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House GOP In Chaos After McCarthy Quits Speaker's Race; FBI Chief: We Followed ISIS Recruits "24/7" This Summer; Bill Cosby Faces Another Deposition Today; One Dead, Three Injured In Northern Arizona University Shooting. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 09, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We are following breaking news for you this morning. One person is dead following a shooting at the Northern Arizona University campus in Flagstaff, Arizona. Three other people are injured. So far, no word on who they are or their conditions.

Police say this incident happened outside a dormitory for students in the Greek system. This was at about 1:20 a.m. local time. The shooter is in custody. At this point, no motive has been given. We'll bring you more details when we have it.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: President Obama travels to Roseburg, Oregon today to meet with the families of the victims of last week's shooting at Umpqua Community College. Some locals plan to protest what they are calling an effort by the president to politicize the shooting. They think he is trying to advance anti-gun legislation which they strongly oppose.

CAMEROTA: Desperately seeking leadership. House Republicans in a mad political scramble following House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy's sudden withdrawal from the speaker's race.

McCarthy was the frontrunner to replace John Boehner, but says a, quote, "New face is needed to unite the fractured party." Many House Republicans pushing Congressman Paul Ryan to run. House GOP members will meet this morning to discuss how to fill that leadership void.

BERMAN: New warnings from the head of the FBI that ISIS recruiters are able to ensnare young Americans online mostly untraced by law enforcement. Director James Comey also said dozens and dozens of people in the United States were being tracked 24/7 because of their contact with ISIS.

Here to discuss, Phil Mudd is a CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official. Phil, you have actually testified to Congress in public and in private about ISIS recruitment in the United States.

So when you hear 24/7 surveillance on dozens of people in the United States, how big of a deal is that? How real is that?

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: That's a big deal, but I think that's a misleading characterization of what you can do against that many people. In the world of surveillance you have to think about two things, John.

The first is digital or electronic surveillance, following somebody's e-mail or cell phone. That's a lot easier than physical surveillance, putting somebody outside somebody's house, outside the place of business.

I suspect what the FBI director is referring to here is that the FBI and others are trying to watch people online to see who's communicating with ISIS, who is potentially trying to buy a plane ticket to Europe and Turkey to get into Syria.

Not sitting outside a 15-year-old's house. That is tremendously labor intensive and in some cases it's almost impossible to do because even a teenager will notice that somebody funny is sitting outside their house every day.

BERMAN: If they say they're watching dozens of dozens, does it worry you that there could be hundreds and hundreds of people out there?

MUDD: Sure. I think you have to think of this as a pyramid. At the top of the pyramid, you have ISIS using social media in ways al Qaeda never did.

[07:35:01] The reason ISIS is a much bigger threat partly is because if you look at the spokesperson for al Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri. That dude has got one foot in the crypt. He is about 75 years old and he looks worse than I do.

If you look at ISIS, they have people who speak British English, Canadian English, American English, tweeting online in ways that al Qaeda never did.

At the top of the pyramid you may have thousands of people following ISIS tweets. You have a few hundred who are really interested and maybe a few dozen preparing to travel.

That in the world of terrorism is a lot of people. In the al Qaeda days we might have had three or four people active in the U.S. who are really participating in al Qaeda operations. Now you have dozens or hundreds of ISIS because of the social media phenomenon.

BERMAN: It's a big difference because the bar has been lowered. The barriers to entry are so low. Listen to what the FBI director said about the youth factor right now and what some of these kids maybe looking for, what they may be attracted to. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: There are kids and adults, troubled people all over the United States. It seems to be drifting younger with more girls. By girls I mean women under the age of 18 with whom this message on social media is resonating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Praying on the vulnerable, Phil. It's something you see in crime. We've seen for generations in the issue of crime. Now, terrorism is seeping into this.

MUDD: I think you need to look at this not as a phenomenon of terrorism, but as a phenomenon of youth. For example, I live in Washington, D.C. How many people were recruited into gangs last night? We don't talk about this. That is almost a cult culture.

I see the same thing happening with ISIS. What's happening today is that youths are being given a message that there's a place they can live a better life. ISIS has safe haven. That's why operations in Syria are so important to disrupt that safe haven.

They can advertise there's a perfect state. Al Qaeda didn't have this. Al Qaeda was inaccessible in the western parts of Pakistan for the past 15 years. ISIS is accessible with an accessible message and with an entry point via Turkey that people can get to.

So I think that's why kids are more vulnerable. It's a place they can go. It's not just a terror group that decapitates people.

BERMAN: Phil, the FBI can't stop people from being young so there are limits to what the FBI can do here. So what kind of effort can help solve this problem?

MUDD: I think we're already the illusion and I include the Congress in this that we can stop this. There are things you can do in a margin. You can talk to communities about developing programs to talk to kids who are at risk.

You can participate in Twitter to talk to people who are watching feeds that are of concern. Let me give you a message. This is not subtle. We have stepped back from Syria. That's a political decision, a military decision.

If you don't stop the magnet of a state that is ISIS, that says there's a better way to live, you cannot stop numbers of people in a country, America of 330 million from traveling to Europe to join. If you don't stop the magnet, you're not going to stop the problem. It's not that complicated.

BERMAN: Sobering message. Phil Mudd, thanks so much for being with us, sir. Appreciate it -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, John, big news because Bill Cosby will be deposed today in relation to sexual abuse allegations dating back to 1974. What do the questions deposing him hope to find out today? We'll discuss all that, next.

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[07:42:17]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN: This is a situation that's unprecedented. I've never seen anything like this and reality is -- the situation. And I can't speak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, that was Bill Cosby speaking vaguely about the sexual assault allegations against him. The today the comedian will be deposed in a sex abuse case dating back to in 1974. Let's bring in attorney and radio personality, Mo Ivory, to talk all about this. Mo, great to see you this morning.

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY AND RADIO PERSONALITY: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about this case. This case involves a woman named Judy Huff. She was 15 years old in 1974. She said that she and a 16-year-old friend met Bill Cosby in a park. He invited them to a party at the Playboy mansion where he sexually assaulted them. How is she able to skirt the statute of limitations and bring this case from 1974?

IVORY: There is an exception for when you sort of begin to feel the damage of the -- the psychological effects of the assault. If it's within a certain period of time, three years, you can revive the case.

They allowed her to move forward with her civil case. Even though it's that old, the damage began to appear within that time period, so she was allowed to move forward with her civil case.

CAMEROTA: That's so interesting. So in other words, it took her decades to understand or sort of become conscious of the damage you're saying?

IVORY: Yes. And of course, probably the revelations of all these other women, you know, jogged her memory. She went through so much in her lifetime because of being abused sexually. And that now, she's really feeling the effects.

So she was able to -- it's really about convincing or presenting enough evidence to show that that is true, which is a high standard, but she was able to move forward with this deposition. It is a civil case. It's not criminal where he could face jail time or be prosecuted criminally but it is civil.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about that evidence because today, Bill Cosby gives his deposition in a courtroom. OK, next week, Judy Huff gives her deposition in a courtroom. We can assume she will say that he sexually assaulted her, and then he will say he did not.

I mean, this is how all of these cases. There have been more than 40 women. This is how all of this has played out through his lawyers. So where does that leave the case? How will a judge decide who's telling the truth?

IVORY: Well, you know, this is a deposition. First of all, it might not necessarily take place in a court. It could be in a conference room. It could be in an agreed upon place. A deposition is not the same as testifying in court, per se, for a criminal trial.

[07:45:02] It's a very much relaxed situation than it is when you're in a courtroom testifying on the record. There's where you begin to have also the considerations of whether or not it should be sealed and what information should come out.

So a deposition just by definition is very different than when you are testifying in a court, you know, for a criminal case or even when you're at the place of the civil case is happening and you're testifying in court for that.

Today is just the deposition where Gloria Allred -- that does not mean we should think of it as any less of a challenge for Mr. Cosby because it is definitely a problem that he finds himself there today.

It means that somebody was able, all the victims now, what the number is up to about 50 were able -- were not able to penetrate in the way that this particular accuser has been able to.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Back to my question, Mo, which is that it's still a he said-she said. That's all of these cases are because there is no physical evidence from decades ago. Who will decide who's telling the truth? What will happen this civil case?

IVORY: Well, ultimately what Gloria Allred and her client want is a settlement. The pressure will move to the next phase which will have the lawyers negotiating on whether Mr. Cosby said anything that could be incriminating or admitted to anything.

Let me say this. There's been a lot of time through all of these accusations for Mr. Cosby and his attorneys to really consider and decide what will be said in this deposition today.

It is not going to be an easy task for Miss Allred and Miss Judy Huff to come in and to think that Bill Cosby is just going to say, yes, I knew she was under age, yes, I took her without her consent to the Playboy mansion.

I fondled her and sexually abused her without her consent and gave her drugs. It's not going to be all that cut and dry. It is going to be a tug of war, a back and forth. Who knows what will be said or if Mr. Cosby will answer every question, I can't remember, I don't know. It was such a long time ago.

CAMEROTA: Right. We've heard him say things like that before and we understand the document from this deposition will be sealed for at least 60 days. We may know what he says come December. Mo Ivory, thanks so much for helping to explain what we'll be seeing today.

IVORY: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: In our next hour, we will speak with Barbara Bowman. She is one of Bill Cosby's accusers. What does she think will happen in his deposition today? BERMAN: late-night comics usually focus on presidential politics, because, frankly, there's a lot of material. Now, taking new swipes at the House speaker drama and if you had to sleep last night, first of all, good for you, but we'll have the best punch lines for you next.

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[07:51:50]

CAMEROTA: Politics is fertile ground, John, for community and it is even the GOP turmoil in Washington. Here is what you missed last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The race for president is really starting to get competitive here and Donald Trump recently said that he's actually getting ready to air his first campaign ads. Even the Geico lizard was like I think we already see enough of you on TV, mate. Give it a break for a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite claiming last week that he would have rushed the Oregon shooter to save live, Dr. Ben Carson yesterday recounted how he was once held up at gun point in a Popeye's Chicken and told the gunman, I believe you want the guy behind the counter. So we know at least one guy who's definitely not voting for Ben Carson. Why would you tell him that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Seth Meyers right there, very funny. All right, we are following breaking news this morning. A campus shooting in northern Arizona overnight, just a week after the massacre in Oregon, we have breaking news at the top of the hour.

CAMEROTA: Also a quick programming note, this Sunday on 9:00 p.m. on CNN's "PARTS UNKNOWN," Anthony Bourdain visits Okinawa. Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": It's been a week of madness between the sumo and karate, there's really no part of my body that doesn't hurt. On the other hand I've eaten really well and I've learned something. Okinawa is nothing like the Japan I know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happiness number one.

BOURDAIN: Happiness first.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

BOURDAIN: It's laid back. It's mellow. The food is completely different. People are expressive and open and tell you what they think. And what is the literal translation of that? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once we meet, we are family.

BOURDAIN: Once we meet we are family. Thank you. It is all very, very, very confusing. Also there's pork, delicious, delicious pork, and lots of it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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[07:58:15]

BERMAN: This is NEW DAY. We do have breaking news this morning. A campus shooting, another campus shooting, just a week after the massacre at the Oregon community college that left nine people dead.

CAMEROTA: This deadly shooting happening early this morning at Northern Arizona University back in Flagstaff. Let's begin coverage with CNN's Michelle Kosinski with all the breaking details. What have you learned?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: This is very different than what we saw in Oregon. This is not a shooter entering a classroom. This this is something that happened outside a dorm at 1:30 in the morning. But it did leave one person killed and others injured.

Here's what we know right now. Northern Arizona University, they just tweeted this alert with some new details, including the three people wounded who are now at the hospital.

The shooter is in custody and the campus is not currently on lockdown. No word yet on the condition, the identity of the victims or the shooter.

We know it happened outside of a residence hall called Mountain View at 1:20 in the morning local time. The dorm is described as housing most of the campus's Greek system. And there is also no word yet on a possible motive.

But we expect to know much more when the university holds a news conference about 6:00 a.m., about an hour from now and we also know the students have been on social media reaching out and comforting each other and some are trying to plan vigil for this morning also.

BERMAN: We do have a student with us on the phone right now from Northern Arizona University. Megan Ardol, a junior at the university. Megan, thanks so much for being with us. Your room just a few yards away from where this shooting took place overnight, how did you find out that something was going on?

MEGAN ARDOL, NORTHERN ARIZONA UNIVERSITY STUDENT (via telephone): I actually received a text message at like 3:00 from the university. We had like a text message alert system and it pretty much just stated there was a shooting.