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New Day

Manhunt for Killers of Illinois Officer; Second Video of Deadly Shooting by Deputies; Baltimore Prepares for Potential Unrest; Trump and Bush Step Up Attacks. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 02, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Another police officer shot and killed in the line of duty.

[05:58:31] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are three suspects at large. A massive search is now underway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think they're going to leave a rock unturned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a very tough time to be a police officer.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A San Antonio man with his hands up, gunned down by officers.

MICHAEL THOMAS, RECORDED CELL PHONE VIDEO: He stand back and just put his hands up, and then they shot him twice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say he was armed with a knife and resisting arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man down. Additional shots fired.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Are these officers in reasonable fear for their life?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jeb Bush firing off his harshest attack so far.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In many cases, I probably identify more as a Democrat.

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Using his own words. It's not a mischaracterization. It came out of his own mouth.

TRUMP (via phone): He should do something, because he's got to fight back. And he's way down in the polls, and he's got to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to

your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, September 2, 6 a.m. in the East. Chris is off this morning.

And we begin with police departments across the country on edge. In Illinois, a massive manhunt underway for three suspects wanted in connection with the murder of a veteran officer. Schools in the area closed this morning as that search widens.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Also developing this morning, police in San Antonio facing threats after a video surfaces of two officers fatally shooting a man who appears to have his hands up.

Baltimore bracing for possible unrest, as hearings there begin for six officers are charged in the death of Freddie Gray.

We are covering all of these developments the way only CNN can. We start with Rosa Flores. She's live in Fox Lake, Illinois, where those three cop killers remain on the loose, Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

You're absolutely right. Cop killers on the loose and a community on edge. The latest on this investigation this morning is that it has all been turned over to the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force. But here is the back story.

It all starts at 8 a.m. yesterday morning when Lieutenant Gliniewicz was out in the community, investigating suspicious activity when he radioed into dispatch that he was in the pursuit of three individuals. Here is that radio exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you start for Fox Lake for an officer down, 128 Honing Road. We'll create the call. They were responding to a report of a suspicious, a male black and a male white. It appears the officer's gun missing now, as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the county units are responding to officer down, Fox Lake. Subjects are to be considered armed and dangerous. Air One has been advised.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now this, of course, unleashed a massive manhunt including state, local and federal authorities. Dozens of K-9 units were dispatched. Air support was also launched.

But here we are, nearly 24 hours later, and those suspects are still on the loose. And this community not only on edge. Schools are closed. But they, of course, are mourning today and this morning for that Lieutenant Gliniewicz, which we are told that he was one with the community, served 30 years in the police force, a father of four, a husband, and from what we hear, just a very, very generous with his time, giving back to this community day in and day out -- John. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Seems like everyone knows him. You can

hear the pain in the voices, coupled with fear now as this manhunt continues. Thank you so much, Rosa.

A video showing police near San Antonio fatally shooting a man who appears to have his hands raised. It is sparking outrage. Authorities now say there is a second video that provides a clearer view of the incident. Will the public, though, get to see it? CNN's Sara Sidner following developments for us, live in San Antonio.

Good morning, Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Yes, the FBI, we now know is assisting in the investigation along with the attorney's office and the sheriff's department. And we now know from the district attorney, who told me yesterday that he is looking at two videos, one of which a witness released to the public. The other one has not been released. And he says it is that video that is very clear and will help the district attorney's office determine whether or not to charge the officers in this case.

We want to warn you. The video that has been released that you're going to see in just a moment is very disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER (voice-over): Officials in Texas are now examining two videos. Capturing this officer-involved shooting in San Antonio.

THOMAS: He just shot that (EXPLETIVE DELETED), bro.

SIDNER: This video shows veteran officers Greg Vasquez and Robert Sanchez shooting and killing 41-year-old Gilbert Flores Friday afternoon.

THOMAS: They just cold-blooded shot that (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

SIDNER: Michael Thomas record the video and tells us he was surprised to see the officers open fire. And Flores clearly had at least one arm raised.

THOMAS: I was just thinking, like, if he stepped back, why would they shoot a man, after they had just kind of been going back and forth for so long? And then you see them after he steps back, not attacking or anything like that.

SIDNER: Officials say the second video, not released to the public, shows a much closer and clearer angle. The Bear County D.A. and sheriff both discouraging knee-jerk reactions.

NICHOLAS LAHOOD, BEAR COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I don't have to say anything. But anybody can get to that conclusion on their own when they look at the video. They're troubling. But what I encourage people to do is not react.

SIDNER: The officers arrived at Flores's house, responding to a domestic dispute call.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looks like the male that called it in assaulted his wife and child. So possibly two patients. And he is also threatening suicide.

SIDNER: When police arrived, they say he was armed with a knife and resisting arrest.

SUSAN PAMERLEAU, BEAR COUNTY SHERIFF: They also used -- tried to use nonlethal weapons to try and detain him. And after a lengthy confrontation, those deputies fired shots, causing the man's death.

SIDNER: Thomas first provided his video to CNN affiliate KSAP. On Monday, the sheriff's office labeling it as "unethical and sad" for the news station to purchase and air the video, also tweeting, "Broadcasting a man's death for $100 sparked threats to our deputies' lives."

To which the station said it's their obligation to inform the public, saying in part, "It is not uncommon for news organizations to pay for video from freelancers or citizen journalists."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: Now we can tell you that the district attorney says they will move swiftly in this case, as soon as they get the entire investigation handed over to them by the sheriff's department. We do know the family has retained an attorney who plans to sue the city, saying the family is extremely disturbed and mourning -- Michaela.

[06:05:07] PEREIRA: And that second video is going to prove so vital here. Sara, thank you so much for that.

Meanwhile, Baltimore is bracing for potential unrest as the six officers charged in connection with the death of Freddie Gray head to court. Our Jean Casarez is in Baltimore. She joins us now with all of the latest on that.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

This community is definitely aware that today is an extremely important hearing in the case of the six police officers that are charged in the death of Freddie Gray. In fact, the Baltimore Police Department is telling this entire force they cannot take leave today. So if they had a day off, they have to come in. This is to prepare for anything that possibly could happen.

We do understand there will be increased police presence around the courthouse, and community activists are actually encouraging peaceful demonstrations, peaceful protests. And the word around town is that they are encouraging people to go to the higher socioeconomic areas of Baltimore, all this because of this hearing today.

And the defense is really the reason for this hearing. They are asking the judge to dismiss some or all of the charges. They're asking that the state attorney, Marilyn Mosby, be recused from this case, that because of so many conflicts of interest, she cannot prosecute it, that a special prosecutor should be brought in. And also the question of whether these defendants should be tried together, or separately or in groups.

And another thing that is on the minds of a lot of people here is that state attorney Marilyn Mosby is due to have a fundraiser right here in Baltimore in about two weeks -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: It's complicated, Jean. Thanks so much for all that.

So for more on all three of these police incidents, let's bring in Matthew Horace. He's the senior vice president for FJP Security Services and a former ATF executive. Matthew, thanks so much for being here.

So we have these three troubling law enforcement stories to get through. Let's go through one where there's an active manhunt right now. This is in Fox Lake, Illinois. This is the one where police are looking for three suspects: we believe two white guys, one black guy, they believe, who shot their police officer. They don't have much to go on.

Here, let me just play for you the information that the dispatcher has. Here's the sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you start for Fox Lake for an officer down, 128 Honing. We'll create the call. They were responding to a report of a suspicious male black and a male white. It appears the officer's gun is missing now, as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the county units are responding to officer down, Fox Lake. Subjects are to be considered armed and dangerous. Air One has been advised.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All the police officer who was killed was able to radio in is that he was pursuing three people, three suspects on foot. Where do they even begin?

MATTHEW HORACE, FORMER ATF OFFICIAL: Well, they're going to begin to try to determine if anyone was at that scene or close to the scene that can give us some vital clues about the identities of those suspects.

CAMEROTA: But schools are closed today.

HORACE: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I mean, in three different districts. That -- the community is very scared. They do believe that maybe he took the officer's gun or it's clear they were armed since he was killed. That's not a lot. Two white guys, one black guy. It's not a lot to go on. HORACE: It's very difficult. But we've seen law enforcement

through the years solve crimes just like this with a lot less information. So I'm quite sure that everything we're hearing is not everything that they have. That's the first thing.

The second, boots on the ground. You've seen the organizations galvanized: federal, state and local. And they are following leads. They're allowing the information to drive the investigation. So while it may seem like we don't have a lot, I'm sure they have more than we're aware of.

CAMEROTA: And the fact three -- that school districts are closed. Does that tell you they do believe that these suspects are still in the area?

HORACE: Well, just like in other cases like this, Alisyn, if they are there and we still have boots are on the ground, there's is good intelligence that tells us that these suspects are in that area.

CAMEROTA: All right. Let's move on to Bear County, Texas. That's where we see these two police officer -- sheriff's deputies shoot a man who they have been called on a domestic disturbance. He appears in the video -- this is cell-phone video -- to have his hands up.

This is very disturbing video, because you watch someone be killed. But we do want to show it here so that you can tell us what you think. That his hands are up, and now, he's shot to death.

Matthew, explain what we're seeing.

HORACE: I don't think there's too much explanation necessary. The Graham v. Connor standard of objective reasonableness for use of force is very clear. And that's what law enforcement officers are guided by. In this case, there is no objectiveness or any reasonableness about what we just saw on that video.

CAMEROTA: When you look at that, as a law enforcement officer, you don't see any reason that they opened fire on him?

HORACE: I don't see any reason whatsoever why they would have. I understand that there may be some things that come into play about state of mind of the officers, but the individual's hands were up. He should have been arrested and brought in without using force.

CAMEROTA: They say that one of his arms is obscured by the pole in that video, that we can't see what's in his left arm and that he had a knife.

HORACE: Drop the knife, drop the knife, drop the knife. Verbal commands are the first form of escalation of force. We didn't see it. They may have done it. But certainly, when he was shot by officers, his hands were up in the air.

[06:10:06] CAMEROTA: And there's no justification for shooting someone with their hands up in the air, even if they have a weapon? HORACE: In 27 years of law enforcement, I've never seen one.

Every case is uniquely different.

CAMEROTA: Wow. That's a -- that's a strong assessment, Matthew.

Let's move on to what's going on in Baltimore. Pretrial hearings for the six officers involved in Freddie Gray's death, beginning in Baltimore. Obviously, it's a heated issue. It will be a heated trial. How is Baltimore preparing?

HORACE: Crisis Management 101. Expect the best, prepare for the worst. I'm sure that the state of Maryland, the city of Baltimore, the mayor, the police department, they are going with their intelligence. They're examining social media, and they're coming up with a crisis plan to ensure that any peaceful protests don't get out of hand and go into riot status this time.

CAMEROTA: So we're connecting the dots this morning on these three issues that are happening around the country. Do you sense, from your contacts, are police feeling more embattled? Are they feeling under fire? Or are we sort of putting a title to this that doesn't exist, this is just police business as usual?

HORACE: I think there are three things are going on. No. 1, the optics of our lives are very different. They're very different, because of cameras. They're very different because of social media. Police may be feeling a little bit more of a burgeoning stress or pressures.

But listen, probable cause hasn't changed for quite some time. Reasonable suspicion and probable cause.

No. 2, the public is seeing more now than they've ever seen in the past. And that's creating tension and stress. You can't really draw inference for all those things.

And lastly, this year, up to this quarter, there were 83 police officers killed in the United States. One is way too many. One percent down from last year. Even if the current trend continues, we still won't match last year's numbers. So I think we have to put things in perspective.

Law enforcement is a very dangerous job. We should never have to lose our lives doing it, but we do. We're dealing with dangerous people.

CAMEROTA: Matthew Horace, thanks so much for walking us through all of it this morning. Great to see you.

HORACE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to John.

BERMAN: All right, Alisyn. The Donald Trump/Jeb Bush feud is intensifying. In a new CNN interview, Trump is firing back against the attacks from Jeb Bush. The attack that say Trump is not a true conservative.

CNN's Athena Jones following it all for us, live from Washington. Good morning, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

After months of taking hits from Trump, Bush is trying to show a little more fire. And he's using social media, which is one of Trump's favorite means of communication, to strike back. Meanwhile, those hits from Trump keep coming.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP (via phone): Jeb is paying for these ads by the lobbyists, by the special interests and by his donors.

JONES (voice-over): In a new interview with CNN, Donald Trump not holding back on anything or anyone, including Jeb Bush.

TRUMP: He's getting all of his money from people that are lobbyists and, you know, a tough group of people. I know all of them. And they wanted to do something, and they should do something, because he's got to fight back. And he's way down in the polls. He's got to.

JONES: Hitting him on his fundraising strength and his poor poll position in the same breath. The former Florida governor has long been a top Trump target. Bush Tuesday firing back in front of the cameras.

BUSH: This is not a guy who's a conservative. Using his own words is not a mischaracterization. It came out of his own mouth.

JONES: And online.

TRUMP (on camera): I have lived in New York City and Manhattan all my life. So, you know, my views are a little bit different than if I lived in Iowa.

JONES: Taking a jab at what he calls the one-time Democrat's liberal views.

TRUMP: I'm very pro-choice.

Hillary Clinton, I think, is a terrific woman.

You'd be shocked if I said that, in many cases, I probably identify more as a Democrat.

JONES: Trump, whose love of social media has become legendary for a political candidate, took to Twitter to call Bush weak and posted another Instagram video, pointing to nice things Bush has said about Hillary Clinton.

BUSH: We recognize the commitment of someone who has devoted her life to public service.

JONES: And after weeks of tough talk on illegal immigration...

TRUMP: They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime.

JONES: ... Trump spent more than an hour at Trump Tower, talking about the issue, and the Hispanic electorate, with the head of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

JAVIER PALOMAREZ, CEO, U.S. HISPANIC CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: He understands that the Hispanic vote will be critically important, not only for him, but anybody seeking the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: Now that meeting with the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce president was at Trump's request. And both sides said it went well. The chamber said in a statement they wanted Trump to clarify his policies on immigration and other issues. And the chamber said that Trump has agreed to appear in a public Q&A session with the Chamber's president later this fall. So we'll certainly be looking out for that -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Yes. It will be fascinating. We'll be sure to watch that. All right, Athena. Thank you so much for that.

Some international news breaking overnight. Gunmen abducting a group of at least 12 Turkish construction workers from a site in Eastern Baghdad. The identities of the gunmen and the fate of the men unclear right now. Last month, ISIS issued a statement slamming Turkey's president for allowing the U.S. access to its bases. Turkey's taking a leading role in the fight against Islamist fighters on its southern border.

[06:15:14] CAMEROTA: Secretary of State John Kerry, this morning delivering a major speech on the Iran deal in Philadelphia, defending the agreement and taking on critics. The chances of the bill's survival in Congress getting better. President Obama now one vote away from securing enough support after senators Chris Coons and Bob Casey announced their support for the bill. So we will speak with Senator Coons about what he likes in this deal, coming up in our 8 a.m. hour.

BERMAN: Court clerk Kim Davis ordered to appear in federal court Thursday to explain why she is still refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, in defiance of the Supreme Court.

Davis calls it a heaven or hell decision and says she is acting on God's authority. She faces fines or possibly jail time.

CAMEROTA: There were three clerks in Kentucky who were refusing marriage licenses. We spoke to one yesterday, and they say that they're willing to go the distance. They're willing to do whatever it takes. If it means jail time.

BERMAN: The distance may be ending tomorrow when she gets sentenced to prison time or heavy fines. PEREIRA: It's just interesting. Because when I think about it,

and faith, you know, my faith says judge not lest you be judged. You know? And so it's interesting to hear somebody take such a stand against somebody else.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. So we'll follow that and give you all the updates.

Meanwhile, Jeb Bush stepping up his attacks against Donald Trump. What are these two saying about each other? We'll tell you.

BERMAN: What aren't they saying?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:20:44] TRUMP (voice-over): At one point, I was a Democrat, and for a period of time. And over the years, as Ronald Reagan changed, I also changed. I became much more conservative. I also became a Republican.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That is Donald Trump defending his past as a Democrat to CNN's Don Lemon last night. Trump's political past is under fire now in a series of attacks launched by Jeb Bush, the joyful tortoise. Joyful no more. Will this change in strategy, taking on Trump directly, will it help Bush, who has had some problems in the polls?

We're joined this morning by CNN political commentator and New York One News political anchor Errol Louis; and CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman. She is also the presidential campaign correspondent for "The New York Times."

Errol, on the Donald Trump v. Jeb Bush, more specifically, Jeb going after Donald Trump, calling him a liberal in a pretty scathing video he posted, using Trump's own words. The question is, is it smart to go after Donald Trump if you're Jeb Bush? And the follow-up question is, is it smart to go after Donald Trump, calling him a liberal?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it is extremely unwise to go after Donald Trump. This turns into a form of entertainment. And Donald Trump is an entertainer; and Jeb Bush is not. So Jeb Bush gets out of his own space, which is a competent person from the political establishment who's done a lot of stuff in government; and he steps onto turf where he's clearly not comfortable and really, in some ways, probably responding to his donors, his backers, the people who say, "Go out there and, you know, fight back. Fight back." And then he gets out there, and it's kind of an uneven match in a lot of ways.

CAMEROTA: So why not become a feisty tortoise, Maggie? I mean, isn't that...

BERMAN: A snapping turtle.

CAMEROTA: I like that, John Berman.

BERMAN: Yes, it's been out there for a week, yes.

CAMEROTA: A snapping turtle. Isn't that better?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: We could do this all day.

Because I think for a couple reasons. I think to Errol's basic point, is that Trump is playing a very different game than Jeb is. I mean, Trump seems to be moving in for the kill in a way that Jeb, I think, is not prepared to push back on. So yes, you can show a web video.

But No. 1, there's no points behind it. It is done, as Errol says, for your backers. It is done for your donors to calm them down. It's done for the press to get you to write he's hitting back.

But at the end of the day, I think that some of this is being done as a plea to his super PAC which is backing him, which has said pretty clearly -- Mike Murphy who runs that super PAC, has said, "We're not going to be the people, you know, leading the attack against Donald Trump."

CAMEROTA: Why not? Isn't that what super PAC is for?

HABERMAN: Very different than what we saw, for instance, in 2012 when Mitt Romney's super PAC just obliterated Newt Gingrich. That was what they did.

BERMAN: But in a 16-candidate field, even if there is money or points behind these attacks, it isn't clear that it helps Jeb Bush. If you go after Donald Trump, then none of those votes will go to Jeb. They could go to Ted Cruz; they could go to someone else.

LOUIS: That's right. And if you're the super PAC, you're thinking, "Well, you know, we want to help Jeb Bush," but he's going to have to help himself first." Because who knows where that $100 million is going to end up? There's a scenario in which it ends up going to a third candidate yet to be named. And the super PAC can, in fact, do that.

CAMEROTA: I don't know if we have the sound of the Jeb Bush attack ad where he plays Trump talking about being a Democrat. But we do. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Hillary Clinton, I think, is a terrific woman. I mean, I'm a little biased, because I've known her years.

Yes, I know her very well. She's very talented.

I live in New York. She lives in New York. And I've known her and her husband for years, and I really like them both a lot.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you identify more as a Democrat or a Republican?

TRUMP: You'd be shocked if I said that, in many cases, I probably identify more as a Democrat.

BLITZER: Then why are you a Republican?

TRUMP: I have no idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: "Why are you a Republican?"

"I have no idea."

I mean, but now he's just evolved? Is that OK? Does that -- does that end up tarnishing any of his image, Maggie?

HABERMAN: Your evolution tends to depend on which way you're evolving toward in politics. So on the left, for instance, in Democratic politics, evolving on gay marriage has been considered a positive thing. On the right, if you evolve to become more of a Republican, that is not a bad thing.

But, I do think that the video of Donald Trump's positions -- and it's not like these were taken a very long time ago. These are pretty recent. I do think, watching that clip, this is not the most devastating line of attacks that you could use against Donald Trump. There are many, many other quotes that you could use.

And the Hillary Clinton thing really stood out, because as soon as I saw it -- and a couple Republican operatives e-mailed me about this when they saw it -- Jeb Bush himself, you know, presented her or was present for some medal ceremony that she was part of two years ago. It was very predictable that Trump was going to do exactly what he did do, which is go and find video of that and release it.

So all of these attacks that Trump has done against Jeb -- and I think this is a big problem for Jeb -- have been utterly predictable. That one, the one where he used quotes from his mom, you know, saying he shouldn't run. Jeb's people have been really caught off guard by it. There are completely different rules that Donald Trump is playing by.

[06:25:14] BERMAN: Well, let's talk about changing those rules a little bit. Because he had an unpredictable meeting yesterday with the president of the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. And of course, you know, Donald Trump has had some issues with Latino voters, not happy at all with his stance on immigration, or his loud stance on immigration. Ye, he has this meeting, and the guy comes out and says it was essentially a positive meeting.

LOUIS: Well, I don't imagine they were throwing things at each other. And for -- and for Trump, it actually sort of does exactly what he needed it to do. I don't think Trump is under any illusion he's turning into a politician now. I don't think he's under any illusion; the ship has sailed. He is not going to get Latino votes. I mean, there are negatives like you rarely see in politics.

BERMAN: He says Hispanics loved him. They love working for him. Everyone loves the Donald.

LOUIS: He's a real-estate guy. You know, if you've ever dealt with a real-estate guy or a car salesman, they'll say whatever they say. Right? And then you have to sort of line up the facts to sort of see what reality is.

Now, in his case, I think, really, what he was going after is not the Latino vote but to be able to say to people who don't want to be associated with a guy who's made bigoted statements, he wants to be able to say, "Well, look, I can talk with people. I don't hate them. It's not personal. I'm not a bigot."

CAMEROTA: That's a good strategy.

HABERMAN: My understanding is actually this meeting was not set up by his campaign. I think it was set up by people within his company. And I think that that, to Errol's point, is about the business.

But I do think that Trump -- we've seen this pattern repeatedly with Trump where he asks somebody for a meeting, and then he leaks out the meeting, and then he sets out the terms of "This is what I say I said." And it becomes very hard to counteract that.

CAMEROTA: OK. Speaking of changing rules, let's talk about what CNN is doing. CNN has decided to change the original rules they had about the debate on September 16. New criteria. And this one seems that Carly Fiorina will pass muster, because she's risen in the polls since the first debate. So she will be in the debate now. That is the right answer, isn't it, Errol?

LOUIS: I would tend to think so. Look, we have -- my local station, we have the same issue. Not enough people can fit into the studio. Who do you have in? Who do you have out? What criteria do you use? I think news organizations should have enough confidence to say right from the beginning, "We're going to pick who we're going to pick. This is not going to be the only debate, but this is going to be the debate we present for the reasons that we set out." And I think, after a long process, CNN found its way to the right decision.

BERMAN: If you look at the field right now, Carly Fiorina should be in this debate. She is a big part of this conversation right now, and now she will be.

HABERMAN: I think the -- I think the bigger question -- not bigger question, but an equally related question is that if you're Chris Christie and Rand Paul, you're not getting knocked out of the debate. And I think that is a very important...

BERMAN: It only makes it all that much more exciting, of course. It does air right here on CNN.

CAMEROTA: Correct. Maggie, Errol, thanks so much. Great to talk to you guys.

So tomorrow on NEW DAY, we will speak with Carly Fiorina to discuss her recent surge and the issues impacting the race.

BERMAN: Not sure I mentioned this. There is a debate.

CAMEROTA: Is there? When is it?

BERMAN: Coming up here on CNN two weeks from tonight, the next Republican presidential debate. It will be hosted at the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California. Begins at 6 p.m. Eastern, with the big show at 9. That is only here on CNN -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Can you help me move on the 16th, John? You're not busy that day, are you?

All right. We're also watching Wall Street. Are we expecting another rocky day on the Wall Street area? China's economic slowdown clearly rattling nerves and sinking markets. We are keeping a keen eye on your investments for you when NEW DAY continues.

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