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Causes of Amtrak Train Derailment Examined; Implementing Safety Systems to Prevent Train Crashes Discussed; Signs for Trouble for Kim Jong Un? Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 14, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:06] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The big question this morning is of course why, but it come on multiple levels. Why, obviously, was the train traveling 106 miles per hour? That's more than twice the speed limit as it approached this 50-mile-per-hour curve. That leads us to why is the engineer, Brandon Bostian, a 32-year-old New Yorker, refusing to talk to investigators now, and why his lawyer says Bostian doesn't even remember the crash even though investigators say it was certainly he who applied to emergency break.

And then, perhaps the biggest why. Why was a trusted rail safety system not installed in this part of the track? Officials say without qualification, even if it is human error it would have prevented this crash. Those are just some of the questions that we're going to bring you, and we're going to work very hard to get answers this morning as crews are still working to locate several people unaccounted for.

Here's what we know so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER, (D) PHILADELPHIA: No way in the world a regional train should be doing 106 on the curve.

CUOMO: Speed, excessive and deadly speed, may be what catapulted hundreds of Amtrak passengers, sending seven train cars and the engine off their tracks Tuesday night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were all flung up against the window.

GABY RUDY, SURVIVED AMTRAK CRASH: There were people catapulted up into the luggage bins.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was hit by a flying seat.

CUOMO: Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter blaming the engineer at the helm, 32-year-old Brandon Bostian.

NUTTER: Clearly it was reckless.

CUOMO: Nutter responding to speculation that the engineer might have been speeding to make up for time.

NUTTER: I am sure they would not have minded being another 20, 25, 30 minutes late as opposed to dying unnecessarily in a train wreck. ROBERT SUMWALT, NTSB BOARD MEMBER: You're not going to hear the NTSB

making comments like that.

CUOMO: Still conducting their preliminary investigation, the NTSB is taking issue with the mayor's comments, calling them inflammatory. But they do agree Bostian hit the emergency brakes too late.

SUMWALT: In the next three or four seconds, the speed of the train could only decrease to 102.

CUOMO: This surveillance footage along with the initial examination of the data reveal the train was traveling at 106 miles an hour, twice the appropriate speed entering the sharp turn.

SUMWALT: He was already in the curve at this point. You are supposed to enter the curve at 50 miles per hour.

CUOMO: Bostian spoke to Philadelphia police the night of the crash, and according to the law enforcement source told them he couldn't recall his speed. His lawyer says he doesn't even remember the crash himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He remembers going through that generally, has absolutely no recollection of the incident or anything unusual.

CUOMO: Police now in the process of obtaining a search warrant of the engineer's phone records to determine if he was distracted during the time of the crash.

Lawmakers and critics also saying even if human error is the cause, this crash races issues about safety systems that still are not in place and could have saved lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: So you have two big components here, what the engineer was doing and then what is going on with the system over all that allowed this to happen no matter what the engineer was doing.

Let's bring in CNN's government regulation correspondent Rene Marsh. She's digging down on these. Rene, what do we know?

RENE MARSH, CNN GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, we know that this stretch of traffic you are looking at live here, and you can see work is underway right now this morning, we know that this special technology, specifically an automated speed control system, was not installed here. We know that on the northeast, along the northeast corridor, the technology exists, but, again, not in this section where the derailment happened. And the NTSB saying it would have made all of the difference.

Now, in plain terms, this technology uses GPS wireless radio and computers to monitor the train, and when it is going too fast, the technology is able to slow down the train and even stop the train. We do know that Congress has mandated that all of the nation's railways have this technology by the end of 2015, so again we know there are some parts that have it, but we know this section did not. The question is, why not? We have reached out to Amtrak and have not heard anything from them at this point. Chris?

CUOMO: Well, here's what we know, though, Rene. We know that this industry is lobbying very hard right now to get the deadline for putting in the safety systems extended. They want more time, they want more money. Is that the answer? That's not what the NTSB was suggesting this morning. They were saying that this safety system needed to be in place because it would have stopped the accident no matter what they find out about the engineer.

So why isn't it in place? Would it have made a real difference, and where do we go from here in terms of avoiding this?

[08:05:01] CNN aviation analyst and former managing director of the NTSB we have with us, Mr. Peter Goelz. Peter, thank you for joining us. Let's start with the specifics about what the NTSB and other investigators are looking at specifically with the engineer and the speed. Why isn't it as simple as he was driving too fast, and that's the answer?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it may end up being that. But they need to eliminate every other possible operation that was going on. The engineer could have been distracted, they'll find out. He could have had a health event, they'll find out. If he's been treated, they'll check him for what kind of drugs he was taking. Was he on certain kinds of medications that might have contributed to his distraction or to his dozing off or to not being attentive? They will slowly but surely eliminate every option on what triggered his missing the turn.

CUOMO: And then we have the issues of what is in place and what isn't in place. So let's start with what is in place. We know there are a lot of cameras involved here, and is it true that there may be one that was showing the forward perspective, and what will that mean in the case?

GOELZ: There is a forward-looking camera on the Amtrak trains, and that will show the harrowing picture of the engine leaving the track. What we don't have is an inward facing camera on the cabin, and that's been recommended but it's controversial. The engineers don't like it. It's like a camera in the cockpit in aviation. But if you have an inward-facing camera as well, you can see precisely what the engineer is doing and when he was doing it. It's needed.

CUOMO: They don't like it kind of coaxes a visceral response of too bad. Obviously with all these accidents we've reached a point where we need to know what is going on whether it makes you comfortable on not.

One more question about this. We do know that the speed of these trains is supposed to be reduced in this area, let along on this curve which had a 50-mile-an-hour rate. We also know that this train wasn't that far out of the 30th Street station. How does that play into your understanding of how fast the train should have been going? GOELZ: Well, it's clear that he accelerated greatly leaving the 30th

Street station. He was approximately 11 minutes out of the station, he was going over 105 miles per hour. It underscores the issue of the need for a universal positive train control. On the line, the northeast line, it was not there in that section of track, could be related to interoperability. There is not an off the shelf PTC system. Rail systems have spent $6 billion of their own money in the last four or five years trying to get these systems installed. They are complex and difficult. In some cases the FCC has not been helpful because they need bandwidth to run the communications along the track. It's a complex issue and it's an expensive one.

CUOMO: I know the problem is, though, Peter, it has to be done. It saves lives. And this industry deals with complex and expensive problems all the time. I know you are not an apologist for the industry, but you also get to those points in time where it's just enough is enough. You have a spike in derailments, you have people dying when it doesn't have to happen.

However, there are those who will hear this conversation and say I don't care. You just asked for more money in the government and I am tired about it. This is all about what the engineer does and nothing else matters. Infrastructure is irrelevant in this situation. What do you say?

GOELZ: That is the debate. What do you do with a low probability, high consequence event like this? Do you put your resources to try and mitigate it, or do you look for higher probability events that may not have as disastrous an occurrence that will make the trains, you know, broadly safer and broadly more on time. It's a very tough debate. But I have to say that after the Metro Link accident in California, they put the resources into that system. They did not flinch at making it safer, and it's working.

CUOMO: And a simple yes or no. The NTSB guy running the investigations stood next to me this morning and said whatever we find out engineer, the idea that infrastructure didn't matter is silly to the point of stupidity, because if they had the PTC in place, no matter what the engineer was doing, this would not have happened. Yes or not, is that true?

[08:10:00] GOELZ: Absolutely true, dead on. Rail systems are making decisions based on limited resources. Do I put the money here? Do I put the money there? There is not enough money being allocated to our infrastructure commuting systems or freight systems to keep them safe in the future.

CUOMO: And in a balance on that in the political debate will be, they are getting billions. How much they get and how well they spend it needs to be balanced as well, and that's going to drive the debate. Let's see if we get answers, because certainly this is a horrible way to learn a lesson of what should have been done already. Peter, thank you very much for your perspective, appreciate it.

Now, the urgency certainly isn't about politics. It's about the people. There were victims here, hundreds and hundreds of them. Seven people lost their lives, so many went to the hospital. Many of them are still there. And then there are those who are simply unaccounted for. And that's what matters most, those people. So let's get to CNN's Sunlen Serfaty. She's outside Temple University Medical Center. It's one of the places that people are still fighting here in Philadelphia. Sunlen?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Chris, there are still an untold number of people left unaccounted for, and according to the "Philadelphia Inquirer," they report this morning that that number may be as many as 12 people still missing. Among them is Robert Gildersleeve. He is 45 years old, a father and executive from Baltimore. His family is still looking for him this morning.

And we are also starting to learn more about the lives lost. Five of the seven killed have been identified, included among them is Dr. Derrick Griffith. He was a dean at City University of New York, and he just earned his PhD just last month. Also, 39-year-old Rachel Jacobs is from New York, the mother of a two year old son and a chief executive of a small technology firm.

We're here outside Temple University Hospital here where they had seen 54 patients. That number has now dropped 22 remain hospitalized. One person was released in the early morning this morning, Chris, but eight people are still in critical condition, still fighting for their lives. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Sunlen, thank you for the information. We will stay on that, because we have got to see what happens with those people, and we know their families want people to know the results as well.

So you have the people involved. You also have the practicalities of what happened here in Philadelphia. Behind us right now is a very active crash scene. All the tracks are twisted into ribbons, so of course train activity in the northeast corridor, which is what they call the area between New York and Philly is going to be greatly compromised. So we have CNN's Brian Stelter at New York's Penn Station with the reality of travel this morning. What do we know, Brian?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The reality is it's frozen, the word is "frozen," Chris. For these people it's an inconvenience not a tragedy like for the people who were actually on the train a couple days ago. You look at this board here, local trains are running, but the canceled trains are the ones that are trying to get to Washington. It is very hard to get from New York to Washington or vice versa today. And frankly some people are walking by, a lot less crowded here then normally would be on a weekday morning.

You have been here before, Chris. You know this place can be packed with people on the morning rush hour and the afternoon rush hour. But and instead of planes people are relying on buses and on flights instead.

Look at these numbers because you can get a good sense of how important this rail system is economically. By one estimate $100 million a day in economic impacts are caused whenever there is a disruption like this to the northeast corridor. That is because 750,000 passengers use this system every day. It is by far the busiest rail line in the United States. There are a couple rail lines out west that only have a fourth as much traffic, and those are the next biggest. We talk about Amtrak, it is a nationwide network, but the northeast corridor is the key. It is really the artery, and right that artery is severed. Amtrak has given no indication for when service will restored here. It sounds like it will not being before this weekend, and that's people are making alternative plans, whether that's renting a car, taking a bus, or trying to get on a flight that are all of a sudden very expensive because of supply and demand. Chris, back to you.

CUOMO: Brian, thank you very much. We'll keep updating you with the latest this morning on what's going on in Philadelphia and the implications that are broader. But there's a lot of news, so let's get you to Michaela back in New York.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris, thanks so much. We start overseas. Heavy gunfire is being reported this morning in the African nation of Burundi. The country's military chief announcing a coup. However, a presidential spokesman is dismissing that as a joke. The government denies that it's under threat despite those reports of fighting, so it's unclear if Burundi's president has been able to return home from a summit because the international airport is closed.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And the Vatican for the first time set to recognize the state of Palestine in a formal treaty. The largely symbolic move comes days before Pope Francis will meet with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. The treaty covers the activities of the Catholic Church in the Palestinian territories.

[08:15:04] Supporters of Israel called a move premature, saying it hurts efforts for negotiated peace.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Frightening moments in Manhattan. The NYPD releasing disturbing surveillance video that shows police shooting a hammer-wielding suspect who lunged at an officer. That suspect, 30-year-old David Baril, has a history of illness and a lengthy rap sheet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA (voice-over): A vicious attack on New York's crowded streets. Watch this hooded man in a face mask, lunges at two NYPD cops. Swinging at female officer, Lauren O'Rourke, chasing her into a busy intersection and beating her with a claw end of the hammer.

The attacker appears to land three blows, one on the back of Officer O'Rourke's head as she falls to the ground, her partner draws his weapon firing at the man four times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a perp down.

PEREIRA: The entire ordeal over in less than three seconds. Police recovering a hammer used in the assault at the scene. BILL BRATTON, NYPD COMMISSIONER: Officer Casaigne quite possibly

saved the life of his partner.

PEREIRA: The suspect identified as Bronx resident David Baril was wanted since Monday in other hammer attacks that gripped terrified residents. This video shows him coming up behind a woman and violently striking her in the head before running away. Police say the suspect is paranoid and has schizophrenia and that he checked himself out of a mental hospital months ago.

Baril's former neighbors say they are worried that it was just a matter of time before something like this happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like a smoking gun. You know, you never knew what was going to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am glad they got him off the street before he could kill someone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: That young man has a string of arrests including possession of a razor. He was wanted for allegedly jumping a fast-food counter, trying to attack a server. We know that the suspect has been transported to a local area hospital. He's in stable condition. He's going to face many charges because there are four or five incidents in the New York area that here he is suspected of wielding the hammer and attacking women.

CAMEROTA: It raises questions, of course, about the mental health system. That one person caused chaos in Manhattan yesterday. We were caught in the traffic. There was a ripple affect from that one incident for blocks and blocks and blocks blocking traffic in Manhattan.

So, we'll update you on that when we have more.

Also, we do have many more developments out of Philadelphia and the Amtrak crash. We'll get back to that in a moment.

Also, why is Kim Jong-un appearing to kill off his country's leaders? We'll talk about that bloodbath with an expert on the reclusive country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:21:08] CAMEROTA: The State Department says it cannot yet confirm the public execution of the North Korean defense secretary. But the reports out of South Korea have many questioning what's going on inside Kim Jong Un's regime.

Let's bring in Gordon Chang. He's author of "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World."

Gordon, great to see you. So, these reports come out of South Korea, and reportedly, Kim Jong- un, publicly and dramatically executed his own defense minister with anti-aircraft guns reportedly in front of hundreds of people. What's going on?

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "NUCLEAR SHOWDOW": Well, Kim Jong-un is trying to consolidate power and obviously he is not successful, because if they were successful, there wouldn't be this continue bloodletting. In February, we heard the reports of a four-star general also being executed. And apparently, there has been about 85 to perhaps 100 senior officials killed since Kim Jong-un took power in December 2011.

CAMEROTA: Eighty-five to 100 senior officials being killed. I mean, this makes him sound like a homicidal maniac. Is he unhinged?

CHANG: Well, I don't know if he's unhinged. But, you know, the toll was even worse, because if you add in June, midlevel officials, we're talking about somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 to 500 people have lost their lives since December 2011. Clearly, this purge, this series of purges has just created a dynamic of his own and it's very difficult to stop.

CAMEROTA: If he is not unhinged, what is he doing? Why does he hate or mistrust the people around him?

CHANG: Well, he came into power really with very little grooming. His dad who took over before him had about two decades of grooming. He's had only had two years, and he is very young, which is a disadvantage in a Confucian study.

CAMEROTA: Because he doesn't have wisdom?

CHANG: He doesn't have wisdom. He doesn't have the background to sort of balance the various elements of the regime. There is the party. There's military. There's security services. He has to keep them in balance and he hasn't been able to do that.

CAMEROTA: There was seven pallbearers at his father's funeral, and all of those have met sort of dubious ends. I mean, what became of those seven pallbearers?

CHANG: Well, some were executed and some were probably shuffled off to the side, we don't know. But the point is, Kim Jong Un was trying to make space so he could install his own officials who were loyal to him. He obviously hasn't been able to do that. There has been so much shuffling at the top of the Korean peoples' army, which is a real sign of problems. He can't find a general that he can trust.

CAMEROTA: You can dismiss it as a North Korean problem or a South Korean as well problem. But what effect does this have on the U.S.?

CHANG: Well, we have 28,500 troops in South Korea. We have about 60,000 troops in Japan. And North Korea now has a missile that can take a nuke and land it in northern part of California, that's according to the commander of NORAD a couple of weeks ago. So, clearly, this affects us. CAMEROTA: Is there any way that he will be taken out? Given all the

blood letting, how long will generals of his army stand for what he's doing?

GORDON: Probably not too much longer. And the point is, you know, he's raised the cost of losing a political struggle. And now, everybody has an incentive to fight to the end and therefore tear the system apart. So, Kim Jong-un is at risk, too, and we know he's pretty sensitive about this because there are parts of the country he won't travel to. So, you know, he obviously is feeling very insecure. He didn't go to Moscow for the 70th anniversary parade because I think he was worried about a coup taking place while he was gone, about not being able to come back or being killed when he came back.

CAMEROTA: So, if he's killed or there's a coup, then what happens in North Korea?

GORDON: Then, all bets are off. I think that essentially, the Chinese want to have a collective leadership in Pyongyang because they got one at home. But you can have disorganization and you can have various factions of the military with weapons of mass destruction under their control.

[08:25:05] This is a nightmare scenario because we don't know where a lot of these nukes are actually kept, and, of course, North Korea has large stocks of chemical and biological weapons as well.

CAMEROTA: That is the nightmare scenario. So, is he just paranoid? Is that what we're seeing? Or does he have a good reason to not trust people that were in his father's regime?

GORDON: Well, I think he's probably got some good reason, but what he has done is created the instability by killing more people, because at that point, you know, blood demands blood and this dynamic now is very difficult to stop. We saw that in the Stalinist era where once you start to kill people, you cannot stop because there is no last person to shoot.

CAMEROTA: That's so chilling. You can't stop because there is blood on your hands and everybody knows that you've killed people. So, you have to keep killing them?

GORDON: And every relative and every ally now has incentive to somehow sideline Kim Jong Un, either by executing him or by pushing to the side?

CAMEROTA: Gordon Chang, your book is "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World", it's great to get your insight even though it's terribly troubling.

Thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

CHANG: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's go back to Philadelphia where we find Chris with all sorts of developments on the train derailments. Hi, Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, how are you doing, Alisyn?

So, the big word down here is that this was about speed. Why was the train going twice the rate of speed it was supposed to in the curve and how does the engineer function into that?

And for many, that's the end of the analysis. But not for investigators, and they are saying there was something that could have stopped the crash but it didn't. Why not? We have the answer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)