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Carson Facing Ongoing Backlash Over Shooting Comments; Clinton Breaks With Obama On Trans-Pacific Trade Deal; Mental Health Of The Oregon Shooter. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 08, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:07] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: "I love seeing Tom Brady, have you seen his wife? I hope she comes to the game. And I hope her sister comes too." Brady is married to, of course, model, Gisele Bundchen. Hardy was convicted of assaulting his ex, turning her down on a couch covered with guns among other things, that's why I said a curious phrase, when he said guns blazing.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, not the guy to be saying those --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That person facing renewed criticism this morning over his comments that people caught in mass shootings should rush their attackers. The presidential hopeful talked about being held at gun point himself during a radio interview, but his approach to that situation was much different than the one that he's advocating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A guy comes in, puts the gun in my ribs, and I just said, I believe you that want the guy behind the counter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's what you -- in that calm way?

CARSON: In that calm -- he said, OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you just redirected him to --

CARSON: Redirected him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Here to response to all of these comments CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, Donna Brazile, and CNN political commentator and Jeb Bush supporter, Ana Navarro. Ladies, great to have you in the studio.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: You want to be responsible for everything. Not only what's up with Ben Carson's comments even the victim of the shooter has said it's upsetting to him and that had you can't do that in that scenario. Also he didn't know that Chris Mintz, a vet, had rushed the gunman and been shot seven times. So Ben Carson wasn't aware of this.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: How could you not know that Chris Mintz did this? I mean, he was all over the internet, looking fine and shirtless with seven bullets.

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: But he's a brave guy.

NAVARRO: Courageously brave.

CAMEROTA: How do you explain that, Donald Trump yesterday said that he thinks that Ben Carson is being treated unfairly, why would Donald Trump rush to Ben Carson's defense in this scenario?

NAVARRO: I don't know, the stars are all aligned. Normally he's not one that gives Twitter love. I can't explain Ben Carson. That's way beyond my pay grade and my comprehension level. I think he needs to stop digging this hole.

I don't think he meant to offend anybody, but I think he is beginning to offend some of the folks. If the victims themselves are saying, look, we are offended. It's time to stop. Move on, let's talk about national issues.

And let's not, you know, re-litigate what happened in Oregon, when you were not in that classroom. And people who were, like Chris Mintz did rush the shooter.

CUOMO: The question is, is this a pattern of what he had believes is candor that may be resonating with the base? Gay is a choice. I don't trust a Muslim unless they reject Sharia. You should rush the gunman.

Some of these may be the guy at the end of the bar-type statements. And now they've become part of the convention of running for president. So does it work for him?

BRAZILE: No, I don't think so. Short term, everything works. He's been getting an awful lot of attention. We've talked about him, what, two days. That's two days more than I'd ever talk about Ben Carson. I respect him. I think he's a great surgeon.

But when it comes to some of these issues, perhaps it's time for him to get a political adviser that will help him, so he's not out here insulting people like Chris Mintz and others who are courageous, who, of course, are still in a lot --

NAVARRO: You know what the difference is frankly between Ben Carson and Donald Trump. I don't think Ben Carson is trying to insult anybody. That's not his persona. That's not who he is, or what he comes across. But he's saying a lot of things that can be misconstrued.

CAMEROTA: Donna, strategically speaking why would Donald Trump align himself with Ben Carson? What's the play there?

BRAZILE: Look, they have -- CUOMO: I mean, he likes the way he says thing.

BRAZILE: They have good chemistry. I watched them on the stage. Good chemistry, clearly, mutual respect. So, look, whatever is going on in the Republican side, soon it will be over because we're going to have a big, big night on Tuesday when the Democrats finally get an opportunity to talk about the issues, their vision. Maybe just for one night, we don't have to talk about Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Why is your woman Hillary Clinton running away from your man Barack Obama?

BRAZILE: Look, I've got a woman and a man?

CUOMO: Yes, it's a new day. Call the police and firemen!

NAVARRO: I'm not even touching that.

BRAZILE: Look, why is the secretary of state, who once was called the gold standard, has come out against it.

[07:35:07] I think because in the final details, some of the standards that she believes should be part of this deal are not in the deal and because she understands it --

NAVARRO: Good man --

BRAZILE: Come on.

NAVARRO: Give me a break. The reason she is coming out against it because she's running for president and she's got a left problem. And Bernie Sanders is making her sweat.

BRAZILE: No, the Democrats and Republicans so we need to get independent views in this.

NAVARRO: They've been out all over the world talking up the TPP for years and years.

CAMEROTA: Did she flip-flop and doesn't stand for this?

CUOMO: She is saying TPP is OPP --

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: I think she's able to defend herself. I think she'll be able to explain why these are her view. There's no reason that Hillary Clinton should stand on every position that Barack Obama or Joe Biden or anyone else -- or that a Clinton has held before. This is Hillary Clinton's platform. This is her issue, her vision. I think she'll be able to defense herself.

NAVARRO: We've seen it before, right? She was for it before against it.

CUOMO: What's going to happen on the stage with her and Bernie? Bernie says I know there are others on the stage. Obviously there's a focus to see who can really distinguish themselves. Bernie said you're not looking at a candidate that will go against anybody personally. Do you think Hillary will go to the same standard?

BRAZILE: I think Hillary will explain where she's coming from. This is not a Republican debate. We're not going to have partisan, petty problems. We're going to have a big discussion about big issues. Democratic talking points, they're not one page. You can't put it on a 3x5 card. It's like 35 pages.

NAVARRO: There's going to be no partisan sniping?

CUOMO: It can get ugly.

BRAZILE: I'm sure it will. Martin O'Malley, Jim Webb, they're also there to play as well.

NAVARRO: And Martin O'Malley has a lot on the line. Some of these guys are really out there to go from being an asterisk to being a blip on the radar.

BRAZILE: We have 1 percent. They are all at 1 percent. This is going to be a dynamic exchange. I think Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders may be the main, you know, item of whatever contingent. But you're going to see the other candidates try to interact.

NAVARRO: I think it's going to be interesting because we haven't seen that interaction amongst the --

CUOMO: You defend what you believe and under scrutiny.

NAVARRO: And the styles are so different, right? The Bernie Sanders style versus the Hillary Clinton style. I think there should be more debates. Everybody in the Democratic Party is asking for more debates.

BRAZILE: In the Democratic Party, we have forums, we have debates, we have conversations we don't have 17 or 18.

NAVARRO: What's wrong with a debate? With every candidate on the stage, vice chair of the DNC are calling for more.

BRAZILE: Six sanctioned debates and there will be more forums around opportunities for the candidates.

NAVARRO: They're there.

CUOMO: One last quick thing. Is Hillary prepping hard for this in terms of how to deal with what comes at her?

BRAZILE: Knowing Secretary Clinton, Hillary Clinton, absolutely. This is a woman who has always done her homework. But I guarantee you, Bernie Sanders and the rest, Martin O'Malley, you notice, the five, I'm neutral. I'm trying to love five people.

NAVARRO: I can't even bring up some of their names. BRAZILE: Now that I've got my man and my woman here. By the way, can I just say something about being real black.

CUOMO: Please. You qualify.

BRAZILE: I mean, President Obama has been a dynamic good phenomenal president. And you know what, if Mr. Murdoch doesn't like this blackness --

NAVARRO: I'm not going to define what real blackness is. I don't know what it is. Certainly, the definition is not going to be set by an old white man from Australia. There you go.

CAMEROTA: Donna, Ana, I know you love to debate.

CUOMO: Ideas first.

CAMEROTA: Also, we're just five days away from that first Democratic debate hosted by CNN and Facebook. It's October 13th, 8:30 p.m. right here on CNN.

[07:40:07] If you'd like a question you'd like asked during the Democratic debate head over to the CNN's Facebook page or Instagram using the #demdebate -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, word that the Oregon college shooter attempted suicide while in the Army is raising new questions about his mental state and whether warning signs were missed. We're going to speak to an author who studies mass killings about how the families who have loved ones who commit these atrocities, how they cope.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Survivors and families of the nine victims of the Oregon campus massacre still asking why. We know that the gunman attempted suicide while he was in the Army. Were the warning signs missed by his family and friends?

I want to turn to Andrew Solomon. He's interviewed the families of mass shooters. He's the author of "Far From The Tree." Thank you, Mr. Solomon.

We're struggling to find answers here, but I think it's interesting the perspective you've gained from talking to the family members.

[07:45:07] You've sat down with the gunman in Sandy Hook's father. You spoke to one of the killers from Columbine's family members survivors. Did you see threads of similarity in what these families are dealing with?

I can only imagine the double amounts of pain losing their loved one, but also knowing that their child perpetrated such horrific violence.

ANDREW SOLOMON, AUTHOR, "FAR FROM THE TREE": That's exactly right. In these instances, the kids have committed suicide at the end of these horrific attacks and so the parents have lost a child.

But they've also everything they felt they knew about a child. One of the obligations of parenthood is to know your child and be able to help your child.

And what a lot of parents have described is enormous grief for the other people who have lost children. Enormous grief for those who have died, but also enormous grief and self-criticism that they didn't know and couldn't see and weren't aware of what was going to happen.

And yet over and over again, I found that these parents did not cause the problem and did not have the ability to know that this problem was out there.

PEREIRA: For example, you spoke to Peter Lanza, the father of the Sandy Hook shooter. I know he has struggled with understanding how it could have happened. He was mostly estranged from his son for the last two years before the killings.

Was there any sense at all -- I mean, this was a troubled kid. You talk about how troubled this child was, but did he know it was taking a turn for the worse?

SOLOMON: These kids in most instances are very secretive and there's a lot of rhetoric out there saying, we only need to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. Whatever the mental disorder or personal disorder or psychopathy is that drives this behavior we don't have a screening test for it.

We could pick up that people are suicidal and we could know that a certain proportion, especially disaffected young males who are suicidal will actually commit a murder/suicide and will be homicidal as well.

But we don't have screening instruments so in all of these instances the parents were very worried about their children. They were all engaged in helping their children. But the children had no evidence of what was going on.

When you look at how many parents are astonished when their kids, for example, come out of the closet, you realized that while don't like the idea of parents knowing their children. Adolescents who want to be secretive are able to keep a lot of secrets.

PEREIRA: Look, we all know there is probably secrets inside all of us as adults that our parents still don't about, but talk about that further challenge of, you know, for example, this gunman in Oregon, 26 years old. This is not a child. This is not even a teenager. This is a young man.

And if you have a child or an offspring that has some of these challenges and issues and is troubled, there is only so much parents can do, once they're an adult, correct?

SOLOMON: Well, you can restrict access to guns in so far as the guns are in your own house. PEREIRA: Correct.

SOLOMON: That's something that you can readily do. I think the difficulty is that often, you have some understanding that your child is suffering. In this instance, the child had an Asperger diagnosis and was having a rough time.

Often the diagnosis blinds you to the possibility that there are other problems too and you don't recognize that while you know what part of his problem is you don't know what all of his problem is.

The thing to do is have the most possible open lines of communication with your child and not to assume because he has one problem that he doesn't know another. Some autistic people are killers, most aren't. The autism is only a destruction in that conversation.

PEREIRA: Andrew Solomon, this is a great conversation for us to have. I appreciate you joining us today on NEW DAY.

SOLOMON: It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

PEREIRA: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Michaela, we'll have celebrity because the newest guys of late night, Trevor Noah and Stephen Colbert, they get our vote for political zingers. Don't miss their jabs at Jeb Bush and Ben Carson, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:12]

PEREIRA: Late night hosts taking merciless jabs at Republican hopefuls who have been described as less than energetic. Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, if you were sleeping -- pun intended -- here is what you missed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jeb, latest polls have him in fifth place at 8 percent, which means all he needs to win the nomination is for during the next debate the stage to collapse. The smart guys have Jeb as the odds on favorite by 2-1.

CARSON: I would not just stand there and let him shoot me. Guys, everybody attack him. He may shoot me, but he can't get us all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he's a little over inspiring how good his presence might be? You're going to shoot me? Guys, listen up. I need you all to rally behind my charismatic presence and charge with me into certain death. Who's with --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: He was good. Trevor Noah was very good. PEREIRA: It was fantastic.

CUOMO: You know that you have done something significant when you take Trump's spot in the late night line up as the target

CAMEROTA: I also like Steve Colbert's "Jeb" with the exclamation mark. It's so great.

CUOMO: So why are they making fun of him? Because Ben Carson is doubling down that's why. When this first happened he was talking about the Oregon shooting and saying, you know, there was a chance to clean it up.

But he doesn't want to clean it up. He says he means what he's saying and it is not an insult. We'll play it for you now that you've saw people mock it and you judge for yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:58:54]

CARSON: A shooter can only shoot one person at a time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ben Carson just can't seem to shake the firestorm he ignited.

CARSON: I would not just stand there and let him shoot me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking with President Obama opposing his signature trade agreement.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am not in favor of what I have learned about it.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I look forward to a vigorous debate on the most important issues facing the country.

CUOMO: Russia is stepping up its military campaign in Syria by land, sea and air.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forcing a U.S. plane to divert from a mission in Syria.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: There is no agreement with the Russians on how both countries pilots will operate in the skies.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, October 8th, 8:00 in the east. And Dr. Ben Carson is picking up a powerful new backer after his refusal to back pedal from his controversial comments about victims of the Oregon massacre. Carson claims everyone in that classroom should have rushed the shooter. CAMEROTA: The retired neurosurgeon keeps gaining momentum with Fox News owner, Rupert Murdoch, tweeting that Carson would be, quote, "a real black president." So there is a lot happening today on the campaign trail ahead of the big CNN debate next week.

We have it all covered for you. Let's begin with CNN's Athena Jones live from Des Moines, Iowa.