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Mysterious Clue in Mansion Murder Mystery; Demilitarizing Police or Politicizing Cop Safety?; Texas Police on Alert for Biker Gang Violence. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired May 19, 2015 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00] SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The courts have now said the bulk collection of records is illegal, they should stop immediately.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: If you're allowed to filibuster, you plan to talk for 13 hours or whatever it takes.
PAUL: Well, nobody can predict how long you can talk, but I plan on doing everything humanly possible to try to stop the Patriot Act.
CAMEROTA: We had your lovely wife, Kelly, on NEW DAY a month ago. And somehow, the subject of your hair came up.
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL: Oh, no.
CAMEROTA: Yes. Oh, yes.
PAUL: Oh, no. Say it isn't so.
CAMEROTA: She revealed that you cut your own hair. Is this a taxpayer saving cost consciousness on your part? Or what is that about?
PAUL: Probably more time saving than anything else. That's why I have an excuse if people say, "Oh my God, look at his hair" -- I can say, well, I didn't have time to go to a regular barber, I just had time to trim it myself.
But a little of both. Sometimes I get a professional trim and sometimes it's whatever I get a chance to do.
CAMEROTA: Do you think America is ready for a curly haired president?
PAUL: You know, we'll see. But one of the funniest things I ever had is had a woman come up to me and grab me by the hair and said, oh, I just wanted to see if it's a toupee or not. I said, hey, lady, I'm just having a bad hair day, OK?
CAMEROTA: Well, that's great. Senator Rand Paul, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY. We really appreciate sitting down with you. PAUL: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: You know, I will point out we do currently have a curly haired president.
CAMEROTA: Yes, who keeps it much shorter.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He doesn't wear it curly.
PEREIRA: Right. But still is curly. It's in your soul, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: I appreciated him talking about that. He said that's happened more than once people have come up and tugged on his hair more than once he's had to deal with that.
CUOMO: People need guidance which is why we need good leaders.
How hungry do you think he is?
CAMEROTA: I think that he's serious about it. So I don't know about hunger in the belly, it's hard to read because he's a sort of controlled person, but I think he's very serious. And he's clearly thought out all the positions. I mean, he has an entire book that he's basically a position paper on everything that he stands for. It was interesting to hear him talk about how the difference in how he would fight ISIS. I mean, he basically said he would create a Kurdistan, and that he would trust the Kurds to fight against them.
PEREIRA: Is it a machine he comes with? Oftentimes politicians roll with a machine. Did you feel a sense of that?
CAMEROTA: He has handlers, but it wasn't a huge juggernaut. But, yes, it was interesting. Just interesting to get his take on this.
PEREIRA: Great job.
CAMEROTA: If you want to read more about Senator Paul's positions do so in his new book. It's called "Take a Stand: Moving Beyond Partisan Politics to Unite America".
PEREIRA: All right. Great job.
CAMEROTA: Thanks.
PEREIRA: All right. President Obama moving to demilitarize police departments across America, banning armored vehicles and weapons of war. But is this new initiative going to put cops at risk? We'll take a look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:36:40] PEREIRA: Some headlines for you now.
Concern is growing in Texas that two rival biker gangs could be preparing for an all-out turf war. Police are now on alert after receiving word that the Bandidos and Cossacks could have been told to arm themselves and travel to north Texas following that shootout on Sunday that left nine dead in Waco. Police will be back at the scene this morning. CNN has now learned that as many as four of the bikers may have been killed by police gunfire.
CUOMO: That train in Philadelphia was not hit by gunfire. This according to federal investigators after examining the windshield of the wrecked locomotive. But the FBI and NTSB still don't know for sure if the train was hit by anything. But they're not ruling it out because of reports of chatter during the trip between crews. The actions of the engineer still their focus, this as another Amtrak employee files suit against his employer for negligence.
CAMEROTA: The espionage trial for a "Washington Post" reporter jailed in Iran is set to begin next Tuesday. Iran's judiciary spokesman says court proceedings for Jason Rezaian will begin May 26th. He's "The Post" bureau chief in Tehran, arrested last July and the charges were only recently revealed. The paper of the State Department vehemently denied the allegations against him.
PEREIRA: The president has finally joined Twitter using the handle POTUS. Before he used Barack Obama and would put B.O. if he was tweeting otherwise his staff handled it. The president says this POTUS handle is a new way to engage directly with the American people.
Want to see his initial tweet? "Hello, Twitter. It's Barack, six years in they're finally giving me my own account." Well, that led former President Clinton to tweet, "Welcome to Twitter, POTUS. One question, does that username stay with the office? #askingforafriend."
Not to be outdone, President Obama responded to Clinton saying, "Good question, the handle comes with the house. Know anyone interested in @FLOTUS?" Aka the first lady.
It's hilarity, very good point. If Hillary Clinton were to becomes POTUS -- does he have to be MLOTUS (ph)?
CAMEROTA: Wow. I don't know.
PEREIRA: There's a lot of Twitter questions to be had here.
CAMEROTA: Are they going to talk to each other on Twitter and we all kind of eavesdrop? I kind of like that. The two presidents --
PEREIRA: Maybe some of the others will join in.
CUOMO: I'm sure it will devolve into random conversation that isn't well policed and thought out beforehand.
PEREIRA: Did you see the game?
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: That's not going to happen. CAMEROTA: No?
CUOMO: That's not going to happen.
PEREIRA: Enjoyable.
CUOMO: All right. What do you think? Tweet us or actually tweet them.
So, serious news for you this morning: a corporate executive, his wife and their 10-year-old son all killed along with their housekeeper. Their $5 million mansion in one of Washington's wealthiest neighborhoods set on fire. People thought it was just a fire and unfortunate. Now, they believe it's a homicide. Why? We'll tell you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:43:27] CUOMO: Investigators are examining this mysterious text and a voicemail this morning linked to a deadly fire at a Washington, D.C. mansion.
We have CNN's Gary Tuchman tracking the latest developments for us on it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the middle of the day. Fire breaks out in a home in one of Washington, D.C.'s most posh neighborhoods. Blocks away from the vice president's residence and embassy row.
DISPATCHER 1: 3201 Woodland Drive (INAUDIBLE)
DISPATCHER 2: There's fire in the attic.
TUCHMAN: Four people are found dead inside, tragic, and as it turns out very sinister.
POLICE OFFICER: The fire appears to be intentionally set.
TUCHMAN: But before it was set, police also say three of the four victims had suffered blunt force trauma. It has been declared a quadruple homicide. The victims, 46-year-old Savvas Savapoulos, a CEO of company called American Iron Works. His 47-year-old wife Amy, a Washington philanthropist and socialite, their 10-year-old son Phillip, and a woman named Veralicia Figueroa, their 57-year-old housekeeper.
Veralicia Figueroa was one of two family housekeepers.
NELITZA GUTIERREZ, HOUSEKEEPER: I almost had a heart attack. It's very hard to believe.
TUCHMAN: The other housekeeper is Nelitza Gutierrez. About three hours before the fire broke out she receives this text from Amy, it reads in part, "I am making sure you do not come today." And the day before she received a text from Savvas telling her not to come the next day because his wife is sick.
GUTIERREZ: Sometimes you never understand or this thing happen, but I'm lucky that I'm still here.
[06:45:03] TUCHMAN (on camera): Police say no evidence was found of forced entry into this home. But was anything taken? Was it ransacked? Because of the fire damage, authorities say they don't know.
(voice-over): So what is going on here? Were the voicemail and text sent out under duress? And why are police not saying which three suffered blunt force trauma and which one did not and what that all means?
Police are staying relatively quite. But the D.C. police have released this video of what they call a person of interest. It is literally and figuratively a shadowy image of somebody walking behind the building after supposedly taking the Savapoulos Porsche 911 from the crime scene. The car was found ditched in a Maryland church parking lot where it was torched.
Sifting through the trash is meticulous. The odor of the smoke still sifting through the neighborhood obvious, as police continue working to solve what is a deadly mystery.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PEREIRA: I remember when we first reported that fire sounded like it was a terrible accident. My goodness.
CUOMO: Gary picked up on the main thing for investigators right now which is those texts and voicemail come from the victims. So that is confusing to them. It's not like they received texts from someone else saying you're not showing up for the meeting this morning.
CAMEROTA: If it was really sent from the victims, unless somebody had their cell phone.
CUOMO: That's right. That's going to be the confusing part for that. We'll stay on it.
PEREIRA: Quite a mystery.
President Obama says military gear makes police look like an occupying force. But does demilitarizing local police help to prevent violent protests like we saw on Ferguson and in Baltimore? We'll debate. You decide.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: All right. So this matters. We're all talking about the culture of policing and what we have to do. And here's the latest: the administration is banning certain military
equipment from local police departments. The administration says the gear makes police operate like an occupying force. Critics say it is taking away necessary equipment that can jeopardize safety.
One of those critics is law enforcement analyst and retired NYPD detective, Harry Houck.
Also joining us CNN political commentator and host for "HuffPost Live", Marc Lamont Hill.
Let's set the table, Harry. You are not the military, you are not the police. You do not need military type equipment. It sends an intimidating message and starts our trouble.
You don't need it. Let's take it away.
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Where does it start trouble? I've never seen that. A talking point just pulled out of the air saying if police officers have military equipment that it starts some trouble. I think the president's more worried about hurting somebody's feelings than the lives of police officers.
And listen, first of all, I've never seen cops with bayonets or grenade launchers. I've made some phone calls. Nobody knows anybody with grenade launchers or any bayonets.
The one thing I'm worried about in this whole comment here was basically that no riot equipment will be transferred to police. And if it is, they need to provide additional certification, insurances that gears will be used responsibly.
When was the gear never used responsibly by the police? When were the police never trained by using this type of gear?
So as far as I'm concerned, those statements the president made are basically just to his, you know, to his left. And, you know, they're not substantiated at all.
CUOMO: The optics -- is this about optics? If you want to deal with police aren't you supposed to deal with community relations and training? Why start here?
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, part of community relations are optics, right? Part of what people want is patrol neighborhoods and talk to people. Part of that is about optics. It's bout making people feel as if they're not an occupying force.
I disagree with Harry on a few points. I'll be brief.
HOUCK: Of course.
HILL: One is that it's not a play to the left. Both the left and right post-Ferguson have said the militarization of police forces is dangerous. This is one of the few things both sides of the aisle seem to agree on. Another piece of this is you're right we don't know what the police
departments have those things. Part of the problem with the 1033 Act and before that 1028 is that we're not allowed to know, right? It's not public transparent process. The best we can find out is what county.
For example, I know in St. Louis County somebody has a semiautomatic weapon, but I don't know where. We're not allowed to know where.
CUOMO: What's the danger?
HOUCK: Semiautomatic weapons are fine.
HILL: Or submachine guns. Excuse me --
(CROSSTALK)
HOUCK: But police departments might have them --
HILL: Let me finish this point.
HOUCK: All right.
HILL: The third piece and I think the most important piece here is that these weapons can be used irresponsibly and they can be used in ways that only intensify fear and actually stamp down protests and stamp down First Amendment rights and it's been like that since reconstruction.
HOUCK: But they've not been used improperly. Just like police officers have guns on their side, they can be used improperly. We're not taking guns away from police officers. All right?
The fact is after 9/11, all this equipment went to police departments. Why? Because of the threat of homeland security. There's a threat that ISIS now could attack us any time.
Last -- the other night, we had a big problem in Waco. Now, what if all these bikers out there -- and they found over 100 guns there, what if they decided to shoot out with the police? We would have had a massacre, all right?
HILL: Would you want grenade launchers?
HOUCK: Nobody's got grenade launchers. Nobody's got grenade launchers.
(CROSSTALK)
HOUCK: -- even said they got grenade launchers -- no, what I want is on APC vehicles for them to be able to go out there.
HILL: How about land mines?
HOUCK: They don't have land mines.
HILL: That's not true.
HOUCK: You might as well say they've got F-15 fighters.
HILL: Let me give you an example, Watertown, Connecticut spent $755,000 on a vehicle that could avoid land mines and protect it from land mines.
CUOMO: That was homeland security.
(CROSSTALK)
HOUCK: Doesn't mean that the police department's got land mines.
HILL: You're missing my point. They invested $750,000 on something in a town that has 22,000 people.
CUOMO: That's about money.
HOUCK: It doesn't matter.
HILL: No, no, but what -- that's part of the problem too.
HOUCK: You're telling me there couldn't be a terrorist attack in that town?
HILL: In Watertown, Connecticut, yes --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Look, the risk is probably remote. We've heard of smaller police populations getting disproportionate amounts of money from HLS.
[06:55:00] That's a budgeting issue. This is something else.
HILL: It's not just a budgeting issue.
CUOMO: Where's the fear to the community that they have a vehicle that can resist land mines?
HILL: Because it creates a militaristic mindset, the reason that we don't want a police force that thinks it's an army. Or thinks that --
HOUCK: How come we've never heard it in Baltimore and Ferguson?
HILL: We did hear it.
HOUCK: I never heard the conversation before.
HILL: Google it. I wrote about three pieces in the last 15 years.
CUOMO: How high is this on the list of priorities of what's going to make a wrongful shooting or excessive force less likely?
HILL: I think that's a great question. That's why I disagreed with the president when he went to Camden and said. Here's a great example of what's possible. I do think we need to get away from military style equipment because I
think it creates an occupying presence and occupying mentality in the community and in the minds of police. It goes both ways. But I think also think we have to look at militaristic practices. In Camden, there's still -- people still getting tickets for riding a bicycle without a bell on it.
CUOMO: Yes, I hear you about that stuff. And we're showing these cops pictures here. Look at the picture we're showing.
What do you think was going on in that picture? You think they're out trying to do a drug bust? No, they're worried about having to do tear gas, guys throwing things at them, probably having weapons.
You know, we saw what played out there. This is a little unfair. This isn't how they patrol the streets. This is what happens when there's a riot going on.
HOUCK: Exactly. This was for riot situations. You don't see them on patrol with an APC, you know, down the streets, no matter how bad it gets.
HILL: I agree.
CUOMO: That would be a problem. I would hear you on that.
HOUCK: Right, the police need to be protected. Police in Baltimore were not without helmets --
HILL: Right.
HOUCK: -- because probably some politicians said, listen, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, meanwhile cops are getting rocks thrown at them, lead pipes, all kinds of things --
HILL: I don't think we disagree.
HOUCK: I tell you -- I actually think, all right, that the left does not give a damn about police officers' lives at all the way we talk.
HILL: Now we just went off the rails. I mean, again, I don't think this is a left-right issue. I mean, you agree with the right has made the same argument, right?
CUOMO: Not as often.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: What I'm saying --
HOUCK: If they're in some meeting with the president, trying to talk (INAUDIBLE) the president's going to get whatever he wants.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: This isn't a right wing argument and a left wing argument. HOUCK: I'm saying I can't see a police chief say, no, I do not want an APC.
CUOMO: Button it up.
HILL: My bigger point here is I don't think we're disagreeing that much. We're both saying the police need stuff to protect them. We agree.
There are certain things we both think are excessive. You're saying they're not asking for it. I'm saying we don't know if they're asking for it because this bill allows it to be obscure. So, if we could agree on stuff police absolutely don't need, let's knock it off the list and remember, some of the stuff in this 1033 isn't stuff police can't have. It needs to be more controlled tightly released.
CUOMO: But you know -- look, we know what's going on here. This is an unnecessary distraction. The money for community policing has been cut, having police officers come out of those communities has been cut. It's not a priority. Those are the things they should be emphasizing.
HILL: I don't think it's an unnecessary distraction at all. I think one of the -- I've been on the ground for the last year or two, going -- traveling town to town literally talking to people about militaristic police practices.
CUOMO: Practices, practices. Yes.
HILL: And the two things they talk about are the way they patrol neighborhoods, which is what you're talking about, and they also talk weapons in times of crisis in post-Ferguson, that's been a bigger conversation. So, I do think the optics of this translate into practice on the ground.
HOUCK: I think we need to remember that police lives matter, OK? And this is what this is all about.
CUOMO: Fellas, thank you.
Certainly two distinct sides of this. You see them laid out. What do you think? Tweet us using #NewDayCNN. Or post your comment on Facebook.com/NewDay. This conversation will continue. It's a big story.
There's a lot of news this morning. Let's get right to it. Fellas --
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CUOMO: A major biker war playing out in Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any time a biker gang war starts, it never stops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would encourage biker groups to stand down. There's been enough bloodshed. There's been enough death here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the heart of this mystery is why the train accelerated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The NTSB is saying that this engineer manually moved the throttle forward.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no denying that this is a setback. But there's also no denying that the United States will help the Iraqis take back Ramadi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only way they're going to be able to take Ramadi back is by flattening it.
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to your NEW DAY.
Fears of violent retaliation in Texas this morning. Police on high alert with word members of two biker gangs may be on a collision course following that deadly battle Sunday.
CUOMO: Remember, nine people were left dead in Waco this weekend. CNN has learned four of them may have been killed by responding officers.
So, is another round of carnage coming? It seems so. The question is, how will it be stopped.
Let's begin our coverage this morning with CNN's Nick Valencia in Waco, Texas.
Nick, still very much on edge there, yes?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Still a tense situation, an active crime scene, behind me, you see the crime tape, it's still up. Police say they are on heightened alert because of a memo by biker gangs that they may be going after police officers.
Meanwhile, police continue to remove evidence from the scene, collecting even more motorcycles from this parking lot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still at 170 individuals that we have arrested and charged.
VALENCIA (voice-over): In custody this morning, 170 suspected biker gang members, their bond totaling $170 million.
