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Surfer Fights off Shark; Media Fueling Trump's Momentum? Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 21, 2015 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:33:43] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK FANNING, PROFESSIONAL SURFER: To walk away from, you know, a shark attack with not a scratch on you, it's like - it's - it's a miracle, really.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: That was pro surfer Mick Fanning reacting to his terrifying close encounter with a great white shark Friday - or Sunday. Did you see that? Here it is. The world champion surfer fended off an attack by punching the shark in the back. He emerged from the water unharmed.

What would you do if you came face to face with a shark? I'd want to have this man with me so that he could defend me. He's the director of the Florida program for shark research, George H. Burgess. He's back on the program with you.

We liked you so much the last time, we had to bring you back for this. What was your reaction when you saw what Mick Fanning went through? What was your - what was your thought?

GEORGE H. BURGESS, DIRECTOR, FLORIDA PROGRAM FOR SHARK RESEARCH: Well, of course, it was just as interesting or terrifying for me as it was for everybody else. Of course, the area where this attack occurs in False (ph) Bay, South Africa, is a well-known white shark area. And, in fact, surfers there are cognizant of that when they enter the water.

PEREIRA: Yes, and I think all surfers are sort of shark aware at the very least, I'd imagine. Do you think Mick Fanning was lucky or do you think he did something right in his encounter?

BURGESS: Well, he did something right. He survived, obviously, and he wasn't - wasn't cut. So, yes, that shark came up. Looked like an investigatory sort of situation. And - and then got sort of wrapped up, it would appear, with his - his leash, the line between the surf board and his ankle. And he - he pounded on it with his fist, which was the right thing to do to show him that - that he meant business and it was a happy ending.

[08:35:22] PEREIRA: Because, bottom line, if I remember from what you've told us before, sharks aren't that interested in us humans, are they?

BURGESS: That's true. And in this case, if this was a full-blown attack, it would have come barreling out of the water and grabbed him. This he kind - the shark kind of sidled up to him and checked him out. I think was - was interested mostly in the board. But, of course, you're sitting in the water next to a 12 to 15 foot shark, you could assume the worst.

PEREIRA: Yes, you have to, with all those teeth, they've got to do something. So you talk about this. They get - they're curious creatures, are they not? You talked about this, they get - they're curious creatures, are they not? You talked about - with us before this idea of sort of a hit-and-run. They kind of nudge to sort of explore what's going on?

BURGESS: Yes, white sharks are very well known for their exploratory behavior. In fact, a good way to attack sharks for photography purposes is just throw a piece of Styrofoam in the water. So they'll come on up and grab it. So, yes, they're very interested in floating objects. Perhaps it's an exercise in practice for when they want to do the real thing.

PEREIRA: All right, so let's talk about the real deal. I mean, it seems crazy to talk about it, but it seems like we're talking about shark attacks more and more these days. What do I do, George, if I'm nose to nose or if I'm in the water on a boogie board or a surf board or just even standing waist deep in water and a shark comes up? How do I best defend myself?

BURGESS: Well, of course, if it's coming toward you, if you can pop it on the nose, that's a good thing to do. It's - it will startle the animal and more times than not it will veer off, allowing you precious second to get out of the water. But remember that you've got to aim carefully, just south of the nose is the mouth. And you don't want -

PEREIRA: Yes, not - not - right, that's a good point.

BURGESS: You don't want to - you don't want to miss. And then, of course, if you're actually in the - in the mouth of the shark, the eyes and the gill openings, the five slits behind the eyes are very sensitive. And if you can gouge those with your fingers, if you have the wherewithal when you're in the mouth, that might get them to let go.

PEREIRA: So it sort of acts as a distraction by doing that. It's not necessarily going to make them - render them helpless, but it will serve a bit - as a bit of a distraction, enough time to maybe get you out of the jaws and onto shore?

BURGESS: Yes, I mean, it's the same thing as if somebody's attacking you on land. You stick your fingers in his eyes, he might stop attacking you.

PEREIRA: I better try that on Chris sometime. He's a verbal attacker.

So in terms of the research your program does, you guys have been tracking shark attacks and shark bites. Are you noticing a marked rise? Are you noticing a trend to the increase?

BURGESS: In general, there's a very slow increase in the number of attacks. And that's gone on since 1900. And that's totally related to the fact that there's more humans on earth every year than in the previous year.

PEREIRA: Sure.

BURGESS: So we get an increase no matter what. Is this year a particularly high year? No.

PEREIRA: It isn't?

BURGESS: I think one of the things we're seeing is, is - well, of course, you know, in North Carolina, which got all the headlines, there it was, we had a high number in one place for a short while. But the reality is, is that we're not. And I think what - it's a perception problem. Everybody out at the beach is a reporter now. Everybody's got a cell phone taking pictures and it gets - gets to you guys at the mainstream media very rapidly.

PEREIRA: Yes. All right, well, George Burgess, we appreciate you coming on and talking sense to this - to us about this. It is concerning, but we're really glad to know Mick Fanning is a-OK and survived it. All right, thanks so much.

BURGESS: Good to be with you.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn, we know to go for the eyes next time Chris decides to verbally attacks us. Or the gills.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That's what you took away from that segment.

PEREIRA: Yes, (INAUDIBLE).

CAMEROTA: I was going to punch a shark in the nose, but there - there was other (INAUDIBLE) in that segment.

PEREIRA: (INAUDIBLE) shark.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Land shark.

PEREIRA: Land shark. He's a land shark.

CUOMO: What I didn't - what I loved was George's nonchalant about how when you're in the mouth of the shark, go for the eyes and the gills.

PEREIRA: Oh, I know. I know.

CUOMO: If you're in the mouth of the shark, you've got like 50 razor blades in your body right then.

PEREIRA: I feel like it's - yes, exactly.

CAMEROTA: Yes. PEREIRA: But, again, it's remarkable to look at that video, when you see that fin go by Nick Fanning - Mick Fanning, you could say Mick is done for.

CUOMO: Did you just see that?

CAMEROTA: I did see that. I think that was (INAUDIBLE).

PEREIRA: It's (INAUDIBLE). But he came out unscathed.

CUOMO: Keep kind of - keep my legs up out - out of the flow (ph).

PEREIRA: There's a shark behind you. Don't panic.

CAMEROTA: It's going to the dogs and the joke (ph) -

CUOMO: I'm followed on Twitter by a shark, by the way, Catherine the shark, a great white.

CAMEROTA: Oh, I think you have shown me that.

CUOMO: Yes. She does a lot of negative spin. She's always trying to invite me to meet places.

CAMEROTA: Do that. I say that should be completely safe.

CUOMO: She's like, we should have a meal together. Also known as a la Cuomo.

[08:39:58] CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, Donald Trump is getting a lot of media scrutiny and he's turning the tables on them. We break down Trump's war on the media and vice versa with two famous members of the media.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Human trafficking, you've heard about it, it happens in like eastern Europe, right, that's where it is? Wrong. Teens, even kids are sold right here. In a ground-breaking CNN special, Jada Pinkett Smith investigates sex trafficking in Atlanta, Georgia, that's one of the nation's hubs, to uncover how children are being sold for sex.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JADA PINKETT SMITH, ACTRESS: When my daughter was 11, she came to me and she said, mommy, did you know that there were girls that were being sold for sex that are my age in this country? And I was like, I think there's a mistake. That doesn't happen here.

After that, it was just - I remember I was stuck to the computer for days. Story after story after story. And I couldn't believe that I didn't know.

SMITH (voice-over): Daila Racine knows. She's DeKalb County's assistant district attorney.

SMITH (on camera): Would you say that there's a difference between prostitution and trafficking?

DAILA RACINE, DEKALB COUNTY ASST. DA: Trafficking is the manufacturing of children for the sex trade. They're just getting sold and passed on from one exploiter to the other. And a lot of times it's because they don't know another life after this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:45:13] CUOMO: Be sure to watch the CNN Special Report, please. "Children for Sale: The Fight to End Human Trafficking," tonight 9:00 p.m. Eastern, of course, here on CNN. And if you care about this issue and want to impact your world, you can. You can find ways to make a difference for this cause and others. You just go to CNN.com/impact.

CAMEROTA: That looks fascinating. I can't wait to watch it tonight.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump is still surging in the polls. But some in the media are calling for him to drop out of the race. Donald Trump versus the media, coming up.

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[08:49:59] JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: Can you imagine being tortured for five and a half years in a Vietnamese prison camp and then 42 years later, the host of "Celebrity Apprentice," a man who -- the closest he ever got to battle was a fight with Rosie O'Donnell -

(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)

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CAMEROTA: Comedians call Donald Trump the gift that keeps giving, but others in the media are calling for Trump to end his campaign, which is maybe only helping his campaign.

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and host of "Huff Post Live," Marc Lamont Hill. Also joining us by phone, Bill Carter, CNN contributor and former television reporter for "The New York Times."

Great to see you, Marc. Let's talk about your other place of employ. "Huffington Post," they have decided to relegate Donald Trump and coverage of him to their entertainment pages, not to their news pages. He is leading all of the other Republicans in polls right now. How can they justify that?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the justification is that this is not a serious campaign, that it's disrespectful to the voters, that it's disrespectful to the public and as a result, it makes more sense to be on the entertainment page. That's what he wants. He wants to be a sideshow.

I disagree with that position. I believe that if he's leading -- even if he's not leading the polls, he's in an election, he is in a national presidential election, he belongs in the politics page. I think it's disrespectful to voters, I think it's condescending. I think it absolutely does the opposite of what we're supposed to be doing in media. We're not supposed to be picking winners and losers here.

And, you know, I spoke to someone - And again, you know, we've had this debate at "Huff Post Live," so it's not a secret. I said, well, what if he wins? What if he's the nominee? Will we still have him on the entertainment page? They said, well, then we'll look silly. No, I think at this point we look silly by not putting it in politics because he's a politician. Let him run out.

CAMEROTA: Bill, what do you think?

BILL CARTER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (on the phone): I can't agree more. You can't step back and say we don't consider this guy serious when he's literally leading the polls and driving the narrative. I mean, right now, he's driving the narrative in the Republican Party. By the way, if you turn on CNN, he's on all day on a news channel so he's news. He's not entertainment.

CUOMO: Bill, what do you think about the media's role in the momentum of Trump? How much of it is the media? And is it right what the media is doing?

CARTER: Well, the media is doing something that is legitimate in the sense that the guy is making news. He's clearly out there making statements that are making the other candidates react and therefore they're covering all that. If that wasn't happening -- If everything he was doing was absolutely silly and pointless and a sideshow, I don't think he'd be 24 percent in the latest ABC poll. He's obviously making impact. You can't deny it. You may disparage it, you may say it's not something we like, but it seems to be true. It seems to be happening.

HILL: And Chris, the other piece of this is that media produces candidates all the time. We told people Fred Thompson mattered. Voters didn't think Fred Thompson mattered. No one voted for him. But we told them he did and eventually he became the candidate. We've been asking people if they're ready for Hillary for two years and ignored Bernie Sanders for two years.

CUOMO: Do you think this is about Trump the man or do you think it is about the mood that he's tapped into in that aspect of the GOP Right base?

HILL: I think it's both. I think he's a celebrity and people like celebrities. But people like - So Roseanne Barr was a celebrity and didn't have this kind of popularity because it's the other piece you just mentioned. In addition to the celebrity, it's the fact that he's tapping into something, whether it's the immigration stuff, whether it's other stuff.

Unfortunately, there's a sector of the American people who are looking for that. And not all racists and xenophobes, either. Some people just want tough talk, they're tired of politics, as usual, and this appeals to them. I don't think they vote for him, but I think it does appeal to them.

CAMEROTA: But Bill, I mean, the media is not all powerful. If it weren't resonating, the media, No. 1, wouldn't be covering it . And the media can't even force respondents of a poll to say who they like best. This is a chicken and egg argument. Isn't it that he is actually resonating and that's why the media is covering him so much?.

CARTER: Well, yes, and I think the media also ought to be talking about why he's resonating. I mean, he seems to be tapping into some sort of anger in the Republican base and he's as outrageous and bombastic as he can be. It's scoring points. It's making these Republicans respond and the rest of the field has to look at that and say why? What's going on with our base? Do we have to respond to that ourselves?

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: He's having it both ways, which I think is interesting. It's not a criticism where we're covering him a lot because he's getting traction or as "The Des Moines Register" says, "The distraction with traction." And he's also making us his problem. He's victimizing himself with us. He keeps doing these phone or interviews and yelling about how he's been taken out of context and yelling about how we're all out to get him. And it's working for him, as well.

HILL: It's working for him in the short term. But again, I think voters are smart. I've always believed that voter are smart. We sometimes like to pick winners and losers for voters because we think they don't know what's in their best interest. The truth is, he appeals to them now because he's popular but when it comes time to walk into that voting booth or pull those straws in Iowa, it's going to be a very thing and it's going to be a whole different game.

CAMEROTA: Bill, very quickly, "The Wall Street Journal," "The Des Moines Register" have come out with scathing editorials saying that basically he should get out of the race -- at least "The Des Moines Register." Does that help or hurt him?

[08:54:59] CARTER: I think it probably helps him because he's going to be able to say, look at these people, they're trying to drive me out of the race, they're trying to deny the chance that you have to vote for me. I agree though, I think it's a lot different to say in a poll, I support the guy (ph) and when you get in the voting booth and maybe it will be different.

But right now you can't make that call if you're in the media. You have to look at all the things that you normally look at, which is who's the frontrunner. He's the frontrunner right now. You can't deny it. That's the fact. Those are what the polls are telling you. He'll be in the middle of these debates and again, he'll be driving the narrative.

CAMEROTA: There you go. Marc Lamont Hill, Bill Carter, great conversation. Thanks, guys. CUOMO: Coming up, "The Good Stuff" and it's about Donald Trump. No, it's not.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: So we're talking a lot about what people say versus actually do for veterans. Well, here is one group that is the real deal actually doing something about it. Right?

Monday was the 19th annual Renewal and Remembrance event at Arlington Cemetery. It's held by the National Association of Landscape Professionals. Hundreds of lawn guys, tree guys, planters, landscapers, men and women, donate their time and talents just to beauty Arlington.

CAMEROTA: Oh, nice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To do your life's work in the landscape profession and to give back on these hallowed grounds caring for trees and turf, those things that comfort those that come visit, it really means a lot to these professionals.

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