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Prison Inmates Did Practice Run Night Before Escape; What Happens Next to Prison Escapee?; Massive Fire Destroys Historic Black Church in South Carolina; Poll: Trump, Bush Top GOP Field; Mexico Pulls Out of Miss Universe Pageant; U.S. Team Advances to Women's World Cup Final. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 01, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Major scandal at Clinton Correctional goes all the way to top.

[05:58:23] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This kind of practice for these officers to bring you in contraband.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities now learning more about the duo's escape, which also included a dry run the night before they broke out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another black church burns.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The inside of this church is all gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Churches in Florida, Tennessee, North and South Carolina all since the shooting rampage.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am proud to announce my candidacy for the Republican nomination for president of the United States of America!

MARY PAT CHRISTIE, WIFE OF CHRIS CHRISTIE: I think America is looking for someone to tell the truth.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump says he is suing Univision for $500 million in the wake of the network's decision to dump the Miss USA pageant.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What NBC and Univision did to these young women is disgraceful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn't our fault. It was his fault.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All righty. Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Wednesday, July 1, 6 a.m. in the East. Captured escapee David Sweat is giving up new details to

investigators from his hospital bed. Now, before being lawyered up, Sweat tells authorities that he and Richard Matt practiced their escape the night before they really broke out.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, the investigation into how they did it continues. This morning, the prison chief and 11 staffers sit out on administrative leave. So how many of them had some hand in this?

We begin our coverage with CNN's Jean Casarez. She is live outside the prison in Dannemora, New York.

What did you learn, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of new information coming out. CNN has obtained a photograph of Richard Matt shortly after he was shot. We do want to warn our viewers, it is extremely graphic.

Meanwhile, David Sweat, alive, is still in the hospital in Albany, New York. He continues to talk to authorities.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ (voice-over): Captured convicted killer, David Sweat, claims he was the mastermind behind the prison break 26 days ago.

According to District Attorney Andrew Wylie, the former fugitive says he and fellow inmate Richard Matt nearly escaped the maximum- security prison the night before on their dry run, but decided the first manhole they reached was not secluded enough, Sweat telling investigators that Joyce Mitchell was supposed to pick them up and drive to West Virginia before heading to Mexico.

ANDREW WYLIE, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, CLINTON COUNTY: There was occasions where they heard helicopters.

CASAREZ: Wylie telling NBC News Sweat and Matt often tuned into AM radio while on the run, continuing to change directions as they moved toward Canada. Sweat says he and Matt were very close to being caught several times.

WYLIE: The sheriff's deputy vehicle had pulled up in the vicinity of where they were, and they were somewhat surprised. And they said -- I think they said Matt fell backwards and, you know, made some noise, but the sheriff's deputy didn't locate them.

CASAREZ: Wylie also telling NBC News at one point Sweat said authorities were combing the forest floor while he was hiding in a tree stand used for hunting right above them. This, as we are now seeing a graphic image of Richard Matt moments after he was shot. The photo shows Matt lying on the ground, a gunshot wound to the top of his skull.

Meanwhile, CNN learns the inmates started planning and may have started cutting through the prison walls six months ago. The scrutiny intensifying on the correctional facility as a dozen employees are now on administrative leave, including prison executives like Superintendent Steven Racette, who initially led Governor Andrew Cuomo on a tour of how the convicts broke free.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: David Sweat is also saying that they used hacksaws, not power tools, to cut through the cell wall, and then cut into the steam pipe. So Chris, hacksaws are going to be a lot less noisy than the power tools.

CUOMO: That's true. Jean, thank you very much.

The question now is, what's next for the escaped convict, Mr. Sweat? New York corrections officials have a decision coming soon, because his time in the hospital is nearing an end. Let's get to CNN's Sara Ganim. She has that part of the story live at Albany Medical Center -- Sara.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Good morning, Chris.

Yes, David Sweat continues to recover here and, as you've seen, continues to talk, which is good for authorities. He's being -- he's placed in a part of the hospital, a secure part of the hospital that's reserved only for prisoners. Regular people do not stay in that part of the hospital. It's a secure area only for prisoners.

And he's expected to be here for a few more days, but then he will be released and released into the custody of the Department of Corrections, and as you said, then they have a decision to make: where does he go?

Now of course, experts say it is very unlikely he will go back to the same maximum-security prison that he broke out of about three weeks ago. He would be a problem for a variety of reasons. He could be considered both a hero and also a target inside the prison where he was housed where he had broken out of.

So corrections officials will have to find another place for him, likely.

Now the district attorney, who will be prosecuting him, who has promised he will be charged with escape, and with burglary and any other crimes he committed while on the run, also said that there is -- it is very unlikely that he will get any kind of plea deal -- Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Sara.

Meanwhile, David Sweat's mother says she's happy her son was captured alive. She hopes he learned his lesson. Speaking to CNN's Erin Burnett last night, Pamela Sweat says her son and Richard Matt couldn't have pulled off the escape without help from the inside.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: This escape was meticulously planned,

Pam, right? I mean, they spent a lot of time; they rehearsed it. Are you surprised that your son took the risk, that he did this?

PAMELA SWEAT, MOTHER OF DAVID SWEAT: Yes. I was really surprised that he did it. I still say to this day, if that woman didn't -- and whoever else was involved didn't give them that stuff, those guys would have never broke out of jail. They wouldn't have had nothing to do it with.

So I kind of -- you know, I blame them as well as the two guys, David and the other guy. They knew better.

BURNETT: You're talking about Joyce Mitchell?

SWEAT: Well, not just her, but other people that are in the prison system.

BURNETT: This is your son. What is your hope for his future?

SWEAT: Well, I just hope he learned his lesson and he stays in where he's at; and I get to go see him.

BURNETT: Pam, I know you haven't been able to speak to him yet.

SWEAT: No.

BURNETT: What would be your message to him if he saw you right now?

[06:05:09] SWEAT: I hope that he gets better. And I love him, and I miss him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right. We do have some breaking news overnight to share with you right now. Because the FBI and ATF investigating a massive fire that engulfed a historic black church in Greeleyville, South Carolina. With the state still grieving from the church massacre in Charleston two weeks ago, many suspect arson.

Let's get right to CNN's Victor Blackwell. He's live in Greeleyville with the very latest -- Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, we're just minutes from sunrise, and we're getting our first look at this church. Just the brick exterior walls and that white cross are all that's left. This church was gutted by flames, the steeple brought down by a huge fire last night.

Fifty firefighters struggled for hours to take those flames down. The ATF is on scene. The FBI will be joining the investigation to determine the cause. That has not been determined. They'll also look to find out if it's the result of arson or a hate crime, because as you mentioned, this congregation has dealt with both before. In June, 20 years ago, 1995, two members of the Ku Klux Klan

burned the original Mt. Zion AME to the ground. They pleaded guilty and were sent off to prison.

President Clinton back in 1996 attended the rededication of this building, and this congregation will now have to rebuild again.

It's important to say, again, that the cause of this fire has not been determined. But I have spoken with a person who lives in this community, lived here his entire life. He fears that this is a repeat of what happened in the '90s.

It's also important to say that this is the seventh black church across the South to be destroyed by fire since the Charleston massacre two weeks ago. The NAACP is now telling black churches to take precautions to prevent something like this from happening to their building.

The ATF will be going in, once the embers that are still glowing in this church cool off, with sniffer dogs to determine what evidence they can collect to determine exactly what happened here. We're expecting a news conference sometime this morning.

Back to you.

CUOMO: All right, Victor. Obviously, you have motivation and causation. Seven churches in eight days can't be a coincidence. Thank you very much for the reporting. We'll stay on this story.

We also have news of a new CNN/ORC poll out this morning with a twist. You know what happens when you insult immigrants? You gain in the polls. Jeb Bush and now Donald Trump leading the pack of Republican candidates, Trump making a move to the positive despite all the negative energy around him. However, against Hillary Clinton, the poll finds neither have a chance against the Democratic frontrunner, at least for now.

Let's bring in CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar, live in Washington with the numbers. A little surprising, at least to me there.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: yes, I totally agree with you. But this is a poll, Chris, that when you look at it, it's good news for Jeb Bush.

He stands right now at 19 points. And that's actually up six points from May. So he's sort of emerging here as a bit of a humble front-runner.

And when people were surveyed about how he would do in certain categories -- the economy, illegal immigration, social issues -- they said that Bush would do the best out of the entire field.

But look at Donald Trump here at 12 percent. He is bleeding off a tremendous amount of support from the field, especially when you're talking about Marco Rubio, who's down eight points; Scott Walker, who's down four points. That's, of course, the Wisconsin governor. So those are not a good poll for those guys, for sure.

But look at Democrats. Hillary Clinton is just taking it, really taking the field here as we've seen her doing: 57 percent. I will say that's down a little bit of a smidge since May, but it's really within the margin of error, so you can't say that she's sliding.

But certainly, Bernie Sanders getting some excitement there.

And then look at these national match-ups. The good news for Jeb Bush is that, in a national match-up against Hillary Clinton, he is doing the best. The bad news is that he is still trailing her by 13 points.

You look at how Donald Trump shapes up here, 25 points behind Hillary Clinton. In between Jeb Bush and Trump you have Marco Rubio and Chris Christie. But all of these guys really trailing the Democratic front-runner, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Interesting, Brianna.

Well, it's not all up for Donald Trump, even though he's up in the polls. Mexico is now saying it is not going to send a contestant to the next Miss Universe pageant; and both hosts of the upcoming Miss USA pageant are pulling out, citing Trump's derogatory comments about Mexicans.

But The Donald is not apologizing. And in fact, he's now saying he's filing a $500 million lawsuit against one of the broadcasters for dropping its coverage. CNN's Athena Jones is live in Washington with all of the latest on The Donald.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

This keeps getting more interesting. And no, Trump isn't saying he's sorry. Look, we know he's bold; he's brash; he's proud. He's supremely confident. And he believes he's right on this illegal immigration issue. And so far, this cloud doesn't seem to be hurting him. As we saw, he's surging in the polls. And that may be why we saw more of that quintessential Trump style last night in New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:10:08] JONES (voice-over): Donald Trump on the trail in New Hampshire and refusing to back down from his controversial comments about Mexican immigrants.

TRUMP: And I understand everybody loves what I'm doing in terms of the border, because we have to stop the illegals from coming in.

JONES: The real-estate mogul caused an uproar in his announcement speech two weeks ago.

TRUMP: They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists, and some, I assume, are good people. JONES: In response, Univision and NBC Universal cut ties with

the brash billionaire, saying they will no longer air the Miss USA or Miss Universe pageants, partly owned by Trump.

The outcry hasn't stopped there. Mexico said Tuesday it's withdrawing from the Miss Universe event, citing Trump's "racist comments." And other co-hosts for the Miss USA pageant have said they won't take part either.

But Trump is standing his ground.

TRUMP: What NBC and Univision did to these young women was disgraceful. They never had them in mind.

JONES: Trump on Tuesday filed a $500 million lawsuit against Univision and hasn't ruled out a similar move against NBC.

TRUMP: My first thing is Univision. And let's see how they respond to a $500 million, very good lawsuit. It's a very good lawsuit. And let's see who comes next.

JONES: But the former reality TV star wasn't the only blunt- speaking Republican presidential candidate wooing voters in New Hampshire on Tuesday.

CHRISTIE: I want to be the next president of the United States, and I intend to win this election.

JONES: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie made his first foray to the Granite State, after launching his presidential bid, telling a town hall...

CHRISTIE: You're going to sometimes shake your head and say, "I wish he hadn't quite said it that way." But I'll guarantee, here's one thing you'll never say. You'll never say, "I don't know what he thinks."

JONES: Christie and Trump, two candidates offering their own very different brands of straight talk.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: And now, our latest polling showing Trump in second place among Republicans nationally, while Chris Christie is starting out in the low single digits.

And as for that $500 million lawsuit, Univision says Trump's complaint is, quote, "both factually false and legally ridiculous." The company says it will vigorously defend the case -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: And we will be watching. Here's something also to watch, Athena. Tonight, Donald Trump is going to sit down with Don Lemon. And they're going to talk about the firestorm and his presidential race. That's 10 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

CUOMO: The White House and Cuba set to simultaneously announce an agreement to restore diplomatic relations. That means embassies in Washington and Havana set to reopen for the first time in more than 50 years. President Obama and Cuban leader Raul Castro first announced the thawing of relations in December. And since then, Washington has removed Cuba from the list of countries that sponsor terror and the uneasing (ph) travel restrictions to Cuba.

PEREIRA: Greece becoming the first developed economy to default on its debts to the International Monetary Fund. The country did not make that $1.7 billion payment owed under an earlier bailout. Greece now asking for a two-year bailout from Europe, its third in six years. The country is said to be asking for $32 billion. Finance ministers will discuss requests, again, today.

CAMEROTA: All right. Back now to our top story.

The manhunt may be over, but the fallout continues, with 12 prison employees put on leave. An escapee, David Sweat, reveals he and Richard Matt practiced their getaway the night before breaking free.

Let's talk about all this with retired U.S. Arthur Roderick. He's the former director of the U.S. Marshals Service.

Mr. Roderick, thanks so much for being here. It's very interesting that David Sweat is now talking, according to state officials, and he's talking a lot.

One of the things that he claims is that he was the mastermind of this entire escape. Now, why would he be telling authorities that he was the mastermind? What's in it for him?

ARTHUR RODERICK, RETIRED DIRECTOR, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: Good morning, Alisyn.

I think this is just feeding his ego at this point. I mean, everything that comes out of his mouth at this point has got to be corroborated. I mean, they already have a lot of information. They know, basically, what the plans were. And they just have to bounce it off, compare it to what Mitchell is saying from her side.

Obviously, with Matt being deceased, you know, you're never going to get a story, you're never going to get the true story as to what happened.

So I think what you've got now is an individual who's just trying to feed his ego. He's a narcissistic psychopath, so you're going to hear a lot of this stuff. Now some of it probably is true. I'm sure the basis of it is true. But you're going to get a lot of embellishment coming from him at this point.

CAMEROTA: OK. Another thing that he is saying, he said they did a dry run before they actually escaped. So listen to how the D.A. explains what they did first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WYLIE: They did get out to that point of the village and did

actually pop one of the manholes up. They felt that, due to there being a number of houses in that area, that it might not be a good spot to exit from. And so, they located a manhole in between that manhole and the tunnel system where they escaped from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:15:25] CAMEROTA: Mr. Roderick, what do you think of that possibility, that they made it as far as the street in a manhole; they poked their head out, didn't think it was a good place, and went back into the prison for the next night?

RODERICK: Well, I think it just tells you how emboldened they were about the security currently going on at the honor block. I think, obviously, the inspector general for the state of New York and the FBI are looking at exactly what was going on in that cell block area.

I'm just glad that it didn't seem, at this point in time, to go out into the general population, this type of lax security. But I think the honor block is where they have to concentrate their efforts. And it's -- you know, we have heard of dry runs in the past in other major escapes that have occurred in the United States. But obviously, that just comes down to a complete lack of complacency and security on the part of the guards.

CAMEROTA: Erin Burnett had a chance to talk to David Sweat's mother on CNN last night. And she had a theory for why she thinks he's now talking, as well as who she holds responsible. So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SWEAT: No, he always told on himself all the time, when he was a kid. I wasn't really surprised that he did it.

I still say to this day, if that woman didn't -- and whoever else was involved, didn't give them that stuff, those guys would have never broke out of jail. They wouldn't have had nothing to do it with. So, I kind of, you know, I blame them as well as the two guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: His mom is blaming Joyce Mitchell and the other prison guard for providing the tools.

RODERICK: Yes. I mean, obviously, they needed help to get out; and what Mitchell provided and what the tools were able to do for them obviously got them out of jail. I'm not surprised she's making that -- that connection.

I mean, obviously, law enforcement is making that connection at this point. And if they were in a safe -- if they were in a care and custody type of environment, then this would have never happened to begin with. CAMEROTA: OK. So care and custody type environment. How does

that look different than what they were in?

RODERICK: Well, I mean, probably, if you look at what was going on in the general population, that's more of a care and custody environment than the honor block where you didn't have to wear prison garb. You had very loose security. You were able to get to different parts of the prison that the rest of the population wasn't allowed to. You were basically a trustee.

And, you know, I still question the fact, how can you put two people on it that committed murder, No. 1, and committed murder in the way they did in that type of environment.

CAMEROTA: Yes. All of those questions need to be answered with this investigation. Arthur Roderick, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

RODERICK: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. Say it with me, USA! USA! The U.S. women's soccer team heading to the final of the World Cup, the American women shutting out Germany, only the best team in the world. Not anymore. Two-zip. A gripping match.

Let's bring in CNN's Andy Scholes. He has the details.

Is it time to ring up Teddy Goalsevelt?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Chris, you know, this was an amazing win for Team USA. They knew all along that they would have to get past top-ranked Germans if they wanted to win it all. And last night's semifinal game, top-ranked team in the world versus the second-ranked team in the world. It definitely lived up to all of the hype.

The game was scoreless in the second half. And Germany, they had a golden opportunity to take the lead on a penalty in the 60th minute. But their shot would be wide left. And then moments later, Alex Morgan gets taken down in the box, giving the U.S. a penalty of their own.

And Carli Lloyd, who's just been awesome in these past few games, just drilled it home to give the U.S. the lead.

Lloyd when then find Kelley O'Hara in the 84th minute, and put the game away. Team USA pulls off the upset, beating Germany, two to nothing. They now advance to the World Cup final.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JILL ELLIS, COACH, TEAM USA: We knew we had this in us. This team had a lot of confidence and, you know, we've done a really good job of blocking out you guys and distractions and, you know, I think just focused on what we need to do. And, you know, we had every belief that we could win this game.

CARLI LLOYD, TEAM MEMBER, TEAM USA: It's just been a collective team performance. But we didn't come here to just make the final. We came here to win it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: So Team USA awaits the winner from tonight's match between England and Japan. The final is going to be Sunday night at 7 Eastern.

And Chris, four years ago, Team USA lost a heartbreaker to Japan in that final game in penalty kicks. And you know, they're not going to say it, but you know Team USA would likely want a rematch against Japan, if they had their choice.

[06:20:03] CUOMO: A lot of due excitement around this. And you know, but Teddy Goalsevelt, you remember him in the men's World Cup.

SCHOLES: I do remember him. He was your best friend down there in Brazil.

CUOMO: We need him; we need the women's equivalent of him. I don't know what figure in history we're going to call on, but it will be great. It will be great.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, my daughter, my 10-year-old daughters are soccer players. They were so riveted but the screen that, at times, they had their hands over their eyes. It was so suspenseful for them.

PEREIRA: It really was.

CAMEROTA: And truly stressful.

PEREIRA: And also some really good moments we saw during it. There was one moment there was a penalty against a U.S. player. The Germans missed it. And the girl who, you know, the penalty was on her, she thought that she, you know, cost the game, and all the team rallied around her. That's such a great instructive moment for kids that are watching.

CAMEROTA: There are good lessons in that.

CUOMO: Great team. Great team. In the 8 a.m. hour, we're going to talk live with two of Team USA's players. You're seeing them on your screen. Kelley O'Hara scored the Team USA second goal, which they really needed, obviously, and Abby Wambach. It will be really great to have them on.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, they say three is a crowd. What about 14? More on the latest CNN/ORC poll...

CUOMO: It's a party.

CAMEROTA: ... and how these Republican presidential candidates... PEREIRA: It is. It's the Republican Party.

CAMEROTA: ... how the Republican candidates measure up against each other and the Democrats. We'll have all that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:25:09] CUOMO: There is a poll worth hearing this morning. Some surprises in the CNN/ORC poll. Some good news for Jeb Bush, but also for Donald Trump. The pair are now the only Republican candidates with double-digit support.

Bush is 19, Trump following at 12. Remember, this isn't just New Hampshire. This is overall. Trump is in the race, and he just leapfrogged all of these other people.

Now, the other headline is, when they line up against Hillary Clinton, they're both taking a beat-down at this point. Still early. But what does it all mean? We have CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker," Mr. Ryan Lizza. And Steve Adubato, political and media analyst and author of "You Are the Brand."

CAMEROTA: Steve, how do you explain that, in the middle of all the controversy over Trump's Mexican comments, that he's No. 2 in this poll?

STEVE ADUBATO, POLITICAL AND MEDIA ANALYST: You're going to ask me to explain Donald Trump? I mean, I have no idea. I'm here, so I'd better try.

CAMEROTA: We're asking you to -- no, the respondents. I mean, these are Republican respondents. What are they seeing?

ADUBATO: You've got to be kidding me. I mean, I sat there and I said, when I saw Donald Trump and heard Donald Trump say what he said, those horrific things about Mexican immigrants, I thought, "So there it is. We finally see who Donald Trump really is." I mean, most of us knew.

And then people said, "Oh, a candidate who says what he thinks."

I'm thinking you're kidding me? And sure enough, my analysis is this. People are tired. Most people or many people, at least those who vote in the Republican primary, are tired of people who try to figure out what people want to hear. And they say, "At least Trump says what he thinks." It may be crazy; it may be off the wall.

In the next day, he may be backpedaling, which you are, Donald Trump. You know you're doing that. You know you're trying to figure out how to say you didn't really say what you said.

And the fact is, Chris Christie is trying to figure out, "Wait a minute. That was my role." Except Chris Christie has a real job and has to be accountable for what he says and does. Donald Trump doesn't, unless he loses a contract with NBC. CUOMO: Ryan, is there a chance that his surge in the poll is

about his popularity in celebrity, despite, not because of, what he said about the immigrants?

RYAN LIZZA, "THE NEW YORKER": I think absolutely. I think that Steve is right. There is a sort of visceral like for someone in the Republican primaries who is, one, very anti-Obama and very, sort of, very conservative on some of these immigration issues. Conservative voters are not where Jeb Bush is.

But I wouldn't mistake his support in this poll for some kind of, you know, dominance in the Republican primaries. We saw this phenomenon in 2012, where we had a big Republican field. Remember this? Remember, Michele Bachmann was leading in the polls in the summer of 2011, and then there was this phenomenon of a candidate a month surging and then declining. But one candidate always staying up there with solid support. It was Mitt Romney, versus someone else. And every month, there was a new someone else.

I think that's what this poll shows, is that you have Jeb Bush, who has solid, consistent, growing incrementally support, and then there's always someone else. So this poll is good news for Bush, bad news for all of his establishment or possible establishment opponents.

CAMEROTA: Well, sure.

LIZZA: Trump is taking from Rubio. He's taking from Walker. He's taking from all those would-be challengers. And those guys need to break out.

CAMEROTA: Ryan, that's a great point. In fact, if I can put the poll up again, you can see that, in fact, he has stolen something like eight points from Rubio. I don't know if you can give Donald Trump all the credit. But Rubio is down from his high of 14 percent, now down to 6 percent. Scott Walker had a high of 10 percent in May, now 6 percent.

LIZZA: And not to get subjective, but if you dig into the internals of this poll, that is what's happening, Alisyn. He is -- the voters, they're older, whiter, more conservative voters; and they're sloshing around from Rubio to Trump.

ADUBATO: Part of the problem here is this. Rubio and Walker have to figure out what they really want to say. They can't accept the fact that, hey, they did OK in polls and it's surprising some people, so let's just not do anything. Let's just not say anything. Let's just keep our campaign operation going.

The thing about Trump that stands out is he says things that are provocative. They're off the wall, but I'll say this. Chris Christie, who announced yesterday, has this challenge before him. If he can get into those debates and he can get on those -- that stage, and I've interviewed him many times. People know that he has a heck of a personality. Yes, he's got Bridgegate, and yes, he's got the economy in New Jersey. Yes, you have credit downgrades. But if he gets on that stage, my view, he stands head-to-head

with Donald Trump. He's the only guy that will look him eyeball to eyeball and can stand him down. The rest of those candidates are afraid, crazy -- they are afraid, Chris, of Donald Trump.

CUOMO: I hear you on brand, and I hear you why they're afraid of Trump. They don't want to go toe-to-toe and play his game. They don't talk as well as he does.

But let me ask you something about Christie, knowing him the way you do. Do you think that he can win New Jersey in a presidential primary?

ADUBATO: New Jersey, it's a good question, except here's the issue. If you don't either win New Hampshire or do well in New Hampshire, you don't get to New Jersey. Because the way the New Jersey primary is set up so far.

CUOMO: But I'm saying just theoretically.

ADUBATO: Right now...