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New Day

Egyptian Air Plane Hijacked; Republican Presidential Candidates Campaign in Wisconsin; Manhunt Intensifies for Brussels Terror Suspects; Trump-Cruz Campaign Feud Escalates. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 29, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:03] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. Chris is off this morning. Don Lemon joins us. We have had a lot of breaking news and we have an update for you this hour about the Egypt air flight that was hijacked and diverted to Cypress. The cypress ministry of foreign affairs says that hijacker is now under arrest. This comes moments after we saw these dramatic pictures of the final hostages leaving the plane as you can see on your screen.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And Alisyn, the hijacker claimed to have p an explosive belt. Commandeered the plan with more than 80 passengers and crew on board apparently over an issue with his ex-wife. So the standoff is over but the incident reigniting questions about airport security overseas. We're going to begin our international coverage with CNN's Ian Lee joining us now live from Cairo. Ian, you watched all of this unfold, people leaving the plane. Now they are saying the man is in custody. What is the latest?

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, really dramatic video coming out of the final moments of this operation. At one point you have a person leaving the cockpit window of the airplane. The security forces were able to arrest the hijacker. We do not know the state of the passengers and the crew members, if there was any injuries. But we are looking hopefully soon to get an update on their status although it doesn't look like at this point that any of them have any major injuries or if there was any sort of incidents like that.

But security officials ending this hours-long hostage situation the best way possible, to arrest this person. Now they will be able to figure out if in fact he actually did have an explosive device, also to figure out what were the motivations behind this. As you said, as we've been hearing that this could have something to do with an ex- wife. Talking to a passenger who was on the plane at the time, she said that at no point did the hijacker say why he was taking over the plane. He collected the passports of all the passengers. When the plane landed, he ordered off the women and children as well as, and then later expanded it to all Egyptians.

But a very tense situation as you can imagine. Being on a hijacked airplane not knowing their fate, as a lot of times these days these sorts of situations do not end this well where you do have the suspect arrested. And for the most part it looks like everyone has been able to escape.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. And this is the best possible outcome officials and all of us could have ever hoped for.

Joining us now, we want to bring in David Soucie. He's our CNN aviation analyst and former FAA accident investigator and inspector. John Gilliam has been on set guiding through what's going on here. He's our CNN law enforcement analyst, former FBI special agent and former air marshal. And Mary Schiavo, she's our CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.

Mary, I want to start with you. You have been watching this unfold. It has had a good outcome we are happy to report. However, just terrifying moments for the passengers on board for the past few hours.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, absolutely. But the most important things and what pilots are taught and certainly in the United States the protocol is to get the plane on the ground and keep the plane on the ground, which is apparently what occurred. Once they get it on the ground they want to do everything they can to avoid taking it off again.

And we saw a lot of footage of someone leaving the cockpit. I don't think that is the pilot, my personal opinion. You couldn't see who it was but it might have been somebody else because the pilots want to keep there, keep talking to this person. And at this point we don't know if it was a security breech or not because we don't know if he had any explosives or not. So that will remain to been seen if there are more security breaches. But it absolutely does appear what they needed to do in a hijacking, which is keep it on the ground and keep him talking.

CAMEROTA: Jonathan, what was your impression of the person we just saw on video scaling almost Spiderman like down the side of that plane. It looked like somebody who knew what they were doing, knew where there were handholds on the side of that plane.

JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Which the crew is trained in that escape procedure. So it could have been a pilot. My thinking was if the other people had gotten off the plane, if I was the captain of that plane I'd want to be the last person off. So I'm not sure. Either way it was one of the crew members but.

But I'll tell you one things that's interesting is we're sitting there talking about this off camera about the way the Egyptians are kind of saying things that to me aren't necessarily adding up. But you all, I'm trained --

CAMEROTA: Such as?

GILLIAM: Well, you know, the thing with the passports. The fact that some t of the people that have been interviewed that got off the plane said they never heard him say anything about a wife. That is not to say he didn't say that to the crew. But what's interesting to me is how the general public has changed. I'm trained in terrorism and have been a SEAL and FBI agent. But I'm sitting here with three anchors from a show that are thinking exactly like me. And that is the way the psyche of the world has changed. And 15, 20 years ago everybody would be sitting here just saying, oh, well it is probably just some guy who wants to go home to his wife.

[08:05:11] CAMEROTA: And David Soucie, the training of the flight attendants has changed as well. They are no longer just giving out your sodas during the flight. They had to be negotiating with this man. We heard from our reporter that he had been in the tail. He had been in the back. The passengers didn't see him. But he had been telling the flight attendants go collect their passports, and the flight attendants had the presence of mind, they said, to keep everyone calm. Just incredible training.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I am so impressed with how they reacted to this. And 30 years in 1985 was the most botched hijacking of all time. But this time now after training, after what they have been through, this flight crew and those who were involved afterwards with the negotiations, all of those people are to be commended for what they have done because of the fact that you are balancing the truth of what's happening, which is the fact that someone is saying they are going to blow up that airplane. And the fact is that he did not have or may not have been a true threat. Those have to be balanced, and they did it in such a way where no one was hurt and everyone got off the airplane safely. It's really a testament to all the training and everything that's gone on over time to get them to this point.

LEMON: Mary Schiavo, it is quite often the flight attendants and crew who have to take control in these situations. It is part of their training, the flight attendants. As Alisyn said, it is not just handing out soda. This is part of the rigorous training that goes into being a flight attendant.

SCHIAVO: Right. And the world changed on September 11, 2001, because what happened then is that the cockpit door will remain closed. So flight attendants were trained to be in most cases the first responders. It is now the flight attendants that have to the respond to this and have to react. We all remember the flight attendant literally threw herself on the shoe bomber to save that plane. And so they know that cockpit door is going to remain closed and us. And we are they. We have to fix it. And kudos to the flight attendants. They have to do it in every case. They are the cops on the plane.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Jonathan, I was thinking about the fact that while the plane and the passengers and the crew are out of imminent danger. They are now in the safe hands of authorities there at the airport, this is far from over in terms of what they need to assess what went on and what motivated this man to make sure, because the fact is we do live in an era of terrorism, right? So while they have said they don't believe this is terror and not terror related, you want to look carefully at this man's motives and the reasons that brought him there, you want to assess his mental capacity.

GILLIAM: It doesn't matter what his motivation was. That is important. But when you looks at the security of an airport, it doesn't matter if a guy wants to take a plane down, which happened not too long ago where the pilot crashed a plane into the mountain. If it is a terrorist or if it's a guy who wants to see his wife, they have do the investigation the same way, and they have to find out where the holes are in their system where they are missing these things.

So yes, right now is a very crucial time. Interviewing these passengers before their memory degrades, because once they come down from the adrenaline, there is going to be a lot of stuff that they don't remember. Right now is a crucial time when you're doing the investigation. It's also a very crucial time where people are going to be a little worried about am I going to get in trouble because I didn't check this guy? And so getting the truth out of those people as well is going to be something that they are going to be dealing with I think right now.

CAMEROTA: David, one of the peculiar things about what we're seeing on the screen, this is moments ago as more passengers were leaving, the airplane door has been open the whole time that the plane is on the ground, and yet that person took the other exit out of the window and scaled his way down the plane. So hard to know why this is happening here on the side of the airplane there. And have you seen this before in other hostage situation where is the airplane door is wide open?

SOUCIE: The airplane door typically isn't open, you're right. But this would indicate to me the protocol would be to keep the cockpit door closed during the entire time. So I would think that the person climbing out of that cockpit probably was a pilot, but nonetheless it is a separate event, two different things going on.

But part of their training as well is if you are not contributing or protecting the passengers, which, remember, most of the passengers had been deplaned through that door. So at this point to evacuate the airplane any means necessary is what the crew would do. So I suspect that was a pilot who had served his purpose. He wasn't functioning as someone helping with the situation so he would have escaped through that emergency exit, dropping out the ladder to climb out. You can see that he's obviously experienced how to do that. So he's had training. It is either a pilot or crew member. But in this case I believe it's a pilot because of the door being closed and remaining closed during the situation.

LEMON: Mary, this is where people like you come in for the investigation.

[08:10:00] So what happens now? Now that he is in custody, now that they are having the chance to speak to the people on board this plane, what's next?

SCHIAVO: Not only are they speaking to the people on board in the plane, they are back to the origin of this flight. Right now they should be combing the origin of the flight, who worked the flight, who booked the passengers? Is there any chance he had anything inside the airport, because they have to scrub the security of Egypt Air because this is a huge issue for Egypt Air if there was any violation. And Egypt air has had its problems in the past. So even more than at the sight more is going on back at the origin, back at Egypt Air, back where the flight took off and they are scrubbing through there as well because that is going to be very important so there are no copycats. You've got to close that door and keep that door closed to any potential persons in the future that want the repeat this. So I think for the airline itself and for the traveling public everywhere, even more important is what's going on back at the point of departure.

PEREIRA: We have new video to show you. This is apparently the moment of the arrest of the individual. He is in the white shirt around the center of your screen. You can see there is armed personnel with his arm around him. That appears to be the suspect which we know Seif Eldin Mustafa. We understand that he is an Egyptian national. He is now in custody. What we don't know, Jonathan, as we watch this video of his arrest and being taken into custody, what of that suicide vest or the belt or the explosives? We haven't gotten confirmation if he was indeed carrying any sort of explosives with him.

GILLIAM: I guarantee they wouldn't be walking with him right there if he had it on.

LEMON: You said you believe he didn't have one but that you have to treat it as if he did anyway, correct?

GILLIAM: That's correct. I don't know whether or not he had one on in the plane, but I know the officers are not going to be surrounded him like that right there if he has one on, which would typically be you show whatever you have on, you pull your shirt up, just like you do in a regular arrest and they want to see if there's a gun.

In this case, though, I'm sure they approached him slowly to make sure that he didn't have anything. We may very well find out he doesn't have anything. In which case there is no security violation. It is just potentially a guy who just got on a plane and yelled "hijack," which used to work. I'm still surprised that the passengers did not react to this.

LEMON: And Alisyn, as you have been saying, the best possible outcome.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Jonathan, Mary, David, thank you very much for all of your expertise. Wow, what a chilling account Ian Lee brought us of the passengers who just said they saw the Mediterranean and they knew they weren't supposed to be flying over the Mediterranean. Let's go to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, drama of a far different sort. The three remaining Republican candidates will take the stage in Milwaukee in less than 12 hours. Time for a critical CNN town hall. This is a week before the Wisconsin primary. The bitter feud that has emerged between the two top Republicans nearing a tipping point. What can we expect when the curtain rises tonight? Our coverage begins with CNN's Phil Mattingly live in Milwaukee. Hey, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Michaela. Well, over the last six or seven days we've seen barbs traded in 140 characters or sound bites or even maybe in rallies for certain candidates. Tonight you are going to hear in depth the views of what's happened over the last six or seven days from the personal attacks to the foreign policy in-depth views to perhaps what could happen going forward on a contested convention, all based in Wisconsin, the next crucial primary state.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: All three GOP candidates converging on the battle ground state, Wisconsin, for tonight's CNN town hall a week before the voters head to the polls in the high stakes primary. Republican frontrunner Donald Trump receiving a hostile reception Monday, protesters demanding Trump cancel a rally later today, saying to, quote, "keep hate out of our state." Popular Wisconsin conservative radio host Charlie Sykes, who endorsed Ted Cruz, also giving Trump the cold shoulder.

CHARLIE SYKES, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Mr. Trump, before you called into my show did you know that I'm a #NeverTrump guy?

TRUMP: That I didn't know.

MATTINGLY: An opening act for a state with 42 delegates at stake and a strong anti-Trump movement.

SYKES: Here in Wisconsin, we value things like civility, decency, and actual conservative principles. So let's possibly make some news.

MATTINGLY: Trump continuing to defend his campaign's attacks on Ted Cruz and his wife Heidi, again blaming Cruz for a super PAC ad in Utah that featured Trump's wife Melania.

TRUMP: Again I didn't start it. He started it. If he didn't start it, it would have never happened. Nothing like this would have ever happened. But he started it.

SYKES: Remember we are --

TRUMP: What you just said is fine with me.

SYKES: We're not on a playground. We are running for president of the United States.

TRUMP: Right.

MATTINGLY: In an interview with CNN's Sunlen Serfaty, Cruz laying down another challenge to Trump.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have heard that you wanted to beat Donald Trump one-on-one. Why?

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: CNN has two town halls back to back. An hour with me, an hour with Donald Trump in the exact same location.

[08:15:04] We should make it a debate. Let's make it a two hour debate. Let's combine our events.

MATTINGLY: And Ohio Governor John Kasich attacking both of his opponents on their foreign policy position. GOV. JOHN KASICH, (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, we have one

guy saying we should patrol Muslim neighborhoods and the other saying we should have a religious test. It's not good foreign policy.

MATTINGLY: All while Trump threatens to sue over delegate allegiances in Louisiana, a state Trump won but Cruz could walk away with more delegates. The Texas senator brushing off Trump's litigation threats.

CRUZ: Who cares? He can threaten whoever he likes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (on camera): Now Michaela, what's most interesting about this event tonight is it's coming really at a central time for the future of this primary. There's a lot of ground for candidates to make up or move with, according to local operatives I've been speaking to over the last couple days in Wisconsin. Ted Cruz, Donald Trump really battling it out, but the way the delegates are allocated in this state are by congressional district for the most part. S

So even if you're not winning the state, like, say, John Kasich, there's a chance to pick up delegates here. Tonight a big night for candidates as they try and figure out that path forward. Again, there is a serious anti-Trump movement in the state of Wisconsin. Can Ted Cruz and John Kasich capitalize on that? Tonight will be the first opportunity to see if they can, Michaela.

PEREIRA: And we'll be watching it. All right, Phil. Thank you so much. So, a reminder, don't forget to tune in for CNN town hall tonight. Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Donald Trump all take part in that town hall there in Wisconsin. The prime time event will be moderated by our Anderson Cooper at 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN.

LEMON: That will be dramatic drama playing out at the U.S. Capitol as well where public safety is under the microscope after a man took out what appeared to be a weapon at the Capitol visitor center. The suspect now facing charges and it is not his first run in with Capitol police.

CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju, live from the Capitol with more. Good morning.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning, Don. Larry Russell Dawson, a 66-year-old man was charged with two crimes last night by Capitol police.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

RAJU (voice-over): That includes charged with assault with a deadly weapon and assault on a police officer while armed. Now, Mr. Dawson allegedly entered the Capitol visitor center complex yesterday afternoon with a firearm, and when he went through a metal detector the alarm sounded.

He waved that gun around and at that point a Capitol police officer show him. Mr. Dawson was then transferred to a local hospital, surgery was performed, and when he becomes in better condition, when he gets in better condition, he will actually go to D.C. Superior Court and face his charges. Nobody else was injured other than a woman, had minor injuries because of shrapnel wounds.

Now, Mr. Dawson is well known to Capitol police. In October 2015 he disrupted the House floor when he yelled from the visitors gallery, "I'm a prophet of God." At that point he was removed, he was arrested, and he was asked not to return to the - to the Capitol. Clearly he did, and now we'll see how he addresses the charges when they're presented to him in court, whenever he recovers from those injuries.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

RAJU (on camera): Michaela?

CAMEROTA: I'll take it, Manu. Thank you for all of that.

We want to turn now to Brussels because authorities are intensifying their search for two remaining suspects in last week's terror attacks and eight others believed to have some connection with the attackers. European officials also are said to be asking the U.S. for help examining laptops and phones seized in the aftermath of the bombings.

CNN's senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is tracking all of the latest for us this morning from Brussels. Nick?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The threads continue to seem a little bit out of the grasp of investigators here. There were high hopes that the main suspect in this hunt, the man in white from the airport video, had potentially been in custody. A lot of the speculation in the media backed up by some officials, and in fact it was a man known as Faycal C. But that man was released yesterday, investigators saying simply the evidence didn't stack up in effect, he was innocent.

So that means there are still two individuals on the - on the loose here, the man from the airport video and also the man suspected to be the accomplice of the metro bomber, plus anybody else involved in the cell. The number of clues missed by police staggering. We ourselves saw in the apartment where the Bakraoui brothers prepared the chemicals that turned out to be used for the bombs. They mishandled them so badly that it leaked between entire floors from the top floor to the floor below. And in fact, one man who was in that building said he saw a key ISIS bomb maker, Najim Laachraoui, the second man in that airport video, visit that apartment.

It is remarkable to see how many clues were missed. And now, as day passes after day, that these arrests seem to be yielding less sense of a certainty here for ordinary Belgians who simply want to know the men behind those attacks in custody.

Back to you.

PEREIRA: Such a sense of ill ease they must have there in Belgium, the resident. Thanks so much for joining us, Nick. We appreciate it. So, the Egypt air hijacking situation is over. That suspect is

arrested. We will bring you the very latest from Cypress. Plus, the war of words heating between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz over candidate's wives.

[08:20:03] We're going to ask Trump's campaign whether this latest controversy could slow him down in Wisconsin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: You know what that music means, it's time to talk politics. Donald Trump refusing to back down on his attacks on Heidi Cruz during a tense radio interview with a conservative Wisconsin radio host a week ahead of the primary there. Could Trump's latest line of attack make him his own worst enemy?

Let's check in now with Katrina Pierson, the national spokesperson for the Trump campaign. Good morning, Katrina. Thanks for joining us on NEW DAY.

KATRINA PIERSON, NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Good morning, Don.

LEMON: I want to start with that interview.

PIERSON: Thank you.

LEMON: That interview that Donald Trump did yesterday with Charlie Sykes. You know Charlie Sykes, he's really the conservative radio host in Wisconsin. Sykes surprised your candidate, Trump, by saying that he was part of the #nevertrump campaign. Listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CHARLIE SYKES, RADIO HOST: Mr. Trump, before you called into my show, did you know that I'm a #nevertrump guy?

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That I didn't, no.

SYKES: Okay, well because I thought it was interesting. People were wondering, does Donald Trump know what Charlie Sykes has said about him in the past?

TRUMP: No, no I didn't.

SYKES: And I would give you credit either way, but I was wondering.

TRUMP: No, no, I understand.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEMON: Katrina, did your campaign know what Donald Trump was getting into? Shouldn't he have been prepared, armed with that knowledge?

PIERSON: Well, I think what you're seeing is the fact that Donald Trump doesn't really care. Look at this. We have seen Mr. Trump go in very hostile territory. We have seen Mr. Trump go into interviews knowing that anchors have said horrible things about him in the past, and he's been unafraid to do these interviews. This is a radio show in Wisconsin. He did do the interview and he defended himself.

LEMON: So, you don't think that he should have known, it would not have helped? He might -- possibly he may not have done the interview had he known.

PIERSON: No, and I think he would. I mean, that's my point.

[08:25:23] Donald Trump is not afraid to do interviews. He's the only candidate that is willing to go into hostile territory. But I think the bigger question here is this - this somehow - this -- this attack on Ted Cruz's wife narrative that somehow sprouted last week, and it's unfortunate that I was unable to come on to discuss that.

Because the fact of the matter here, Don, is there's only been one wife attacked this cycle, and that is Melania Trump. Last year Glenn Beck, Ted Cruz's top surrogate, was trashing Melania Trump and no one said anything. Earlier this month on another network there was another woman supportive of Ted Cruz who maligned Melania Trump's character. This was before the attack ad by the pro-Ted Cruz PAC.

LEMON: So why then - why would - why then would Donald Trump need you to defend -- if Donald Trump can defend himself against - against the likes of Glenn Beck and other folks, why would he need - why would - why would Melania Trump need you to defend her?

PIERSON: But that's the point here. Mr. Trump is defending his wife. There is no such thing as an attack on Heidi Cruz. I have yet to hear the attack on Heidi Cruz.

LEMON: You - you didn't see the...

PIERSON: Mr. Trump simply said stop talk about my wife.

LEMON: Hang on, you didn't see the re-tweet - you didn't see the re- tweet that Donald Trump did? You don't think that that...

PIERSON: No, no.

LEMON: ... you don't that...

PIERSON: That is not an attack, no.

LEMON: That's not an attack on a woman by...

PIERSON: I don't think that's an attack.

LEMON: ... using an unflattering picture...

PIERSON: That is not an attack.

LEMON: ... of a wife.

PIERSON: No. LEMON: Then what would you call that then?

PIERSON: That is not an attack.

LEMON: And don't say -

PIERSON: It is...

LEMON: Hang on, hang on Katrina.

PIERSON: It is supporting his wife.

LEMON: Don't say that that's supporting his wife, because you don't need Heidi Cruz in that picture to support his wife.

PIERSON: Well, of course not. Mr. Trump didn't make the picture. He re-tweeted a tweet because he believes that his wife is beautiful just the way that she is. And since when did it become okay to attack a woman? What is the policy here? Is it okay to attack a woman, malign her character, impugn her dignity just because she's beautiful?

LEMON: That's the same...

PIERSON: Mr. Trump has been defending his wife this whole time.

LEMON: That can be asked - I can ask you the same question about Heidi Cruz, is it okay to malign Heidi Cruz who is a beautiful woman, to attack her and put up a horrible picture?

PIERSON: No one has maligned Heidi Cruz, no one has attacked Heidi Cruz. Melania Trump has been attacked. Where has that headline been on CNN? I bet CNN viewers didn't even know Melania Trump had been attacked for months by pro-Ted Cruz people. That's the problem here.

LEMON: We have been talking about that for - for months, Katrina. I think you're being very disingenuous about this. And let's get back to this...

PIERSON: It's not disingenuous because the headlines for a week have been...

LEMON: It is disingenuous because we have been talking about it.

PIERSON: ... attacks against Heidi Cruz.

LEMON: We've done interviews, we've...

PIERSON: And you've been talking about it.

LEMON: Hold on, Katrina.

PIERSON: But in the wrong context.

LEMON: Let me - we have been talking about it. We have interviewed Melania Trump. Anderson Cooper did a very extensive interview with Melania Trumo here he talked about all of those issues. We report on every single scandal, every single tweet, every single thing that happens, not only with Melania Trump, but also with Heidi Cruz and any of the other candidates. So, you're being very disingenuous by saying that we're not covering it, or that we should be covering in the context that you want us to cover.

PIERSON: No, you are covering it. And - you're - no, you're covering it, it's just in the wrong context.

LEMON: It's in the context that...

PIERSON: Because Heidi Cruz was never attacked.

LEMON: It's it in the context that you want us to cover. That doesn't mean that it's the wrong context.

PIERSON: It's a fact.

LEMON: But let's get back to...

PIERSON: These are facts, Don.

LEMON: Let's get -- Facts are facts. But let's move on and talk about the other thing in this interview where the host asked that maybe Mr. Trump should apologize or maybe he should keep wives off the table.

Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIOCLIP0

SYKES: I expect that from a 12-year-old bully on a playground, not somebody who wants the office held by Abraham Lincoln.

TRUMP: Again I didn't start it, he started it.

SYKES: Do you ever apologize? Because you know what, most real men when they screw up they'll go, you know what? I was a hot head I shouldn't have done that.

TRUMP: I do apologize, I believe in apologizing, but I think he's - I think before I would think about apologizing, I -- he owes me an apology.

(END AUDIOCLIP)

LEMON: Okay, so let's just say, you know, for the sake of it, Ted Cruz said that it was a Super PAC, that it wasn't him. Let's just say that Ted Cruz did start it. Is it an excuse beyond second or third grade to say that, well, he did it first, well they did it first? Is that really an excuse, Katrina?

PIERSON: Well, I think it's supportive of what he has always said, particularly with Super PACs, that he was going to hold the campaigns accountable for the attacks on their behalf. And this was on the behalf of Ted Cruz and he is a counter puncher. This is nothing new. Donald Trump did not start this, but he will respond, and to expect a

man to not defend his wife in this case, I think, is - is pretty insane. And the fact that he continues to support his wife and defend her in light of these attacks when the media is making someone else the victim, no he shouldn't apologize until Ted Cruz does because even a Fox News anchor, when Melania was being attacked on his show, said this is a very slippery slope to start going after spouses, and that's when Donald Trump issued the warning.

LEMON: Yes. Katrina Pierson, thank you very much, I appreciate that. I think it's a very good spin...

PIERSON: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: ... that you've put on it, but not necessarily the truth.

PIERSON: It's (inaudible) --