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New Day

Interview with the Deputy Secretary of State Tony Blinken; Sanders Draws Huge Crowd In Wisconsin. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired July 02, 2015 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:32:57] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Extra innings, overtime right now in the nuclear discussions with Iran. Secretary of State John Kerry is in the middle of the discussions right now. Can a deal be struck by July 7th? The first deadline was June 30th.

So, where are we right now? What are the latest on the negotiations?

Here's a man with us who knows, the deputy secretary of state, Tony Blinken, here with us.

Thanks so much for being here.

TONY BLINKEN, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Thanks for having me.

BERMAN: June 30th was the deadline. Where I come, a deadline is a deadline. The new deadline though is July 7th. Is that rock solid July 7th or bust right now?

BLINKEN: You know, we have been at this for almost two years and it was worth taking a few extra days to lock in the commitments Iran has already made when we announced the basic elements of the deal in Lausanne a couple of months ago. And that's what we're working toward, because the single best way to prevent Iran from getting the material for a nuclear weapon is to get this deal done.

BERMAN: That means it could go past July 7th?

BLINKEN: Well, it could. But I think we're very, very focused on getting it done over the next few days, and we'll. We'll know if Iran is prepared to make good of its own commitments. Whether it has the political space to do what it said it will do, or if it doesn't. As you heard the president say the other day, if it is not prepared to make good on its commitments, we'll walk away.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: CNN just received a statement from the vice president of Iran. It sounds like they have a different take on this, not surprisingly, than what you're saying. They say that hopefully the deal will be finalized and signed. All of this depends on the demands of the 5-plus-1 countries. If they come away from their, quote, "excessive demands", then for sure, an agreement will be signed. Is the U.S. looking for excessive demands? BLINKEN: Absolutely not. What we are looking is what was agreed already in Lausanne. And the challenge has been, taking these basic elements that were clear and translating them to a details agreement. When you do that, that's when the differences start to emerge.

CAMEROTA: Right, such as inspections. I mean, so the U.S. would like an international group, IAEA, to go in to see if Iran is keeping their promises. However, the ayatollah, as you know, has said they would not allow this near the military sites.

[06:35:01] So, is that the condition that the U.S. would ever give on?

BLINKEN: The short answer is no. Inspections are absolutely critical to this deal. And if we don't get them, we won't make the deal. There's a lot of posturing going on, people are making statements. They're playing to different constituencies, different audiences. I think that's what's happening.

But at the end of the day, the bottom line is, if we don't have the verification, the transparency, the inspections that we need to make sure Iran is not developing material for a weapon, we don't have a deal.

CAMEROTA: So, what inspections would you be willing to give up?

BLINKEN: Well, this is exactly -- we're not going to give on anything. What we need to do lock in in detail exactly what the inspection regime would involve. That's what they're working on right now.

BERMAN: Does it have to be military sites?

BLINKEN: Any place that the IAEA has concerns about the possibility that Iran is developing material for a weapon, they need to have access to that site, military or non-military.

BERMAN: It has to be nuclear scientists, free and unfettered?

BLINKEN: So, there are people, there are places, there are documents that the IAEA will need to have access to. All of that is what's been negotiated right now and it's the details that country. And if the details are not there, we won't have a deal.

But my sense is that the Iranians have invested a lot in trying to get to this point. And we'll see if they are prepared to do what's necessary to lock everything in.

CAMEROTA: You think ultimately they will acquiesce to allow free and unfettered inspections?

BLINKEN: Well, again, if they don't, we won't have an agreement. And they need an agreement. They need it more than we do. And the president is very clear about this, if the international community is not satisfied that we have what we need to be able to tell the world that Iran is not going to develop material for a nuclear weapon, there's no deal.

BERMAN: Let me ask you about a place where we have a deal already, with Cuba. Just opened up diplomatic relations with Cuba and the embassy going to be in Havana. The embassy in Washington, a Cuban embassy. But one of the questions is, will there be an actual ambassador to Cuba from the United States?

Florida Senator Marco Rubio says, not on my watch. Let me read you a quote. He says, "It remains unclear what, if anything, has been achieved since the president's December 17 announcement in terms of securing the return of U.S. fugitives being harbored in Cuba. I intend to oppose the confirmation of an ambassador to Cuba until I see these issues addressed.

BLINKEN: Well, look, I hope we do get an ambassador when the time comes. Yesterday, I actually took a -- received a letter from President Castro to President Obama to reestablish the diplomatic relations and we sent a letter from Obama -- President Obama to President Castro yesterday as well.

You know, we shuttered our embassy 54 years ago, the year before I was born. So, my memory and I suspect yours is a relationship that had no diplomatic relations. What we are hearing overwhelmingly from the Cuban people is that this is what they want. They want this relationship to be reestablished, we ought to listen to them because that is a quicker path, surer path to more freedom, more openness, more democracy in their country.

Now, they're going to have an ambassador here. It would be unfortunate to penalize ourselves and not have an ambassador there. More and more Americans are going to Cuba. We need an ambassador, an embassy to make sure that their interests are being protected.

And most important, we have an ability now to engage more with the Cuban people from our embassy. Have them come to our embassy, have our diplomats travel around the country to hear their voices. All that will be much more effective if we have an ambassador in place. But first things first, the embassies will open in -- toward the 20th of July. And then we'll move from there.

CAMEROTA: We want to ask you about ISIS. There had been attacks just this week, Tunisia, Egypt, Kuwait. It feels as though ISIS is expanding its reach. Is it?

BLINKEN: We've seen two things. The al Qaeda, which was the group that we were dealing with after 9/11, its core has been decimated in Afghanistan and Pakistan. But what's happened over the last decade or so is that the problem of groups has metastasized and groups are springing up in different parts of the world, including some of the countries that you just mentioned. And ISIS is the new force in town.

So, we put together a coalition of more than 60 countries to deal with this problem, to cut off the financing, to cut off the foreign fighters, to deal with the messaging.

CAMEROTA: But it doesn't seem to be working when we're seeing these brutal attacks this week.

BLINKEN: Well, it is working but it takes time. And the president is very clear about this, it's going to take time.

Let me give you an example, because we get a lot of bad news and sometimes we lose focus on what's happening. Iraq, over the last year since we had this coalition in place, the territory controlled by ISIS is down 35 percent. Thousands of their people have been killed. Much of their material has been destroyed. So, they're actually moving backward in Iraq.

BERMAN: Backward into Ramadi, which they didn't control before. They still are in Mosul.

BLINKEN: Well, Ramadi --you're right, Ramadi is a particular place because it's in Anbar province, a Sunni province. You had predominantly Shia Iraqi military going in, a kind of alien force. What the prime minister is doing now in Iraq is he's enlisting and trying to mobilize more Sunnis to get them into the fight, and they will fight for their towns, they will fight for these cities, they'll fight for their lives.

That's the trajectory in Iraq, and it's moving in a better direction. But it's a challenge. It's going to take time. But we have more than 60 countries now in this fight working together to try to stop ISIS.

BERMAN: Deputy Secretary of State Tony Blinken, thanks so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: Thanks a lot.

BLINKEN: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

[06:40:01] CAMEROTA: Let's head over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right There's much debate about the Confederate flag. Again, renewed conversation about it. Should it stay? Should it go? You might be surprised by the results of that and other numbers in our latest CNN/ORC poll. We'll have that for you, ahead.

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CAMEROTA: A new warden now in charge of the New York prison where Richard Matt and David Sweat made their getaway. He is implementing many new measures including stepped up searches of cells and gates in the facility's tunnels.

David Sweat now telling investigators that Richard Matt found a sledgehammer in the prison tunnels that they used to break out. He also claims that Joyce Mitchell wanted her husband killed. A lawyer -- her lawyer denies that claim.

PEREIRA: Pentagon officials say they are confident in its strategy to combat ISIS in Iraq and Syria is working, despite the terrorists' large grip in both countries. Defense Secretary Ash Carter says training and equipping forces in those countries is helping the cause. He credits the efforts of Kurdish forces in the north, along with Syrian opposition groups in the south in gaining back territory.

BERMAN: New details this morning about Trans Asia Flight 235 that crashed in Taiwan in February that killed 43 people.

[06:45:04] Investigators found that the captain mistakenly switched off the plane's one working engine after the other engine lost power. The plane was designed to be able to fly on one engine. The captain also had trouble with simulator training less than a year earlier, struggling on how to respond to an engine flameout.

CAMEROTA: Well, the women's World Cup final is now set. Your -- is it paining you?

BERMAN: I can't even watch this.

PEREIRA: Heartbreak.

CAMEROTA: After England's heartbreaking 2-1 loss to Japan. England's own player accidentally knocking in the game-winning goal. That is something I would do. Gosh!

The U.S. women will play Japan Sunday for the championship. It's a rematch of the 2011 title match when Japan beat team USA in a penalty.

PEREIRA: It's one thing to lose, but to lose like that.

CAMEROTA: Even I get that.

BERMAN: No, it's never easy being English. And I think this makes the whole thing that much worse this morning.

PEREIRA: @JohnBerman on Twitter, that's the best way to get ahold of him if you would like to do that. Hey. And there he is in full effect.

All right. Take a look at this, a tornado touched down in Missouri Wednesday night. It tore through Jackson County. That tornado sent trees flying, knocking out power for thousands.

Let's get to Chad Myers in the weather center to find out what to expect in the area going into the weekend.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, another batch of weather today through Saturday, even into Sunday, Michaela. The storms are still going this morning, now stopped in Louisville into Nashville, almost to Memphis later on this afternoon into today.

We'll see storms in Knoxville. We'll see storms in Atlanta and Chattanooga throughout the week and to the weekend. If you have firework plans, make sure to take an umbrella from Louisiana on up to North Dakota, North Carolina, and all the way back even into Boston. A couple showers are possible.

Hey, where's that Cuomo guy today, out fishing? CAMEROTA: Probably.

BERMAN: He was too scared to come in to face the news today.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: He is. All right. Thanks, Chad.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: You too.

BERMAN: All right. Thousands of people coming out in support of, who? Bernie Sanders. Feel the Bern! Ten thousand people filling the stadium. How much of a threat is he to team Hillary and what is the Clinton campaign going to do about it? We'll take a closer look.

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[06:51:34] SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do they know there are some 25 candidates running for president of the United States? But tonight we have more people at a meeting for a candidate of president of the United States than any other candidate has had in 2016. Thank you!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Nearly 10,000 people coming out in Wisconsin to support presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders. Look at this, look at the crowd.

Does the Vermont senator pose a real challenge to Hillary Clinton?

Joining us to discuss this and so much more this morning, CNN political commentator and Republican consultant, Margaret Hoover, and CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast," John Avlon.

Great to have you guys.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Look at that crowd, Margaret.

HOOVER: Look at that crowd. Well, I will just say Ted Cruz had 11,000 people at his liberty speech, but it was a mandatory attendance for everybody.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: See, these are people voluntarily who showed up to feel the Bern, as he says -- feel the Bern.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: There is a real legitimate groundswell amongst principled progressives across the country.

What's interesting here is Bernie Sanders is not in Iowa and South Carolina. He's in New Hampshire. But he's not driving after all the votes in these primary states. Instead he's going to liberal bastion across the country, generating a groundswell and movement of energy amongst populists to energize the ideology of the Democratic campaign, not so much to win votes.

He may do that in the meantime, but why is he going to Denver? Why is he going to Minnesota? Why is he going to Wisconsin? He's going to -- that's where the groundswell of liberalism is.

CAMEROTA: So, a real threat, John?

JOHN AVLON, THE DAILY BEAST: Not a real threat to Hillary Clinton's nomination. But it is absolutely a signifier that the progressive left is more active and resurgent in the Democratic Party. The true believers want somebody they can truly believe in and Bernie Sanders remits a totally guilt-free snack. He's not going to be the nominee. You can support him wholeheartedly. You can give him a small donation, but do so without the burden of thinking he's actually going to be the president of the United States.

HOOVER: I don't know about that.

BERMAN: So, what does Hillary Clinton do about the guilt-free snack? Does she come out against hummus here? She's got $45 million in the bank which we just learned yesterday, you know, fundraising. Does she spend any of that against Bernie Sanders?

HOOVER: It's really hard, by the way, for the candidate who's running on reforming campaign finance reform to have $45 million of hard dollars in the bank and then to spend it against Bernie Sanders. That's just going to anger the troops even more.

AVLON: You don't want to stomp Uncle Fluffy to death. That is a dumb idea.

The point is here is that she really needs to build up for a general election. She's focused on the general. She doesn't need to overcompensate for the left. She's already probably the only figure who can bridge those divides.

And more importantly, just a reality check, just if you look at her possibility, she is probably the most liberal nominee of the Democratic Party since George McGovern.

BERMAN: She is not the nominee yet.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: No, she would be.

CAMEROTA: Do you think she's more liberal today than Barack Obama was eight years ago?

AVLON: I do. Yes.

Not only is she in favor of marriage equality, but she's tact consistently on guns, gay rights issues. She's really running on a progressive plank and progressive plank. And that is something that whether it makes the de Blasios of the world happy really is sort of irrelevant. She's going to walk that line to be able to unite the Democratic Party.

BERMAN: Can we talk about Donald Trump for just one second?

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: -- before the substance here. George Pataki, who was actually running for president, came out and wrote a letter to the other Republicans saying, we've got to stand up against what Donald Trump is saying about Mexican immigrants here.

What kind of problem is Trump creating for the other people running right now, Margaret?

HOOVER: I don't think Trump is creating a problem at all.

[06:55:00] I think he's going to flame out very, very quickly. I think his financial disclosures are going to be a problem.

And I think he's a flash in the pan. I think he's peaking early. But I think when Iowa voters and New Hampshire voters who are serious people, they get in front of the candidates multiple times, six or seven times in their own homes. This guy, great sound bytes, kind of, except they are racist. I mean, so not so great.

But they understand there is actually no substance there in terms of the policy solutions. Is this guy going to be a responsible president? I actually have a lot of faith in the Republican primary electorate, that they're actually not going to pull the lever for Donald Trump when it comes to Iowa and New Hampshire.

CAMEROTA: Can I throw some new polls at you? Interesting new poll numbers in -- a new set of polling on the Confederate flag debate. We have been talking about it a fair amount here. What I found interesting, 55 percent of people support the removal of the flag. I think we have those polls from government property. Yet, 57 percent of the country believes the flag is a symbol of Southern pride rather than racism.

What do you make of that?

AVLON: Look, I think that the country is majority white in terms of its population and the conversation we're having about the Confederate flag has been around moral empathy, seeing the flag through others' eyes. I think for folks who grew up, we had a debate about "The Dukes of Hazzard" being removed from TV Land. There has been a sanitized vision where people said it's heritage not hate have won the debate. But that, of course, doesn't express the actual history or the impact it has on people whose ancestors have been directly impacted by that tyranny, not rebellion and civil liberty. So, that's still a conversation that is being had in the country. But the recognition it has no place across the population on a state capitol grounds, that is a step in the right direction.

But this is a longer historical process in dealing with history, not simply erasing it.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Sorry, speaking of erasing history, I mean, there's another -- CNN has a new poll that also suggests the support for renaming streets that are named after Confederate leaders, 26 percent of whites support that, 33 percent of blacks support that. But why -- I mean, are we sanitizing now our entire history?

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: When you look at those polls, African-Americans on whether you should take Confederate leaders off street names, they are about evenly split. Here's the difference between the flag and confederacy. The flag actually was put up on the statehouse in South Carolina during integration because people didn't want -- they didn't want to have to deal with public accommodations. They wanted to continue what was a very contemporary racism, right? That isn't heritage, that's racism.

And so, the flag on public grounds versus what you could actually potentially make of the heritage argument with the Confederate army generals, General Lee --

CAMEROTA: They really happened. They really existed. This was part of history. Are we supposed to sanitize this?

AVLON: No, no. I think that's where -- the four most important words in politics, as George Will said, is up to a point. And the question is, what is that right balance?

I think when we resort to banning things as a first course of action, it can actually make everybody feel good but it erases history and it does us no service. So, I think achieving that balance should not run into the realm of immediately banning things to make ourselves feel good because it makes us dumber in the long run.

PEREIRA: Smart conversation with the Hoovalons.

HOOVER: Thanks, guys.

PERIERA: Appreciate it, guys.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for being here. Great to see you.

All right. So, we are following a lot of news this morning. Let's get right to it.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A major shakeup behind the prison walls. A new superintendent along with new rules.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Convicted killer David Sweat revealing shocking details about his escape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're looking at a possible conspiracy to commit murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's unprecedented security precautions going into place right now in New York City.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Armed police, bomb-sniffing dogs and radiation detection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To prevent terror attacks over the July Fourth holiday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The United, American and Southwest airlines have received demand letters from the Department of Justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A coordinated price-fixing scheme.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you have four major airlines controlling 80 percent of the domestic market.

BERMAN: Respect "The New York Times" but not buying peas and guac. Guac-gate, as I like to call it, is the one true bipartisan issue.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: Good morning. And welcome back to your NEW DAY. Chris Cuomo is off for the day, but this man, John Berman, or so he's called, joins us this morning.

BERMAN: I'm going by this morning.

CAMEROTA: Is that working good?

All right. We are going to tell you about the changing of the guard at the Clinton correctional facility, following that brazen escape of two convicted killers. There is a new warden and new security protocols in place after three top prison officials and nine workers were put on leave.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, captured escapee David Sweat is shedding more on the breakout and his three weeks on the run with Richard Matt. He's also directly implicating Joyce Mitchell in the plot to kill her husband.

Let's get right to CNN's Jean Casarez. She is live outside the prison in Dannemora, New York, with all the latest -- Jean.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. So many changes here. We do want to tell you, we have just learned

that the body of Richard Matt right now is in transport to Buffalo, New York. His family is claiming the body.

Meanwhile, David Sweat is being asked so much by authorities. But the big question is, can they believe him?