Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Georgia Executes Woman Despite Appeals; Lawmakers Grill Planned Parenthood President; Afghan Forces Struggle to Retake City from Taliban; Drenching Rain Slams East Coast. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 30, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first woman executed in Georgia in 70 years.

[05:58:15] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Letters of clemency on behalf of Pope Francis.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The notion of clemency, why do we have it if someone like this doesn't qualify?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't need federal dollars in order to do this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of Planned Parenthood on Capitol Hill.

REP. JOHN DUNCAN (R), TENNESSEE: Do you defend the sale of baby body parts?

CECILE RICHARDS, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: No.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: For years you've been saying Assad should go.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: As long as Assad is there, you simply can't make peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Putin has really kind of called checkmate on the United States.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Really attacked me quite viciously, and I fought back.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You shouldn't be able to insult your way to the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, September 30, 6 a.m. in the east. The state of

Georgia has killed the only woman on Death Row overnight. After her final appeals failed, Kelly Gissendaner was put to death by legal injection early this morning. Her crime, murder. Eighteen years ago, she convinced her lover to kill her husband.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Gissendaner becomes the first woman executed in that state in 70 years. Even a plea from Pope Francis was not enough to spare her life. She spent her final moments singing "Amazing Grace."

CNN's Martin Savidge is live at the CNN Center in Atlanta with all of the breaking details.

Good morning, Martin.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

This was actually Kelly Gissendaner's three execution date. Two other previous ones had been postponed. And if her supporters had hoped for one more answered prayer, it was not to be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Breaking overnight, 47-year-old Kelly Gissendaner, the only woman on Georgia's Death Row and the state's first female prisoner to be executed in 70 years, put to death by lethal injection. Gissendaner, who was convicted of murder for convincing her lover to kill her husband Douglas almost 20 years ago, was pronounced dead at 12:21 a.m.

MARCUS EASLEY, RETIRED OFFICER, FRIEND OF GISSENDANER: Kelly is a woman who made a drastic mistake and a tragic decision. I'm not going to call it a mistake. She's paid her dues for it.

SAVIDGE: In the five-hour delay leading up to her execution, her three grown children pleading before Georgia's parole board to commute their mother's sentence to life in prison.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're just beside themselves over the decision that they made.

SAVIDGE: The Georgia U.S. Supreme Court, the U.S. Supreme Court, and federal appeals court denying all of her appeals. The effort to spare her life reaching as far as the Vatican. A letter on behalf of Pope Francis, urging the parole board to exercise mercy.

Gissendaner's lawyers arguing she had undergone a spiritual transformation in prison. Media witnesses say she sobbed as she apologized to the victim's family and asked her lawyer to tell her kids she went out singing "Amazing Grace." And this.

EASLEY: I asked her if she wanted to give me any messages to give to her kids, because I was there in the place of her children. I said, "I need a statement to give to each one of them, Kelly."

And she said, "It's easy, Mark. I love you. I love you. I love you. I am so proud of you."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Gissendaner's co-conspirator, her former boyfriend, he had a separate trial. He was found guilty, but he was sentenced to life with the possibility of parole. In fact, he could be paroled in as few as seven years. Quite a difference -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Martin, that's part of why this case has aroused so much interest.

So let's bring in a friend of Cathy [SIC] -- Kelly Gissendaner. Reverend Cathy Zappa; and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson. He is also a criminal defense attorney. Thanks so much for being with us.

Reverend Zappa, I want to start with you. What was it about Kelly that has inspired so many people to try to save her life?

REV. CATHY ZAPPA, FRIEND OF KELLY GISSENDANER: It's really a lot of things. And I think it's hard to put your finger on any one thing. I think one is just her authenticity and the way that she has taken her experiences, her experiences both of causing pain and experiencing pain, and tried to use those to help so many other people.

CAMEROTA: And what -- what did she think about this disparity in the sentences? She conspired with her lover to kill her husband. It was her lover who delivered the fatal stab wounds. He did not get the death penalty. He got life in prison.

ZAPPA: Right.

CAMEROTA: As we just heard from our reporter, he is eligible for parole seven years from now. Why did she get the death penalty?

ZAPPA: That's a big mystery, and nobody really understands how -- why this turned out the way it did. She was offered life. Her attorney at the time counselled her not to take it, and here we are. And that's something her lawyers have been trying to dispute, the disproportionality of the sentences.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Her children spoke out, obviously trying to save her life, on her behalf. Pope Francis tried to save her life. What -- what were her last 24 hours like?

ZAPPA: It's just been -- the whole experience has been a roller coaster. And she's had -- she's constantly been preparing to die, but she's also been hoping for clemency. She's been trying to stay strong for her children.

In fact, one of the many tragedies of today was that her children were supposed to be with her, but they were forced to choose between speaking with the Board of Pardon and Paroles or being with Kelly. And they chose to plead for her life. So she didn't even get to be with them today and get to say good-bye to them in person.

CAMEROTA: Let's bring out Joey. ZAPPA: That was difficult.

CAMEROTA: That -- we can only imagine how difficult that is for them.

Let's bring in Joey Jackson. So Joey, we don't mean to downplay the crime. Obviously, there's a man dead here. But explain how there can be this disparity between disproportionate death sentence that she received versus the person who actually did the stabbings.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Alisyn.

Good morning, Kelly [SIC].

What happens is, is that there's a process, and the process provides for the death penalty if it's a murder-for-hire case.

Now what happens is that prosecutors have a very great deal of discretion. And at the time, as you heard, she was offered a plea deal. She declined that plea deal and opted to move forward. And in the discretion of the prosecutor, they sought the death penalty, put forward their case; and it was compelling enough for them to get the case.

And so certainly, one of the arguments is that this disproportionality. The fact that the person who actually committed the stabbing in the neck, in the back, you know, did not get the death penalty, because he cut a deal with the prosecutor and the fact that she did. But it was, in fact, offered. And what was offered to her is you don't move forward. And as a result of that, you'll spend the rest of your life in jail. She declined that.

[06:05:07] And so we can argue that all day and all night, but the Georgia law, as different laws provide for the death penalty in various states -- 31 states have it, 19 don't -- but that's the process. And as a result, she, of course, is dead.

CAMEROTA: Reverend Zappa, why didn't she take that plea deal that would have spared her life?

ZAPPA: You know, I mean, her attorney at the time counseled her not to. And I think she put a lot of faith in that decision.

It's absolutely true that there's a process. And yet, the other piece of this is that the Board of Pardon and Paroles, it does have the option to grant clemency. And in several of the cases where they have granted clemency in the last 40 years, it's been because the sentence was disproportionate to the co-defendant.

JACKSON: One of the other issues is very important; it's the issue of rehabilitation. And what you have to look at, Alisyn, is the system provides, in all types of criminal justice cases, for punishment, deterrence and rehabilitation. Very important principles of the system.

And the argument here is why not evaluate the extent to which she was rehabilitated? And if we're going to have a system that's predicated upon a person who could redeem themselves, who could get better, who could find Christ, who could find a redeemable quality that would be better for society, why not view that and evaluate that? The parole board opted not to. That's their discretion to do that, but that's the argument.

CAMEROTA: Isn't it the Death Row isn't really for rehabilitation? I mean, haven't we given up? People who are on Death Row, we don't believe that they're going to be rehabilitated.

JACKSON: I think what Reverend Zappa would argue, what the pope would argue and what others would argue is that there's always hope, and there's always an opportunity, if you have the commitment to move forward. Certainly here, she got a theology degree. She, by all means, was assisting and ministering to other people.

And listen: The parole board has the right to say, "You committed the crime. There are victims here. That person who died was savaged, his body eaten in the woods, left for dead." So certainly, we can't lose sight of that. And the parole board opted to say, "You know what? She deserves and was given the death penalty. We're going to carry it out."

CAMEROTA: Reverend Zappa, do you believe she was a changed person?

ZAPPA: Absolutely. Absolutely. I didn't know her 18 years ago, but the person I know is not capable of that. Kelly is so deeply remorseful at the same time of what she's done. Her transition has been real. Her kids will tell you that. The chaplain who's worked with her for 18 years will tell you that.

CAMEROTA: Did she -- did she ever explain to you why she did the crime to begin with?

ZAPPA: She's talked a lot about just the kind of person she was at that time. She said that she was very selfish, she lived a bit of a crazy lifestyle and didn't really know how to love other people like she does now. But I don't -- we haven't really talked in detail about that. I do know she is deeply remorseful -- was.

CAMEROTA: We know that you were a friend of hers. She became a friend to you over these past five years, and we know that you're feeling that loss this morning.

Joey, I just want to say that the Georgia Supreme Court, the chief of the Georgia Supreme Court, Pope Francis, this woman's children, all appealed on her behalf to ask for her to get life instead of death. Why wasn't the parole board more flexible on that?

JACKSON: There's a couple ways to evaluate that, Alisyn. The first way is that the system has to look at whether any legal errors at all were committed here.

And the fact is, is that if the legal process carries itself out, and a jury in its wisdom opted to give death then, of course, they have the discretion. And why go against a jury's decision after they evaluated the facts and the evidence? That's one view. And that apparently is the view they've taken.

The other view is that why have a clemency board if they're not going to evaluate and otherwise consider compelling evidence, like people who have come to know you, and have come to find that you have really turned your life around.

But again, there are five members of that board. A majority have to vote. The governor doesn't have discretion, but he appoints that board to seven-year terms. And they considered everything. And they decided, look, you did a heinous crime. You were a participant. You were the impetus of it, even if you didn't actually stab them yourself. And as a result, you're going to pay the ultimate price.

CAMEROTA: Joey Jackson, Reverend Cathy Zappa, we appreciate both of you being on with us this morning. Thank you.

ZAPPA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, Alisyn.

Fireworks on Capitol Hill over funding for Planned Parenthood. The organization's president grilled for five hours at a heated congressional hearing. The defiant Cecile Richards rejected allegations that Planned Parenthood profits from the sale of fetal tissue, calling it "untrue and offensive."

CNN national correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is live in Washington. Quite an emotional day on the Hill.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really was. This was the stand-off that many Republicans were waiting for. The line of questioning aimed at Planned Parenthood, it ranged from accusations around hosting pricey parties and over-the-top fundraisers to providing abortion.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[06:10:12] RICHARDS: The outrageous accusations leveled against Planned Parenthood based on heavily doctored videos are offensively and categorically untrue.

MALVEAUX (voice-over): In an emotional and fiery hearing on Capitol Hill Tuesday...

DUNCAN: Do you defend the sale of baby body parts?

RICHARDS: No.

MALVEAUX: GOP members grilling Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards for more than four hours over the company's use of roughly $450 million annually in federal funding. REP. MICK MULVANEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: You could have provided

every single service to every single woman last year if you did not get a penny from the discretionary fund from the United States Congress.

RICHARDS: Well, I actually disagree.

MALVEAUX: At one point, Republican representatives slammed for their line of questioning.

REP. GERALD CONNOLLY (D), VIRGINIA: The disrespect, the misogyny rampant here today tells us what is really going on here.

DUNCAN: Surely you don't expect us to be easier on you because you're a woman.

RICHARDS: Absolutely not. That's not how my momma raised me.

MALVEAUX: Congresswomen on both sides of the aisle fiercely advocating their positions.

REP. CYNTHIA LUMMIS (R), WYOMING: Why do you need federal dollars? You're getting a ton of dough.

REP. BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN (D), NEW JERSEY: We've got so much good work to do, but instead what do we do? We harp on a woman's right to make choices that are hers to make.

MALVEAUX: Richards then asked to explain the apology she issued after this undercover video surfaced in July. It was the first in a series produced by anti-abortion activists, discussing the transfer of fetal tissue with Planned Parenthood employees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which statements were you apologizing for?

RICHARDS: I was apologizing for the -- what was said in a nonclinical setting, in a non-appropriate way. And I don't believe...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't go both ways. You can't have -- you can't say I'm apologizing for statements in one video and then not tell us what those statements were.

MALVEAUX: Richards reacting to the hearing on MSNBC Tuesday night.

RICHARDS: They are obsessed with ending access to reproductive health care for women in America.

MALVEAUX: Some Democrats at the hearing agreed.

REP. CAROLYN MALONEY (D), NEW YORK: Republicans are doubling down on their war against women.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Senate Republicans' efforts to shut down the government over the federal funding of Planned Parenthood failed. Well, today House lawmakers, they're going to take up the issue as part of a vote to continue to fund the government -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: We're going to take up the issue right here on NEW DAY, Suzanne. Thank you for that.

We'll have more about this battle over Planned Parenthood funding. In our next hour, we're going to speak to the organization's No. 2, Dawn Laguens, as well as Republican Congresswoman Diane Black, who wants to defund Planned Parenthood.

And coming up in our 8 a.m. hour, we'll talk to David Daleidin. He's the activist who produced those controversial undercover videos.

CUOMO: We have breaking news out of Afghanistan. Thousands are fleeing the northern city of Kunduz this morning. Afghan security forces are unable to take back the city from the Taliban, despite U.S. airstrikes and the support of NATO special forces.

Let's bring in CNN's Nic Robertson live from London with the very latest. You know, people think, Syria, Iraq. They forget there's a war going on in Afghanistan. What's the latest?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the war against the Taliban has been getting stronger. The Taliban were pushed back yesterday out of some places they had taken. They'd taken the jail, released 600 people, 110 of them Taliban. The government took that back. But by the end of the day, the Taliban were on their front foot again, retaking that from the government. They have surrounded the government forces, and therefore, the government can't get enough reinforcements in, because the Taliban have cut the main highway to the south where those reinforcements would come from.

The U.N. is exceptionally worried right now. They say 600,000 people have fled the city. But the roads in and out of the city, they say more than 100 civilians have been killed and injured. The government, Afghan government says that the Taliban right now are using people as human shields. The Afghan government says more than 100 Taliban have been killed, including their commander, in a U.S. airstrike.

The Taliban say that's not true. The commander is still alive. It is a very confusing picture.

But the reality on the ground here is the Afghan forces are struggling. They need the U.S. air support. Most of the Taliban casualties have come as a result of that. The Taliban are not giving up easily. And details of the casualties that are occurring right now on the ground, those specific details very hard to come by -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Nick. Thanks so much for all of that.

The United States pulling spies from China in an effort to protect their identities following that cyber-attack on the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, which affected about 21 million government workers. The U.S. concerned the Chinese intelligence can figure out the identities of U.S. intelligence agents now. This comes days after President Obama met with China's president, who vowed to work with the U.S. to stop those cyber-attacks.

PEREIRA: Tropical Storm Joaquin is on the verge of becoming a hurricane. It could pose a serious flood threat to major cities all along the East Coast, which are already getting soaked with heavy rain. An incredible amount of rain as possible from the mid-Atlantic to southern New England through early next week.

[06:15:14] Meteorologist Chad Myers joins us live with a look at the forecast. Time to get those gum boots out, it sounds like.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm afraid so, Michaela.

And now we're really saturating the ground with this rain. And could you imagine now another hurricane going over saturated ground with all the roots completely in mud?

Rain in New York City but only up to Boston today. The heaviest rain is in New England.

Now I'll take you down to the South. This is Joaquin. This got significantly more important today than it was yesterday, because now forecast to be a Cat 2 hurricane at some point in its life. Still drifting towards the Bahamas. And the American model is taking it up and turning it toward North Carolina, but some of the other models that we talk about -- we talked about them in Sandy, too -- not doing that.

But look, 110-mile-per-hour storm there off the Florida coast. So what are the U.S. models doing? Turning it back toward the left. Turning it around the backside and a trough that could drag it back even toward New York City.

But what is the European model doing? Taking it from the Bahamas and sending it out to the ocean. Big difference. Huge difference. Does it go to Bermuda or does it go to the U.S.? We don't know just yet. We know the European model did very good with Sandy five days out. We don't know what it will do now. Things are completely different.

What we do know: whether Joaquin hits the U.S. or not, there's going to be more flooding here, because this isn't even from Joaquin. This moisture here, this rain is from a big low pressure center that's going to develop off the East Coast, not even affected by Joaquin. But it's going to make significant rainfall, more flooding. Could be 10 more inches of rain with or without Joaquin.

CUOMO: Stay on it. We'll stay with you, my friend. We'll check back in a little bit.

So the case against Planned Parenthood, very big hearing on Capitol Hill. Republicans want to cut federal funds because of its lawful procuring of fetal tissue and abortions. What the president of the organization said and what happens next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:20:43] RICHARDS: The latest smear campaign is based on efforts by our opponents to entrap our doctors and clinicians into breaking the law and, once again, our opponents failed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: We heard the accusations; we heard the answers. So, should Planned Parenthood be defunded? To discuss, Ben Ferguson, CNN political commentator, the host of "The Ben Ferguson Show"; and Maria Cardona, CNN political commentary and Democratic strategist.

Ben, take the prosecution, because that's really what this is. What's the best case to get rid of Planned Parenthood or defund it, in essence? And, Maria, you respond.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The fact they have people are on camera talking about selling baby parts is where I would start.

And I want to make this very clear. This is not about taking away a woman's right to choose. This -- if we defund Planned Parenthood, this does not change Roe v. Wade. So people that are trying to fear monger saying, this is trying to take away a woman's right to choose, it's not. This is about.

CAMEROTA: Ben, Ben, I have to stop you there. Ben, hold on.

FERGUSON: No, no, let me finish.

CAMEROTA: If you take away -- if you stop access...

FERGUSON: Let me finish.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead.

FERGUSON: Let me finish.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead.

FERGUSON: You have the same right, if we defunded Planned Parenthood with my tax dollars. And the point is this: You do not take a half a billion dollars of taxpayers' funds to give to an organization that butchers babies to sell their parts and was caught on camera multiple times.

You can say that these videos were doctored. There are multiple videos that have been put out in their full length that are not doctored that blatantly show people in leadership roles at Planned Parenthood selling baby parts, which has nothing to do with a woman's right to choose. I want to make that very clear. That's why my tax dollars should go to it.

CAMEROTA: OK. Maria, I want to give you the opportunity to respond here. But what Ben is saying is a fact is exactly what Planned Parenthood is saying is not a fact. That they're trying to recoup their costs for something that is purely legal, and that is donation of fetal tissue. Maria, go.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTARY: That's exactly right. I think that the facts here matter, even though I know that Republicans love to live in a fact-free zone.

No. 1, Planned Parenthood is an organization nationwide that gives access to life-saving healthcare services to 2.7 million Americans every single year. If you take away the funding from Planned Parenthood, that will go away and, yes, 3 percent of that goes to abortion services. And none of that is paid -- none of the abortion part, except for the ones that are allowed under the law, is paid by taxpayer dollars.

CUOMO: So Maria...

CARDONA: Hang on.

FERGUSON: Maria...

CARDONA: Hang on. Let me finish, Ben.

CUOMO: not going to happen.

CARDONA: The part that the videos show, and by the way, those videos have already been debunked by a forensic investigation. They were sliced, diced and spliced.

FERGUSON: They haven't been debunked.

CARDONA: And in today's digital world, you can take videos to show whatever you want to show...

FERGUSON: Maria.

CARDONA: ... and that's exactly what this organization did.

FERGUSON: Maria.

CARDONA: By the way, this organization has been...

FERGUSON: It's a great talking point.

CARDONA: ... trying to take away a woman's right to choose for many, many years. So the bottom line is, it was legal...

FERGUSON: Let me...

CUOMO: Maria, hold on. You made your point. Maria, you made your point.

CARDONA: What Planned Parenthood did was absolutely legal.

FERGUSON: OK. Let me say this. Let me say this. CARDONA: It was part of the services that they provide.

CUOMO: You made your point.

FERGUSON: Chris...

CARDONA: What they do is provide life-saving services to women across the country.

CAMEROTA: OK, Ben.

FERGUSON: All right. You're not going to run out the clock on this one. OK? Let's be clear. You -- this idea that they sliced these tapes. Let's deal with that for a moment.

CARDONA: It's not an idea. It's the truth.

FERGUSON: You cannot -- let me finish. Let me finish. You can say that all you want to and say there's a conspiracy.

The fact is you have high executives at Planned Parenthood openly talking about performing abortions in different ways to get the vital organs of babies to people that want to pay for them. You cannot deny that that was a conversation that happened in multiple locations around the country.

And it's an absolute lie to imply that this conversation did not happen. This conversation happened. It happened on video. It happened with multiple people in multiple locations. And just because you put a press release out and you all go to this training to say, "Oh, well, they sliced and diced it," the video is...

[06:25:13] CAMEROTA: Hold on, guys.

Hold on, guys.

FERGUSON: They are in the business of selling baby parts.

CAMEROTA: Ben, hold on a second. Because this is the bottom line, is that s you know, they say that they're not selling baby parts for a profit. That they are...

FERGUSON: The videos say they do.

CAMEROTA: Well, sort of. I mean, the video...

CARDONA: Of course...

CAMEROTA: Hold on a second. The video says -- they're saying it's between $30 and $100. This is hardly -- hold on, guys. Wait a second. Hold on, Maria. Because this is the bottom line.

Planned Parenthood has one version of events, and they say that the videos are heavily doctored. The people who make the videos say that there's no editing whatsoever. Who will be the ultimate arbiter of this? I mean, who is the investigative body that is going to tell us the truth as to whether or not there's editing? Because they each have their own investigations that they've done. Maria, where will we find out?

CARDONA: Well, if you even talk to the people who put out this video, they will tell you that this is -- that this is something that they actually put together by slicing and dicing.

FERGUSON: No, they have not.

CARDONA: And that at the end of the day, they have not -- Ben, let me finish. At the end of the day, they haven't able -- they were not able to prove that Planned Parenthood did anything illegal because, by the way, what they do do, and they are not paid for, is that they do -- they take fetal tissue, which the women who are having these abortions, sometimes by necessity, are asking for the fetal tissue to be given to science for, again, life-saving research.

The bottom line here is, though, this is...

FERGUSON: Let me ask you this, Maria.

CARDONA: Hang on a second.

FERGUSON: Let me ask a question.

CARDONA: Let me finish. This is completely political. And I know that this is political crack for Republican base, which will help whatever -- whoever is running to win the nomination. But if you focus on this...

CAMEROTA: OK.

FERGUSON: Maria, let me say this.

CAMEROTA: Ben, ten seconds.

CARDONA: It will be a political...

FERGUSON: Let me say this. This is very important.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Ben. Hold on, Maria.

CARDONA: The majority of women support Planned Parenthood as majority of Americans, do.

CAMEROTA: Maria, you've got to give Ben a final rejoinder. Go.

FERGUSON: This is the part that is shocking to me. The obsession with defending a group, and I'll say it this way. I cannot imagine under any circumstance where a woman would look at her doctor at Planned Parenthood during or before an abortion, and ask them to perform that abortion in a different way to then be able to sell the baby parts of the child they're aborting.

To imply that that's a normal conversation shows just how perverted and sick Planned Parenthood actually is. Because no woman says, crush the baby in a different way to save the organs to then sell them.

CAMEROTA: Ben, Maria, guys...

CARDONA: That shows you know nothing about what happens at Planned Parenthood

CAMEROTA: This is a perfect illustration of why this is such a heated debate on Capitol Hill and beyond. We appreciate you both being on.

CUOMO: And why I'm against these types of remote debates. I think they're a waste of time. I think they're unproductive. People don't move off their position on this issue. It's more moral than it is logical. But we will have the players on. That could be helpful to you.

You have the man who made the videos. You have one of the main people at Planned Parenthood. We will test their positions. That will be helpful.

People do not move on this issue. It doesn't happen. It's become very analogous to guns in this country. You believe what you believe on a moral level, facts be damned.

CAMEROTA: All right. There you go -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. Has the U.S. shifted its position on Syria? John Kerry now calling Russia's involvement in Syria a possible opportunity for America. How can that be? You'll hear the secretary in his own words when NEW DAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)