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New Day

President Obama and Vladimir Putin Meet; Taliban Take Northern City in Afghanistan; U.S. Strategy in Middle East Examined; Donald Trump Discusses Running Against Hillary Clinton; Trump Unveils Plan to Slash Taxes. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 29, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- after something of a showdown here at the U.N. Also it seems to have worked. I mean, granted there are still garnet gargantuan differences there, but both sides are calling it constructive, and that is about the most anyone had hoped for. Now the U.S. and Russian militaries will communicate in fighting ISIS and there will at least be a dialogue about the potential political transition in Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: With that stiff, silent handshake, proceeded by an awkward, cold toast, and two scathing speeches.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cannot stand by when the sovereignty and territorial integrity of a nation is flagrantly violated.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (via translator): We think it is an enormous mistake to refuse to cooperate with the Syrian government.

KOSINSKI: President Obama and Putin did manage to tolerate each other enough to hash out their significant differences for an hour and a half behind closed doors starting with Obama confronting Putin over his refusal to back down in Ukraine. But on Syria where Putin continues to back and even tried to rally international support for longtime ally President Bashar al Assad currently at war with his own people, and President Obama believes he must go, calling him a tyrant.

OBAMA: There cannot be after so much bloodshed, so much carnage, a return to the prewar status quo.

KOSINSKI: They do agree fighting ISIS is the priority, as difficult as they may be to coordinate.

NICOLAS KRISTOF, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK TIMES": Syrian government air strikes on a hospital, killing three healthcare workers. Thereby Assad is empowering ISIS. So the idea you are going to fight ISIS by supporting the Assad regime is crazy.

KOSINSKI: So in this rare meeting they decided the U.S. and Russian militaries will communicate to avoid fighting each other in battling ISIS. And Russia has agreed to explore the possibility of a political resolution in Syria. Putin, calling this face-to-face time with President Obama meaningful and surprisingly frank.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: Everybody wants to know what went on in that room. How were they together? How was that relationship? Has it changed at all? But the White House still will only say that it is business like. They do share a goal of fighting ISIS, although there is plenty of skepticism in the White House over whether Putin's actions will ultimately live up to those words. Where we go from here of course remains to be seen because there always has to be this big divergence in how each side views the communication. Putin says that the U.S. asked for this meeting. But the White House has repeatedly called Putin desperate to talk to President Obama and says that he has tried for this meeting a number of times. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: No consensus on even how the meeting came about. All right, Michelle, we'll discuss this and dig a little deeper in a moment.

But first, breaking overnight, the United States attacking Taliban targets from the air in northern Afghanistan, that offensive happening just a day after Taliban forces seized control of the city of the Kunduz in a surprised predawn attack. Now Afghan security forces are trying to recapture that city. Let's begin our comprehensive coverage with CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, good morning once again.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela. Some urgency for the U.S. to get the situation back under control in Kunduz. A short time ago a statement issued from the coalition in Afghanistan saying the air strikes have worked, that they feel they have dealt with the Taliban contingent there.

But look, Afghan forces still battling to retake the city after the Taliban took it in the last several hours in northern Afghanistan, the largest takeover by the Taliban since 2001. They moved. They took a police compound. They took the jail. They took the hospital, several neighborhoods releasing prisoners in a jail. A very messy situation for Afghan security forces to move into.

This is where the Taliban continue to demonstrate a battlefield advantage. They move in when they see vulnerability among local security forces and they are able to score some takeover of some areas. Now the Afghans pushing them back.

But the big issue for the United States now besides this local security situation, what does it mean overall? There are 9,800 U.S. troops in Afghanistan. They are scheduled to come home most of them by the end of next year. But still a big question, with the security situation so volatile, will some of those U.S. troops have to stay? John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Can they leave with cities falling? All right, Barbara, thank you so much.

I want to bring in Christiane Amanpour, CNN's chief international correspondent, and Jim Sciutto, CNN's chief national security correspondent. Guys, just talking about Afghanistan right there, but Syria, which is a problem that's been around for four years now, or

five years, getting more complicated this morning with the presence of the Russian troops there. Vladimir Putin and President Obama Obama met for 90 minutes yesterday, an awfully long time. And this morning we're getting a sense from the secretary of state about what they might have discussed, Christiane.

[08:05:11] CHRISTIAN AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Precisely. He's been talking to reporters already and fleshing out a little bit of what the plan might be. So from what I can gather, the plan is they all agree, as everybody does, that ISIS is bad. ISIS has to be defeated. And that is the first phase.

But then what is the next plan? The next plan appears to be, well, then it is absolutely up to one man, Basher Assad, to step down. That to me is a little bit touch and go. How do you convince Bashar Assad to stand down? You have to get Russia and Iran to make him stand down. How are you going to do that? That seems to be the extent of where they are right now.

And then the other thing which is incredibly worrying, and you didn't have the time to ask Barbara, but she's been taking to the head of NATO forces has told her in detail what they are seeing, Russia move in very sophisticated missiles which General Breedlove rightly says we don't know why they need that. Does ISIS have planes? Who are they going to be shooting down? Are they going to be really shooting down Assad and his barrel bombs, which have been killing Syrian people?

And let's not forget, despite what President Putin says, it is for the last four years of President Assad's use of barrel bombs, heavy artillery, starving his cities, holding them at seas, that is being what has made all these refugees come out that's effecting Europe and the United States right now.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so, Jim, the devil is in the details. What do we think the White House is going to agree to with --

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A major detail is Bashar al-Assad. You hear from the U.N. General Assembly podium Putin and Obama diametrically opposed views of his role in this. Putin says he's a savior. He's fighting valiantly, in his words, fighting ISIS, and Obama says he's a source of the problem. So they can agree on a political settlement, but they haven't agreed on the fundamental player in that settlement.

I was just thinking. You remember when following the Iran deal, you would hear from officials that in this brave new world in the Mideast that perhaps Iran and Russia and others can be our partners, and here you have them at loggerheads on the ground here. The ink is not even dry on the Iran deal and your partners on that deal are, frankly, on the other side of this conflict. Yes, they have a common foe in ISIS. But they have diametrically opposed views of Bashar al-Assad and his government.

BERMAN: And Christiane, the discussion in September of 2015, isn't whether or not the Russia troops, the 500 troops, the warplanes, the rockets should be there, because they are there. It's already moved beyond that, and the discussion is what to do with them?

AMANPOUR: Precisely. And they were there, not coincidentally, to preview Putin's trip here. He's built up this military base like that, catching everybody by surprise, catching everybody unawares, not telling anybody what this is about. All we hear specifically from, for instance, the U.N. ambassador, Samantha Power and others, you hear they talk about de-conflicting, whatever that means, to make sure Russia doesn't attack NATO.

But what about Russia has only gone in there to prop up Assad. And the real worry is that Russia is not going to be taking out ISIS, not with their missiles, anyway. They don't have boots on the ground. How are they going to take out ISIS? They are going to attack, attack, attack the anti-Assad forces who are trying to push them back. And I don't mean ISIS. I mean those who actually are patriotic who do want to see a different kind of Syria.

SCIUTTO: To be clear, I don't think U.S. commanders think that Russia is there to shoot down coalition warplanes. That would be, as we know, incendiary. That would be an act of war. But there is something about a power play here on the part of Vladimir Putin. Putting troops on the ground where the U.S. has not been willing to do and putting military capabilities on the ground is sending a message, right. And this is part of it, because Russia wants to not only for an international audience but also for a domestic audience say that we are a world power again. Look what we're doing there as, and the perception is, as the U.S. retreats.

CAMEROTA: We've talked to our military men this morning. We've talked to pundits who say that the U.S. hasn't done enough in Syria and that there was a vacuum left. And so this is what Russia is do doing. And in fact there is one backwards logic that says by being un-strategic President Obama is being strategic and letting Russia deal with this now.

CAMEROTA: We've talked about action and we've talked about inaction. Inaction has its own inexorable logic, and that logic is that Assad was able to continue his way. We have 7 million plus Syrian refugees moving around inside trying to escape his barrel bombs and his heavy artillery. We have 4.5 million in the surrounding countries. We have tens of thousands now trying to get into Europe. That is Basher Assad. That is not doing anything about Syria for four and a half years, and this is where we are right now.

But it is true that the realpolitik, so to speak, not I just interviewed the British foreign secretary, now they are all saying OK, we're going to have to deal with Assad for now, fight ISIS, and then let's see what happens. But the United States didn't even fight, didn't even create or equip and train any of the moderate forces. And then they are saying they are only five on the battlefield. Well, they didn't do it. [08:10:10] BERMAN: We see the Taliban taking over the northern

city in Afghanistan of Kunduz right now, and that's with 9,800 U.S. troops in the country. What happens two years from now if President Obama's plan goes through and there are no U.S. troops in the country? Will this change the discussion?

SCIUTTO: It's an enormously worrisome sign. The fact is actually those 9,800 troops, there have been talk that they would be purely in their bases and doing only force protection. They actually have been doing offensive operations against Taliban targets. It's been a little bit under the radar. So the question is, do they do more of that? But, yes, it's a very fair question, are they gone by the end of this year or does this change the calculus?

Regardless, though, you leave them there another year, another two years, it raises this question again. You spent a decade training and equipping Afghan security forces to defend their own country just as you did in Iraq. It didn't work in Iraq.

BERMAN: And they had superiority in numbers just as in Iraq.

SCIUTTO: And the U.S. air cover.

CAMEROTA: So how did the Taliban come back swinging?

AMANPOUR: Well, you can go back to the political situation. You can go back to obviously $60 billion, according to reports, the U.S. and its allies have spent to try to raise the Afghan national army. Something went wrong there. We don't know exactly what. Did they turn around? Or, more importantly, is local politics still the most important thing there? The Taliban had either intimidated or had sympathizers in Kunduz and that seems to be what tipped the situation.

CAMEROTA: Christiane, Jim, great to have your insights, thanks so much for being with us in studio here. Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, some headlines for you now. We could find out today if the trial for the first officer charged in the Freddie Gray case will be delayed. A hearing on the matter is expected this afternoon. Officer William Porter's trial is scheduled to begin in two weeks, but attorneys for the six officers charged say additional material turned over by prosecutors has a significant impact on defense strategy. Those six officers are being tried separately.

BERMAN: All right, the battle to be the next speaker of the House is on. House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, he says he is running. Congress Danny Webster from Florida, we just spoke to him earlier, he says he is running. Who will win? CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju joins us live from Washington to explain how this will play out.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It looks like it's Kevin McCarthy's to lose. He is the heavy favorite going into the leadership elections which are going to be sometime this month. They have not been scheduled yet, probably sometime next week. And Kevin McCarthy's rise to this position, if he does become speaker, would be the quickest rise of anything in about since the 19th century. He's only been in Congress for about nine years. Typically on average we're looking about 23 years or so that someone has become speaker from the time they were sworn in to take their House seat.

And he's done this by methodically developing relationships with members over the years. He played a huge role in the recruiting effort for that big Republican majority in 2010, and a lot of those members are still serving and they remember those days. And he spent a lot of time just remembering small things about them, their family lives and what's happening with them back home personally, and people remember that.

And I should add that these kinds of contests are popularity contests of sorts. And Kevin McCarthy clearly is banking on that.

Now today is a very critical day for the future of the House Republican conference. There are two important meetings, air-clearing sessions where the Republicans will take stock where they should go for their future. Not just for the next speaker's job but also for the positions down ticket, and that will go a long way to determining what Republicans will -- the tactics and strategies they will pursue heading into the 2016. Back to you guys.

BERMAN: There are some real fights from the majority leader post and whip. All right, Manu, thanks so much.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much.

Well, now to the latest in the 2016 presidential race. Republican frontrunner Donald Trump not holding back against Democrat frontrunner Hillary Clinton in his extended one-on-one with CNN's Erin Burnett. Trump says if Clinton becomes his primary opponent she is totally beatable. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: So Bill Clinton, obviously, you could be running against his wife if you are the nominee. He was asked this week on CNN. He said you are a master brander. He said you have a lot of pizzazz and zip. And when asked if you could be the nominee, he said I think so. Obviously he attended your wedding to your wife. You have known him a long time. What do you say to him? Would you go so far to say he's a friend?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'll tell -- no, I haven't spoke to him a long time. And actually he wanted to know what I was going to do. You know, it was a long time ago he called. That was the last time I spoke to him. But I haven't spoken to him for a long time.

I always respected him. I've actually liked him over the years. But when we look at what's going on in the world, when we look at the job that Hillary did as secretary of state, she goes down as perhaps the worst secretary of state in history.

[08:15:00] And when I run against her evenly in the polls, I'm doing very well against Hillary and beating her. Probably though, I will tell you, you're talking about the Iran agreement, I think that Kerry is maybe going to take her place as the worst because of this agreement. I think it is going to be the worst agreement in history.

But as far as Hillary is concerned, number one, if she gets to the starting gate, which is questionable because of the e-mail situation, it really is to me a big question. But I don't think she'll be very difficult to beat.

BURNETT: So in the polls you're the frontrunner, right, you're the frontrunner of the GOP.

TRUMP: Yes.

BURNETT: When they put you head-to-head with Hillary, though, in our latest poll, you still lost by a little bit. Some of the GOP candidates didn't. What would you do to turn that around?

TRUMP: But in other polls, other than the CNN poll, I beat her. I don't think -- I think I just have to do my thing. See, I'm not interested right now in that aspect. Right now I'm running --

BURNETT: So you're going to keep your strategy --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: -- a certain number of people and you have to get there first.

I think Hillary in certain way is going to be easier than anybody else, but in most of the polls, I beat Hillary and I just -- look, I have a certain number of people that I'm running against right now. One by one, they dropped out.

BURNETT: Who is next to drop out?

TRUMP: Well, you've so many of them, they're doing so poorly, that I didn't expect them to. Rand Paul was doing horribly. You know, he was supposed to be a leader and he's down to 2 percent.

You have so many -- a guy like Marco Rubio is a lightweight. I can't imagine that he goes anywhere, who, by the way, has the worst voting record in the United States Senate. He's got --

BURNETT: Not voting.

TRUMP: -- the worst attendance record. You can't do that. You've got to vote. You know, people elect you to a position, you've got to vote.

Bush, sadly, I mean -- I think he's a nice guy, but he's doing very poorly.

I mean, all of these people -- the interesting thing is everybody that's attacked me, Bobby Jindal, Perry -- every single person that's got -- Senator Lindsey Graham -- I mean, in South Carolina I'm at 34, he's at 3, and he's the sitting senator from South Carolina.

But all of these guys are out, even Walker, and I think he's a nice person, but he attacked me, I attacked him, he left the race.

Look, I'm doing this simply, I want to make America great again. I'm really good at things, I do get along with politicians, I -- believe it or not, I have a great temperament for this kind of stuff. They do respect me.

In this building, I have some of the largest Chinese banks in the world and they're very happy to pay me rent every month and yet I'm very critical of China, which is -- people say, how can that be? He's so critical and yet he's got --

BURNETT: So when people say the temperament question, this is a guy who call someone a loser, he'll say something and they say that that's childish --

TRUMP: But this is a campaign.

BURNETT: But they say that that's childish, they say that's no the temperament of a president.

TRUMP: Probably it's a little childish. But you know what? This is a campaign and usually -- and I think you know this better than anybody -- I'm responding to them. I'm a counterpuncher.

I think in every single instance I've hit -- for instance, Walker was very nice to me, all of a sudden, he hit me and I hit him back.

All of these guys. Rubio was very nice to me. Couldn't have been nicer. All of a sudden, a week ago, he started hitting me. I hit him back.

BURNETT: So you're saying you're not going to talk about a Vladimir Putin, calling him a loser or something like that, as a president?

TRUMP: No. I actually say the opposite.

I guarantee -- I think I would get along very well with him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Sounds like "Caddyshack." I didn't want to do it, I felt like I owed it to them.

CAMEROTA: He says he doesn't start it. That is his point.

PEREIRA: I'm just curious, Lindsey Graham and Bobby Jindal will have to say. I guess you don't have to know their names, right? They're probably saying, as long as you know who I am.

CAMEROTA: Pronunciation open to interpretation. But he leaves out Carly Fiorina. He says everybody who attacks him falls off in the poll or quits, and not Carly Fiorina. She's actually gone you have.

We will discuss it and more in the political round up, including the tax plan that Donald Trump laid out that's getting so much attention.

PEREIRA: Here is quite story for you, a fugitive on the run nearly 25 years, featured on CNN's "THE HUNT WITH JOHN WALSH", captured in Mexico. Paul Jackson is accused of kidnapping and raping women, locking them in a house of torture in Oregon.

CNN's Boris Sanchez joins us with more.

What a terrible character.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A terrible character. This is at least the fifth fugitive featured on "THE HUNT" that's been captured since. Great story.

Paul Jackson essentially disappeared in 1991. He fled while he was out on bond. He and his brother were arrested. But they both got away before going to trial.

His brother Vance turned himself in in 2005. He's serving 108 years in prison but he still wouldn't give any indication as to where his brother might be. Thanks to a tip from a viewer watching the episode of the hunt, he provided a significant tip to the U.S. marshal's office who tracked Jackson down to Guadalajara, Mexico. He was arrested while walking to work in a electronics story.

John Walsh spoke to CNN last night and made a very interesting point as well during this initial investigation. When they went into the brother's home, they discovered photos of women who they believed had been brutalized by these men. Many of the women were never tracked down. That's led to speculation that these men were capable of doing more than the horrible things they were already accused of.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:20:02] JOHN WALSH, THE HUNT (via telephone): Not only would grab these girls and brutalize them, but they took pictures to humiliate them and threaten them. They found out that there were multiple victims and no one's really going to know how many of these girls that they grabbed, and the real question is how many of them didn't make it out of there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Walsh speculating that if there is evidence, Paul Jackson could be charged with murder. He's expected to be extradited back to the United States. And Walsh says a lot of the women accused of being attacked by him are testifying in court.

BERMAN: What difference the show makes.

PEREIRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: As with public service, it's so great to see the good work.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Yes, absolutely.

BERMAN: All right. Donald Trump, unveiling his tax plan. Not everyone is on board, including the Ben Carson campaign. We're going to speak to one of Carson's chief advisors, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you look at what's going to happen to the economy, the economy is going to just be absolutely like a rocket. It's going to go up. This is my prediction. This is what I'm good at. This is really my wheel house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Republican frontrunner Donald Trump laying out his tax plan to CNN's Erin Burnett.

But Trump's biggest rival Ben Carson disagrees with Trump's vision. So, let's talk about it.

Joining us this morning to explain both their candidates position, Ben Carson's business manager and close friend, Armstrong Williams. And CNN political commentator and former Reagan political director, Jeffrey Lord, who will speak for Donald Trump's tax vision.

[08:25:00] Gentlemen, great to see both of you here.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: What I want both of you to do is comment on your rival's tax plan.

So, let's start with you Armstrong and let's talk about Donald Trump's tax plan. Let me tell you what we know of it.

He says that no business will be taxed more than 15 percent. He says that there will be no federal income tax for individuals earning less than $25,000 or couples earning less than $50,000. The highest individual tax bracket will be 25 percent. It will no longer be close to 40 percent. And, of course, he will eliminate or reduce reduction for high income taxpayers.

Armstrong, what's wrong with Donald Trump's vision?

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, BEN CARSON'S BUSINESS MANAGER: Well, you must give him respect, and, good morning, Alisyn, for at least moving the ball forward.

You know, the problem when you talk about this tax issue, it is not as if it has not been discussed before. And why is it that the middle class and the poor always carry the burden of this going for? And why is it that it seems as though people who are wealthy become wealthier?

Unless if Donald Trump and Dr. Carson is very serious about moving forward on getting this under control, one of the first things you've got to do, you've got to reduce that 6,000 page document to a hundred pages.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But also, there are four pillars --

CAMEROTA: But isn't Donald Trump simplifying this?

WILLIAMS: No. But there are four pillars that must be in the equation if you want to make a dent in these reductions. You've got to put mortgage interest, which upsets the real estate industry, and big business whose get these great write-offs from real estate mortgage write-offs. You have to put the employee mandate on the terrible. You've got to put charities on the table. And 401(k)s on the table.

CAMEROTA: OK. And Dr. Carson is doing all of that you are saying?

WILLIAMS: I'm saying -- I am only saying, unless both camps -- I'm Dr. Carson's business manager. I'm his friend. I'm not a part of the campaign.

CAMEROTA: Uh-huh.

WILLIAMS: But unless Dr. Carson they are talking about these sacred cows and finding a way to talk about it, it's not going anywhere.

CAMEROTA: Sure, that is what you are advising him to do, but Dr. Carson hasn't agreed to do that yet.

WILLIAMS: That's on the table. But if you are serious about it. But, look, in order for capitalism to continue to thrive, you have to bring poor people out of the poor into the wealth class because if not, capitalism cannot sustain --

CAMEROTA: Got it.

Jeffrey, let's talk about Dr. Carson's plan. He wants a 10 percent flat tax. Let me let you listen to how he justifies his vision. Here is Dr. Carson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The one that I've advocated is basted on tithing, because I think God is a pretty fair guy. And he said, you know, if you give me a tithe, it doesn't matter how much you make. If you have had a bumper crop, you don't owe me the triple dies. And you had no drops at you'll don't owe me the no ties.

So, there must be something fair about that and that's why I've advocated a proportional tax system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. There you go. Jeffrey, what do you think of a 10 percent flat tax?

LORD: As I understand it, I think Donald Trump believes that in essence isn't fair. If you are a billionaire you pay a billion if you're worth ten, or if you made ten, and you're earning ten dollars and you pay one that there is an inherent unfairness to that.

I would also add -- and, you know, this goes back to your earlier guests, Mort Kondracke and Fred Barnes, I used to work for Jack Kemp. And I mean, I can hear his voice in my head as we speak talking about the economic growth that came out of Reaganomics, which he was very much responsible for.

That is what Donald Trump is going for. He boosted -- you know, it cut black unemployment. It boosted economic growth for Latinos, for women across the board. It cut across all sectors of the economy and was hugely successful.

So I think that is where we are headed here with this plan and there is nothing wrong with that. That is good thing and it would take off like a rocket. It did before.

CAMEROTA: Armstrong, isn't it interesting the different political debate happening this time around with what Donald Trump has laid out versus Mitt Romney. When Mitt Romney talked about how half the country doesn't pay any income taxes, he was seen as pandering to the base of Republicans for whom that felt outrageous. You know, it was the entitlement nation.

Now, somehow, Donald Trump has turned into a selling point for his tax plan.

WILLIAMS: You know, Alisyn, that is a very good observation. You know one of the things I could say that Dr. Carson would absolutely embrace is that that is nonstarter, unless you reduce spending. We have a $19 trillion deficit.

I mean, you've got some people here who have credit card debt of $400,000, or $500,000 and yet they are making $40,000, $50,000 a year, similar to what our government is doing. It is a nonstarter because you have a behemoth federal government that needs to be fed. And money has to come from somewhere.

And, yes, you need to talk about cutting entitlement programs and those issues that Republicans often discuss. But you also must talk about some of those sacred cows that Republicans try to protect.