throwing bottles at police. The head of the police union comparing the protests to, quote, "a lynch mob."
The outrage is over ignorance about what happened. And we do now know five arresting officers provided statements to investigators, but no word yet on what they said.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Saudi-led air strikes pounding Houthi targets in southern Yemen. Yemeni officials say the latest strikes hit a military complex. Houthi rebels who have vowed not to surrender now calling for peace talks and Djibouti asking the world for help as Yemeni refugees seek safety there. The U.N. says the conflict has displaced an estimated 150,000 people.
PEREIRA: Back here at home, the FAA is now saying pressurization was not the problem on board a SkyWest Airlines flight diverted to Buffalo after a passenger lost consciousness. The emergency caused that plane to make a rapid descent. Some described it as incredibly scary. That passenger received medical attention on the ground before being released. The Chicago to Hartford flight took off hours later for its intended destination.
CUOMO: All right. So, how about this one, you don't ask a lady her age. But a little girl asks the first lady her age during a White House event. What happens next? Cute alert.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: How old are you? I'm 51. What does that mean? What's that look? Say that again. Give her the mic. What was that, babe? I can't hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: You're too young for 51 --
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PEREIRA: And she gets a hug. I love it.
CAMEROTA: That's adorable.
CUOMO: A politician in the making.
PEREIRA: Do you think some of that's going away now? That women can't be asked about their age? Do you think we're letting go of that?
CUOMO: Not on this set.
CAMEROTA: I don't know about that.
PEREIRA: Really?
CAMEROTA: I don't know. I mean --
CUOMO: Whenever you're asked about your age, you always say I'm younger than he is.
PEREIRA: I do. Nothing to do with me.
CUOMO: It's OK with me. It's not one of the first questions I ask.
PEREIRA: It's probably smart also.
CUOMO: I don't even ask my mom her age.
CAMEROTA: Kids get a pass.
PEREIRA: They do.
CAMEROTA: You always talk to kids and they have great questions.
PEREIRA: I had a kid tell me I look 28 the other day, and I was like come on, baby, keep going.
CUOMO: How big --
PEREIRA: Hey now. Lucky I love you.
[06:45:02] CUOMO: I guess it's not OK.
CAMEROTA: Let me segue to weather. There is severe weather we need to talk about.
PEREIRA: Yes, right here.
CAMEROTA: There's a storm cloud. But there's severe weather taking aim at the heartland.
Let's get right to meteorologist Jennifer Gray with the forecast.
How it's looking, Jennifer?
JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey, guys. Yes, we do have severe storms in the forecast. We had about six tornado reports yesterday.
This front that stretches all the way from the Northeast and drapes across the south has been one of the ingredients that we've been -- that's been sparking off some of these storms. We have very warm and moist air in place. We have that front that's sinking down to the south. And with the help of the dry line to the west it's all coming together. And we do have that risk of severe storms again today.
So, the threat will not only last today, it will be in place tomorrow and Saturday as well as this all just tracks to the east. And then we are going to expect quite a bit of rain, cloud-to-ground lightning, even hail.
So, the threat today is anywhere from Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, basically the hill country of Texas stretching all the way through Oklahoma. Moves a little bit more to the east tomorrow, however, Dallas still included in that, Shreveport, southern Arkansas and onto portions of Missouri and then even farther to the west on Saturday, which will include Atlanta, much of the South, New Orleans included in that, Nashville and Memphis.
And, guys, this is the season. We are going to really start ramping up severe weather as we get into May and June, which is the peak of severe weather season.
PEREIRA: So, what you're saying is you're going to put away the pretty sun dress and get out the severe weather gear and get ready to hit the road.
GRAY: Yes, could be the case.
PEREIRA: All right. Jennifer, thanks so much.
There's still plenty of time until the votes are cast, but one presidential hopeful has emerged as the leading candidate among Republicans. We're going to look at who voters are already backing, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:50:54] CUOMO: Legit breaking news in the 2016 race. Marco Rubio at the top of the GOP field. That's what a poll from the Quinnipiac University tells us. Not so much a jump we're seeing, as a leveling of the field perhaps. Rubio getting 15 as you see, giving the edge to the Florida freshman.
CAMEROTA: Joining us to talk about this and so much more, CNN political analyst and presidential campaign correspondent for "New York Times," Maggie Haberman, and "New York Times" political correspondent Patrick Healy.
Great to see you, guys.
Patrick, let me start with you. What do you make of Marco Rubio jumping ahead of Jeb Bush in particular? He has 15 percent in this Quinnipiac poll versus Bush's 13 percent.
PATRICK HEALY, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, Senator Rubio just announced, so there's some real excitement, especially attention he could be the first Hispanic president of the United States. You know, the degree to which he brings kind of a fresh face, an energy, maybe a real contrast with Hillary Clinton in terms of that generational change.
You know, also I think you're just seeing still these misgivings about whether Americans want a third President Bush, whether even Americans want a third President Bush. Maggie and I were in New Hampshire last weekend at a Republican gathering, 19 presidential candidates or possible candidates talking. You heard from a lot of activists.
CAMEROTA: I didn't know there were that many.
HEALY: There were a lot, Donald Trump, there were a few.
Activists who were still even if they had warm feelings about Bush number one, Bush number two, still misgivings about whether they would really want a third.
CUOMO: And, Maggie, may be legit questions about who do we want to be, right? On the Democrat side, you know, nobody's speaking up about it right now. But they only have one to really look at.
What do you see here in terms of what these level numbers may mean in terms of this search for the identity of the party?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think that when you're seeing so many people who are undecided, and when the lead candidate is at 15 percent and then followed by 13 and then 11, as you see, it's all bunched together and there's a topping out.
I think what you're seeing as pat said there were so many Republican candidates getting up and auditioning at this cattle call in New Hampshire. We're going to see that repeated over the next nine, ten months. And I think that you have a lot of activist who feel like we have an incredibly wide open field. And we have a lot of choices. We're not rushing toward anyone.
But Marco Rubio is getting a real hearing right now. As Pat also said, Jeb Bush is not clearing the field. That has really remained the story. When you compare it to what you're seeing on the Democratic side where Hillary Clinton is so dominant, it's really striking.
CAMEROTA: All right. Let's talk about some infighting in the GOP field between Rand Paul and Senator John McCain. John McCain basically was not mincing words when he said he does not believe that Rand Paul is up for the job of president.
CUOMO: That's putting it nicely.
CAMEROTA: It is.
Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Put it this way, Senator Paul is the worst possible candidate of the 20 or so that are running on the most important issue, which is national security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Hmm.
CUOMO: What did he mean?
CAMEROTA: That's putting a finer point, worst possible candidate. He's talking about foreign policy.
HEALY: Absolutely.
CUOMO: And they have a history.
HEALY: They do have a history. But you go from ISIS to Iraq or anything that might call for American intervention or possibility of boots on the ground.
And John McCain is unhappy with President Obama on a lot of this. Rand Paul he sees someone who would take America to an isolationist position.
Senator McCain also has a very good friend in the race, possibly coming into the race in Senator Lindsey Graham who's really trying to occupy that kind of foreign policy, national security lane. But you can't get sort of two more different guys than Rand Paul and John McCain on national security.
John McCain still very much sees himself as sort of the leader and the voice of the party on these issues.
CUOMO: And McCain doesn't back away from a fight.
HEALY: Right.
CUOMO: And Rand Paul picked one with him. That's what you're going to see.
CAMEROTA: First, he called him a lap dog of the Obama administration --
CUOMO: He does not forget. We've all gotten to know him well over the years. He doesn't forget.
Maggie, let me ask you something. The Clinton book was widely dismissed about the money that goes into the CGI. And then, you know, the left is pushing back hard on this book saying there's nothing there. It's not going away.
[06:55:00] Do you believe that's because of just the search for grist or do you believe that there are real questions that we need better answer to than, I know we're going to get attacked and this is the nature of politics?
HABERMAN: I think there are a bunch of stories out today including from "The Times," including "The Wall Street Journal," there was story in "The Washington Post," each one presents something a little different. And I think "Reuters" had a story this morning about the Clinton foundation re-filing a bunch of their 990s, which is their tax declarations, that a charitable group has to do.
The collective weight of this, I think, it's not going away. And remember the book you're talking about has not even come out yet. So, a lot of people don't know exactly what's in it.
I think it's going to be hard to totally dismiss until people see what it contains. The author is apparently now also incidentally going through a scrub of some sort against or about Jeb Bush.
So, I think that you are going to see this continuing for a while.
CAMEROTA: That's interesting.
The book is called "Clinton Cash," Patrick. And the headline from it -- or at least what the author contends -- is that the Clinton Foundation took inappropriate, basically, money, fund raising, while Hillary Clinton was head of the State Department. And that policy was affected as a result.
Has anybody been able to connect those dots?
CUOMO: And they got paid, and that the Clintons got rich off it.
HEALY: And Clintons personally got quite wealthy.
I mean, look, I think this is what's going to be happening over the next ten months as Hillary Clinton is possibly in a vacuum as the likely Democratic candidate. You're going to see reporting after reporting to look at whether the author of this book who has ties to the right who can be portrayed by the Clintons as a partisan, maybe hatchet man. You know -- but actually may have turned up, you know, some real connections there.
You know, "The Times" -- as Maggie said, "The Times", "The Post", "The Wall Street Journal" are all sort of looking at this to see things we know the Clintons have gotten very wealthy over the years giving speeches both abroad and at home. The Clinton Foundation has received money from overseas certainly after Secretary Clinton left office. I mean, the degree to which policy, you know, the degree to which policy was affected though I think --
CUOMO: Examples that have come out so far in your paper were not that impressive.
HEALY: No. Right. They were not smoking guns. I mean, I think the hope on the Republican side isn't so much that Hillary Clinton was dumb enough to, you know, rejigger policy in return for money. I don't think anybody believes that.
I think it's more to try to reinforce this perception that the Clintons are different than the rest of us, that the Clintons care about money both sort of personally and for their foundation. And then maybe it leads to some kind of ethical issues that might echo with 1990s ethical issues that might make people uncomfortable.
CUOMO: Patrick Healy, Maggie Haberman, thank you very much. To be continued.
This is one big story this morning, but there's a lot of news. Let's get to it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we don't know is what happened inside the back of the van.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family has no confidence that the police can actually investigate the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether you believe he's faking or not, you have a duty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He simply didn't want to walk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Saudi-led forces are pounding southern Yemen with air strikes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Houthis should be under no illusion that we will continue to use force.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They've got a 50/50 chance of making the sea crossing. They absolutely know that they're gambling with their lives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Identifying the human traffickers, smugglers, is a hugely important message for the Italians to be sending.
CUOMO: Why should Hillary Clinton be president?
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMEROTA: Good morning, everybody. Welcome to your NEW DAY.
Protests are intensifying in Baltimore over the death of Freddie Gray who died after being taken into police custody. Hundreds taking to the streets, some throwing bottles at officers, but mostly peaceful. More protests set for this afternoon.
CUOMO: We now know five of the six officers involved in the arrest did give statements to investigators and a while ago. One has chosen to stay silent. The question is, what is in those statements?
Let's begin our team coverage with CNN's Suzanne Malveaux live in Baltimore -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, those protests are really growing in intensity day by day. We have seen that. We also expect they're going to grow in size.
This afternoon, it's expected that thousands of people will be here outside of city hall. The family pastor as well as the mother and the stepfather of Freddie Gray, they are all asking questions demanding answers to what happened to him just about a week ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Protests continuing into the night in Baltimore, after another tense standoff with police.
UNIDENTIFEID MALE: Watch yourself. I got you.
MALVEAUX: Hundreds of protesters demanding answers in the death of Freddie Gray.
People frustrated, filling the streets, blocking traffic. Some even laying down on the middle of the intersections.
This as new video shows Gray minutes after his initial arrest, the last time he was seen publicly and alive.
