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Trump Coming Down to the Border; New Details in the Sandra Bland Death Investigation. Aired 7:00-7:30a ET.

Aired July 23, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00] DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Later today. It is the border between the United States and Mexico of Laredo being a place quite active. That's part of the reason he's coming here. Another reason is because the head of the local border patrol union has been pretty active about asking politicians to come down and asked Donald Trump to do the same. There was a report earlier about whether the broader union would allow that to happen, but Donald Trump's spokesman texted me a short while ago saying it is still on. Alisyn?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. I'll take it here, Dana. Thanks so much for that terrific reporting. Ahead here or right now actually Trump is also opening up about his faith in his one-on-one with Anderson Cooper. He calls himself an honorable man of conviction who does not believe in asking for forgiveness.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So forgiving, that notion of Forgiveness, that's not a Central thing for you.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I try not to make mistakes where I have to ask for forgiveness for one thing. So when I ask a question like that, it's like, I don't like to make a lot of mistakes.

COOPER: So I know it's a detail, but the idea of repentance, is that something important to you?

TRUMP: I think repenting terrific.

COOPER: But do you feel a need to?

TRUMP: If I make a mistake, yes, I think it's great. But I try not to make mistakes. I mean, what do I have to - why do I have to ask for forgiveness if I'm not making mistakes.

COOPER: You talk about the communion, the Eucharist and talk about drinking wine and having my cracker.

TRUMP: You are having fun. The room laughed.

COOPER: Some say...

TRUMP: They didn't say that at all. When I left, I saw people - I got - I got the biggest ovation of the weekend. I saw people. And I saw how a couple reporters made a big deal of that. We were having fun. When I said I drink the wine, I eat the cracker. But we're talking about communion. And you know what? The whole room was laughing and they are religious people, they are great people. They are great people. But the whole room was laughing.

COOPER: Erika Erickson said based on your comments based on faith on Saturday, it is, quote, largely closed the books on evangelical support.

TRUMP: I don't think so. Because I just saw a poll out of Iowa that I'm doing really well. I mean, you know, in terms of Iowa, where it's a very big group of people. I was doing really well.

COOPER: The Quinnipiac poll in Iowa among general voters.

TRUMP: Right. I don't know you keep bringing up negative, you only want to talk negative ones. Why don't you bring up the positive. You started out the interview - you started off the interview with a poll that I didn't know existed.

COOPER: I intentionally started out with that - you accuse me of that.

TRUMP: All I know is that every poll I'm leading in, you give me the two polls where it is different states. They are not even a national.

COOPER: For the record, I started out a Washington, where you are being way out of line. It's a Quinnipiac poll.

TRUMP: OK. It's not even a poll.

CUOMO: That I can remember, it's not even a poll. Joining us is a CNN Political Commentator and Republican Consultant, Margaret Hoover. CNN's Political Analyst and Editor and Chief for the Daily Beast, John Avlon. The headline and this actually matter, what is going on with Trump, he is saying he may run as a third party if the RNC - whatever the basis is, that could make a difference. We'll pop up the poll to show a three-way race between Hillary, Jeb Bush and Trump. He takes a bigger bite out obviously of Bush.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Look, I'm an independent and a big fan of third-party candidacies and they can do a lot of good on a national level. The Ross Perot model the closest we have. History was rewritten a lot. He actually was part of a protest vote against the incumbents. But Republicans should be concerned in the macro sense. We are a long way out of seeing this anything more than a threat.

CUOMO: Your wife is dyspeptic.

AVLON: Well, sometimes but I love it.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, and here's the major difference between Ross Perot and Donald Trump. Ross Perot, besides the hair, Ross Perot actually stood for something. Ross Perot is running not just a protest vote but on balancing the budget and physical discipline. Donald Trump needs to be for something instead of against everyone in the republican field.

By the way, immigration may be his issue, but it is not just let me build a wall, I have $15 billion. He needs to stand for something substantive and serious.

AVLON: There - there's really important point to make, just to add to what Margaret is making, Ross Perot was a third party candidate, he was pro-choice, Donald Trump is running as a conservative populist saying the republican establishment is not treating him with respect and he supports too far to the right. That's a different part of independent candidacy.

CAMEROTA: I talked to the Trump supporters yesterday about what they like him so much and it's possible he doesn't need a policy to hang his hat on. What they say he represents and what they believe he's running on is making America great again.

They believe that he personifies the American success story and that he talks about wanting to make this country number one again. And that they are responding to.

[07:05:00] HOOVER: I think, I hear that a lot. And I think in the context of the republican primary, that will get you some juice early on. But if you're really going to mobilize a massive group of millions of people for a national election as a third-party candidate, I think you're asking for a different set of support and a different kind of support. You need more serious policies. You need real policies. You need something other than that.

CUOMO: But let's get real, you know, he's leading in polls right now. So let's do him the service of not just calling him a clown and taking him seriously for a second.

CAMEROTA: You have to take him seriously.

CUOMO: We'll do some real talking for a second. One of the founding fathers fears was a strong man could rise up in a democracy in times of instability and frustration and offer people strong and clear solutions. That's a bold fear. And that's the appeal he's making right now. He is a pure strong man demagogue. The fact that's the root of his appeal we should be taking that seriously.

HOOVER: Are you writing a book on George Washington right now? Oh, you are.

CAMEROTA: Using that model, are you suggesting they have guards against them in the electoral college. That won't be possible for a third party to rise up in that way?

AVLON: Well, our count constitution talks about the checks and balances in place. When we live in the fact-free zone, throw a bunch of bombs, throw demagogue appeals and candidates who are serious like Rick Perry and Lindsey Graham are fighting to get into a debate. That's tragic.

CUOMO: So you're upset about what Trump is doing that you say serious candidates like Rick Perry. Why do you believe...

AVLON: He's the three-term governor of Texas.

CUOMO: You don't think he disqualified himself last time?

AVLON: No, I don't.

CUOMO: I'm not putting Governor Pataki and Governor Perry in the same category.

HOOVER: Rick Perry did more this go-around. He's shocked the heck out of me. He's had an important speech about racism.

CUOMO: He talked about what Donald Trump may do to the republican party what happened to the wig party in 1854.

HOOVER: Here's the thing though, these are national polls. We are way overplaying Trump here. If you look at the early polls, yes, he's taking off right now but taking a lot of oxygen. Guess what happens? You flame out. He's not leading in Iowa or North Carolina or New Hampshire, he is not leading in South Carolina.

CUOMO: He's exposed something your party is ignoring, a mood of discontent. It's a little bit reaping what you sow. You told everybody what is wrong with the administration and now they are angry. And you're not feeding the beast that are coming out.

AVLON: That's exactly right.

HOOVER: That's exactly why I said the republican party needs a sister moment. Jeb Bush, all the guys on the top need to call out the extremism on the right. They need to stand up to him and call him out. By the way, Jeb Bush isn't going to win those voters anyway. Be a leader.

AVLON: And Jeb Bush may have done it a little bit, but Perry and Lindsey Graham have been doing it clearly and consistently in running. Especially Graham's campaign. And he deserves better than asterisks in the polls in the debates.

CAMEROTA: Let's listen to Rick Perry's recent comment right now.

RICK PERRY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservativism and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised and distorted. A toxic mix of demagoguery, and mean spirited and nonsense that will lead the republican party to extradition.

CAMEROTA: Imagine more foreseeable comments than the metaphor with cancer.

AVLON: Look, it's about damn time. Is that serious, there needs to be a moment where people stand up to extremism and serious there needs to be a moments for people to stand up to extremism in their own party and demagoguery appeals. We've seen it consistently.

CUOMO: People are liking it.

AVLON: That's the point, radio thought? The point is you have to stand up when people are simply throwing red meat and distracting you.

CUOMO: But they are made at you, not you. People are always mad at me. My own family is mad at me. But people stand up and say, no, don't stand up, you're the owner mad at. We're mad because of you. We heard it in Alisyn's panel.

HOOVER: Let's be honest, it's not like nobody has been talking about immigration the last three years. Marco Rubio pushed a bill through the senate, but it was on immigration.

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump started the immigration national debate. Do you not give him credit for that?

HOOVER: Well, everybody has been talking about it anyway. The reason he cut through is because of his celebrity factor, right? It's not that nobody else is talking about it. It's that he has the elevated profile. People know who he is because of "The Apprentice" and the other things. But that actually is on us. Our culture and celebrity culture has cut through a political topic more effectively than politicians. That's a problem for us.

CAMEROTA: Margaret, John, great to see you guys. Thank you so much.

[07:10:00] CUOMO: We have more of Anderson's interview. He was pushing Donald Trump for ideas and Anderson will join us to discuss the interview in the next hour.

We're also we'll be joined by a congressman named Henry Cuellar. We'll ask him about the key notion of Donald Trump that it's Mexico's government sending us their worst people.

PEREIRA: Right now we have new details in the Sandra Bland death investigation. Texas police say Bland hanged herself in her jail cell three days after her arrest. Jail records seemed to indicate that she has tried to commit suicide before.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is following all the developments for us, he is in Hempstead Texas this morning, Ed?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn, well, over the last few days the arrest video has gotten a great deal of attention here, but now things seeming to shift toward the autopsies and more information expected and being revealed about that.

New details about Sandra Bland's condition have been revealed by local law enforcement.

ELTON MATHIS, WALLER COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We have an initial report that she did have quantity of marijuana in her system. However, we are waiting to make any kind of formal determination of that.

LAVANDERA: The Waller County District Attorney also says the preliminary autopsy result shows some scars on her arm.

MATHIS: Yes. Opinion from the medical examiner it appears to be cutting, scars on the arm was like where someone has been cut over time. Some of those actually appeared to be fresher and that they were scabbed.

LAVANDERA: On this police intake questionnaire, Bland notes a previous suicide attempt by way of pills after a miscarriage in 2014. But on the other page the answer to the question of attempted suicide is no. Conflicting information leaving her family with continued doubts.

SHARON COOPER, SISTER OF SANDRA BLAND: I have a hard time dealing with inconsistency. And that seems to have happened over the last couple of days here. So I don't have a problem still asking questions.

LAVANDERA: Investigators are now analyzing DNA evidence on the trash bag allegedly used in Sandra Bland's hanging. And on Wednesday police released another version of the dashcam video of Bland's arrest but this one, three minute shorter than the original.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car. Get out, now.

LAVANDERA: Attempting to clear up the visible anomalies in the footage where cars and people disappear and reappear chalking it up to glitches to an error in uploading. And for the first time, we are hearing from Sandra Bland while in police custody. A haunting voice message to her friend the day after her arrest.

SANDRA BLAND, VOICEMAIL MESSAGE TO A FRIEND: Honestly, I'm just at a loss of words about this whole process. How did switching lanes with no signal turn into all of this, I don't even know. But I'm still here so I guess call me back when you can.

LAVANDERA: And while we have seen results from the preliminary autopsy and we know the Bland family ordered their own independent autopsy but we are still waiting to hear the results from that, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. It will be interesting to get the results when you do, Ed. Thank you so much.

President Obama you remember made it a top priority to close Guantanamo bay shortly after taking office. Here's what he said in 2009.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Guantanamo Bay will be closed no later than one year from now.

CAMEROTA: OK, fast forward to today and Gitmo, the place that the president calls an improvement tool for terrorists is still open.

CNN's Athena Jones is live at the White House with the latest. What are they saying, Athena?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn, that's right the prison is open despite being one of the first promises the president made when he got to the White House back in 2009. He's faced a lot of obstacles to keeping that promise. Now he's trying to get it done. Take a listen to the press secretary Josh Earnest.

JOSH EARNEST, PRESS SECRETARY: The administration is in the final stages of drafting a plan safely and responsibly and to present Guantanamo Bay to present that plan to congress. It is a priority of the president. He believes it's in our best interest to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay.

JONES: Now, as Earnest mentioned, any plans to close the prison would have to go through a congress and as congress presented some of the biggest obstacles like for instance the ban on transferring any detainees to prisons here in the United States. You've also had a lot of folks in congress who have criticized deals made already to transfer prisoners to other countries before they return to the battle field. But this remains a big problem for the White House dealing with the 122 detainees still at Guantanamo Bay. The White House says it

is not just a recruitment tool for terrorist, it's also a waste of taxpayer money costing at about $150 million a year to run. So they are really trying to get this done now.

Chris?

CUOMO: All right. Athena, thank you very much. A federal grand jury has indicted the gunman in this South Carolina church putting on hate crime charges. Dylann Roof is accused of killing nine Black church members in Charleston last month. The indictment makes him eligible for the death penalty. The charges are in addition to the state department charges brought against roof after shooting the justice department has not decided if they will seek the death penalty.

[07:15:00] PEREIRA: Some frightening moments aboard a royal Caribbean cruise ship. A fire broke out in a mechanical area of the boat. One crew member suffered first-degree burns. You can see the thick black smoke apparently that could be scene billowing from the freedom of the seas pulling into port in Jamaica. Passengers had on life vests and had to head to drill stations. The fire was put out by the Ship's suppression system. Not quite the vacation in paradise

people were planning on.

CAMEROTA: Right. Sometimes the cruises turn out not to be a vacation paradise.

CUOMO: Yes. Or at least certainly emphasize.

CAMEROTA: We do>.

CUOMO: Moments when they happen. They can be amazing, it's like a floating hotel, but when things go wrong, you're stuck on a boat. PEREIRA: That's right.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile the mystery surrounding Sandra Bland's death grows this morning. A jail form indicates she mentioned a previous suicide attempt. But her family did not buy that. We'll speak with a judge investigating what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: There is new information this morning in the jail cell of Sandra Bland. Officials released a document that show that Bland told jail staff that she had previously tried to commit suicide. However, her family says she was never diagnosed with being depressed.

Here to discuss, Waller Country Texas Judge Trey Duhan. Judge Duhan, thank you so much for joining us. I understand an autopsy has been performed on her body, toxicology testing has been done as well, what can you tell us?

[07:20:00] TREY DUHAN, WALLER COUNTY TEXAS JUDGE: Well, Michaela, thank you for having me this morning. I can tell you we will be releasing the results of that Autopsy either today or tomorrow. I can tell you that the autopsy report is going to show several things.

One, it is going to show that she had very high levels of marijuana in her system. It's also going to show that other than some bruising on her wrist, presumably from the handcuffs and bruises on her forearm, and some scratches on her back, there was no significant trauma to her body other than the ligature marks on her neck to indicate any kind of a struggle or otherwise.

PEREIRA: Why is the marijuana in her system considered paramount or material to the case? It doesn't point to why she ended up dead in her cell, does it?

DUHAN: Well, I think any information which goes to her mental or physical state from the time of the arrest to the time of her incarceration is going to be vital to the investigation.

PEREIRA: I want to look at the forms that were released and I think we can show them on the screen. There is one form that indicates she attempted suicide in the past. And there's handwriting, we can't ascertain this is hers or whoever did the form, but the intake says she tried to commit suicide in 2014 due to a miscarriage. That she used pills to do so, but there's discrepancy because on another page of the form there's a typed answer saying no to the question of attempted suicide. We don't know why that discrepancy.

At the very least, sir, should she not have been under some sort of suicide watch in that cell?

DUHAN: Well, Michaela, what happens is when they come into intake, first you have a jailer who typically sits down with the inmate and he goes through the checklist and writes down the answers that the individual is giving him. In this case, they also, I believe, brought her back three hours later and had her sit down in which they went through the questions again and interviewed them directly into the computer.

So the answer in the inconsistencies you're seeing are the answers she gave the individuals at that time.

PEREIRA: OK. What about the point of being under some sort of suicide watch?

DUHAN: Well, at the time, if you also notice on the forms when they asked her the questions of whether or not she had any suicidal thoughts or thinking of committing suicide at this time, she answered no. Based on her demeanor in talking to the jailers, they didn't see anything indicated to them she was having any tendencies to that effect.

PEREIRA: You can understand my pushback on that. 2014 was just last year. If someone had attempted suicide after having a miscarriage, one would want to take extra precautions with that person, no?

DUHAN: Well, there's no doubt you have to be very careful. And we have a lot of inmates here and you have to evaluate all of them. Our jailers are not medical professionals. They evaluate them to the best of their ability. And when somebody's in, we make sure, like I said, she was making phone calls while she was in jail. They even brought her out and let her make free phone calls from the desk. And they had no indications like anyone else said in this case, there was no indication she was inclined to do something like this.

PEREIRA: Until the very end, you can understand, sir, why the family and so many others are wanting questions answered. Because there have been discrepancies on the form, there have been discrepancies on the surveillance video. There are unexplained time gaps from the prison, we are not talking about the original arrest video.

This was a young woman in the prime of her life on her way to a job interview that did not signal. Yet three days later she ends up dead. In her voice mail she may sound tired, but to many people she doesn't sound like someone on the brink of ending her life. What is your response to all of that?

DUHAN: Well, and obviously, I mean, to anyone looking at the situation saying that she didn't appear to be anyone who was on the brink of injuring her life, I think that would also have been a situation that appeared to the jailers. And I would like to make sure this is clear, too, in terms of her arrest, that was done by a state trooper with the Texas State Department of Public Safety.

PEREIRA: Yes.

DUHAN: I'm county judge for Waller County. The first time we had interaction with Sandra Bland was when she was brought here to the county jail. We always make every effort to accommodate. We put her in a cell. She had every indication that she was making phone calls and trying to obtain the bond to get out after it was set on Saturday. Why that didn't happen, I'm not the one to answer that question. And I understand perfectly well why there are questions. I met with the family two days ago and understand they have questions that they want answers. And it is our intention to make sure all the information is on the table so that those answers can be received.

PEREIRA: Well, Judge Duhan, we really hope the family and others get the answers and wish you luck with the investigation. Please keep us many the loop when you find out more answers. Thank you for joining us today on "New Day."

Chris?

[07:25:00] CUOMO: All right, Mic. Republican Presidential Candidate Donald Trump is telling a Washington newspaper, he has not ruled out a third party run for the White House. Could that move derail the 2016 race for the GOP? Maybe. The explanation on "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Welcome back to "New Day." There's so much to talk about in the world of politics. Let's go to John King with "Inside Politics." Have at it, John.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So much Alisyn, so much of it circling around the candidacy of Donald Trump will be down at Texas in the border today. Let's go Inside Politics on a very interesting day. With me to show the reporter on the inside CNN. Looking to the border in a minute, Donald Trump was interviewed by Anderson Cooper yesterday. I want to hear your take on this.

He offended Mexican immigrants and John McCain, is that presidential? Or if you were to win, hold on to that possibility, if you were to win, would you change your tone?

COOPER: As president of the United States you're going to be hit by half the country out there.

TRUMP: It's true. It's true. No, I think it's a little bit different. Right now I'm trying to do something to make the country great again. Politicians will never make this county great again.