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2016 Republicans Look Beyond Marriage Ruling; GOP Lawmakers Fight Back After Gay Marriage Ruling; Mets Rookie Pitcher Matz Gets Record RBIs In Debut. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired June 29, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": -- nice fish, Mr. Cuomo. How did you do? I saw your brother did, how did you do?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All I'm saying is just because he's holding the fish doesn't mean he caught the fish and he wasn't even really holding the fish, he was using a grip. I know you would never do that, John King, man's man.

KING: A little family feud, you guys can work that out among yourselves.

Busy day to go "Inside Politics" so let's get to it, with me to share their reporting and their insights are Jackie Kucinich of "The Daily Beast" and Olivier Knox of "Yahoo News!"

Let's start with a bit of a divide among the Republicans over what to do in the wake of this landmark Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage. If you listen to all of them, they say it's very important to respect religious liberty.

That is if you are a Christian church or Evangelical. Maybe if you're just in private business and you object to this ruling, how do you exempt yourself and comply with this? Listen to Governor Mike Huckabee here, the former Arkansas governor. Christian conservatives are key to his support. Does he go over the line with this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If they have a conscientious objection, I think they should be excused. I'm not sure that every governor and every attorney general should just say, well, it's the law of the land because there is no enabling legislation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Get it for somebody in private business. This is a sensitive issue. If those who support same-sex marriage should respect the religious beliefs and the moral beliefs of people who disagree with them, but a governor or an attorney general, they put their hand on the bible and promise to uphold the law of the land.

How does a governor or an attorney general opt out when like it or not, this is the highest court of the land and they say this is the law of the land. JACKIE KUCINICH, "THE DAILY BEAST": I don't think they can. It's doesn't seem feasible. I don't think you'll see. It doesn't seem like a lot of governors are going to do that. It is the law of the land. But you know, Mike Huckabee has a certain constituency that he is looking to and he is looking to cultivate. They are not happy about the ruling. He is speaking to his people.

KING: Is it credible, cultivating, if you will, if you are telling people that I think the people in leadership positions should ignore the law?

OLIVIER KNOX, "YAHOO! NEWS": On the political front, it's the avenue to the long shot candidate for the White House. This is his only path. We saw a few hot takes from the Republican field after this ruling including Bobby Jindal saying we should do away with the Supreme Court.

Some of these guys are running for the right. Those with a general election shot, a big one, Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio say I don't like it, but it's the law of the land. We have to respect it.

KING: The Ohio governor, John Kasich, who gets into the race next month that he is low on the polls right now, but he is one of those, an establishment camp who may not like this personally, but --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: But, I think everybody needs to take a deep breath and see how it evolves. But I know this, I mean, religious institutions and entities, like the Catholic Church. They need to be honored as well. I think there's an ability to strike a balance.

KING: To strike a balance, a more sober tone there. There has been analysis over the weekend maybe this is an opportunity for the Republicans. That if they can put these issues behind them, they can focus on national security and the economy in the 2016 election.

That is more favorable ground for them. That would be true, if they can get across the quick sand without getting stuck in the quick sand, but is there any reason to believe when you put ten or if there is two debates, all 15 or 16 of them that they won't get stuck in this.

I mean, Mitt Romney didn't want to say self-deport in the last campaign, but because they were having the fight over immigration that's where he found himself tugged.

Is there any reason to believe Jindal and others in the debate, they can say let's not debate these issues? Let's not go right and drive other people away?

KUCINICH: I would be shocked if this doesn't come up in a debate. You have all these people vying to be on stage. All these tiers, they can't put them all on stage at this point so I think that because there are pockets, there's a conservative candidate. You are going to have the conservative who is the most bombastic and trying to get attention and gay marriage is one way that they can do that.

KNOX: It's not 2004 anymore. In 2004, when George W. Bush was running for re-election, he came out in favor of constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. It's not 2004 anymore, this issue has change. The dynamics have changed. No, they are not going to get an easy path. It's going to be in the debates. The establishment ones don't want any part of it.

KING: Another one of the establishment candidates, we put him there, the New Jersey governor, Chris Christie. He's low in the polls back home and when you look at what national Republicans want for a presidential candidate, but Chris Christie is jumping in the race tomorrow. He said the best advice he ever got was from his mom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I know if my mom was still alive, she would say to me, I taught you that in a trusting relationship, you don't hold anything back. And, if you are going to run for president of the United States, and you are going to ask these people for their vote, that is the single most trusting thing they can do as a citizen, is to give you their support.

So you better tell them exactly what you are thinking and exactly what you are feeling. When you ask about my moral compass, that's it. That's it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:35:12] KING: That's the 2016 version of straight talk from John McCain. The work, where is his avenue to come back from the bottom?

KUCINICH: It's a very crowded -- even on the straight topic express, it's crowded, someone like John Kasich, who is sort of the same mantra. You know, the real straight talk is New Jersey in terms of their economy is a problem. Chris Christie has to have an answer for that.

KNOX: Yes, I think if he has a chance, it's going to be a really, really a strong showing in New Hampshire where that stuff plays better, where he plays a lot better as a candidate.

KING: A couple footnotes on the Democratic side. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders on ABC this week yesterday, he agrees with the same-sex marriage ruling. He thinks it's great. He defended his gun record. He is somebody who says, look, I'm from rural Vermont.

People in urban areas have to respect people who want to own guns. He says Obamacare is great, but we should go to a single payer system and make it better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do believe that we have to move toward a Medicare for all, single payer system. I think it's not going to happen tomorrow, but that certainly should be the goal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: This is way to keep -- he's done pretty well so far establishing a viable alternative in the polls with Hillary Clinton? He doesn't beat her anywhere yet, but he's closing in. Is this the way to do it? Keep that liberal base?

KUCINICH: I mean, Bernie Sanders is saying what Bernie Sanders believes and he hasn't deviated from that. It's working for him right now. Look at his poll numbers in New Hampshire. Now when we get to a more split crowd, I think he might have a problem.

KING: Olivier, jump in on this one and I want to be respectful. We have pictures of Vice President Biden, who went to AME Emanuel Church yesterday with his son, Hunter, paying a surprise visit there to be in that church on this very important early weekend after what happened in Charleston.

The "Wall Street Journal" has a fascinating story today. We talked about this in the past. He will decide by August whether or not to get into the 2016 race. How can he do it now? He hasn't built a staff. He hasn't reached out to the activists in key states.

But the "Journal" story reports that Beau Biden, before he died told his father, I'd like you to run. Hunter Biden seen with him in the church there, his other son said, dad, why don't you do it?

KNOX: Well, you know, officially they are saying this is not the appropriate time to be discussing anything like this. The vice president is a vigorous, energetic campaigner. He is a good retail politician. He loves the fray and the fight.

He's taken on an awful lot of really difficult jobs inside this administration, crushing the stimulus, Iraq and other jobs. As you say, it would be tough to get in and tough to build the kind of machine, national organization that he would need to. Officially, everyone in the White House is saying how can you ask this right now?

KING: It would be interesting to see him out there on the campaign trail. No structure out there at the moment, but as we get back to you guys in New York today. It's fascinating decision to watch. We want to have enormous personal respect for the vice president right now, Alisyn, as he goes through this grieving period.

It will be interesting. He hasn't called in or built a staff, but he is a joyous campaigner. We'll keep an eye on that as we get closer to August.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely, that would be an interesting development. All right, thanks so much, John.

So does Friday's Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage put religious freedom at risk? Some say yes. They are calling on Congress to act. We will hear from a vocal opponent on same-sex marriage, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:42:17] CUOMO: Friday, Supreme Court ruling in favor of same-sex marriage is prompting criticism from conservative lawmakers. They are calling for greater religious freedom protections. Ninety lawmakers in the House and Senate are co-sponsoring the first amendment defense act.

They want to protect people who refuse to participate in the same-sex weddings. Is this move a way to legalize discrimination against same- sex couples? It's the religious freedom laws we have state by state. Remember that?

So let's have someone who is arguing in the affirmative saying this is a good move. His name is Peter Sprigg. He is senior fellow for Policy Studies for the Family Research Council. Good to have you back on the show, sir. Make the case for me. Why is this necessary?

PETER SPRIGG, SENIOR FELLOW FOR POLICY STUDIES, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, nothing in the Supreme Court's decision changes the first amendment right for the free exercise of religion. There are people who are hostile to the free exercise of religion by those who believe that marriage is the union of one man and one woman.

So the first amendment defense act is an example at the federal level of an effort to make sure that the government does not discriminate in any government action against private entities because they hold to the belief that marriage is the union of one man and one woman, and act on that belief.

CUOMO: Why is it needed? I mean, certainly when you look at Massachusetts and other states where you've had gay marriage, you do not see any type of multiplication of cases like this, this idea of the Christian Baker who is a Christian first and a Baker second. You don't see a lot of cases like it. You have such strong defense of your right to free exercise already under the constitution.

SPRIGG: What we saw in Massachusetts after marriage was redefined in that state was, for example, Catholic charities which had long been involved in the adoption business was driven out of the adoption business because they had a conscientious objection to placing children for adoption with same-sex couples.

Now there was no shortage of other adoption agencies in Massachusetts who are perfectly happy to serve same-sex couples, but because Catholic charities chose to operate on the basis of their convictions, they were forced out of business.

That's an example of the kind government discrimination based on religious viewpoints that this type of law would try to prevent.

CUOMO: Why isn't that an example of discrimination by the religious? Obviously a church or synagogue doesn't have to marry same-sex couples if they don't want to and no one is saying that they can. We are seeing that bubble up as some would access as a scare tactic in the wake of this decision that they'll lose tactics and status if they don't go along with.

[07:45:04] But you say Catholic charities, if you want to adopt babies and be part of that process, you have to be equal to all. That's equal protection. If you don't do that and respect the law of the land, you are discriminating. You are not discriminated against, fair point?

SPRIGG: Even if there is an established by the law or by the court a right to same-sex marriage or perhaps a right of same-sex couples to adopt, as long as that right is able to be exercised, then there should be maximum accommodation for people who have a conscientious objection to that.

Otherwise, you are simply using the coercive power of the state to try to force people to change their deepest religious convictions. That is something that is definitely contrary to our first amendment rights.

CUOMO: Absolutely. I don't see where it is involved with the free exercise of your right. It is not a part of being a Catholic to not give babies to gay people. That's not part of the Catholic catechism and that's the question that this law, as the religious freedom law did.

It smacks familiar to what happened in the wake of the miscegenation laws and the civil rights laws where people said, and some cited the bible, some stated religion and said it's against my beliefs, I shouldn't have to participate. You know that's not how the law works here.

SPRIGG: Well, the problem with your premise, Chris, is you think that you have the right to dictate how someone else exercises their religion. If you disagree with their expression of their religion or their particular convictions about how to apply their religious beliefs, they shouldn't be allowed to apply it in that way. It's not the way it works. Individuals and religions get to decide for themselves how to exercise their religious convictions.

CUOMO: Right, but we both know that your religion, my religion is the rule for you and for me, but not for all. You don't project your religious beliefs on to the behavior of others. We know that we can't do that in a prolistic society. This seems like sour grapes and a little bit of trying to defy, which is OK, culturally, but it is not OK when it's done in contravention to the supreme law of the land.

SPRIGG: Well, I'm talking entirely right now. This whole conversation has been about the activities of either private individuals or private organizations that are acting on their religious beliefs. That has nothing to do with how the government treats people.

It's sad that people who have achieved a great victory in terms of the Supreme Court ruling are unwilling to be gracious winners and allow other people to simply disagree and act on their beliefs.

CUOMO: Where are the cases, though, Peter? That's what I'm not seeing. We all know about the one infamous pizzeria and the Christian baker. Do you believe there's a reasonable expectation that if you want to get married to your partner, your same-sex partner, you are going to use a baker that doesn't want to use you and sue them.

That you are going to seek out people who hate who you are and what you are or are opposed to it for your own wedding? Do you believe this is going to be something you have to protect against?

SPRIGG: Well, I just read an article in the newspaper this morning that in one of these cases involving the wedding industry, involving a reception at a farm in New York, in fact, the same-sex couple actually recorded the conversation in which they called and requested the opportunity.

This is not something where -- I mean, it was obviously a set up. They were setting up a challenge. This is the kind of thing that I think is inconsistent with our tolerant and diverse society. We should be able to have diversity in our views of marriage as well.

CUOMO: It's dangerous when you get into selective tolerance. You don't hear this from so-called Christian bakers when it comes to second marriages or marrying adulterers or marrying people who don't want to have kids. All those things would be equal violations of what they say they are free exercises. But that doesn't bother them.

Peter, let's save it for another day. This is going to be an ongoing discussion. Let's see what happens with the efforts in Washington. Thank you, Mr. Sprigg, for joining us on NEW DAY and having this contest as always.

SPRIGG: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Absolutely. What do you think? This is not done because the Supreme Court said something. It doesn't make it our culture. What do you think? Tweet us #newdayCNN or Facebook.com/newday -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, I'll be interested to read those comments. Meanwhile, it was a family affair. New York Stephen Matz made his next debut and instantly impressed on the mound and at the plate.

[07:50:04] They call it a debut for the ages. Andy Scholes has all these details in our "Bleacher Report. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: LeBron is now a free agent, Chris. Let me tell you about sports. Yes, he was opting out of the last year of his contract that he has.

CUOMO: He is?

CAMEROTA: Yes. The Cleveland fans shouldn't be too worried this time around. Yes. Andy Scholes has this and more in "The Bleacher Report."

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Good morning. Yes. LeBron is not going anywhere. It's a formality. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays the rest of the year with the one-year contracts. By doing so, he maintains all the power within the Cavs organization, plus when the new TV deals kick in, LeBron can get a huge raise. The big fish that has a realistic of changing teams are Lamarcus Aldridge and Mark Gasol.

New York pitcher, Stephen Matz, had himself quite the debut. Matz went 3-3 at the plate with four RBIs, and the four RBIs is a major league record for a pitcher in his debut. You have to check out the Matz family in the stands. They were going nuts all afternoon especially grandpa.

He loved it. He said after the game he loves hitting. The Mets won the game 7-2. You had to know it would be a special day for Matz he grew up from down the road where the Mets played.

CAMEROTA: That is great. Now do you understand everything about sports?

[07:55:02] CUOMO: I do. You have a way of communicating it to me where I can finally get it.

CAMEROTA: That's good. I've never been accused of that before.

CUOMO: All right, so it took three weeks. Some say they might never have found these guys. It could have taken years. We're talking about these two convicts in New York State. One wound up dead, the other one now in critical condition, but the investigation far from over. We'll tell you the questions and the answers ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: The nightmare is finally over. It took 22 days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shot twice in the torso.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this time, his condition is listed as critical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will be 24/7 lockdown for rest of his life.

ROMANS: Greece on the brink of financial ruin this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know if a last minute deal can be stitched together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Situation in Greece will deteriorate very rapidly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone has taken our flag and has abused it for hate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is simply a symbol of bigotry, a symbol of racial hatred.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The true spirit behind the flag will never die. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This ruling is a --

(END VIDEOTAPE)