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North Korea Orders Troops to Be Ready for War; New Poll: Trump Leading Bush in Florida; Jimmy Carter Begins Cancer Treatment. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired August 21, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: North Korea threatening war, exchanging fire with South Korea.

[05:58:45] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: North Korea is a very, very dangerous country. They are so irrational and so unpredictable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most tense place on the planet, a place where violence could break out at any time.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, they're calling it the summer of Trump.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's not about, you know, how great you are, how rich you are. That's not leadership.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: GOP rivals don't agree on much, but they agree on one thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret using the term "anchor babies"?

BUSH: I don't. I don't regret it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't regret it?

BUSH: No. Do you have a better term?

TRUMP: Excuse me. I used the word "anchor baby."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will Biden jump into the race?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Republicans have a, you know, bounty of good candidates. Democrats, they put all their eggs in one basket. And that basket ain't looking too good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome to you NEW DAY. It is Friday, August 24, now 6 a.m. in the East. And we do begin with breaking news. North Korea state-run media reporting leader Kim Jong- un has ordered troops to be ready for war after both sides traded artillery fire over their heavily fortified border.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Now South Korea is vowing to strongly retaliate if the north further provokes them. Is this saber rattling, or are they on the brink of war and how should the U.S. respond?

We have the story covered the way only CNN can. And we begin CNN's coverage with Will Ripley. He is live in Beijing. What do we know at this hour, Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, just within the last hour, the North Korean ambassador here in Beijing wrapped up a very strongly worded press conference, where he said that North Korean troops have now been mobilized along the entire length of the Demilitarized Zone, the DMZ, that separates North and South Korea. He also said that if the deadline of 5 p.m. local time on Saturday -- that's 4 a.m. Eastern Time, less than 24 hours from now -- if South Korea doesn't stop broadcasting anti-North Korean propaganda over the border, they say those troops will be ready to launch surprise attacks.

Now I visited the DMZ back in May. And a lieutenant colonel I spoke to there described it as the most tense place on the planet, where violence can break out at any time. There are more than a million standing North Korean troops, and three quarters of them are very close to the heavily-armed DMZ.

All of this is unfolding because of the joint military exercises happening now with the United States and South Korea. Those began on Monday, and they go until August 28, next Friday.

And here's a time line of what's been unfolding ever since. On August 4, a land mine exploded, injuring two South Korea soldiers. North Korea denying now that they placed the land mine. But then on August 10, in retaliation, South Korea started broadcasting propaganda, using large loud speakers, sending that message over the border into the north.

On Saturday, North Korea threatened indiscriminate strikes and then sent a warning letter to South Korea on Thursday. And on Thursday afternoon, that's when both sides traded fire. North Korea apparently launching a rocket, South Korea responding with 36 artillery shells.

And then today, Kim Jong-un saying that he is ready to put his troops in a wartime state, South Korea warning to retaliate. So it appears right now, Chris, that the situation is only escalating. And even though we've heard this kind of rhetoric before, this is particularly sensitive and a dangerous time.

CUOMO: All right, Will, thank you for setting the scene for us there in terms of what the provocations are on both sides. The question now is will South Korea concede to the North's deadline to stop that propaganda broadcasting by tomorrow morning?

Let's check in with CNN's Kathy Novak. She's live near the DMZ in South Korea with that part of the story. Kathy, what do we know at this point?

KATHY NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, it seems the short answer to the question that you were just asking is no. South Korea is refusing to stop its propaganda broadcast, and so it is preparing for further escalation.

This is what the defense ministry has to say. South Korea will strongly retaliate if there is additional provocation from North Korea, and South Korea is expecting that there will be. That is because North Korea is very, very angry that South Korea has restarted this campaign of psychological warfare, using these propaganda speakers along the border at the DMZ.

North Korea, as we know, likes to tightly control the message that it gives its own citizens, and with South Korea broadcasting its own messages, we heard, as Will was describing, North Korea threatening to blow up these speakers. And it has culminated in this escalation of tensions which seems to only be getting worse as the deadline approaches.

And, of course, as we know, this is all happening as the United States and South Korea hold joint military exercises, something else that makes North Korea extremely angry -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Kathy. Thank you so much for that.

So the U.S., as Kathy mentioned, is closely monitoring the conflict between both nations.

So let's get to CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, who has the latest for us in Washington.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

The Pentagon is going to continue those exercises with South Korea in a number of nations in the region. Those exercises designed, as always, to send a message north that the U.S. and the South Koreans are ready to respond if North Korea were to stage an attack.

But behind all of the rhetoric that we're talking about, the U.S. intelligence community looking for the reality. What is political theater by Kim Jong-un in the North, and what is the actual military reality on the ground?

U.S. satellites will be scouring for any indications of North Korean troops on the move, but also very critically, all the back-ups that they would need. Food, fuel trucks, ammunition, resupply. They have a lot of artillery near the border. They can absolutely stage an attack on almost no notice at any time they want.

But if he's talking about putting his troops on a war footing, he has to feed them. He has to provide fuel. He has to provide ammunition resupply. And quickly, very critically, the North Koreans experts at

deception. They have been moving in recent years to bury much of their weaponry underground. They can bring it out and use it very quickly, very difficult to detect. This is a big challenge for the U.S. intelligence community -- Alisyn.

[06:05:00] CAMEROTA: It sure is, Barbara. Thank so much for explaining all of that.

Let's now get some more context. We want to bring in Gordon Chang. He's the author of "Nuclear Showdown: North Korea Takes on the World." He's also a Forbes.com columnist.

Gordon, great to see you this morning. North Korean troops mobilizing at the border. What does this mean?

GORDON CHANG, FORBES.COM COLUMNIST: Well, it means that this is the way a war can start. This is what it would look like. Which is not to say that there will be war. I think North Korea could do a number of things to surprise the South Koreans and us. So for instance, we could see detonations of bombs in Seoul or something like that.

But nonetheless, there is probably going to be something terrible. And the reason is that inside the North Korean regime right now, there is turmoil. King Jong-un has executed two four-star generals this year. There has been a lot of fighting among him and his army officers. That can't be a good thing in connection with what we have seen the last four or five days.

CAMEROTA: Gordon, that's very ominous that you say that you believe something terrible will happen. Because you know, North Korea is so well known for saber rattling. But you think that this is beyond that?

CHANG: I'm sure that this started out as bluster and saber rattling. But these situations create a dynamic of their own. And so the problem for Kim Jong-un is that he may not be able to back down.

You know, I don't think that he's irrational, but he is unpredictable. He's even unpredictable by North Korean standards. I'm not sure that he knows what he wants to do. And I think that, because of the severe infighting at the top where we've seen about 85 senior officers and officials executed since he took over in December 2011, because of this infighting, I think that there's all sorts of untoward things that could happen and probably will.

CAMEROTA: North Korea has given South Korea a deadline of 4 a.m. our time here on the East Coast in the U.S. to try -- to stop the messages that they're broadcasting over those loudspeakers. Is that the answer? Can it just be de-escalated if the South stops the messages?

CHANG: Well, if the stops -- if the South stops the messages, it could de-escalate. But on the other hand, it could also escalate things, because Kim Jong-un, realizing he can push the South Koreans around, may try to get further advances.

Remember, he wants to bolster his legitimacy in the regime in general but also he wants to bolster his standing among military officers. And nothing is better than that than one success after another.

I don't know what the answer is in this particular case. But it's going to be consequential one way or the other.

CAMEROTA: Now all this began because two South Korean soldiers were injured by land mines. They were severely injured by land mines in southern part of the DMZ. Was that an accident or was this the North provoking them to begin with?

CHANG: Well, this certainly was not an accident. One thing we've got to remember is that North Korean soldiers have been defecting recently, and maybe the North Koreans planted those mines to prevent their own soldiers from going to the South.

But in any event, what we have is almost two fatalities among South Korean soldiers. And so that, in a sense, sort of limits what Seoul can do. Because there have been deadly incidents in the past in 2010, where South Korea did not react. And that only led to further incidents.

I'm referring to the sinking of the Cheonan, which is a South Korea frigate. Forty-six South Korean sailors lost their life. And South Korea did not retaliate. And that led to the shelling of a South Korean island in November of that year. Four people dead, two of them civilians. So there is an escalation ladder here.

I'm not so sure that Kim Jong-un knows how to play this skillfully. His father played it skillfully. His grandfather was good at this. I'm not so sure that Kim Jong-un knows what he's doing.

CAMEROTA: So Gordon, how does the U.S. normally handle this?

CHANG: Well, normally, what we would do is we'd get on the phone to Beijing and say, "Please rein in your North Korean allies."

But Kim Jong-un at the end of December 2013 basically started a process of cutting his ties with China. He killed his uncle, who was responsible for relations with Beijing. And then also, he executed one of those four-star generals that I talked about, because that general refused to cut ties with Beijing.

So, basically, what we have is a situation where North Korea is on its own. And we really don't have any pull with the Chinese; and the Chinese don't have pull with North Korea. And that's what's...

CAMEROTA: So now what are the U.S. options?

CHANG: The U.S. options are just to convince the North Koreans that we will destroy them if they engage in a full-scale mobilization and war across the DMZ. It's really just deterrence at this point. We don't really have any other options. CAMEROTA: Well, it just couldn't be more dire sounding. Gordon

Chang, we really appreciate all the context that you've given us. Thank you.

CHANG: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Let's shift over to the 2016 race. Now forget the "it's too early" part. Because it is not too early for a strategy shift. And that's what we see in the GOP field right now. Donald Trump and Jeb Bush are separating from the pack in recent polls, and they are now clearly focusing on each other.

[06:10:09] The big headline for you this morning is out of Florida. Trump is now leading the former governor, the Florida governor, Jeb Bush, among Republicans in Bush's home state.

CNN's Athena Jones is live in Manchester, New Hampshire, on the campaign trail with the latest. He had his first town hall up there, Trump. Now he's headed to Alabama where they said they were forced to move it to a football stadium, because so many people want to come.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Chris. It's getting more and more interesting. And look, Jeb Bush is getting some help now from his big brother. The former president sent out a fundraising e-mail, telling supporters Jeb has a tough road ahead. And that, quote, "With his strength and your support, he will succeed."

Now, this fundraising help comes as Jeb is facing his biggest hurdle, yet, that massively popular Donald Trump, who is drawing huge crowds.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: It's the summer of Trump. You know, they're calling it the summer of Trump.

JONES: The Donald Trump tour is making its way from the northeast...

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you.

JONES: ... to the south today. The Trump campaign hosting a Friday night pep rally in Mobile, Alabama, possibly boasting its largest crowd, yet.

TRUMP: They're going to end up being 30,000 to 40,000 people in Alabama.

JONES: The bombastic billionaire has been known to exaggerate his numbers.

TRUMP: And outside, sadly, we have thousands of people that can't get in. We have a lot of people outside, hundreds and hundreds of people

standing outside.

JONES: But perhaps this time, the proof is in the tickets. So many claim that tonight's event has been relocated, twice. It was first set to take place here in this civic center theater, occupancy 1,900. Then the center's larger arena, occupancy 10,000. But now, after the campaign says at least 35,000 have claimed tickets, the pep rally will kick up the turf here at this high school football stadium, capacity 43,000.

Meanwhile, one of Trump's leading rivals getting some unwanted questioning after using a phrase many consider offensive in a radio interview this week, "anchor babies."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, do you regret using the term "anchor babies" yesterday on the radio?

BUSH: No, I didn't. I don't. I don't regret it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't?

BUSH: No, do you have a better term?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not -- I'm asking you.

BUSH: You give me a better term, and I'll use it. I'm serious. Don't yell at me behind my ear, though.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry about that.

JONES: Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton's suggestion instead: "How about babies, children or American citizens?" An uncharacteristic defense for Bush, strikingly similar to Trump's unapologetic use of the phrase on Wednesday.

TRUMP: What else would you like to say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Child -- the American-born child of undocumented immigrants.

TRUMP: You want me to say that. OK. I'll use the word "anchor baby." Excuse me, I'll use the word "anchor baby."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: And one more point about that term, "anchor baby." The center right Hispanic Leadership Network, which lists Jeb as one of its advisers, said in a 2013 memo to avoid the term "anchor baby," because it's offensive. Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, we're not going to be hearing the last of that anytime soon, I'm sure. Athena, thank you.

New this morning, President Obama's approval rating declining slightly. In a new CNN/ORC poll say, 47 percent now approve of how the president is handling his job. That's down from 49 percent last month.

As for issues, only 38 percent approve of how Obama has handled the U.S. relationship with Iran. And support for the Iran deal also falling. Fifty-six percent of people say Congress should not approve the historic agreement.

But the president is trying to shore up more support for the Iran deal this morning, publishing a new op-ed in papers across the nation and writing a letter to Congress.

CAMEROTA: Former President Jimmer Carter revealing that cancer, first discovered in his liver, has spread to his brain. Carter scaling back his humanitarian work as he begins radiation treatment.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is live in Washington with the latest.

Hi, Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn.

Well, it really was an extraordinary press conference, because President Carter, he was warm. He was open and really, he seems to be at peace with his future.

I've been fortunate enough to have the opportunity to interview him several times in Atlanta, and he really is always the same: straightforward, generous with his time.

Well, now Carter is describing his battle with cancer as a new adventure that is in God's hands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): A rare and personal moment, out in front for the world to see.

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They think they got it all. But it's showing up now in four places in my brain and is likely to show up in other places in my body as the scans detect it in the future.

MALVEAUX: On Thursday, President Jimmy Carter received radiation treatment after doctors removed cancer from his liver nearly three weeks earlier. Carter's regimen: radiation and drugs to boost his immune system over the next three months. His family has a history of pancreatic cancer, which killed his father, brother and two sisters.

[06:15:16] CARTER: Now I feel, you know, it's in the hands of God and my physician. And I'll be prepared for anything that comes.

MALVEAUX: The 90-year-old former Georgia peanut farmer, who became the country's 39th president, is reflective about his life.

CARTER: The best thing I ever did was marry Roslyn. That's the pinnacle of my life, and we have had 69 years together. Still together. And so, that's the best thing that happened to me. MALVEAUX: Carter said his biggest regret as president was that

he was unable to free the 52 Americans taken hostage in Iran on his watch.

CARTER: I wish I had sent in one more helicopter to get the hostages. And we would have rescued them, and I would have been re- elected. But that may have -- that may have interfered with the foundation of the Carter Center.

MALVEAUX: And there was this question: if he had to choose.

CARTER: If I had to choose between four more years and the Carter Center, I would choose the Carter Center.

MALVEAUX: In 2011, I asked President Carter about the big picture.

(on camera): What would you like to be remembered in terms of your legacy for your presidency?

CARTER: Well, we always told the truth. We kept our country at peace. We put peace to other people around the world. And -- and we promoted human rights and never deviated from that commitment. Those are some of the things of which I'm proud.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: The Carter Center, the former first couple have traveled the world for the past three decades doing humanitarian work. Carter said while he'd still like to travel to Nepal in November for Habitat for Humanity, he's going to put his treatment first. But he does plan on teaching Sunday school this weekend as he does every Sunday -- Chris.

CAMEROTA: Wow.

CUOMO: Suzanne, people are getting exposed to the authenticity you've come to expect from President Carter. But it is not easy to talk about what he's talking about right now. It doesn't matter that he's older. It doesn't matter that he's done so much. It takes a lot of strength to do what he's doing.

Thank you for giving us perspective on him.

A little window into what President Carter is about. There's a child poet named Mattie Stepanek. He has since left us. One of his dreams was to meet Jimmy Carter, because he is a humble peacemaker. We contacted Jimmy Carter. We said, "Do you know about this kid?"

He said, "Send me the poetry." President Carter is a poet. He says, "This is good stuff. I want to meet this kid." Calls him on the phone, comes up to New York, goes on "GMA," surprises the kid, and meets him and talks to him about peacemaking. He had no motivation to do it except what is in his head and his heart. He's a good, good man.

CAMEROTA: That's a good story.

CUOMO: We wish him all the strength in the fight.

CAMEROTA: He's so sweet. And it's so sweet also to hear him talk about his wife and how that was the best decision.

PEREIRA: Lifelong love affair.

CUOMO: One of the most real guys in politics.

Breaking overnight, an underground explosion rocks a downtown Los Angeles high-rise. Fire trucks, emergency crews crowding Wilshire Boulevard. At least five people suffering minor injuries. Now CNN has learned the blast likely caused by a generator on the ground floor. The building sustained significant structural and water damage. More to come.

PEREIRA: Meanwhile, another explosion in New York City. This one at a high school last night. Witnesses say it was so powerful it felt like an earthquake. Crews were working on a gas line on the building's sixth floor at the time. We're told three construction workers were seriously injured. Investigators are now trying to pinpoint the cause of that explosion.

CUOMO: Donald Trump, from outsides without a chance to now it seems that his rivals can only hope to contain him. The Republican frontrunner prepping for his biggest rally yet. It's going to fill a football stadium in Alabama, he says. Our panel will weigh in on whether anyone in this field can beat him. Assuming yes, how?

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[06:22:52] CUOMO: They are calling it the summer of Trump, did you know that?

CAMEROTA: Or is he calling it that?

CUOMO: We don't know who "they" is, exactly.

CAMEROTA: I know.

CUOMO: But we do know that Donald Trump is certainly one of them. And he is saying he's bringing his campaign to a football stadium in the Deep South. A new poll shows Trump pulling ahead of Jeb Bush in the former Florida governor's home state.

So let's bring in some people to discuss what's going on here: senior political editor for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich; and political correspondent for "GQ" magazine, Jason Zengerle.

So let's start with you, Jackie. Needing a football field. It's such a big event that he's going to have to have a stadium that holds 43,000. Hype or proof of the populist momentum?

JACKIE KUCINICH, SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": You know, Trump seems to be exploring the same -- so OK, I think it's a little bit of both, first of all. It's very Trump to have to move something to a stadium.

But I do think Alabama is a place where the Trump voter lives. Someone who may be a lot more conservative than the average voter. Someone who agrees with his immigration policy. So I can see why there would be a lot of interest, particularly somewhere like Alabama.

CAMEROTA: Jason, so let's talk about this. Because the biggest number before this was Bernie Sanders in Portland, Oregon. He got 28,000 people turning out for one of his campaign stops.

If, in fact, Donald Trump gets 35,000 as he says that's the number of tickets that have been asked for, what does this mean on a larger scale? Does this mean he's not a flash in the pan or he's a showman and at some point things will level out?

JASON ZENGERLE, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "GQ": I think he's certainly a showman. And I think, you know, he has yet to show and Sanders has yet to know that they can actually translate those crowds into people who actually turn out to go to caucuses or go to primaries. And that's going to be a real challenge, to actually get these people who show up for these events to go and volunteer for the campaign and turn out and vote. You actually need an organization. He doesn't have that right now.

I mean, what he does have, though, is clearly, he has drawing power, and so does Sanders. And it's a summer, and you know, people want something to do. And, you know, I think that this high school football stadium will probably fill up with people who are -- you know, they want to see the show when the circus is in town. And they'll come check out Trump.

CUOMO: Jason, all right, so that's one side of it.

Jackie, let's take the other side of it, which is of course, he's not a flash in the pan. He's at the front of every poll. And yes, you need an organization to impress people like us, but you don't necessarily need it to have populist momentum behind you that can certainly carry into early primaries. Right?

[06:25:17] KUCINICH: Yes, but you do have to get people to the polls.

Look at Ron Paul, for example, the last cycle. Ron Paul, you'd go to his rallies, and they were giant. But at the end of the day, it's not President Paul. At this time last year, I think we would have had President Bachmann. So you really do need -- it is -- there's something to peaking early that's not that great. And you really do need an operation to get people to the polls on primary day.

CAMEROTA: Jason, let's talk about the latest dust-ups surrounding Donald Trump's immigration rhetoric. It has now sort of sucked Jeb Bush in, because Jeb Bush was on a radio show, and he used the term "anchor babies." "Anchor babies," of course, refers to the babies had by non-citizens who may or may not come here in order just to have babies and then establish citizenship. And it's considered a pejorative by many in the immigrant community. But Jeb Bush, let me read to you what he said. Because he's

being called out for it, but he did try to qualify. This was on a radio show. He says, "If there's abuse, if people are bringing -- pregnant women are coming in to have babies simply because they can do it, then there ought to be greater enforcement. That's the legitimate side of it, better enforcement so that you don't have these, you know, anchor babies, as they're described, coming into the country."

He was trying to use the term, because that's a they're described. But then he was caught up in it at a press event later. Here's how he tried to explain himself. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, do you regret using the term "anchor babies" yesterday on the radio?

BUSH: No, I didn't. I don't. I don't regret it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't?

BUSH: No, do you have a better term?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not -- I'm asking you.

BUSH: You give me -- you give me a better term, and I'll use it. I'm serious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor -- Governor...

BUSH: Don't yell at me behind my ear, though.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry about that.

BUSH: Geez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The language "anchor baby," is that not bombastic?

BUSH: No, it isn't. Give me another word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So Jason, I mean, basically, he's saying that we're having a semantics argument here when he was trying to talk about policy.

CUOMO: Zengerle's getting blasted out.

Jackie, you take that question while he gets his hearing back. You know, the question is this. Is "anchor baby" a legitimate way to call? A generation ago you know what we called somebody who came here to have their baby here, not where they were from? Grandma. OK? My grandmother did that. She came here from Italy pregnant and had one of my uncles here. Is there no other way to see having a baby here, other than as an anchor baby, which is certainly pejorative? KUCINICH: You know, I mean, you could just say "baby." You

know? You don't have to use a term that is offensive to a lot of people, particularly Latinos. And that's what's so odd about this. It seemed a little bit of a deviation from Jeb Bush's brand.

And I think when candidates get into that, when they start talk -- when they start using terms that you might hear from the more extreme, the more right-wing end of the party on immigration and on some other issues, you have to wonder where does he end up? And is that -- is that going to hurt him in the long run?

CAMEROTA: But I mean, again, his point, which he later clarified but I don't know that we have that to play, is "You can play the semantics game with me. And if you give me a better term I'll use it. I don't love the term 'anchor babies'," I think is what he's saying. But he's trying to talk about policy. Yet, it gets distracting because of all the overheated rhetoric.

KUCINICH: I mean, yes. I think that's right. And that's why you don't use the term, because then you have the distraction. You can't talk policy. So it's sort of a circular problem.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: But it's also a nonstarter to having any kind of conversation about anything other than exclusion. Because if you're going to start off calling the baby an anchor baby, well then you're really not talking about anything that would be seen as compassionate by a big group at that debate.

CAMEROTA: Right. In some way you're saying your position. Is what they're saying.

CUOMO: Yes. By the term.

CAMEROTA: Jackie, Jason, sorry for some of the audio issues. Thanks so much for being on.

CUOMO: Yes, sorry. Jason, if you're going to sue, do not include me in this -- Mick.

PEREIRA: Or me. I want out of that.

All right. Will he run? Should he run? Polls suggest Vice President Biden would do well against the top Republicans. Can we expect a decision soon? We're going to talk with an adviser to the draft Biden movement. That's ahead.

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