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Debate over Mississippi's Flag; Fixing Railroad Infrastructure; Calls to Remove Confederate Flag Grow. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 25, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:33:47] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to NEW DAY. I am live in Columbia, South Carolina. And following the Charleston massacre, there are growing calls to bring down the confederate flag that you see over my shoulder at the state capital. Democrats and Republicans speaking out against that flag, including Mississippi Senator Roger Wicker, he's a Republican, and also New Jersey Senator Cory Booker, he's a Democrat, and they both join me now.

Senators, thanks so much for being here.

Senator Wicker, I want to start with you because your state flag in Mississippi in some ways is even more problematic than the confederate flag in South Carolina because the confederate design is right there smack dab in the middle of the Mississippi state flag. What do you propose doing about that?

SEN. ROGER WICKER (R), MISSISSIPPI: Well, yes, you're right, it actually is a part of our state flag adopted by the voters. So I just have made a statement that I don't think our current flag is unifying and I think it's time to put it in a museum and work toward a flag that's a symbol of unity for all Mississippians. The speaker of the house in Mississippi said the same thing day before yesterday. Senator Cochran also agrees with that point of view. So maybe we're beginning a conversation that will lead to a more unifying state flag.

[08:35:07] CAMEROTA: And, Senator Wicker, you have a very interesting perspective because your ancestors fought for the confederate army. So have you always felt this way about the confederate flag or the Mississippi flag or have you just come to this since the Charleston massacre?

WICKER: You know, I think this Charleston massacre gives us an opportunity to revisit this issue. Of course, my views have changed over the years. But, yes, indeed, I haven't seen the flag as hurtful, but I know that a lot of my fellow citizens, my fellow brothers and sisters in the state of Mississippi, do feel that it's a hurtful symbol and we ought to just do something that's more unifying.

CAMEROTA: Senator Booker, what are your thoughts on what should happen in South Carolina with this flag and Mississippi's?

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D), NEW JERSEY: Well, again, I'm happy that both Mississippi senators and South Carolina's leadership have really joined together to speak with one voice really in the need to make these changes. For me, look, yesterday morning I was sitting right by Roger Wicker and a small group of us that came together for a prayer breakfast, this unifying moment that we have here. Republicans, Democrats sitting together. And as I was sitting by Roger, we talked about this ideal of that we're one nation under God, indivisible. These are the principles that are important not only for the flags that we fly across our country, but also the work we do. And this is why I'm very happy to be standing here today with Roger because while these issues that are capturing the headlines now are important, there are other work we need to do, like investing in our infrastructure.

A lot of people talk about the divisions down in Washington. I've been here just now for about a year and a half and I've been proud to have partners like Roger that put forth a bill that actually makes a lot of improvement by increasing funding and things that can save American lives, like positive train control, increasing investment in our infrastructure, which we know grows our economy and expands jobs.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BOOKER: So, look, there's a lot of headlines, the work of Washington right now. I'm happy that we're starting to focus on some of the problems that some people think are intractable, like our infrastructure deficit.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BOOKER: To fund a partner like Roger to work on these things that can create jobs, expand opportunity and make our nation stronger and better.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

WICKER: Alisyn, I think that's about the best segue I've ever seen on television.

CAMEROTA: I saw your - Senator Wicker, I saw your grin at how seamlessly your colleague there segued to what you both want to talk about, which, of course -

WICKER: He's a master.

CAMEROTA: He is - your bipartisan effort. And I do want to get to that. Give me one - indulge me for one more question. Senator Wicker, do you believe that Governor Haley should use whatever legal loophole exists tomorrow in honor of State Senator Pinckney's funeral to bring this flag down even temporarily?

WICKER: Well, listen, I don't know anything about the law in South Carolina. I think it's been a very unifying moment to see this governor stand with her two senators in a moment of unity and others. And I'll leave that for them. I have no idea what the law allows or requires in South Carolina. I think there's a lot of positive movement there.

CAMEROTA: OK. Senator Booker, back to what you want to talk about, and that is that there was another tragedy and that was the tragedy last month of the train derailment outside of Philadelphia that took eight lives. And you and your colleague have crossed party lines to work in a bipartisan manner to help fix this. What are you trying to do for train safety?

BOOKER: Well, again, I just want to say, regarding the flag, it's not that I don't want to talk about that. It's that I want to do things that are going to continue to unify our country. I'm happy with what I'm seeing in both South Carolina and Mississippi.

But we've got to be unified as well to deal with the challenges we're facing in our country. And we have a tremendous infrastructure deficit and we have a tremendous lack of investment in the things that we know will help our country. And so after what happened in Amtrak in Pennsylvania, that grievous tragedy that took human life, there were significant injuries, but also spoke to the urgency in this country to upgrade our infrastructure. We have nations from Japan to China to all throughout Europe that are flying past us quite literally in the speeds of their trains, their safety records. We in America need to do the same thing.

And so here I found an incredible partner across the aisle who was focused on making sure that we eliminate red tape, that we create public/private partnerships, that we find mechanisms to increase investment. And what we have now is a bipartisan bill that increases investment over last year, as well as over the House bill, that invests not only in improving our infrastructure, but also in important critical safety needs like positive train control.

And so this is a victory on the Senate side. We have a lot more work to do to get this passed on the floor. It's come out - come out of committee and then - and then do the bi - the bicameral battle of sorts to make sure we do the responsible thing in our nation and with our nation's infrastructure.

[08:40:11] CAMEROTA: Yes. Yes. Senator Brooker, Senator Wicker, thanks so much for coming on NEW DAY to talk about all of these pressing matters. We appreciate your bipartisan effort and your thoughts on all of this. Thank you.

BOOKER: Thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: Let's get back to Chris in New York.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Alisyn, you got a two-fer there because you got them about what's relevant and what's going on in Carolina with the flag and how that reverberates around the country and bringing up positive train control after Amtrak is important because that infrastructure need could well be forgotten. So you got a two- fer.

All right, we're going the take a break. When we come back, for years you've been told to cut the fat from your diet, right? New guidelines - yes, wait for it - may flip that on its head. Fatty food, back in style?

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MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go with the five things to know for your new day.

At number one, another prison worker is now facing charges in the New York prison escape. Officer Gene Palmer is due back in court today. He is accused of loaning the escaped killers tools behind bars and also with tampering with evidence.

Beloved South Carolina Pastor and State Senator Clementa Pinkney's funeral is set for tomorrow. President Obama will deliver the eulogy. Two other church massacre victims, Ethel Lance and Reverend Sharonda Coleman-Singleton will be laid to rest today.

[08:45:02] A blistering heat wave in Pakistan has already killed over a thousand people. Hospitals are packed. They're relying on volunteers and donors for ice, water and spare beds. Sadly, that death toll is expected to rise.

The Boston Marathon bomber speaking out for the first time, apologizing for the pain and the suffering that he caused victims. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev made those comments before a judge formally imposed his death sentence.

The Supreme Court set to issue opinions today and Friday. Seven cases left on the docket, but the justice has yet to rule on ones involving same sex marriage and Obamacare.

As you know, for more on the five things, you can always visit newdaycnn.com for the latest.

Now today, though, in our "NEW DAY, new you," fatty foods, are they making a come back? Turns out there is no health benefit to limiting total fat intake. That's according to a new report by the Federal Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee. They recommend saturated fats be replaced with unsaturated fats to reduce the risk of heart disease.

So Chris, before you get your bacon wrapped bacon wrapped sausage deep fried, make sure that you load up on good fats found in things like vegetable oil, peanut oils, fatty fish like salmon and trout. Doctors used to encourage folks to eat a low fat diet, but that let to a higher consumption of those bad trans fats. Which we know are terrible for you.

CUOMO: I knew it wasn't going to be what it sounded. We were showing french fries and donuts.

PEREIRA: Of course.

CUOMO: And people say, well, they don't have trans fats in them anyway.

PEREIRA: Yeah, well, they have the bad fat.

CUOMO: There's no easy way. It's always the hard way. That's the --

PEREIRA: No. Go green.

CUOMO: So what we see going down in South Carolina right now with the confederate flag and other states, how far will it go? How far should it go? Why has it become so partisan? Should this issue be that way? We're going to take a closer look ahead. Stay with us.

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[08:50:35] CUOMO: The church massacre has had a ripple effect. No question of that. The question is how's it going to manifest? What we're see right now is the fascination with the confederate flag. You have more lawmakers and businesses demanding that that flag be removed. In some states, they are begging to fall. So where is this going to go? What does it really mean? Is it going too far in some ways?

Let's bring in CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast," Mr. John Avlon.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, guys.

CUOMO: What do you see in this?

AVLON: This has been a remarkable sea change in a period of a week. This was a settled issue built on 150 years of painful, bloody history. And yet, when anyone ran for president and went through South Carolina, they were told by the local operatives, just say it's a state's rights issue, side-stepped, this is the way it is.

CUOMO: You Keep seeing Clinton/Gore banners on a confederate flag.

AVLON: Yeah. And in one week, the political calculus changed entirely. Lindsey Graham, Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, the entire basically congressional delegation with a couple of exceptions saying this should come down. And then the ripple effect. Mississippi, the governor of Alabama taking it down in one day, Walmart, Amazon.com.

This has been a sea change that is rooted on 150 years of history and that shows you how quickly things can change when you consider them settled issues. All of a sudden, one of the impacts of this shooting has been that folks who always said it was heritage not hate are forced to confront the other people's view of it, the view that this is not a symbol of liberty, this is a symbol of tyranny for people. And that, all of a sudden, has changed the calculus and not enough can be said about what it teaches us about cultural conversations and political will.

PEREIRA: But there are still lawmakers right there in South Carolina that are opposing even having this debate. We should point that out. But here's one thing I want to say. Yes, I don't disagree with the fact that this needs to be addressed and dealt with. That's not what I'm saying. But there is a conversation going on beside about the idea that it is pulling the focus away from the fact that racism is alive and well in this country and talking about race issues instead of just talking about the flag or about gun rights. Do you think there's -- AVLON: I disagree with you on the first fundamentally. I agree with

you on the second. This is literally a symbolic issue, right? I mean, this is about symbolism.

PEREIRA: But do you think we obsess too much about a piece of fabric and a flag? Is it overblown and not looking at the underlying problems?

AVLON: I think one of the things about confronting this particular flag and the history of the flag, it's also about confronting American history. It's about seeing the (INAUDIBLE). It's about seeing other people's perspectives. So that's actually profound. It's about something a lot deeper than a flag debate.

Now the issue of whether it's deflecting from the issue of guns, that's a separate conversation. But the fact is that, you know, Dylann Roof bought this gun legally and it was a handgun. So it wouldn't have been covered by the assault weapons ban debate we had in the wake of Sandy Hook. And moreover, given that we have reunified Republican control of Congress, I think people are feeling that gun debate is not going to go anywhere right now. This is a substantive, if symbolic, step. It's actually dealing with underlying issues of racism.

PEREIRA: We also thought the flag debate wouldn't have gone anywhere and look what's happened. So maybe -

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: And you still see resistance. When there was an initial push to define this massacre as what it is, which was a hate crime, there was partisan pushback on that. When it was called terrorism by people like me, it was pushed back on. And you're seeing that. And that's not just some fringe conservative right that's doing it. It's people who are pushing back on something that you would think would be an obvious and unifying moment.

AVLON: Well, in the immediate wake of the attack, when we didn't have complete information, there was an impulse, particularly by people running for president, to try to spin this as an attack on faith. We discussed that. You know, it was a narrative that was more comfortable than confronting race. But once we had this guy's rambling racist manifesto, we knew what was going through his head to some extent. We knew his influences, organizations like the Conservative Council of Citizens.

So all of a sudden, there became a greater taking into account the influences of this. What's extraordinary, I think, from a South Carolina perspective -- and my folks moved there almost 30 years ago -- is that one of the things this has done is I think it's teaching folks -- it's starting a conversation about how to honor the past without being held captive by it.

PEREIRA: That's a very good point.

AVLON: And that's a really important thing for our society. There is more to be done. There is a two-thirds vote to come up. But what's happening is historic.

PEREIRA: A racist terrorist, perhaps, is maybe the way you say it.

CUOMO: The guy who did the Charleston thing? He was definitely a racist terrorist. There's no question about it. Hillary Clinton called that as well, but I think it's more common sense than it is legal understanding. Taking the flag off the General Lee? Let's see what happens.

[08:55:02] PEREIRA: Come on. That's a whole other discussion.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: That's what they just decided. All right. So what do you think about this? You know how to get us. You tweet us, you go on Facebook. Continue this conversation because it matters. It's just a step any way you look at it.

So an airport full of adults, they wind up going above and beyond just to make a little kid happy. Doesn't usually happen in airports. And that's why it's "The Good Stuff."

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CUOMO: "Eye of the Tiger." Usually I'm throwing shadow punches. It's time for "The Good Stuff."

PEREIRA: Settle down there, tiger.

CUOMO: An airport full of adults, they went above and beyond to make this little kid happy. It's a great story. Six-year-old Owen Lake, he's got this beloved stuffed tiger called Hobbes. You know, like Calvin and Hobbes. Takes it everywhere. Hobbes got left behind at the airport and Owen was crushed. The employees find it, Tampa International, they don't just find it, they send him pics of the tiger on an epic adventure.

PEREIRA: This is genius.

CUOMO: He went everywhere, the control tower, the runways, the fire department. When Owen got back, not only did he get Hobbes, he got a custom photobook of Hobbes' adventures the airport employees ordered themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:59:57] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had been telling him, you know, Hobbes is going on an adventure and he's going to be on an adventure and everything is going to be fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: See that?

PEREIRA: So good.

CUOMO: Not only - So he didn't lose it, you know, the tiger just took a trip. That's all.

PEREIRA: Oh, I love it. What a great trip for him to have, too. Now he's back home where he belongs.