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Turkey Shoots Down Russian Warplane in Its Airspace; Russia Reacts to Turkey's Claim; Authorities Find Suicide Vest in Paris Suburb; Hollande, Obama to Meet Today on ISIS; Interview with Belgian Ambassador Johan Verbeke. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired November 24, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:06]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: A Russian military jet shot down by Turkey near the Syrian border.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN ANCHOR: Claiming the plane violated Turkish airspace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were repeated warnings to this Russian warplane.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Worldwide travel alert warning all Americans of an increase terror threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's those soft targets where you don't expect it where you become that much more vulnerable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators discovered a possible vest with explosives in a trash can in Paris.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I saw people getting together celebrating as the World Trade Center was coming down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see that happening though on 9/11?

BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I saw the film of it, yes.

KOSIK: News organizations and government leaders call it false.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. You are watching NEW DAY.

We do have breaking news to begin this hour. Military officials in Turkey confirming that they have shot down a Russian military jet, claiming the plane was violating Turkish airspace and that Russian pilots were warned ten separate times to leave the area. Russia denying that claim, insisting their plane was flying over Syria when it was hit. NATO now preparing to hold an emergency meeting on this incident.

CUOMO: Now, this comes just hours before French President Hollande is set to meet with President Obama. And it's clear the agenda of that meeting just changed.

We have every angle on the war on ISIS covered, the way only CNN can. Let's begin with senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman live in Irbil, Iraq, with the late-breaking details. What do we know?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we know, Chris, is that at 9:24 local time, a Russian SU-24 warplane crashed just inside the Syrian border in Western Syria. Now, the Russians admit that this plane did go down. Now, they are suggesting that it was brought down perhaps by ground fire. But Turkish officials say that two Turkish F-16s intercepted this SU-24 as it entered Turkish airspace. They say they warned it ten times within five minutes to leave Turkish airspace and, when it didn't, they shot it down.

Now, the Russians insist that this plane never entered Turkish airspace, but we understand, we have seen from a path analysis map put out by the Turkish ministry of defense, that it does appear to have entered Turkish airspace.

Now we also saw video put out by rebels in Syria what appear to be two people, two parachutes, ejecting from that plane. Now, Syrian rebels have put out video of what appears to be a dead Russian pilot. The other pilot, his fate unknown. Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Ben, thank you so much for that. Meanwhile, the Kremlin calling the downing of their fighter jet a serious incident. For more reaction from the Russians to our breaking story, we turn to CNN senior international correspondent Matthew Chance who's live in Moscow. Matthew?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, thanks very much. The Russians are confirming a couple of aspects of that Turkish account. First of all, they are saying that the plane first of all was brought down. They're confirming that a Russian warplane, an SU-24 they said, has crashed inside Syria. They're also saying, this is Russian defense ministry, that two pilots apparently ejected themselves -- and there's video of that as Ben Wedeman was just mentioning of the pilots, the crew parachuting down to earth moments before the plane crashes into the ground in ball of fire.

But they're differing, the Russians are, with the Turkish account on two separate issues. First of all, and most importantly, they say that this plane was not in Turkish airspace. It was always inside Syrian airspace. So that's a point of contention between Russia and Turkey right now. The second issue is that they're saying it was brought down, this aircraft, by ground fire. Now the Turks say it was F-16 interceptors that launched missiles at the plane from the air obviously. The Russians are disputing that. And the Russians are stopping short at this point, for reasons known

only to them, of actually blaming the Turks for this. They're saying -- Kremlin saying it's too early at this stage to draw conclusions. At the moment, the Russian government appears to be in lockdown. The foreign ministry, the defense ministry, the Kremlin, none of them are talking to us at the moment. They're obviously preparing their statement, their position, to give to us in the minutes or in the hours ahead.

CUOMO: Very sensitive situation obviously. The Russia and -- Russia and the West both have concerns about ISIS and how to work together, so let's see how this is actually articulated and finished.

The Russian jet downed hours before this big meeting. What will the French president and American president do about it being shot down? Let's get the latest from White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski. They have to deal with this.

[07:05:01]

Russia was supposed to be a key infusion in the war against ISIS both by air and on the land. Now what?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, we'll see about that. I mean, as usual there are several different dynamic going on here at once. Today, the French president comes to the White House with a view of stepping up the fight against ISIS, improving France's national security. The White House plans to continue to support those efforts, back them up in whatever ways are possible. But what tangible developments will come out of this meeting? At this point the White House isn't saying. But both leaders are going to take questions in a press conference in just a few hours.

And what makes this even more interesting, of course, is the fact that President Hollande after this meeting will travel on to Moscow, meet with Russia's president Vladimir Putin. And already the Russians are framing that visit as a step toward a coalition against ISIS. Well, there's already a coalition against ISIS led by the United States. And the White House is saying this is not a competition, that it still welcomes Russia's contributions and cooperation in the fight against ISIS so long as Russia is going to target ISIS and not just prop up Syria's President Bashar al Assad.

In the meantime, the State Department has issued a global travel alert because of the possibility of more terrorists attacks that the State Department believes they will continue as more ISIS foreign fighters continue to go home from the battlefield. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Michelle, thanks for all of that. Also, investigators learning that terrorists who carried out the massacres in Paris conducted surveillance at some of their targets and had signs of military-style training. CNN's senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward is live in Paris for us. What have you learned, Clarissa?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. Well, that's right, U.S. intelligence officials saying that that cell phone that was found outside the Bataclan theater that was believed to belong to one of the attackers actually had a map of the theater, of the venue, on it. This indicating, officials say, that these men were well trained and that they had really paid some attention and done some surveillance on these targeted locations. Their words, they said that it indicated "tactical planning and military-style training."

Now the big development here in France overnight is that last night a suicide vest was found in a Paris suburb of Montrouge. That vest, according to our officials -- our affiliate BFN-TV, were packed with metal bolts and with TATP. That is the same explosive, that very crude explosive, that was used in all seven of the other vests that were worn by the attackers during the Paris attacks. And most interestingly we're hearing from French media that in fact the cell phone of Salah Abdeslam, the eighth attacker who is still on the loose, was used from that location, from Montrouge, just hours after the attack. That of course raising the question of whether that dumped suicide vest belonged to him. Chris?

CUOMO: Clarissa, thank you very much for the new reporting.

Let's bring back Jim Sciutto and bring in CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank. Jimmy, let's switch right now back to the plane for a second, OK? You have information that you can report to clarify the situation. What do we know?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIOANL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This just coming from a U.S. defense official saying that there were no U.S. forces involved in this. That's of course key because, keep in mind, Turkey is a NATO ally and you have express commitments between the U.S. and Turkey as a result of that, but making it clear no U.S. forces involved.

And there have been a lot of questions, as you know, Chris, with all of those U.S. warplanes flying over Syria and the Russian warplanes. They made a big effort at coordination so that they don't come into military contact with each other.

But it's interesting. I just want to read the first line of this statement because it struck me. It goes, "Our Turkish allies informed us that military aircraft shot down a Russian military aircraft near the Syrian border." Begins with phrase, "Our Turkish allies." A reminder right there the U.S. and Turkey are like this in NATO. And now you have them -- there are reports that maybe one of those pilots, those Russian pilots, is dead. This is an extremely serious incident in the skies over Syria. The repercussions, we're going to have to be watching this very closely today.

CUOMO: A quick follow, Jim. Is one of the things that progress has working for it in this situation is that Russia wants in on the war against ISIS now because of what happened in the Sinai peninsula with their plane, because of different optics that evolved within Russian politics? Do you think that could help the reckoning of what just happened? SCIUTTO: I think it can. Listen, the big picture here is, as you say

-- listen, Russia still wants to protect the regime of Bashar al Assad, but now they just had more than 200 people blown out of the sky by what all accounts, and U.S. intelligence officials shared their assessment, was an ISIS bomb. So Russia has to retaliate even just to satisfy its own population. So you're likely going to see them ,and we've seen that to some extent, have their strikes actually hit ISIS targets. What they've been claiming for some time when in reality the U.S. is saying they're hitting targets -- forces opposed to Bashar al Assad.

[07:10:03]

So now it becomes a two-pronged campaign for them. Those are two priorities. And it's a smart point, Chris, because they want in on ISIS. Do they blow up as much as they might otherwise? But listen, you have the possibility of a Russian pilot dead here by Turkey, a NATO ally. It's hard for that to disappear very quickly as an issue.

CUOMO: Well, it doesn't look good because it isn't good. Turkey just released the flight plan showing that, to their reckoning, the jet was over their airspace. But it still takes you to the political conclusion that they decided to shoot down a plane just because it was in their airspace when you're supposed to be coming together in the war against ISIS, so the politics is going to be a sticky wicket, to be sure.

Jimmy, thank you very much. Paul Cruickshank, let's shift now to the threat and do a gut check. A big question is, well, how do we know that what happened in Paris couldn't happen right here in New York City? Isn't the best, most honest answer -- it could. It is a wonder that it has not. Experts feel that it's inevitable. It's about when and not if.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: New York City is a top target for ISIS. There's no doubt about that whatsoever. And I think their best chance of launching an attack here is to recruit European extremists, train them in Syria, send them back from Europe on planes to the United States.

We know that several of the attackers were not on watch lists in the Paris attack on Friday the 13th. Some of those people could have come to the United States, could have bought powerful weapons completely legally here in the United States, and gone forward and launched an attack. They could have constructed TATP explosives here. We've seen other plotters linked to al Qaeda do that in the United States. You can buy them from everyday stores.

CUOMO: Well aware, and there's a robust black market as well.

But this puffery about this guy being the mastermind. One of the reasons we push back on that is that, from counsel of yours and others, this is not that sophisticated. This is not so hard to plan, what this guy did. You don't have to be a military genius to do this. And that makes it even more likely, right? SCIUTTO: Yes, what we're seeing increasingly from ISIS in Syria is

terror by remote control ,that they're communicating with operatives that they're sending back by encrypted online apps. And they're holding hand every step of the way in launching in terrorism attacks.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Including that cell phone that we just heard that the eighth attacker may have used right after the event, showing that connectivity with whoever was giving them their instructions.

SCIUTTO: Well, that's right. There's the concern, that these guys were in touch with a whole network in Syria. And, in fact, they now believe that the senior ring leader in this, (INAUDIBLE), still at large, still in Syria, he's the guy that claimed this attack on behalf of ISIS the next morning.

CUOMO: Because, Jim, you know why we're having this discussion. There's a feeling, there's a temptation to tell people it won't happen here. We don't have the social fractures that they're dealing with in and around Paris and France between the Muslim community and everybody else and the radicalization versus normalcy, but a little bit of that is BS, isn't it? Because, I mean, we have real threats here and there's only so much you can protect against.

SCIUTTO: We do. I guess the best advice, because, like you, I'm sure, friends are asking all the time, hey, should I go to this event? Should I go to Paris? Should I go to the Thanksgiving Day parade? One thing we know is that the scale of the problem in the U.S. is not the same as the scale of the problem in Europe. Just the number of suspected jihadis a factor of ten, or even a factor of a hundred, greater in a country like France than you have in the U.S.

That said, we know the U.S. is the No. 1 target of these groups. They just get greater impact for it when you hit the U.S., when you hi the world's superpower. We also know that the FBI has dozens of investigations under way for ISIS-tied individuals here in the U.S., some 900, one in every single U.S. state. So we know that people who sympathize with this kind of thinking are present here. Not the same scale of the threat, but very possible, and that's why you have folks like Mayor de Blasio, just talking there, they take this threat very seriously. They throw a lot of resources at it, counterterrorism resources, surveillance resources. It's real but it's not the same as you see in Europe.

CUOMO: Jim Sciutto, thank you very much. Last word, Paul Cruickshank?

CRUICKSHANK: ISIS is the richest group, terrorist group, in history. It's got extraordinary resources, it's got all these western recruits. If it puts its priority on launching attacks against the United States, and I think that is of real significant concern.

CUOMO: And as you say and Jim often says, they only got to get lucky once. You got to stop all of them in order for there to be no attacks at all. Paul Cruickshank, thank you very much. If I don't see you, have a very Happy Thanksgiving. Jim, you the same.

Michaela?

PEREIRA: Turning to politics now. Brand new Iowa poll numbers just in to CNN, showing quite a shift in the 2016 GOP race. Ben Carson tumbling from first place just last month to third, dropping from 28 to 18 percent. You can see Donald trump back on top, getting five points in the past month. Ted Cruz getting a surge of support. He's gained 13 points and is now within the margin of error of first place. A reminder, the Iowa caucuses are less than ten weeks away.

[07:15:04]

CAMEROTA: Planned Parenthood is suing the State of Texas. The organization trying to block Texas from cutting off its Medicaid funding. This follows Planned Parenthood filing similar suits against Utah, Alabama, Arkansas, and Louisiana. Texas plans to cut off Medicaid funding for the nonprofit organization in two weeks, citing the controversial claims of sale of fetal tissue for research.

CUOMO: A security mishap at JFK Airport here in New York. American Airlines said 13 passengers who just arrived from Cancun, Mexico, somehow skipped customs and security without getting their bags or passports checked. The airline says the passengers were sent to the domestic terminal by mistake, but that most were called back for screening. All are reportedly U.S. citizens.

CAMEROTA: I don't get it. How do you skip going through security? How -- what's that path?

PEREIRA: Well, you've come back from anywhere. I can see how this might happen. Because oftentimes they'll have one of those retractable blockers, and it will be not in the right place and someone will come along and say actually we're going to guide you this way. It can be a bit chaotic. I've been -- trust me, I come back and forth through many countries many times. And it feels that those mistakes could happen maybe more than we would like them to.

CAMEROTA: The Senor Frogs t-shirts they were wearing from Cancun tipped that something had gone wrong.

PEREIRA: Coconut butter.

CUOMO: I think that the problem here is the airlines are quick to get in front of a story and blunt it instead of owning it and making the changes they need to make. This isn't about American Airlines --

PEREIRA: But I don't know, is this the airline or is this about --

CUOMO: No, look, they work together. The TSA, they work hand in hand. TSA is obviously responsible. In these situations, you need accountability and change, not explanations that make it sound (INAUDIBLE).

PEREIRA: Gotta fix that and quickly.

CAMEROTA: All right, meanwhile today Brussels remains on lockdown over the terror concerns in the wake of the Paris attacks. Is this our new normal? And why has Belgium become such a hotbed of terrorism? Belgium's ambassador joins us next.

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[07:20:57]

CAMEROTA: The Belgian capital of Brussels remains on lockdown this morning as authorities arrest a new suspect in connection to the Paris attacks. But after more than 20 raids, there is still no sign of Europe's most wanted man, the so-called eighth attacker, Salah Abdelslam.

Let's bring in the Belgian ambassador to the United States, Johan Verbeke. Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for being on NEW DAY. What is --

JOHAN VERBEKE, BELGIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Explain what we're seeing happen in Brussels today. The subways are closed. Schools are shut down for yet a second day. Why is that city going to such lengths?

VERBEKE: Well, we fully understand that these are rather drastic measures but they are proportional to the threat that currently is there in Belgium. And, as you know, the threat level has been increased last week from Level No. 3 to Level No. 4, Level No. 4 being the highest one, which means that there is serious threat and imminent threat.

So that is the situation. The government yesterday decided to extend that Level Four threat for another week, until Monday next week. Although, of course, in the meantime, that can be revisited in the context of new information being available.

CAMEROTA: But -- meaning that schools and the public transit will be shut down all week?

VERBEKE: No. That's exactly the point I was going to make. The schools, the metro, shopping areas and so have been closed during the week and yesterday and perhaps today to some extent. But as of tomorrow, things will be relaxed in terms of the schools can open, the metro selectively, no just all the metro, but selectively will be opening that as well so that normal life can start again. Which doesn't mean that normality has come to Belgium, but at least it means that economic life, social life, can start again.

CAMEROTA: We're looking at the images of what people, regular citizens in Brussels, are confronting today. I mean, all of these men just in SWAT gear, in camouflage, fatigues. I mean, this is -- it's hard to accept if this would be the new normal.

And yet, Mr. Ambassador, when we were reporting in Paris, we heard over and over again from experts that, yes, France has a problem with extremism, but an even bigger, exponentially greater, problem is in Belgium. How did Belgium and Brussels become such a hotbed of extremism?

VERBEKE: Well, just when you see the street pictures, that is simply commensurate to the problem that we currently face, and the problem is real. As you know, our prime minister has given some indications about the fact that perhaps there was a first terrorist group working in Paris -- and these are the dramatic events of 13th November. A second group most probably was dismantled in Saint-Denis, and that was also the basis of information that we could share with our French colleagues. And the third, apparently a third cell, a third group, was in the offing, in the process of preparing something in Brussels. So that is why the measures are so drastic.

Now, on your question is Belgian a specific case? Well, I would say that Belgium and France have a very similar profile in terms of exposure to terrorist threats. I would say that is that we have communities, large communities, that have been perhaps somewhat more friendly, more receptive to terrorist threat -- although I hasten to say that on further analysis we come to the conclusion that it is not the community at large, the Muslim community at large, that is at stake here, but that most often it is specific individuals who have been seduced, if I may say so, by the very strong narrative of the jihadis over there in Syria. So it's very much individual.

[07:25:03]

And let me just give you one example. One of the cases we are very much looking at is that of Salah Abdeslam. Well, Salah Abdeslam comes from a totally normal family. As a matter of fact, he has a brother who appears before Belgian television almost on a daily basis calling upon his brother to give him over to the police and the judicial authorities. He is a couraged (ph) guy, he's a normal person. He's a Belgium citizen.

CAMEROTA: This is what makes it all so challenging and so troubling to try to figure out how to stop this. Ambassador Johan Verbeke, thanks so much for your time this morning.

VERBEKE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, it's become a metaphor moment in the campaign. Were all of these Arabs or Muslims or both celebrating in New Jersey as the towers fell in 9/11? A horrible image. Nobody would want to remember it; certainly nobody would want to remember it wrongly. Donald Trump is making a lot of advantage out of butting heads with the media and critics who say he's got it wrong. We're going to take it through with a member of Team Trump next on NEW DAY.

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