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War Against ISIS Test Of Diplomacy; Hollande And Cameron Discussing Terror Threats; Chicago Leaders Preparing For Unrest; Shooting Video Ordered To Be Released By Wednesday; Cardinals Pull Out Win Over Bengals; Adele Saves Thanksgiving On "SNL" Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 23, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Big development has implications for the U.S. as well. Prime Minister David Cameron of the U.K. will call his country to join the coalition, launching air strikes on ISIS. He's also proposing billions in new defense spending to do even more.

Cameron is meeting this morning with French President Francois Hollande in Paris. Hollande is going to fly to Washington to meet with President Obama.

Meanwhile, Paris and Brussels keeping major precautions in place at schools and public transit over concerns about more terror attacks. Belgium made 21 arrests in anti-terror raids overnight.

A global manhunt for the eighth Paris attacker is now entering its tenth day. One source says the suspect's movements seem to make no sense.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris, let's talk about all of this with Hillary Mann Leverett. She's worked with the State Department to negotiate with Iran and help facilitate the fight against the Taliban in Afghanistan. She is also the CEO of Stratega and a contributor for "The National Journal."

Hillary, great to see you this morning and get your expertise on all of this. We were just talking about what President Hollande of France is doing. He's trying to build this global alliance to fight ISIS.

Let me put up for you the schedule on the screen of what he's doing, to that end. Today he's meeting with the British Prime Minister David Cameron. Tomorrow he's flying to Washington, D.C. to meet with President Obama.

On Wednesday, he's back in Europe to meet with the German chancellor, Angela Merkel. On Thursday, he's going to Moscow to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Aren't all of these people, Hillary, already onboard? Why is he doing this sort of big sell to all of these leaders to fight ISIS?

HILLARY MANN LEVERETT, CEO, STRATEGA: They're onboard, but in a somewhat schizophrenic fashion. They're in a sense pursuing very different strategies in Syria. The United States and Russia were up until very recently were working at cross-purposes. Russia had offered to work with us on a military basis in Syria, and we said no thanks.

So I think what Hollande is trying to do is bring all of these leaders together with their enormous capacity to have a joint single strategy to prosecute this war against ISIS.

CAMEROTA: Hillary, is it fair to say to that all of these countries and all of these leaders have underestimated ISIS to some degree, and it was Paris that has galvanize everyone to come together?

LEVERETT: Well, I think the Russians have really been focused on this for a while. You know, they started their very intensive military campaign in August and they've been militarily backing the Syrian government against ISIS now for more than four years.

I think other key players in the region, especially Iran, has been very much aware of the threat ISIS has posed and has been one of the key players on the ground against ISIS in Syria. So there are some players from the beginning who have been very strong and opposed against ISIS.

We don't like them for other reasons, but I think what Paris has done in some ways educated us, that we have to work with people who are there, who have the capacity. Just as we worked with Stalin in World War II against the Nazis, we can work with Putin. We can work with the Iranians and I think Paris has showed us that.

CAMEROTA: Hillary, help me understand something. There are so many more of us than there are then. There are billions of people in the world who don't subscribe to the ISIS ideology. There are, what, tens of thousands of ISIS fighters, maybe 100,000 ISIS fighters. Why are they proving so difficult to fight?

LEVERETT: That is such a critically important question and I think it gets to the much larger pool that ISIS can draw from. The pool, I would cap wildly, not just the broader Muslim world of over a billion people, but even beyond that.

Those people that are extremely angry, frustrated and desperate about what they see as more than a decade of U.S.-led, western-led attacks, invasions and occupations of their countries that have led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria.

So these images of those Muslims that have been killed are broadcast nonstop on social media and that allows this greater pool of over a billion people to say, hey, we have to do something to build a pure Islamic caliphate that could protect the Muslim world against this continuous western onslaught.

Now we may not agree with that, but that's the perception, and the problem we have, this pool is real and it's not just in the Middle East. It's in France, in Europe, and all over the world, and people who are angry and frustrated about western policies and alienated themselves in their own domestic contacts, particularly in places like France and Belgium.

CAMEROTA: President Obama sounded a very confident note this weekend about the fight against ISIS. Let me play that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:35:00] BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're not afraid to not elevate them, to somehow buy into their fantasy that they're doing something important. They're a bunch of killers and we fight them and we beat them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Hillary, of course, President Obama has famously underestimated them in the past, calling them the JV. He said last Friday they were contained, a few hours later, the Paris tragedy happened so is he right to be as confident?

LEVERETT: I think he has proven -- he's proven to be mistaken repeatedly on this. Our policy, I think, is clearly a failure. And unfortunately, it was a predictable failure. You can't just kill, you know, one terrorist or one thug here and there and think that you've got a strategy, especially a winnable strategy.

You need a really serious military strategy that includes the forces on the ground including those loyal to President Assad's, 100,000 on the ground. You need to be able to hold your nose and work with Putin and others that are not our bestfriends.

We need a serious strategy and the president, unfortunately, has been reluctant to pursue that and instead has really dialed down the threat, leaving us all vulnerable.

CAMEROTA: Hillary Mann Leverett, always great to get your expertise. Thanks so much for being here.

LEVERETT: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn, Chicago gearing up for the potential protests ahead of the release of a video showing a white officer shooting a black teenager 16 times. We are going to discuss it with our experts.

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[07:40:33]

CUOMO: Chicago is facing potentially violent protests as video of a white officer gunning down a black teen is set to be released. That officer has not been fired and that is not sitting well with some. CNN's Ryan Young is live in Chicago with the latest developments -- Ryan.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, he's not been fired and he's not been charged just yet. The charges are still pending against this officer. But many people in the community are concerned about what this video will show.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG (voice-over): The video is said to be very disturbing. Police dash cam video showing 17-year-old Laquan McDonald being fatally shot 16 times by a white officer. It's ordered to be released to the public no later than Wednesday. Many who have already seen the footage from October of last year say it's tough to watch.

SHYRELL JOHNSON, LAQUAN MCDONALD'S UNCLE: Even when he was on the ground, the officer was still shooting him.

YOUNG: In October 2014, police were called to investigate a man with a knife trying to break into vehicles. Authorities say McDonald had a 4-inch knife and was acting erratically, slashing an officer's tire. Police say McDonald, who had PCP in his system, ignored officers to drop it. Officer Jason Van Dyke unloaded 16 rounds into his body.

MICHAEL ROBBINS, MCDONALD FAMILY ATTORNEY: There was a narrative that the police officer had to shoot him in self-defense, that he was approaching a police officer and lunged at a police officer with a knife, it was not true. He was shot while he was walking away.

YOUNG: The autopsy showed that some of the bullets entered his back. Officer Van Dyke says he shot McDonald in self-defense.

DANIEL HERBERT, OFFICER JASON VAN DYKE'S ATTORNEY: We're confident that my client's actions were not only lawful, but also within department policy and within his training.

YOUNG: Now the city of Chicago is bracing for the possibility that the video of McDonald's death will ignite violent protests. Activists are calling for calm.

WILLIAM CALLOWAY, ACTIVIST: We have the right, the first amendment right to assemble peacefully and express our grievances against our government and that's what we plan on doing.

YOUNG: In April, the city reached a $5 million settlement with the McDonald family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YOUNG: The victim's own mother says she does not want to see this video, but over the weekend, I can show you how seriously people are taking this. Over 200 community members got together to discuss what will happen when the video comes out. And community members, again, will meet this afternoon -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, we want to talk more about this, obviously, would be too painful for that mother to watch. We want to bring in CNN law enforcement analyst and retired NYPD detective, Harry Houck, and CNN political commentator and host of "BET News," Marc Lamont Hill. So the question of even whether to release this video, I have to ask, given the fact that it is Thanksgiving this week, there's going to be a lot of people offwork and away from home. Marc, do you think it's a smart move to release it this week?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the people have a right to know and the people need to know --

PEREIRA: Fair enough, but timing?

HILL: I mean, I'm not sure if there's ever a good timing for this.

PEREIRA: Fair.

HILL: Last year we were in Ferguson before Thanksgiving and people said, let's do it before Thanksgiving. People said, let's do it in the night, not in the morning. Every month, there was a reason to do it and not to do it. Ultimately, you have to release it and brace yourself for the fallout of something that could be very volatile.

PEREIRA: Brace yourself, indeed. We know people are obviously upset about the death of a 17-year-old. I want to play some sound, Harry, from a lawyer from the officer involved in this, Officer Jason Van Dyke.

Let me read it to you. "I can't speak to why the other officers didn't shoot, but I certainly can speak to why my client shot. It is he believed in is his heart of hearts that he was in fear for his life, that he was concerned about the lives of other police officers."

Harry, the fact is there were other officers on scene and none of them discharged their weapon. Is that not damning for Officer Van Dyke?

HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, I don't think so -- because the fact that this gentleman did have a knife in his hand. This could come down to experience. The fact is that apparently they followed this man for almost half a mile with a knife.

PEREIRA: Teenager.

HOUCK: A teenager can kill me just as dead as a 30-year-old. He had a knife in his hand and he was under the influence of PCP, which is a psychotic drug which makes you go crazy. I remember the days on the streets in Harlem when PCP was big. It was horrible out there.

Now, the fact is, when you're following this guy, all right, how long does it take for you to finally come to the understanding that if somebody walks in on that scene, some civilian walks out a door and he turns around and cuts and kills that person --

[07:45:07] PEREIRA: Well, you would set up a perimeter.

HOUCK: Right, but apparently you're following him half a mile later, it doesn't mean -- it still means, all right, the fact that if you set a perimeter, now he can come after a police officer and a civilian still might walk in on the scene. He was told several times to drop that weapon. He did not drop the weapon. So the police officer made the decision to shoot. Now, 16 times, I don't know about 16 times, right? I want to see the video, all right? We know he was shot in the back.

PEREIRA: Marc, jump in.

HILL: First, Harry raised the possibility that a civilian could have entered the scene and their life could be threatened. Under the circumstances where a civilian does enter the scene and there is the threat of a loss of life by virtue of that person having a knife, the police officer absolutely can shoot somebody.

But you can't shoot somebody for a hypothetical citizen who never entered the fray. You can have an imagery citizen. Let me finish. This is super important.

The other five officers were there and they didn't perceive the threat. The fact this this officer perceives the threat, even if he legitimately did, that doesn't give you the right to shoot someone in the back.

It doesn't give you the right to say someone was approaching you when in fact they were going the other way --

HOUCK: There's nothing saying you can't shoot anybody in the back, all right? This isn't the cowboy days --

HILL: That's not what I said, Harry.

HOUCK: If the officer perceives a threat for not only himself but other officers, he can fire. The fact is that this man had a weapon on him and the only maximum range, they should stay away from somebody is about 20 to 22 feet and you're deadly and you could kill me if you're closer than that.

PEREIRA: Here's my question for you. Can officers be wrong? Let me ask you this, for a reason. If there are five other officers who didn't feel that the threat was enough for them to discharge their weapon, this guy did. Could they be wrong? Sometimes we're wrong as humans. Our instinct can be wrong.

HOUCK: Listen, police officers can be wrong, yes. I've sat here and told you when police officers are in the wrong. The fact this this man followed every procedure in the book. This guy had a weapon, he was told to drop it. He didn't drop it and he was shot. We can't sit and let this go on for another mile, mile and a half until somebody is killed.

PEREIRA: Let me ask that question, why not? Police do have time on their side. You're calm. You're collected.

HOUCK: You never know. I don't know if all of a sudden I'm sitting there playing stupid, silly games, this guy comes here and kills an officer, when I could have shot him 5 minutes ago. It's not only the threat for officers but the threat for other civilians. They followed him for half a mile.

PEREIRA: I think that's the concern, the whole situation could have perhaps been de-escalated. We know that when somebody is on PCP, as you said, going to respond violently.

HOUCK: You ain't de-escalating a PCP person. It doesn't happen.

PEREIRA: So why not contain?

HOUCK: That's what they were trying to do, all right, but what are you supposed to do, surround me, right, but when I'm within 10, 15 feet of you, I can cut you. Police officers have been killed in the same incidence before, you know, in the past.

Police officers have learned from that. All right, and the fact is, a police officer, if you have a weapon, I tell you to drop it, and if you don't drop it, you're getting shot.

PEREIRA: But the question comes back to the fact that the five officers didn't shoot. Go ahead, Marc.

HILL: I'm not exactly sure of Harry's sense of distance. A 4-inch knife, 15 feet away, I'm not sure how you can cut someone particularly if you're running away from them.

HOUCK: Law of physics.

HILL: Harry, I don't need to be an expert to know that a knife this long can cut somebody from 15 feet away.

HOUCK: I can run at you and I can stab you.

PEREIRA: Let him finish, Harry.

HILL: My point is he was running the other way. I want to correct something you said earlier. I didn't say that the police cannot shoot someone in the back. That's my point. You have an extraordinary amount of insight into what the police officer was thinking and that the police officer didn't break any rules, although you haven't seen the video.

My claim isn't about what's on the video. My claim is that if an officer says one thing and then later on a video shows that the guy was running the other way that calls into question --

PEREIRA: Hopefully the video will answer a lot of questions. I'm going to have to leave it there. The thing I do want to leave you both with is that Chicago has, according to dnainfo.com, 419 murders. This is a city already besieged with violence. Something has to be done.

I want to have you both back so we can talk about that. This is the backdrop of all of this that's happening in Chicago, is a cold, hard fact. All right, Harry, Marc, you got my workout in today -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Michaela. On a much lighter note, singer, Adele, may save your Thanksgiving dinner. Stick around to find out what that means.

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[07:54:19]

CUOMO: If you went to bed early, you missed another fantastic finish in the NFL. That's football. Coy Wire has more on last night's nail biter in this morning's "Bleacher Report." What do you have, my brother?

COY WIRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, folks. I have some good stuff. We had a dual in the desert last night. The Cardinals and Bengals had a little bit of everything, impressive offense, dominant defense and a little controversy.

Late in the fourth, score tied at 31, Cincinnati's (inaudible) called for unsportsmanlike conduct. He was yelling fake calls to confuse the Cardinals as they were lining up to run play that would set up this, the game winning field goal.

Catanzaro with a 32-yarder, 2 seconds remaining, and look at him trying to dab like Cam Newton. Cardinals win 34-31 and move to 8-2. Speaking of Cam Newton, no drama for Newton and the Panthers, they keep smoking.

[07:55:10] Newton threw a career-high five touchdowns. The Panthers has moved to 10-0 routing the Red Skins 44-16. Water cooler knowledge, only 15 teams started at 10-0 in the last half century. Nine made it to the Super Bowl and six have won it all.

Now speaking of perfect in the NBA, Golden State looking good, looking great, now 15-0, tying the record for best start to an NBA season ever. Team work makes the dream work for the Warriors, five of them scored in double digits.

Drop the Nuggets, 118-105. Tomorrow against the Lakers, they can break that record. Chris, I'm sorry for your Jets. They got JJ Watted by the Texans 24-17. Tonight, my bills take on the Patriots in Monday night football action, guys.

PEREIRA: We'll have things to talk to you about.

WIRE: I would say something, but he could squash me.

PEREIRA: He could. Don't forget that.

CUOMO: He's better looking. Happy Thanksgiving, bud.

CAMEROTA: All true. Thanksgiving is days away. If you want to avoid controversial conversations, just turn up Adele. Watch how well it worked on "SNL."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am thankful that our governor isn't going to let the refugees in here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard the refugees are all ISIS in disguise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, that's true. I actually saw an ISIS today when I was picking up the yams.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you didn't, Aunt Cathy. That was an Asian woman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what, I have a question for you, why is it that your friends keep antagonizing the police?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would you ask my boyfriend that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm trying to get to know Jamal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a guest at our house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, it's me, I was wondering if after all these years you'd like to meet to go over everything, they say that time is supposed to heal you, but I ain't done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks, Adele.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: I wonder how many families will have Adele on standby on Thursday.

CUOMO: If only it was that simple.

CAMEROTA: Try it.

CUOMO: Nothing less than the power of Sergio Frankie to let that happen in my family.

PEREIRA: It's so good, even grandma gets into the action.

CUOMO: I like when men touch their mouths when they sing.

CAMEROTA: With their long fingernails.

CUOMO: Colored.

PEREIRA: That's a wrap for this hour. We have a whole lot of news to get to. Let's jump on it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Together, we will destroy this evil threat.

PEREIRA: International manhunt for that eighth Paris attacker intensifies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is still this threat here for the capital city of Belgium. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is going to be the standard to get that city up and running again if we don't catch the single person that they're looking for?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Off to Paris, the Sinai, in the cross hairs is here. We have heard distant thuds of what could have been two air strikes. From where we're standing, here is the Kurdish front line.

CUOMO: A third Islamist group is claiming responsibility for the attack on the hotel in the capital of Mali.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wrote an e-mail and said, I do believe there are shooters here. If I don't make it, I want you to know love you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, November 23rd, 8:00 in the east. Belgium is on lockdown, as the international man hunt for the eighth Paris attacker intensifies. At least 21 people arrested in anti-terror raids. Brussels under its higher terror alert level. There are warnings of an imminent attack.

CAMEROTA: Now British Prime Minister David Cameron devising a plan to wipe ISIS off the map. The French president travels to Washington tomorrow to meet with President Obama.

We have live coverage beginning with CNN's senior international correspondent, Frederik Pleitgen, live in Brussels with what's happening in that city -- Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. Yes, of course, last night, there were some major anti-terror raids that went on here in the Brussels area, but also in other places in Belgium, as well.

The federal prosecutor here in Belgium just came out a couple of minutes ago and announced that on top of the 16 people that they had originally said had been arrested, five additional people were taken into custody. So the total number is now at 21.

Now, of course, so far, they're saying that the man that everyone is looking for, Salah Abdelsalam who is, of course, apparently one of those who also attacked those various locations in Paris last week, is apparently not among those who were netted in those raids, but I want to give you --