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House GOP in Chaos after McCarthy Quits Speaker's Race; Carson Defends Oregon Massacre Comments; NATO: 'Troubling Escalation' of Russian Activity in Syria; Report: New Clue Biden May Run for President. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 09, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congress in chaos.

[05:58:40] REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R), CALIFORNIA: I think I shocked some of you, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man expected to be the next speaker of the House drops out of the race.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the political Twilight Zone.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is not anything that I ever thought I was going to report to you.

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: Absolutely stunned. Did not see that coming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're very shocked.

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: My choice right now, Paul Ryan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he would be a consensus candidate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a hostage crisis within the Republican Party.

DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Many of the places where these mass shootings occur are gun-free zones.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: What is the point you're trying to make? If there had been guns in Germany, there might not have been a Holocaust?

CARSON: My point is...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The skies over Syria are extremely crowded indeed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At some point, the United States is going to have to decide, "What's our real goal here?"

(END VIDEOTAPE) ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and

Michaela Pereira.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Friday, October 9, 6 a.m. in the east. Chris and Michaela are off. There's only one man who can fill Michaela's shoes, and that's John Berman.

Up first, House Republicans looking for a new leader on the day they were supposed to coronate their candidate to be the next speaker. Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy drops the bombshell that he was dropping out of the race.

BERMAN: So Paul Ryan, if you're watching right now and have something to tell us, call.

It is the minority of the party in the House steering this ship right now, to the extent it's being steered at all.

Are there parallels this morning between the turmoil in the House and the rise of outsiders like Donald Trump and Ben Carson in the presidential race?

Let's begin our coverage with CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju, live on Capitol Hill. Manu, what's happening now?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, guys, Capitol Hill is still reeling after that stunner yesterday when Kevin McCarthy dropped out of the race to succeed John Boehner, throwing the GOP into a state of disarray and panic.

Now attention shifts to a crucial meeting later this morning, where House Republicans will privately press one influential Wisconsin Republican into taking the speaker's gavel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (voice-over): Paul Ryan, the man many Republicans see as the lone lawmaker who can get the House in order.

REP. CHARLIE DENT (R), PENNSYLVANIA: I know that there are a number of folks out there trying to encourage Paul Ryan to step up. And I think he would be a consensus candidate. Many members of my party, I believe, would warmly embrace him.

RAJU: Ryan, suddenly back in the spotlight after a chaotic day on Capitol Hill. Kevin McCarthy, the Republican frontrunner to replace John Boehner, abruptly pulled out of the speaker's race.

MCCARTHY: I don't want to go to the floor and win with 220 votes. I think the best thing for our party right now is that you have 247 votes on the floor. If we are going to be strong, we've got to be 100 percent united.

RAJU: McCarthy's move blindsiding his colleagues and leaving the fractured Republican Party in disarray. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of the way.

RAJU: With his budgets aimed at overhauling Medicare, Ryan has quickly become a favorite of the conservative wing of his party. But he's also a prolific fundraiser and close to the party establishment. He appears to have the job locked up, only if he wants it.

KING: Somebody in the leadership did tell me that -- that they are thinking more and more that Paul might say yes.

RAJU: Sources tell CNN that Ryan has not shut the door to the prospect, and he will listen to his colleagues' pitches at today's private GOP meeting. Leaving the Capitol Wednesday night, Ryan refused to rule out a speaker's run, telling CNN, "This is not the time or place to discuss it."

There are still two candidates in the speaker's race. If Ryan doesn't get in, the list of candidates is bound to grow. For now, Republicans are left grappling with a leadership vacuum, just as Congress is about to deal with major fiscal issues.

DENT: It's very easy to be against something. When you're in the majority and you've been given this great opportunity and responsibility to govern, you have to actually advance an agenda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: Now Ryan has long resisted efforts to jump into the speaker's race after he watched Boehner struggle to govern this unruly caucus and knowing that every word will be heavily scrutinized as Kevin McCarthy learned himself, after his comments suggesting that the Benghazi oversight committee was meant to the hurt Hillary Clinton -- guys.

CAMEROTA: Manu, stay with us. We're going to need your reporting here. We also want to bring in Ron Brownstein. He's our CNN senior political analyst and editorial director for "The National Journal." Also, Errol Louis, CNN political commentator and political anchor at New York one.

Errol, I'll start with you. Manu asked Kevin McCarthy the burning question. Was this Benghazi-related? And he said, "Well, that wasn't helpful." What's the back story here?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, for sure. I mean, look, he made these comments about how the Benghazi committee actually hurt Hillary Clinton's presidential chances. He made it sound in some ways as if that was kind of one of the main motives of at least the actions of the committee, if not its formation. And that blew up in their faces.

I mean, you know, a couple of news cycles, two or three days of really negative commentary, a new ad for Hillary Clinton. She's always best when she can counter-punch and say that "They're all out to get me." This was somebody who really didn't need to say anything like

that. It was sort of a throwaway comment. But if you're going to be the speaker of the House, if you're going to be third in line to become president of the United States in a crisis, you've got to be able to think a little better on your feet.

And so I think that sort of got the ball rolling. And then all of the other factors start coming in, and the politics went really sour for McCarthy.

BERMAN: Ron, this is a staggering power play here. This is 40 people who essentially didn't just push out Speaker John Boehner but now have prevented Kevin McCarthy from taking the seat.

I just want to show the numbers right now, because there are 247 Republicans in the House. Right? Of those 247 Republicans, there are 40 who are members of the so-called Freedom Caucus. That is the group that just has been standing firm and saying, "You know what? No way." "No way" on John Boehner and now "no way" on Kevin McCarthy.

Can 10 percent...

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BERMAN: ... of the House of Representatives continue to hold up, you know, the legislative, governing process of the United States?

BROWNSTEIN: Only if the -- kind of the governing conservative caucus, the mainstream conservative caucus, and the House Republicans let them. I mean, John, I think it's a really good point.

This is not personal, really, about Boehner or McCarthy. It's an extension of what we have been seeing on a number of issues, where you have a group of Republicans that are unwilling to go along with kind of the rudimentary tasks of governing.

And I think if you look at the big picture, we are seeing them take the House back to the condition it was in, really, from the 1930s to the 1980s, when you had a partisan majority but not an ideological majority.

[06:05:10] Essentially, the kind of governing conservatives among the Republicans are the largest single faction in the House. But they are not 218 votes anymore. You now have this kind of antagonistic militant conservative caucus that is the next faction, and you have Democratic factions of kind of the more liberal Democrats and the moderate Democrats.

People used to talk about four-party politics for decades in the House. No single faction could pass a bill. You had a bill coalition among them to pass a bill. Republicans have chosen to build their coalitions entirely within their own party. There is another choice.

The Republicans, who are now complaining that they're being held hostage, to some degree, they are hostages by their own choice and their decision not to try to work across party lines on some of these big issues.

CAMEROTA: So Manu, why aren't Jason Chaffetz and Daniel Webster getting more love? Why is everybody clamoring for Paul Ryan?

RAJU: Well, Daniel Webster really only appeals to that segment of Republicans that Ron was referring to. The hardline conservatives are getting behind him. And that's only about 40 votes. And you need 218 to be elected speaker. You need 125 to be nominated by your party.

Jason Chaffetz, I don't think everyone is around to him yet. He is not totally loved by the establishment wing or the conservative wing. While he does have support, it's not as deep as others are.

That's why Paul Ryan is really viewed as kind of that consensus candidate. You hear moderates. I quoted Charlie Dent in the that story. He was a -- he was a moderate. He -- he, who's supporting Paul Ryan. And you have conservatives who really love Paul Ryan, as well. He's a rare candidate who can do that.

And I talked to Republican officials yesterday, and they were saying he's the only candidate who can get more than 230 votes in the House to become speaker. So watch for that pressure really to intensify today, guys.

BERMAN: The irony is, he said no, no way, not once but twice. And he now -- the door may be opened, but Errol, the issue here is he doesn't want this job or didn't want it because of his life. He wants to have a life and raise the three kids. But more than that, he just doesn't want the hassle. And he wants to have a career going forward. There hasn't been a House speaker, you know, who left the post on his own terms in his own way since Tip O'Neill in 1986. I mean, it doesn't happen anymore.

It ends badly. And maybe Paul Ryan wants to be senator, wants to be president. He wants to succeed.

LOUIS; Well, it's a very good point. His personal politics, his personal ambition, on the other hand, this is somebody who can stand in the national spotlight. I mean, we watched him on the campaign trail when he ran in 2012. And he acquitted himself rather well. He seemed to be comfortable. He did so much press. He went to so many districts all over the country that he's actually, in some ways, the person who has the whole description, the whole job description there.

So he's probably going to have to sit with his advisers, maybe with his family and decide, I can be speaker of the House, do something for the country. And that's not a bad thing to do. You know, that's not nothing in politics. Or maybe sort of hold out and see if there's a Senate seat somewhere in his future.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Ron, you know, it's always fun to talk about the palace intrigue and to see all these inner workings. But it does matter to our viewers and to voters for some critical reasons.

Here's the schedule coming up and why this is so important and why it's not good for Congress...

BROWNSTEIN: Exactly.

CAMEROTA: ... to be in disarray. Here's what we're looking at. Nine days away until the highway trust fund returns out. Thirteen days away until the debt ceiling deadline. Twenty-five days until the federal budget expires. These are real issues that Congress needs to deal with.

BROWNSTEIN: Right. And it's not just whether the Lannisters or the Baratheons are in control at King's Landing. That's not what we're debating here.

Look, I think, you know, if Paul Ryan became speaker, it's not clear that anything would be different, unless he is able to get kind of hard and fast commitments from the conservative side, you know, the Freedom Caucus that they are willing to vote for reasonable packages that have the potential of passing the Senate and being signed by President Obama on those issues, nothing will be different.

And Ryan is not one to execute, I think, the radical strategy change or trying to build center-out coalitions that would include Democrats, as Charlie Dent talked about yesterday, to try to pass some of the stuff. That is what they have done in the past when their back was to the wall. On the fiscal cliff, on the debt ceiling. John Boehner reluctantly passed bills that many Republicans opposed and got to 218 with Democrats. That may be the condition they are in.

That was the condition the Democrats were in literally, you know, for decades, from the '30s to the '80s. It was not unusual to see that kind of cross-party, fore-party politics in the House. And as I said, I think we are drifting back. In this highly-polarized era, we are drifting back into that kind of Rubik's cube to pass legislation through the House, much less the Senate and get it to the president.

BERMAN: Manu, you know, Alisyn brought up palace intrigue right here. You know, and let's talk about what there are whispers of. Right now, there's a threatening letter really written by Representative Walter Jones, who we'll have on the show a little bit later right now, is saying, "I'm asking that any candidate withdraw himself from the leadership election if there are any misdeeds he has committed." Most difficult times have been when Republican leaders stepped down because of skeletons in their closets. Sort of a shot across the bow, raising the specter that, hey, maybe there's something going on here that no one's seeing.

[06:10:07] RAJU: Yes, and Walter Jones has been in Congress for 20 years. He's seen scandals really upset the Republican Party involving Newt Gingrich. He referenced also Bob Livingston. And what he said was that he did not want to see anything like that happen again. And he was not being specific. He did not single out Kevin McCarthy.

And McCarthy was asked about that letter yesterday, and he denied that it had anything to do with his decision to resign, but clearly, that raised a lot of questions. It got a lot of attention, and it also put, you know, especially given how surprising this was yesterday. Because Kevin McCarthy was campaigning for the job yesterday morning, just a couple hours later and said, "Hey, I'm not going to do it."

BERMAN: All right. Manu Raju, Errol, Ron Brownstein, thanks so much. You know, Ron made a "Game of Thrones" joke. Let's say this: winter came on Capitol Hill yesterday.

All right. Coming up in our next hour, we're going to speak to Congressman Trent Franks, a member of the conservative Freedom Caucus. Eight o'clock hour, Congressman Walter Jones, he's in the middle of this, too. He sent that letter we just mentioned ahead of that vote, saying that skeletons -- candidates with skeletons in their closet, they should get out of the leadership race.

CAMEROTA: Also, Republican presidential Ben Carson on the defensive about his recent comments that victims of the Oregon massacre should have taken on the gunman. And this morning, new questions about his suggestion that the Holocaust would have been, quote, "greatly diminished" if Jews were armed. Here's what he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARSON: What the original question was, was if you were there and someone was holding a gun to you and asking you about your religion and they shot other people, what would you do?

And knowing that you were next to be killed and that they were going to continue down the line killing people, I would much rather go down fighting. And if all of us attacked a shooter, the chances are very strong that not all of us would be killed. To me, that doesn't seem like a very controversial thing.

But when you take it out of context and you try to make it look like I'm criticizing the victims, that's when it becomes controversial.

BLITZER: One of the victims, a guy by the name of Matthew Downing, he was offended by your comments. He told CNN, "I'm fairly upset he" -- meaning you -- "he said that. Nobody could truly understand what actions they would take like that in a situation unless they lived it." You understand why he's worried, concerned, about what you said?

CARSON: I suspect he probably has had it fed to him by somebody who misconstrued it. And I think, if he had heard the complete explanation such as I gave, he would know that I'm not complaining about any of the victims; and he would know that I'm trying to plant the seed. Because this may not be the last time that this occurs. And if it occurs again, and there's a bunch of people, they might start thinking, "You know what? We're not going to just take this."

BLITZER: The other controversy you've erupted on this issue, is in your new book, is this, a reference to guns and Nazi Germany. You're familiar with this. I'll read a couple sentences from the

book: "German citizens were disarmed by their government in the late 1930s, and by the mid-1940s, Hitler's regime had mercilessly slaughtered six million Jews and numerous others whom they considered inferior. Through a combination of removing guns and disseminating deceitful propaganda, the Nazis were able to carry out their evil intentions with relatively little resistance."

So what is the -- what is the point you're trying to make: if there had been guns in Germany, there might not have been a Holocaust?

CARSON: My point is -- that was only one of the countries that I mentioned. There were a number of countries where tyranny reigned, and before it happened, they disarmed the people. That was the point.

Noah Webster said, when he was talking about tyranny, that the people in America would never suffer tyranny, because they are armed.

BLITZER: So -- but just clarify: If there had been no gun- control laws in Europe at that time, would six million Jews have been slaughtered?

CARSON: I think the likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed.

BLITZER: Should kindergarten teachers be armed?

CARSON: My point is that many of the places where these mass shootings occur are gun-free zones. So these people who are crazed but not so crazy as to go into a place where they're likely to get shot. They select these places, because they know that they're not going to meet resistance. So whether it's the kindergarten teacher who was well-trained or a retired policemen or someone who can stop the carnage, I think it makes a lot of sense.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: You know, the comments on Nazi Germany and the Jews, the Anti-defamation League has come out since those comments and said that Ben Carson's views are historically inaccurate.

CAMEROTA: Well, I had a chance to sit down yesterday with a group of New Hampshire Republican voters about what they think about his comments. And they do not find them insensitive. They don't even find them in politics. So in about half an hour, we're going to play for you -- there are not a lot of people who support that argument, but they'll play for you what the take is among a panel of voters. That should be interesting.

BERMAN: Really instructive.

[06:15:04] All right. We're going to move onto the crisis in Syria. NATO's chief warning of a troubling escalation in Russian military activity this morning. Two U.S. officials tell CNN that American military and intelligence assets believed that Russian missiles intended for Syria fell short, landing in Iran. Russia and Iran deny that story.

CNN senior international correspondent Arwa Damon is live in Istanbul with the very latest -- Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

And they're not just denying it. They are also saying that this is propaganda on the part of the Americans to try to somehow prove or perhaps, to a certain degree, show that this Russian military assault on Syria is somehow failing.

You also have NATO's secretary-general not only warning about the seriousness of the escalation of the crisis in Syria, also saying that NATO itself, because of these most recent Russian strikes, arguably, has doubled its rapid response force in the region.

But as Russia, NATO, the United States, the Assad regime, Iran, other key players continue to use this rhetoric about military strikes and strategic gains, what it really translates to on the ground is heartbreaking, devastating scenes of civilians again bearing the brunt of the violence.

The Syrian civil defense group, which is also known as the White Helmets, they're an independent volunteer medical organization. They are often first on site in the aftermath of these bombings. And they used to be dealing with the bombs being dropped by the Assad regime, indiscriminate barrel bombs.

Now they're dealing with the aftermath of the Russian strikes. And they are saying that at least 182 people, including two of their own, were killed between September 30 and October 7.

So what that war rhetoric looks like on the ground, Alisyn, is families being ripped apart. People being killed. It translates into a child, the image of a child that we saw in one of these YouTube videos, covered in blood, absolutely terrified, screaming out in pain and begging for his mother. That's what war looks like on the ground.

CAMEROTA: You always show us the real-life ramifications of all of these crises and the issues. Thank you so much for your reporting.

We have more breaking news to tell you about. This is the worst kind of breaking news that we have to report. CNN has confirmed a deadly shooting on an Arizona campus. One person is dead, at least three injured. This is in Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff. This school shooting happened in a dorm which houses some Greek organizations. These are the only details we have at the moment. We will bring you more on this breaking story as soon as more comes in.

BERMAN: The Tunisian National Dialogue Quartet, a coalition of civil society organizations, they were just awarded this year's Nobel Peace Prize. The quartet was recognized for its alternative peaceful political process in 2013 when Tunisia was on the brink of civil war.

CAMEROTA: Spencer Stone, of course, you'll remember him as one of the American heroes who thwarted that would-be terrorist attack on a train in France. He is in a California hospital this morning after being stabbed in a street fight. Surveillance video captured the fight, which police say started in a bar and spilled onto the street. Stone is the large man in the white shirt. He was stabbed three times. He is expected to fully recover, doctors say. And police are searching for these two suspects who were seen on the video fleeing in what's believed to be a Toyota Camry.

BERMAN: We're being overrun by big-time political news this morning. Just days before the big Democratic debate right here on CNN, new information about Joe Biden, possible clues that he could be setting up a presidential run. A meeting between people who work for Joe Biden and members of the DNC staff looking at the calendar, looking at rules. All the details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:23:02] BERMAN: The clock is ticking. Just four days now until the first Democratic debate right here on CNN. And this morning, a new wave of speculation for good reason about Vice President Joe Biden and what he is doing. Is he preparing this morning to get into this race?

The "New Yorker" reports that members of Biden's tell met with the Democratic National Committee to go over campaign rules. That's not something you sort of do. So is this, in fact, a sign he is closer to getting into the race?

Here this morning, CNN political reporter Sara Murray and CNN senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar.

Brianna, let me read you the quote from "The New Yorker" here, just so there's no mistaking. "They briefed Biden's aides," the DNC, "on arcane but crucial rules the president would need to understand if he decides to run. It was the most significant sign the source had seen to indicate Biden's intentions. 'I think it means he's running,' the source said." That from "The New York's" Ryan Lizza. Pretty telling, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is. And right now, everyone is trying to divine whether Joe Biden is going to run. So this is sort of another one of those data points. And this is a key one.

It is as perfunctory for someone who's weighing a candidacy to make sure that they have all their ducks in a row and to talk to the DNC. But at the same time, we're very close to where we would expect Joe Biden to make a decision. So this is something that is very significant, as Ryan is reporting that representatives of the vice president met this week with the DNC.

But what we also know, and this is what sources have told our Gloria Borger, is that there's going to be a family meeting this weekend, just around the corner here. And that could be conclusive on whether or not he's going to run. So we may know very soon.

CAMEROTA: I mean, "Look, I like going over arcane rules as much as the next girl."

KEILAR: Love it.

CAMEROTA: It sounds, Sara, as though something deeper is happening, and they are getting their ducks in a row. What is the deadline? Is there any sort of day by which he must decide?

[06:25:03] SARA MURRAY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think that that's what they were trying to figure out during this meeting.

I think, you know, it obviously matters that the meeting has taken place. That is a step that says he's seriously considering it.

But it also matters what they learned in the meeting. If they came away from this thinking that it would be extremely daunting to try to build an organization and to ensure that the sitting vice president is on the ballot in all of these states, that could be a part of the calculation here.

You can't come in late as the vice president and not have an organization that knows how to get you prepared, knows how to get you on the ballot, knows how to create a ground game in these states. And they're at a point now where they will have to do it very quickly. And they're, you know, trailing Hillary Clinton by a lot in that. So I'm sure that that's part of the calculation that came out of this meeting, as well.

BERMAN: So you can have this arcane meeting about rules and come out and say, "Nah, never mind, forget it."

Brianna, you know, you cover the Clinton campaign. I have to imagine that, in Brooklyn right now, they're watching this, just sort of mashing their teeth.

KEILAR: And there's a lot of concern. And you look at the polls, and you can see why. It's because, when you put Joe Biden into the equation asking likely voters, you know, "Who do you want?" Joe Biden is siphoning off more support from Hillary Clinton than Bernie Sanders. You take him out of the race here, and Hillary Clinton gets a more comfortable lead between her and Bernie Sanders.

So this is something of tremendous concern. They're trying to play it cool, saying you know, he's making his decision and that's really, I think, the vibe we're getting from Hillary Clinton. He's going to make his decision. It's not anything, really, to worry about at this point. But I think it is of tremendous concern to them.

CAMEROTA: Sara, let's talk about the other side of the aisle. Let's talk about Donald Trump. He held a campaign rally, I believe, in Vegas yesterday. And exhibit "A" of how much Hispanics love him, let's watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Where are you from? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm from Colombia!

TRUMP: Colombia!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald!

TRUMP: And is this a setup? Did I ever meet you before? Huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Hispanic, and I vote for Mr. Trump! We vote for Mr. Trump! Yes! Mr. Trump! We love you! We love you! All the way to the White House!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Problem solved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I swear to you, I think she's totally beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: This woman was very excited to meet Donald Trump as you can see there. And you know, look, the reality is, Trump has horrible poll numbers with anyone who is not white, basically. But there are still a couple, you know, Hispanic supporters you meet at these events. And many of them who came to the country legally.

And they say, "Look, I came through the correct channels, and we want everyone else to do the same thing." And so if you came to the country legally, you're Hispanic, there are certain people that Donald Trump speaks to.

I think Donald was particularly excited, because this woman had a copy of "People" magazine with his face on it. So it allowed him to sort of bring that on stage and talk a little bit more about his face on the cover of a magazine.

BERMAN: Sara, you've had the opportunity...

KEILAR: It's not often you see Donald Trump upstaged by someone. And he almost seemed like "Oh, my goodness, she's taking over the stage here."

BERMAN: I think what it makes it so interesting, Sara, and you've been to a lot of these events. I mean, you don't see that, I imagine, at a Mike Huckabee event. Or you don't see that with someone jumping up onstage with "People" magazine.

These -- these -- this is a -- there's a certain amount of entertainment in when you watch it on TV or when you go there, you just don't know what is going to happen. And that is what makes Donald Trump exciting to a lot of people.

MURRAY: That is absolutely true. And some of the people we talked to afterwards said, you know, they didn't hear anything new, but they were just there to see the show.

CAMEROTA: You can't argue with her exuberance. That goes a long way towards an entertaining moment.

But Brianna, one more thing. Donald Trump also has insinuated himself into the Kevin McCarthy speakership race. And Kevin McCarthy dropping out. In fact, Donald Trump took credit for it. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I want to just start by saying, you know, Kevin McCarthy is out. You know that, right? And they're giving me a lot of credit for that, because I said you need somebody very, very tough and very smart. Smart goes with tough, not just tough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Brianna, was this all about Donald Trump? Is that why Kevin McCarthy got out?

KEILAR: I would say no. And I would say that this sort of shake-up that we've seen in this leadership race in the Republican conference has been coming for a long time. The underlying cause of Kevin McCarthy not being able to get to 218 Republicans and to be able to clinch that speakership, which really seemed to contribute to his decision to bow out.

That's something that's been going on for a long time. It's ultimately what contributed to Speaker Boehner resigning. And so I think we're just seeing that play out even more. I don't know how much Donald Trump has to do with that.

BERMAN: Maybe not because of Donald Trump but perhaps emblematic of the same thing that made Donald Trump...

KEILAR: And that's a really good point. That's a really good point. That sort of his rise and the fact that he is getting so much interest and is the frontrunner right now is sort of a symptom of, really, what is the same, I think, condition, that Republicans are facing.

BERMAN: Brianna Keilar, Sara Murray, great to have you with us. Thank you so much.