Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Could Paris Attack Happen in the U.S.?; French Airstrikes Target ISIS Operations in Raqqa. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired November 16, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:24] MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Friday's attacks in Paris were not just horrific. They were coordinated and missed by French intelligence. It's raising questions to whether something like this could happen here in the U.S.

Juliette Kayyem joins us. She's a CNN national security analyst and former assistant secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

Juliette, obviously, a lot of people with heavy hearts, but also concerned about what we could potentially see here stateside. Based on your time with the Department of Homeland Security, what's your biggest concern right now?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, it will obviously be soft targets. This is clearly where ISIS is focusing. It is going to be any major event, any institution that has symbolic meaning.

But, you know, just quickly, we never talk about perfect security. Anyone in homeland security or emergency management, all we can do is try to minimize the risk and fortify the vulnerabilities. In a society like ours, you're never going to get fortress America. We're just too big, too vast, too much movement.

And so, what you just try to do is lower the risk and then fortify things like soft targets. The challenge in the United States, is, even if you fortify the soft targets, obviously, that just means that there'll be other soft targets that you didn't fortify.

PEREIRA: Well, it's a question of resources, too. I mean, how do you manage all of those soft targets in a place the size of America?

Let's talk about the FBI. We understand they're stepping up surveillance of known ISIS sympathizers stateside. They've announced this, the fact that they're even going to be doing some phone tapping. What's the benefit of publicly announcing something like that?

KAYYEM: That's the most remarkable thing of what happened yesterday, the FBI rarely announces a lot.

PEREIRA: Right.

KAYYEM: And they did that purposefully. The reason why is because there are so many people who are what I would say flirting with ISIS. They're online. They're figuring out what's going on. They're sort of intrigued by ISIS.

And I think what the FBI did was essentially said, this is no joke. We are serious. We are -- all of you who think that you might be interested, we are going to be watching. In that way, the FBI can focus their resources on the people that we're really worried about that are becoming radicalized online or leaving the country and getting trained.

So, this was a statement to the world, more than just we're going to increase this investigation. Them doing it publicly is quite unique.

PEREIRA: It certainly is. We know, we are learning information moment by moment. We know one of the terrorists arrived in Europe October 3rd amongst the refugees, the influx of people leaving war in Syria.

I'm curious about the concern here in the United States, the question of bringing Syrian refugees here. There are going to be a lot of people who will freak out and say, we can't get anybody in. How can we manage the humanitarian crisis but then also make sure those people are aptly screened?

KAYYEM: Yes. I mean, the irony is just a month ago, people were saying it's taking too long to bring in the refugees.

PEREIRA: Right.

KAYYEM: Because it's an 18 to 24-month process. People can debate this as a policy but just to talk about the substance and the process very quickly, it's very different than in Europe. We have a formalized process that goes through a resettlement office in the State Department. It then, making sure that the refugees satisfy legal status, it then goes to a certain very strong verification process, biometric information, interviews, health requirements, and then after that, there's all these organizations that are called resettlement organizations who seasonally have to vouch for the refugee, either their family members or others who know the refugees. So it's a longer process.

PEREIRA: Right.

KAYYEM: We're not talking about people are coming in tomorrow but in the next 18 to 24 months is essentially how long that process takes now.

PEREIRA: I reckon we'll be talking about this a lot more in the days and coming weeks. Juliette, thank you so much for joining us and giving us your analyst -- analysis and insight.

We're going to head back to Alisyn in Paris -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Michaela. Thanks so much for that.

As a result of the attacks here, the U.S. promising to accelerate efforts to wipe out ISIS. Russia says it's time to do the same thing. They say it's time to unite to defeat terror. We will speak to a French senator about the international cooperation and combating radicalization. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:38:05] CAMEROTA: Welcome back to a special edition of NEW DAY out of Paris.

And we are following breaking news out of Belgium for you. Police just wrapping up a raid in a neighborhood of Brussels. There were special operations forces out in force but they failed to apprehend Salah Abdeslam. That's the elusive eighth suspect in Friday's terror attack in Paris.

A hundred and four people now under house arrest, 23 people in custody. All sorts of equipment and weapons have been found as well. The French launching airstrikes also against ISIS positions in Raqqa, Syria, with the help of U.S. intelligence. And millions pausing across Europe at the top of the hour for a moment of silence to remember the victims of Friday's attack.

Now to Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The emotion is obvious, the pain is real. You hear sirens behind us. This is the new normal in Paris right now.

I'm joined by Senator Nathalie Goulet.

Thank you for being with us once again.

NATHALIE GOULET, FRENCH SENATOR: Thank you.

CUOMO: And, again, you know that the world is with you here right now. The deeper question for you is, what will be the new normal? You've been very outspoken about this. There's a unique balance of security and liberty in France. Is it time for a new normal in terms of the aggression and tactics against potential terror?

GOULET: Well, you know we have regulation enough to fight. We have strong will. I have no doubt about the will of the president, the prime minister and office of interior. What we need is a lot of money, more police, more intelligence, more cooperation. That's really the very necessary.

And then, we are now facing a state of emergency, as you know, and -- which is very unique in our life. We also will have election under a state of emergency.

[06:40:01] And that creates a lot of interrogation for us.

CUOMO: We're told that a state of emergency will last at least three months.

GOULET: After Christmas.

CUOMO: To take you through the holidays -- after Christmas. You haven't had one, as you mentioned, since the North African war here in this country. So, it is a new normal for people.

GOULET: Oh, yes.

CUOMO: But the question is, is it justified? Is it justified to extend even beyond that? First, let's talk about the risk. France is uniquely vulnerable by geography, by population and by disposition. We know that ISIS has named France as a main target. Why do you believe that there are so many more potential jihadists here than in other European countries?

GOULET: First, we have a lot of French foreign fighters and --

CUOMO: And why do you think?

GOULET: Well, because we have -- you know, we do not recognize communitarianism in this country. We have also this clerical, like (INAUDIBLE) regulation which means that we probably miss integration.

CUOMO: You missed integration? What does that mean?

GOULET: Yes, we mean integration of the part of the Muslim community. We missed that integration. So, a part of them do not recognize the French republic. There is a breach of cities and link.

You know, talking about redrawing the passport of the cities, but they don't care because they don't feel cities are that old. With French foreign fighters when they are back, they are trained, their mind is set to fight against our republic. So, it's very, very dangerous. You know, we have almost more than 7,000 people under surveillance for radicalization. It's a lot.

CUOMO: Now, you know members of your military and police forces believe they need more tools legally, that they want to be able to detain people more like what they did overnight here, taking 23 into custody, 104 under house arrest. They believe that the balance of security and liberty has to change.

Do you think there's the political will, even after what happened here recently, to change that?

GOULET: I think we have to be very careful, with a balance between security and liberty. What I think is that they need more money. They need more tools. That is for sure. But with the need, it's also more cooperation, and more understanding. You know, we need more staff. We cannot put somebody behind any people on the survey --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: It's too much.

GOULET: It's too much. We just cannot do that. But at the same time, what we miss is some tools for intelligence services. We need more databases. We need to be able to cross the data, which is forbidden.

But we never know -- we don't want any Guantanamo things. We don't want emergency regulation regarding the civil situation.

CUOMO: But every time something like this happens, and hopefully it's very rare, but as we all know, the practicality is it can happen, the needle moves a little bit and people become a little bit more aware.

GOULET: But, you know, I think it's one word that nobody pronounces right now, it's prevention. We also have to prevent, because you can't put any criminal regulation you want, with the money.

CUOMO: Yes.

GOULET: Let's say you have the money and regulation and staff enough. OK? Let's put that on the side.

If you don't solve the prevention, if you don't prevent the people to go on the verge of radicalization, it's not useful, because you will feed the connection. We will feed the network.

So, what we need absolutely is to prevent. We need to have a big cooperation with the Muslim community. They help the police, administration, civil servant to prevent the youth people to go on the verge of radicalization.

CUOMO: And that is much more difficult than even fighting against the actual terrorists.

(CROSSTALK)

GOULET: We also have to face that many governments, the last ten years have been cutting --

CUOMO: Right.

GOULET: -- the budget for army, for police, all the time, even Nicolas Sarkozy who is now yelling to have more budget and he was a first to cut it.

CUOMO: Right.

GOULET: So, we have to fix that situation and that will be solving one day.

CUOMO: Senator Nathalie Goulet --

GOULET: I did my best.

CUOMO: -- thank you for being with us. You did more than well enough. Thank you for being with us.

GOULET: OK, let's listen to the president.

CUOMO: Absolutely, we will.

President Hollande as the senator says is going to be speaking. And sure enough, France has made good on its threat to punish those who attack the French citizens. They are launching new airstrikes in Raqqa in Syria with U.S. support. We're going to talk in a moment with a former NATO supreme allied commander about how effective that air campaign was and what is to come next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:48:09] CAMEROTA: The French launching airstrikes against ISIS targets in Syria over the weekend. This, of course, in response to Friday's horrific terror attack in Paris.

What kind of response is needed now from the world?

Let's bring in former supreme allied commander at NATO, Admiral James Stavridis. He's also the dean for the Fletcher School at Tufts University.

Admiral, thanks so much for being here with us.

Do you have a sense of what the French air campaign against Raqqa has been thus far?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS, FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER AT NATO: I think it's symbolic and a start. It will certainly degrade and kind of push the Islamic State out of their planning mode and put them into crouching and survival mode. But there's a lot more to be done.

Perhaps the more significant strikes were the U.S. airstrikes against the oil trucks that are carrying fuel, which is the money for the Islamic state. We're going to need to go after both military and economic targets to really begin to choke off the Islamic State.

CAMEROTA: President Hollande, as you've heard, promised retaliation that will be merciless. What would that look like do you think, Admiral?

STAVRIDIS: I think what France should do is go to NATO and invoke what is called Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which states an attack on one nation is regarded as an attack on all nations. If they do that, that opens the door for a NATO campaign against the Islamic State. That would amp up significantly the level of strikes. It would include more special operations, more intelligence, more trainers, boots on the ground. Not 150,000 but say 15,000, to stiffen the land force, the Kurds, the Iraqi security forces.

[06:50:03] Over time, it would unlock the Turkish army, second largest in NATO, because we are going to have to do this ultimately on the ground in Syria, unfortunately.

CAMEROTA: And, Admiral, do you think NATO is prepared to offer a robust response like that?

STAVRIDIS: The jury is out. I think we'll know more over the next couple of weeks. I think a good analogue to look at is back in the mid-'90s in the Balkans where you did see an extremely robust NATO response that included 50,000, 60,000 troops into the Balkans.

And let's not forget as recently as two years ago, NATO had 140,000 troops in Afghanistan. So, the will could be there, we'll know more as the week goes on, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Admiral, you know, we've heard time and again that ISIS is about an ideology. You can't kill an ideology with bombs and bullets. Do you believe that?

STAVRIDIS: I think that there is a time for hard power and this is that time. We should not forget, Alisyn, there's a long game. That is integration, jobs, economics. All the things that integrate societies. But at this crucial moment -- and, of course, it's not just Paris, it's Beirut, it's the downing of the Russian airliner. It's a series of horrific beheadings, selling women and children into slavery.

Now, if there is ever a time for hard power, this is that time.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Admiral James Stavridis, thanks for your expertise. We appreciate having you on NEW DAY.

Well, President Obama said Friday that ISIS was contained, and hours later, terror rang out if you're in Paris.

We're talking to two prominent senators, John McCain and presidential candidate Lindsey Graham about what they say should be done to defeat the terror group.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Terror rocking Paris Friday night and it is a sad case of deja vu here. Because, of course, the "Charlie Hebdo" and the kosher supermarket attacks were just ten months ago, and Good Samaritans helped over a train massacre as you'll remember in August.

So, how are Parisians coping with the loss of life that we saw Friday and, of course, the renewed fear?

For answers, we turn to French journalist Stefan de Vries.

Stefan, thanks so much for being with us.

STEFAN DE VRIES, JOURNALIST: You're welcome.

CAMEROTA: Where were you Friday night?

DE VRIES: Friday night, I was actually at home. I received a phone call from a friend of mine. She was in one of the bars where there was a shooting. She said, there is shooting going on, bodies on the floor, what's happening?

At first, I thought it was a joke, but she's the not the type of person to make joke. So, I tried to find information. I started immediately, of course, to work as a journalist trying to get information.

And another friend of mine was in the Stade de France, the stadium where there were explosions. And he said he heard two bangs but nothing was going on in the stadium.

So, I started thinking maybe there's something going on seriously and I started working basically until this very moment.

[06:55:05] CUOMO: How do you feel about the level of recognition of the French public? You talked to the military, the authorities, they say this can happen. It's an every day reality. Does that translate to the citizenry and if so, what does that mean about the resolve to change things going forward?

DE VRIES: Well, two things. First of all, this attack is very different from the attacks that happened in January. In January, the terrorists targeted very specific targets like "Charlie Hebdo", the weekly, the kosher supermarket. These are all symbols of ideas of religion. So, these were targeted.

The people who -- the terrorists who did the attack on Friday, they targeted normal people. People who were having a beer on a very lovely night. People who are listening to music in the concert hall, people attending a football match.

So, they were trying to get to the heart of Paris, which is basically a city of fun. Instinctively, they killed -- they wounded over 500 people, over 100 died.

So this is completely different from the attacks in January. In January, the terrorist targeted the brains and now they targeted the hearts. That's a completely different ball game.

And I think the Parisians really realized that they, even if they have coffee on the terrace, which Parisians love to do, they can risk their lives, and that has changed really the attitude of the Parisians.

CAMEROTA: And what does that mean? What will that change beyond the attitude?

Right here, we see people out and about. Everyone has come here for the moment of silence. They're out here in solidarity. It doesn't seem as they they're cowed. But if the attitude changes, what does that mean to the city?

DE VRIES: Well, I think the people are really on the edge, because last night, I was trying to eat something in a bar just on the street over there. Within seconds, the bar was filled with tens and tens of people screaming hysterically. Before I knew I was on the floor with people on top or below me.

CAMEROTA: Because they thought they heard something.

DE VRIES: Yes, they thought they heard a gunshot which was a light bulb that burst and a police officer had drawn his gun. So, there was complete hysteria. It is very crowded here.

So, that shows people are on the edge. Of course, that's exactly what terrorists want. That's a worrying development.

CUOMO: There's also no push back against the state of emergency. We noticed that the president, the interior minister use legally operative language saying this is an act of war against Paris. That's not political hyperbole. It allows a state of emergency.

DE VRIES: Yes.

CUOMO: No push back. Hasn't been since the north African war here a state of emergency, do you think it will be OK to have it extended for three months as is being suggested?

DE VRIES: Well, I'm expressing myself as a citizen and not as a journalist. I think it's a very worrying development, because the state of emergency can only last 12 days. It's a very tough measure, especially in an open society like France.

Basically the government can seize the media, they can do any -- they can arrest anyone they like without a judge interfering. There are many, many measurements that don't have the place in society like this.

Twelve days because it's such heavy law basically. What is going to happen this afternoon in Paris, 4:00 Paris time, Francois Hollande is going to reunite the two assemblies, the senate and house of congress, only third time since 1848 that this happens. So, it shows the importance of this meeting. And there, he's going to ask for the extension of the state of emergency for three months and basically, in my humble opinion, means the end of democracy.

CUOMO: You think he gets it?

DE VRIES: I'm afraid so, yes. The worrisome thing is, the citizens think that's the right solution, we need more security in order to stay free. That's contradictory, it's not possible. If you look at what happened since January, hundreds and hundreds of millions of euros have been invested in France, in police forces, intelligence services.

A severe law has been voted, like a French version of the Patriot Act. There were no objections against it. So, in spite of all these measures, the horrible attacks happened again. The main issue here is the exchange of information. It's not tougher laws.

CAMEROTA: Stefan de Vries, thanks so much for being on NEW DAY. Best of luck. Stay safe.

DE VRIES: Thank you. You're welcome.

CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of news this morning. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had huge gunshots, glass coming through the window.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've seen 20 to 25 bodies lying on the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Across this country, police carried out a series of anti-terror raids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An arrest warrant for a man whose brother was one of the dead terrorists.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This could fight possibly be that eighth attacker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They believe that these attacks were planned in Syria.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: French fighter planes revving up engines, their target, ISIS outposts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This fight is getting closer and closer to the homeland.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been told flat out that they are here.

CUOMO: There's a moment of silence here and being reflected around the world.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not scared. I'm just shocked.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should go out and keep living.

(END VIDEOTAPE)