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Terror Plotter Killed in French Raid; Belgian Authorities Searching for Terrorist Suspects; Paris Terror Attacks Mastermind Killed in Raid. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 19, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR : This news just coming in from the French prosecutor. Lay it out for us, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Abdulhamid Abaaoud, the ringleader of the attacks here, or believed to be one of the ring leaders involved in the attacks in the police raid in the apartments of Saint-Denis, the prosecutor last night has said two people had died, one a female suicide bomber. The other body they had not been able to identify. They're gone into this apartment complex because they believed Abaaoud was there. The prosecutor's office has now confirmed that through forensic tests of the body in that extensively destroyed and blown up apartment building, the body they discovered there, the second body, was in fact Abaaoud.

They are saying, they're describing his body as having received multiple impacts. We talked about riddled with bullets earlier. The prosecutor's office is describing this as a body that has had multiple impacts, possibly as a result of himself trying to blow up an explosive vest, possibly as a result of the vest of the female suicide bomber, believed to be his cousin, who detonated her explosives at the beginning of that operation, and also possibly as a result of the multiple rounds of ammunition fired at this apartment. They were on the verge of going out on a significant operation in Paris. The police believe they got there just in time. Abaaoud's body now identified, multiple, multiple impacts, gunfire and explosion. This is how the prosecutor's office is clarifying what they are saying happened to him, Chris.

CUOMO: And, Nic, the French prime minister putting out a statement saying that he welcomes the death of this man. Whether he was blown up by his cousin, whether he blew himself up, whether he was shot up, any way you look at it he got to the same place. He's dead.

Let's discuss the implications with counterterrorism expert and former French Commando Fabrice Magnier. We also a CNN analyst Mr. Paul Cruickshank, and CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto. The importance, Jim, let's start there. Mastermind, I don't want to use that word. I think it's glorifying, but there is no question that he was essential to the planning. All authorities say that. So what does it mean now?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Planner, inspirer, organizer, all this important to the plan. We don't have to give him any sort of title. So this is helpful on a number of levels. One, it robs the group of this mysterious hero out there eluding authorities. He's dead. He's gone. You move on to the next one. That is important in this.

Two it gives you more comfort that you have put a circle around, a cordon around at least the cells who carried out this attack plus the support group and the planner. No one is resting easy at this point or saying the work is done, but it gives you more confidence that you have dug into this network, these bamboo shoots as Fabrice has been describing, those both very key.

But the other thing we know, and this to be clear, there are still dozens, hundreds, thousands out there that they have to track. The threat is still very real.

CUOMO: And Paul Cruickshank, this guy wasn't on any depth chart until this attack. Obviously made a miscalculation coming this close to where they were operating. What is the significance going forward?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN ANALYST: Well, here is the worry going forward is there were several brains behind this operation in Syria. He was part of a group. That is what officials tell me. They believe he was a part of a group of about a half dozen Belgian and French operatives who climbed up the hierarchy of ISIS, established a certain amount of status in the group.

He wasn't necessarily the most senior figure in that group. In fact he may have looked up to an individual still believed to be in Syria around Raqqa and who claimed responsibility for the attacks the day after the attack in an audio tape the group put out. They identified his voice.

He's also expected to be involved working with Abdelhamid Abaaoud in tandem in a series of plots over the last year against Europe, against France, including that train attack, a plot against a church as well. So the danger is still there. This group in Syria are trying to talent spot fresh recites that are coming in, persuade them to go back, give them one or two weeks of training and send them back to launch attacks. They want a high temp of attacks against Europe now.

And it's not just the French and the Belgians. The British recruits are being tasked to organize attacks in the U.K. The German recruits are being organized to launch attacks in Germany. So there is a lot of concern still moving forward.

CUOMO: It's interesting, in just four years, 2011 this guy was picked up for petty crime, for robbery, spent a little time in jail, and then he ascended to this kind of position of attacking humanity. Another significance to this, not just operational but also political. This shows that the French authorities can do it, that they can catch up to the threat, they can make progress, especially as this country is debating new powers. What will this mean?

[08:05:04] FABRICE MAGNIER, FORMER FRENCH COMMANDO: Of course that demonstrates to our citizens were very active, proactive and efficient when we start to chase terrorists, we chase bad guys, to understand the networks. We do it. So it is also a strong note to the terrorists. We are here, and what do you know? We are not doing anything up to this. We will continue our effort to stop you.

CUOMO: Now, is there a rebound effect? When you take out someone like this that matters to them, does that mean there may be a wave of new attacks, revenge? How do you balance that?

MAGNIER: A terrorist network can be compared to Greek mythology hydra.

CUOMO: First it was the bamboo shoots, but now you're going to the hydra. Why?

MAGNIER: Because the hydra has several heads. You cut one, others show up. So we know that in France for more than 20 years. So we had a victory today, but they will send more guys to take the leader. And if they are like those from Syria --

CUOMO: The network on the bottom is like the bamboo root system. It goes far, it goes wide, and then it pops up in these attacks. And the command and control is like the hydra. You cut off one head, you have the others.

SCIUTTO: We were in Iraq when Zarqawi was killed. This is 10 years ago, the head of Al Qaeda in Iraq which was the precursor to ISIS. Al Qaeda and Iraq reborn and now controls a significant part of Iraq in Syria. So you can cut those heads off. The sad thing is there are a lot of heads.

A couple other points, one about speed. Four years since the rise of this position. I spoke to the senior French security official earlier this week who said radicalization is moving so fast now that it could even be in one or two weeks. It used to take a few months of nurturing and this kind of thing. But with the way the internet works they will grab, and these guy will not necessarily rise to the level of leadership but to rise to a level where you make a decision to commit your life to terrorism.

CUOMO: Paul, one point of analysis here is this man obviously felt comfortable enough being in France that he could come here and do what he wanted to do. How much of the challenge is unique to this place, that this wouldn't have happened in Italy, this might not have happened in the United States? Is that true, and if so, why?

CRUICKSHANK: Would it have been easier for him to operate in Italy? They don't have the capabilities that the French do. And it's a stunning development. One of the most wanted men in the world, which he was after that plot in Belgium in January, managed to slip back into Europe, managed to come to Paris, was part of a likely two wave attack. And I think that this second wave that they are about to put into motion would have been more spectacular, more deadly than the first wave.

And of course the world's media was all in Paris, descended here. And so they would have got a huge amount of propaganda from a deadly second wave, an attack that would have seemed just moments away potentially from the weapons they had there from going into motion, very, very disturbing, indeed. Right now, ISIS is pushing down the accelerator full throttle in terms of launching attacks against Europe. They are going all out. And this is the richest terrorist group in history. They have these thousands, more than 6,000 western extremists have traveled there, recruits. They have these training camps. And now they have it seems the top leadership, Baghdadi and others just saying just go for it.

CUOMO: Making the war back in Syria that much more important, destroying them at their source of what they call their state. Does this make a third wave more or less likely, knowing that the planner is gone?

CRUICKSHANK: I don't think we can rule anything out this week. This was the most spectacular attack against the west since 9/11. It may not be over yet. The fact they have got Abaaoud now is very significant obviously because if he did manage to escape and got to together with a few other remaining plotters, you could have seen some form of extra attacks taking place. But there are still -- it's thought two people connected to this group are still at large, remember, last seen crossing into Belgium. They're not sure whether he got to Brussels or not. They don't know where he is now. There's a missing suicide vest. He may still have weapons. Very concerning, indeed.

CUOMO: Now, remember, this isn't just about military, political, and strategic. This is about the popular experience here in Paris. They were just attacked at the core of what matter in terms of life here. So let's go to Clarissa Ward, senior international correspondent. She's out there where the ring leader, this planner, was taken out in Wednesday's raid in Saint-Denis. What is the reaction of people there now? How much is this meaning?

CLARISSA WARD, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is interesting Chris. I've spoken to several people around this area, the apartment just behind me there where this raid took place.

[08:10:00] And there are sort of, certainly people say they are relieved they are glad this happened, that Abaaoud is dead, but there is also a sense of almost resignation here that these kind of attacks may continue to happen and particularly with attackers who come from neighborhoods like Saint-Denis, tough inner city neighborhoods, disaffected youth, people feel disenfranchised. Integration has not been done very successfully.

And one woman told me the municipality here has essentially been blinded for too long to the issue of radicalization in our community. She said Chris "They must open their eyes." And I do think it is worth highlighting that as much as this is a huge victory for France obviously today and for public perspective to feel that this has been done, that he was taken out, that he's no longer a threat, you know, there is also a sense from the PR point of view that from an ISIS perspective this plays out as a victory also for Abaaoud. Nobody watching, none of the long line of young men who are ready to carry out attacks like this within ISIS would find his death or his being killed a disincentive because for them this is about getting to paradise. This is about making their mark. So the PR victory here almost cuts both ways, Chris. And there is a sense in communities like Saint-Denis that this could potentially be just the tip of the iceberg, Chris.

CUOMO: Right. Someone's always more appealing as a figure for the brand though when they are alive. And certainly this man being taken out is going to have far-reaching implications. Clarissa, thank you very much.

Also important to note this man just like many others involved in this plot came from Belgium. Let's go there now, senior international correspondent Ivan Watson there. What is reverberating to where you are in Brussels on this news?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, we know that the Belgium police carried out at least a half dozen raids across the capital this morning. They detained at least one person, and they said they were targeting the family and entourage of one of the suicide bombers in the Paris attacks.

We do not know at this time if any of those raids came as a result of any intelligence that could have been gathered as a result of the raids in Saint-Denis. It is worth pointing out that I'm standing in the neighborhood that the family of Abdulhamid Abaaoud basically lived in. His father's shop was maybe 100 yards away from where I'm standing. He is perhaps Belgium's most notorious jihadi because he famously took his 13-year-old brother from this neighborhood to Syria to join the ranks of ISIS and in some ways has been described as a disgrace to his family. And his father since closed his shop here in this neighborhood.

The Belgian investigators, the Belgian government under pressure to show they will respond to the most recent threats. The government has pledged some 400 million euros and some much more tough measures in response to the fact that a number of Belgians were involved in this deadly attack in Paris, Chris.

CUOMO: And a good aspect coming out of this situation, if there is one, Ivan, is that we're hearing a lot better intelligence sharing and communication between Belgium and France. Hopefully that helps going forward. We'll check back with you.

And of course the threat not just about Europe. We're hearing about it also reverberating to the United States. Officials in New York City ramping up security. Why? ISIS released a new propaganda video threatening that city specifically. And there we find CNN's Boris Sanchez live in New York's Time Square with the very latest, that place always a target favorite for terrorists. Boris, what's the latest?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Always a target, Chris. We can tell you that that ISIS threat was implied in a video released yesterday. In the video a portion shows preparations for different kinds of terrorist attacks. In one portion you see someone prepping what appears to be a car bomb. In another piece you see someone working with a sniper rifle. And more importantly in another section of a video someone loads what appears to be a bomb inside a coat and then zips it up.

That part of the video is interspersed with footage from New York, from Time Square specifically. New York City officials tell us this is nothing new. Not only is Time Square a target. You can remember back in 2010 there was that Nissan Pathfinder, the failed detonated car bomb that was here. So threats against New York aren't new. But the video itself, New York City Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said, is recycled. We've seen the footage before in other ISIS videos.

So again, while there is vigilance out here, it's not exactly something that's new. We haven't seen really any expanded police presence other than what is typically here in Time Square. I can tell you on the side streets though on the way over there were several police cruisers that were parked.

[08:15:00] So obviously officers are focused on anything that might be out of place and ready to respond in case something happens, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Boris.

And the commissioner there, Bill Bratton, always a fan of saying that danger is real, fear is a choice and that the city will not be afraid no matter what the threat.

Fear took a big hit here in Paris this morning on word that the planner of the attacks here on Friday is now dead. This is news that matters not just to the French but also to the United States. We'll get the reaction from the White House next.

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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And we are following major breaking news out of Paris. The man who planned the Paris attacks is dead. He was killed in a police raid Wednesday right outside of Paris. Let's get reaction now from the White House with White House communications director Jen Psaki.

Jen, good morning.

JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Thank you so much for being here.

PSAKI: My pleasure.

CAMEROTA: I believe you are monitoring the same breaking news that we are.

What is the White House's response to the death of this terrorist?

PSAKI: We've seen the reports. We'll certainly let French authorities speak to the specifics but the French authorities should be applauded for their vigilance in going after the terrorists who have intended to do people and their country harm. And we've been working closely with them, as you know, and that will continue in the days and weeks ahead.

CAMEROTA: Jen, of course, there is the whack-a-mole theory, which is that taking out any one particular terrorist, even if they were the so-called mastermind --

[08:20:00]

CAMEROTA: -- doesn't matter because there is always somebody else to fill that role and that something bigger has to be done.

How does the White House feel about that?

PSAKI: Well, Alisyn, first, our intelligence authorities are certainly not treating what happened in Paris as a one-off. We need to remain vigilant. We need to take every threat seriously.

We work to coordinate with our counterparts around the world, including the French, including others in countries in the Middle East and throughout the world.

But this is something that, you know, we, every day, are tracking it and looking at every threat that's coming in from anyone who intends to do the American people or anyone in the world harm.

The fact is that we have had a strategy in place for over a year now to take on the threat of ISIL. The President of the United States has been leading a coalition of 65 countries.

But this isn't just about military might. This is also about taking on and destroying their materiel, whether that is men or whether that is supplies they have. And that is something we've been working closely with counterparts to do.

We also need to enable our partners, boost them up. That means training, equipping, that's something that we have increased in recent days. And we also need to work towards a political solution. We need to end the civil war in Syria and end the safe haven that ISIL has there if we want to make our country and the world safer.

CAMEROTA: Jen, all that sounds logical. But I don't have to tell you that it feels as though it is not working, particularly in a week where ISIS, it has been confirmed, was behind the Russian Metrojet going down, when ISIS is behind these Paris attacks, when ISIS is putting out a video, saying they're targeting Washington, D.C., and New York City.

It feels as though the heat hasn't been turned up enough. Let my play for you what a group of even some Democrats are saying about the administration's strategy.

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SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIF.: I've never been more concerned. I read the intelligence faithful fully. ISIL is not contained. ISIL is expanding. There's only one way we're going to diminish them and that is by taking them out.

REP. SETH MOULTON (D), MASS.: We need to have a comprehensive plan to defeat ISIS. I'm not confident that we that have right now.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D): The timetable is too long that ISIS will be allowed to maintain its space in Iraq and Syria from which it can plan and plot and resource attacks against Europe and the United States.

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CAMEROTA: So, Jen, you heard there, fellow Democrats saying not contained, no comprehensive plan, timeline not working.

So what is President Obama going to do to intensify the attacks?

PSAKI: Well, first, Alisyn, we're always looking at ways that we can adjust, intensify our efforts and do what is effective. That is an important component of this. This isn't just about bombing across Syria, Iraq and other countries. We need to have the intelligence to have the right targets and military might is not going to win this war or end this conflict.

We agree we need to take out ISIL leadership. That is why we've taken steps in recent weeks. We've gone after the leader in Libya. We went after Jihadi John. We're working to resupply Kurds, who have been very effective in fight back ISIL.

We've taken back 20-25 percent -- our partners on the ground have -- have worked to take back 20-25 percent of land. But this is not over, far from over. This is why we're working with our partners, the French, working with 65 countries around the world to take on this threat. And we're going to continue to intensify our efforts as are other countries because this threat is one that not just the American people but people around the world are concerned about.

CAMEROTA: But, Jen, let me just challenge something that you said.

Why wouldn't military might work?

Military might stamped out the ideology of Nazism. Military might, now that ISIS has crossed Russia by bringing down the Metrojet airliner, now that ISIS has crossed China by executing one of their hostages, why wouldn't the U.S. and China and Russia and France and Europe and military might stamp this out?

PSAKI: Well, Alisyn, ISIL's strength and ISIL's approach is different than what we've seen from terrorist organizations in the past. They are more diffuse. They're using social media. They are spread out in different parts of the world.

So it is not just military might. It is also about taking on, working with partners like Turkey to close off their border and make sure people are not crossing, who are intending to do harm.

It is also about taking out their supplies and making sure they don't have the financing and equipment to do harm.

It's also about going after them on social media. Taking one singular approach, even though the rhetoric may make people feel good, is not going to end this conflict. It is not going to end the threat of ISIL. That is why we need a comprehensive approach and that is what we're working with our partners around the world to do.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jen Psaki from the White House for us, thank you for being on NEW DAY.

PSAKI: Thank you, Alisyn. Great to be here.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

So much more of the breaking news ahead. We have coverage that the master mind --

[08:25:00]

CAMEROTA: -- of the Paris terror attacks is dead. We'll hear from French officials straight ahead. Stick around.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome once again to our viewers, in the United States and around the world. You are watching NEW DAY. We are following breaking news here in Paris.

The planner behind the Paris terror attacks, dead. French prosecutors say he was taken out in that massive operation in Saint-Denis yesterday. He's now been identified by forensics.

Also this morning, the French national assembly voting to extend the state of emergency for three months. This is huge here in Paris. This has been done a handful of times in the last several decades. It gives massive powers that are going to be controversial but not right now.

The key vote will be tomorrow. That's when the French Senate takes it up tomorrow and is expected to give this authority to the French president.

Now, the ISIS threat, despite recent events, still looms large, notably in New York City. Today after the terror group posted this video threatening an attack, we were told that the New York officials will boost their alert level there.

Let's bring in counterterrorism expert and former French commando, Fabrice Monier. We have CNN terrorism analyst Mr. Paul Cruickshank and CNN chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto. We're getting a lot of information here.