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Carson Doubles Down on Oregon Massacre Comments; Clinton Breaks with Obama on Trans-Pacific Trade Deal; House Conservatives Reject McCarthy for Speaker; U.S. Planes Diverted to Avoid Russian Jet Over Syria; No Survivors Found of Missing Cargo Ship. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired October 08, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:03] ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, a survivor of the shooting has responded, telling CNN, quote, "I'm fairly upset he said that. Nobody could truly understand what actions they would take like that in a situation unless they lived it."

Carson first commented on the massacre on Tuesday, telling ABC News what he would have done.

BEN CARSON, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would ask everybody to attack the gunman, because he can only shoot one of us at a time. That way, we don't all wind up dead.

I would not just stand there and let him shoot me. I would say, "Hey, guys, everybody attack him. He may shoot me, but he can't get us all.

JONES: But just a day later, the former brain surgeon recounting a much different reaction when he was once held at gunpoint in Baltimore, to Sirius XM Radio.

CARSON: The guy comes in, puts the gun in my ribs, and I just said, "I believe that you want the guy behind the counter." He thought I was...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In that calm way?

CARSON: In that calm way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In that calm way, OK.

CARSON: He said, "Oh, OK."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, so you just redirected him to...

CARSON: Yes, redirected him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

JONES: On Wednesday, an unlikely ally coming to Carson's defense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Trump, real quick on Ben Carson, you're tweeting differently about him. Are you defending him?

TRUMP: Well, I thought he was treated unfairly. (END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: Now, Trump and Carson have been holding their fire against one another in recent weeks. Trump even said he'd tap Carson for a cabinet position if he wins, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Athena. Thank you very much.

So let's shift now over to Hillary Clinton. What's behind her course correction on trade and these recent jabs at President Obama? CNN's Brianna Keilar live in our Washington bureau with more. What do you see, my friend?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: She is breaking big here, Chris, with President Obama when it comes to the trans-Pacific trade partnership, which is his signature trade deal.

She has said that she does not support it. And she's also breaking with herself, because she has said that this is the gold standard of trade deals in the past when she was secretary of state. Really, just add this to the list of things that she has broken with President Obama on.

For instance, she has supported scrapping a Cadillac plan tax that pays for a chunk of Obamacare. She has supported a no-fly zone in Syria. And she has said that the Obama administration deportation practices are too harsh.

So these things, along with the trade deal, show she's trying to create some distance, especially as V.P. Joe Biden is weighing a run for the presidency. At this point, his office says he's very much behind this trade deal. And you have other Democratic challengers who are sort of either kind of criticizing Clinton. Bernie Sanders, who's really challenging Clinton saying this is a place where I was -- where I was, really, from day one. It's good that she's gotten to Martin O'Malley, who's really low in the polls, accusing her of reversing position right ahead of this debate that, of course, CNN is hosting next week -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right. We're looking forward to that. In Las Vegas, five days away, Brianna, thanks so much.

House conservatives dealing a possible blow to House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy's path to the speakership. This as a private vote on a nominee happens today.

CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju live on the Hill for us.

Hi, Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Michaela.

It is a drama-filled day here on Capitol Hill, where Republicans just shortly will gather behind closed doors to select their nominee for speaker. And what we're expecting is that Kevin McCarthy, who is currently John Boehner's No. 2 man as the House majority leader, he does have enough support in order to win that Republican nomination.

You just need 125 votes to become the next speaker candidate for the Republicans, but the challenge for McCarthy will be what will happen on the House floor, later this month, on October 29, when the full House will have to decide who they want to select as speaker. And that threshold needing 218 votes in order to become the speaker of the House. Kevin McCarthy does not yet have that 218 votes.

And why? Largely because of that House Freedom Caucus. Those conservatives who yesterday announced their support for Daniel Webster, who's a long-shot candidate, a conservative from Florida, to take that speakership. Webster does not have enough support to become House speaker, but those conservatives could band together, if they so choose, and make life very difficult for Kevin McCarthy and try to prevent him from ascending to that speakership later this month -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Manu, thanks so much for all that background.

Meanwhile, Russia's airstrike in Syria posing a threat of a clash between Russia and the west that has not been seen since the Cold War.

CNN's Barbara Starr has all the latest for us, live from the Pentagon. What's happening this morning, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

All of this now is aimed at keeping U.S. Pilots safe over Syria. A couple of days ago, two F-16s try to strike an ISIS target, came within 20 miles of a Russian fighter jet.

And under new rules, the F-16s broke off and changed direction. The new rules require U.S. pilots to move away when they are within 20 miles of a Russian jet. Not that they think the Russians are going to aggressively shoot them down. But the Russians are very unpredictable in their flying practices. And this is an effort, the Pentagon says, to absolutely make sure U.S. pilots are kept safe.

[07:05:17] So Russian pilots coming close to U.S. fighter jets. Russian pilots also coming close to U.S. drones flying over Syria. Also another concern, obviously, those unmanned drones.

All of this coming as Russia also stepping up its naval strikes, its ground action. Something the U.S. intelligence community is watching very carefully. They believe one of the big messages from Moscow here is Putin is saying, "My troops are out there. My troops can reach out and touch" -- Chris.

CUOMO: Barbara Starr, very daunting and also a little surprising to U.S. intelligence.

Let's talk about that not. Have they been blindsided by what Russia is doing? And also, what do you make of the as what do you make of the House Republicans to disband the Benghazi committee Wednesday?

Let's discuss this with Adam Schiff, a senior Democratic member of the Benghazi committee and ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, it's very good to have you with us this morning. Let's unpack these one by one. Why should that committee be disbanded with Hillary Clinton's date to testify coming up? Why not let her get up there, say what she has to say and then decide?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, DCALIFORNIA: I'm sure she will get up and testify and say what she has to say. Frankly, this committee has long outlived its usefulness. It has lost focus on what it was established, purportedly, to do. And that is discover something new about the events of that tragic night.

Unfortunately, it has been all about Secretary Clinton and trying to take her numbers down, which as Representative McCarthy made clear last week, is their sole focus. And that's a terrible use of taxpayer dollars.

If Chris, after 17 months and $4.5 million, the committee still cannot tell you what it is looking for, it's time to take the committee down.

CUOMO: The pushback is, one, you're not taking Kevin McCarthy with the benefit of context. He's saying what they discovered is for Benghazi and what wasn't being revealed is what motivated the downturn in her numbers, not that it was about downturning -- turning her numbers down.

Two, what we've seen with the e-mails is that there may be more there than what Hillary Clinton was transparent about, and that's why we don't know the full story about Benghazi, and that's why we keep investigating. Your response?

SCHIFF: The response is, you know, at least according to our chairman, our subcommittee, or select committee is not supposed to be about her e-mails. If the Justice Department has an issue over the classification of it, of e-mails, or whether they have all the e-mails that they're supposed to have, that's for the Justice Department to decide.

And the chairman saying that's not what this committee is about. So what is our committee about, and unfortunately, after 17 months, the chair and the Republican members still can't answer that question.

I think Mr. McCarthy's after the fact to try efforts to rationalize his comments or re-explain them, don't answer the history of the committee. This isn't just about what McCarthy said on a given day, as honest an admission as that was. It's the fact that this committee has conducted business without Democrats present. They've interviewed witnesses without telling us when those witnesses didn't corroborate their conspiracy theories. They selectively leak material. They've gained no new insights into the facts of that day. It's the cumulative impact of how this committee has operated. It's a lack of substance. And then when you have on top of it the very top Republican leadership saying, well, it's not really what it's about. It's about taking her numbers down, then you know, you have to conclude enough is enough in terms of this waste of taxpayer dollars. CUOMO: Next topic: there are reports coming into CNN that U.S. intel

missed Russia's incursion into Syria, didn't see it coming, didn't prepare for it. What do you think about that?

SCHIFF: Well, I think if you go back a few months, it's certainly the case that I don't think our intelligence agencies estimated that Russia would go in with air power, go in with ground power.

I think the expectation was probably more that they would continue and maybe escalate the level of material support for the regime. But look, I'm not sure if that's the decision the Russians made or that Putin made, because he's the decision maker, obviously, there. That may not be a decision that he made until fairly recently.

So again, the intelligence committee doesn't have a crystal ball any more than the rest of us. I think once we began to see signs of what the Russians were up to, then I think the intelligence committee reported that information to us. But it's difficult to fault them for knowing exactly what Putin said before he makes the decisions himself.

CUOMO: You know, we had a guy on from Russian television. He said, you know, Russia wants to work with the U.S. when it comes to ISIS. They have more to feel afraid about when it comes to ISIS than the U.S. does. I mean, they have big Muslim populations. They're closer in terms of access to land. So they would do that.

[07:10:09] And in terms of Assad, what's the mystery? We're backing up Assad? Russia's backing them up. They've said that he's the only legitimate ruler there. And they're going to do it. We don't think that they'll put a lot of troops on the ground, but that's what they're doing.

If it's so out in the open, why does the U.S. seem so confused by the motivations and the way forward?

SCHIFF: Well, I don't think we're confused by the motivations. But I think it's certainly true that Putin isn't being very honest about what his motivations are. They announced this military campaign as a way of going after ISIS, as a way of trying to defeat ISIS.

But then they went and attacked not ISIS but the moderate opposition. It's very much, Chris, taking a page out of what the Turks have done. The Turks announced a few months ago, you might recall, that they were joining the campaign against ISIS, and what did they do?

They went in and bombed the Kurds. So I think similarly, the Russians are using the threat from ISIS, which is a real threat to them, as well as to us. As a shield for their true objective, which is propping up a friendly regime, maintaining their military basis.

In that respect, ISIS is useful to Putin. That doesn't diminish from the fact that ISIS is a scourge, and ultimately, this may end up biting Putin, because you make this kind of Hobbesian deal where you give ISIS free reign, where you weaken the forces that are fighting against ISIS, and it will often come back and bite you, as well. CUOMO: Well, the criticism on the political side is that it makes the

United States look weak. Russia does whatever it wants. Turkey does whatever it wants. Russia did this in Ukraine with Crimea. The U.S. says it's not right. We don't like it. And Russia basically just nods its head and does whatever it wants anyway.

Is the United States being weak in these situations? Should there have been a harder stance? Does this speak to a lack of cohesiveness and strategy in that region?

SCHIFF: I definitely think we should be taking a harder stance against Russia. I've been saying that for some time, urging that we supply, for example, defensive weapons to Ukraine to help defend themselves against this onslaught.

And in Syria, I think we have to reconsider options that the administration has been reluctant to move forward with. And that might mean a no-fly zone in the southern part of Syria. It might mean taking a position that we're not going to allow Bashar al-Assad to continue barrel bombing his own population, and sending message -- he sends up helicopters to barrel bomb people, we're going to take those down.

I think these are steps that we're going to have to consider anew. Because there are reputational costs to be seen as not willing to support people that -- that we're behind, not willing to take a strong position and being challenged by others. I think that has implications that extend far beyond Syria and the Middle East.

Representative Adam Schiff, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Mick.

PEREIRA: All right. The Coast Guard has ended the search for survivors from the sunken container ship El Faro. Now a U.S. Navy salvage team will begin the underwater search for the wreckage.

CNN's Alexandra Field joins us live with more.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Michaela.

Thirty-three people lost at sea, 28 Americans, 5 Polish nationals. And the Coast Guard now deciding that they have to suspend the efforts to try and rescue these people, to try and find survivors. They spent seven days looking for crew members. They covered some 183,000 square nautical miles.

We actually heard from the family member of one crew member who expressed sympathy for the Coast Guard for having to make this painful announcement to suspend the search for survivors last night at sunset. We're hearing from family members of other crew members who say the pain has only magnified now by knowing that any remaining hope has been distinguished.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLAUDIA SHULTZ, WIFE OF EL FARO CREW MEMBER: I just want him back. Even if it's just his body. I want him back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all do. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FIELD: While this is no longer a rescue mission, there is a mission to recover. The Navy has taken over efforts to find the ship that sank as it sailed into the path of a hurricane. From there, the NTSB will be sending in underwater vehicles to try and retrieve the data recorder. And we know that, in instances like this, the data recorders can hold a lot of the key information. This is a ship that lost propulsion. The question now for investigators is why? Hopefully, some of the audio on those recorders will lead to answers.

CAMEROTA: It's just so heartbreaking, particularly when there's mysteries surrounding it. Alexandra, thanks so much.

About three hours from now the chairman of Volkswagen of America will testify before the House Energy Committee about the so-called diesel gauge scandal. Congress investigating the German car giant's admitted use of software to cheat on U.S. admissions -- emissions tests. Volkswagen recalling millions of diesel cars. They could face billions in fines.

CUOMO: Can you do me a favor? See if that sock fell behind the dryer. Is it there? No. What is it? Oh, just a king cobra. What? A woman in central Florida discovers a deadly hooded viper behind her dryer. Yes, there's a microchip in it, confirming it belongs to reality TV's Mike Kennedy, who's an airplane repo.

This is no joke, though. The snake was on the loose about a month. Kennedy charged with waiting more than two days before reporting the snake's escape.

PEREIRA: I now have another excuse for not doing the laundry tonight. There could be a king cobra behind the machine.

CAMEROTA: It could be dangerous -- you're so right, laundry.

PEREIRA: Yes, that's no joke.

CUOMO: Did you see the movie as a kid, "Rikki-Tikki-Tavi?"

CAMEROTA: No.

CUOMO: You did? Bruce saw it. "Rikki-Tikki-Tavi" is the story of this mongoose, right? And its big nemesis is this cobra named Nag. And that snake goes into the laundry room, too. Brought back memories.

CAMEROTA: There you go.

All right. By land, by sea, by air, Russia making its military presence felt in Syria. They claim they're targeting ISIS. But U.S. officials believe that is not the case. We'll have reaction from our military experts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: The U.S. forced to divert two planes over Syria to get away from a Russian fighter jet. Russian officials say they are targeting ISIS, but the U.S. is skeptical.

Joining us now is retired Major General James "Spider" Marks, CNN military analyst, and now the executive dean of the University of Phoenix.

Great to have you in the studio with us. Let's talk about this.

[07:20:08] So these two F-16s were forced to divert, to retreat, basically, because they came within 20 miles of this Russian jet. Why is the U.S. having to retreat?

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: What we don't want to do is pick a fight with Russia. We have never had had a hot war with Russia or with the Soviet Union, and we don't want to do that.

However, when the Russians send a general officer into our embassy in Baghdad and say, "You guys need to get out of the air. We're about to start flying missions," we should say, "Great, we won't pick a fight. However, we're going to swarm every aircraft we have and we will fly in a very designated area. You need to watch out for us. Not us watching out for you."

So I understand diverting so we don't have an accident. That makes perfect sense, but I think we need to show far more presence and a lot more strength.

CAMEROTA: Doesn't it also show that we're not coordinating with them? They're not supposed to come within 20 miles.

MARKS: Exactly, we are not coordinating. We might be talking to each other at the top level, but where it matters inside the cockpit, inside those control centers, we're not talking.

CAMEROTA: Do you have a sense that that's going to change? I mean, what's the plan here for what's going to happen?

MARKS: No, I really -- we have no experience working at that level with the Russians. I mean, this is new for us. We know how to conduct diplomatic dialogue, but at that level where it really matters, we've not done this before. I don't see this changing, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Russia is also sending up attacks by sea, as you know. They have fired 26 long-range cruise missiles on Syrian targets from the Caspian Sea, roughly 930 miles away from their target.

As I understand it, that's the first time that Russia is using long- range land attack missiles other than in training. What does this say to you?

MARKS: It's big time. What that really shows is what we've always known is they've got the technology that we have. They're now employing it in a way internationally that we've never seen before.

We just look at the map and look at the overflight. They've violated the airspace of Iran. They've essentially violated the airspace of a little bit of Turkey, as well, which is a big-time problem. They're doing that without asking any questions at all.

CAMEROTA: So what is the backlash for this? What does Turkey and Iraq and Iran do?

They'll say don't do that again. That's it. I mean, there's very little they can do after the fact. Russia has established that they will do with impunity what they want to do. And the U.S. is now in a position to respond, which is important. Unfortunately, the initiative belongs to Russia.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Russia also says that they were going to be targeted ISIS targets, but in fact, they are targeting the opposition from what the U.S. can tell. So, now what?

MARKS: Oh, completely. When you look at these targets, you see where, you know, Assad's forces are along. And anti-regime forces are kind of positioned between where Assad is and where ISIS is. And where Russia is attacking, they are going after targets that are anti- regime. They are going after those forces that are designed to try to take Assad down. That's not the intent here.

CAMEROTA: So the U.S. also launching airstrikes against ISIS during this time?

MARKS: Yes, absolutely. We will continue to do that. And certainly not in the same volume, Alisyn, not in the same volume. Russia has probably done 20 to 25. The United States, since the end of September to this date, has done about six. There's a mismatch in terms of the violence that can be applied on the ground.

CAMEROTA: OK. So there's a mismatch. And we're working at cross purposes. I mean, so how do you see this playing out?

MARKS: Well, the real issue to me is that we have spent American treasure. We've put ourselves at risk. We've put ourselves politically at risk. And we're saying we want to train anti-regime forces, but we want them to go against the regime. We need to let that loose and let them go against ISIS and against the regime.

But we also have to build that up a little bit. But the message we're sending right now is that you're kind of on your own.

We're going after ISIS, Russia's going after you.

CAMEROTA: In just in the past hour, Reuters is reporting that U.S. lawmakers plan to launch a probe into whether or not U.S. intelligence agencies were surprised by all of this. Do you think that we had any idea of what Russia was planning?

MARKS: I think we have a magnificent intelligence community. We have an incredible collection capabilities. It's what you do about it. That's what concerns me.

CAMEROTA: Do you think we knew before -- what Russia was planning?

MARKS: I'm certain we did. I'm certain we did. It's how you work that. You provide a conundrum, essentially, when you say, "This is what we know. This is what we've seen. This is what we assess. Now what are you going to do about it? That's where we are.

CAMEROTA: Spider, thanks so much for coming in -- Chris.

MARKS: Dr. Ben Carson revealing he was once threatened at gunpoint. Did he take his own advice and rush the gunman like he said the Oregon massacre victims should have? Hear what happened in Carson's own words, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:28:44] CUOMO: Carson controversy again. The neurosurgeon and GOP growing star claims everyone in the Oregon shooting should have rushed the gunman instead of sitting back and getting shot. And in terms of extending background checks to all gun sales as part of preventing more violence, Carson insists he'd rather see a body riddled with bullet holes than more gun control.

Meanwhile, FOX News owner Rupert Murdoch came out in support of Carson, tweeting Carson would be a, quote, "real black president."

PEREIRA: Russia seizing the military initiative from the U.S. and Syria. Moscow says it struck ISIS infrastructure targets overnight with cruise missiles. The Pentagon said two U.S. aircraft had to be diverted from the path of Russian fighter jet in the skies over Syria, this as Russia involvement escalates. Defense Secretary Ash Carter is ruling out military cooperation against ISIS.

CAMEROTA: The U.S. government -- sorry, Michaela -- is taking on rogue drones. The FAA is testing technology that can detect small unmanned aircraft that fly within a five-mile radius of certain airports. The system reportedly can pinpoint the drone operator and force the drone to land. Federal officials say there's been a sharp rise in reports of drones getting too close to runways.

PEREIRA: The Cowboys' Greg Hardy, fresh back from a suspension for assaulting an ex-girlfriend and threatening her life, is raising eyebrows once again. He says he's coming out, quote, "guns blazing against the Patriots." Curious turn of phrase. Adding, quote, "I love seeing Tom Brady. Have you seen his wife? I hope she comes to the game. And I hope her sister comes to the..."