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Dems Continue Gun Vote Protest; Brexit Vote Begins. Aired 8:30- 9 a ET

Aired June 23, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, David.

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So last year, to the BBC, President Obama called these mass shootings the most frustrating issue and the one on which he's been most stymied. What was it like in the White House when an issue of gun control or a mass shooting would come up?

AXELROD: Well, you've seen it many times. Each time the president walking into that briefing room at the White House and speaking to this, his frustration level growing. I think after the events in Newtown and the murder of those young children, the fact that he couldn't move Congress to act was one of the low points of the presidency. But, you know, we live in a constitutional democracy, and Congress has its say. And if Congress is unwilling to move, we're in a stalemate here and these things are going to continue to happen. And so it's a source of great frustration to him and I'm sure to people around him that we are where we are.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it gets complicated so quickly, though, right, Axe. I mean, first of all, you have the political reality in polls, which is everybody says they want change, but they don't get to the polls and vote that way.

AXELROD: Right.

CUOMO: You have people who want protections for the Second Amendment, vote more on that issue than those who say they wants change. So that fuels a lot of the recalcitrant that we're seeing in Congress.

But in terms of the diagnosis of Orlando, the conflict now is, the Democrats are making it about guns. The Republicans are saying no, no, no, this is about our inability to stop ISIS. That's what this murderer in Orlando said this was about. And whether it was a pressure cooker, a knife, a car, a bomb or a gun, he was going to do something about it. So let's go after that problem, not guns.

AXELROD: Well, look, you - if you take - if you take the politics out of it, we - there are two problems. One is, you do have ISIS trying to incite people. Some of these mass killings had nothing to do with - many of them have nothing to do with ISIS. The last couple have been motivated that way.

CUOMO: True. AXELROD: But there's no doubt that if someone couldn't get semi-

automatic weapons that kill at a prodigious rate, that you could at least limit some of these possibilities. So, you know the question is, can you save some lives, not, can you save all lives? Can you stop some of - some of these incidents -

CUOMO: Right, but one comma on that, Axe -

AXELROD: Yes, go ahead.

CUOMO: One comma on that. We cover these mass shootings. You know, you've spent years of your life going to these.

AXELROD: Yes.

CUOMO: I've spent more years doing it because obviously you're much younger than I am. What I'm saying is, every time this happens, we get all about the assault rifles, OK. And I understand that.

CAMEROTA: So-called.

CUOMO: However, they're less than 1 percent of gun crime in this country. And what you have on the other side are people saying, you want me to make a change to my rights to legally have a weapon and protect myself -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: For things that happen less than 1 percent of the time.

CAMEROTA: But they're involved in all the mass shootings. The mass shootings are what gets all of the attention, because they're -

CUOMO: Are almost always (INAUDIBLE). But it's less than 1 percent.

CAMEROTA: They're, you know, obviously so sickening. And when there's a common thread, I think it makes sense that lawmakers would say, hey, let's examine that common thread.

CUOMO: And people say, you have background checks, you have all these different laws, why don't you enforce them, why don't you get it right on the enforcement side instead of finding more ways to burden my rights as a lawful purchaser of weapons?

AXELROD: But, Chris, I sit - I'm sitting here in the city of Chicago, where obviously there's been a great deal of trouble with guns and shootings. And half of those guns, according to the police, come from across the border in Indiana from gun shows where there are no background checks and you get straw buyers -

CUOMO: And a lot of illegal sales, Axe.

AXELROD: Who - and they come in here and they sell - sell these guns to street gangs, sometimes in large numbers. These things can be helped. Background checks do - they don't stop everything, but they can stop something. And it's not unreasonable to ask everyone who buys a gun to go through a background check. I think most Americans agree on that.

What's really interesting about what's going on in Congress is, why is it that Paul Ryan doesn't want a vote on the floor of the House? He doesn't want a vote because he doesn't want to put his members between the NRA and gun lobby and public opinion. He doesn't want them to have to cast a vote.

And that tells you where the country is on this. And - and the question is, how long can the Congress hold on in the face of public opinion. But you put your finger on it. Unless people vote on this issue, it's - they can go on for quite a while because the people who are most motivated by it happen to be, at least as a voting issue, to date, have been on the other side of the issue.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Let's talk about what's going on as you speak. We're watching this cell phone video from FaceBook live of what's going on, on the House floor. You know, we've had some Republicans on this morning, David, who say this is anarchy. This is just, you know, the members not following sort of the Democratic principles of, you know, there are certain rules for Congress. When you're in session, you vote. And when you're not in session, the cameras are off, you're supposed to leave. How do you see it?

[08:35:00] AXELROD: Well, I think that they're drawing attention to this issue in a dramatic way. I don't think anyone - I don't think either party is completely devoid of responsibility for dramatics in Congress. I mean we've seen it on both sides. We've seen in the past that - Republicans doing something similar to this and staying on the House floor because they wanted a vote. This is, you know, we've seen theatrics in politics before. But here we are talking about this issue and we probably wouldn't have been talking about it had the Democrats in the House not done what they've done. So, you know, I think they're using the tools that are available to them, which are few.

CAMEROTA: David Axelrod, thank you. Always great to get your perspective.

AXELROD: Nice to see you guys.

CUOMO: All right, so we have this sit-in going on in - on the House floor and then we just have it getting down and dirty on the big question overseas. In the U.K. right now, people are going to the polls to decide whether or not Britain should leave or remain in the European Union. They're calling it the Brexit vote, right? The Britain exit vote. Whatever happens there is going to reverberate right back here to your 401(k).

CNN's senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir is live in London with more.

What do we know now?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Chris.

Well, the weather has not been helping this morning. We've had flooding, shuttered polling stations, disruptions to the transport links. Over the next few hours, we've been told to expect a few months' worth of rainfall and that's really causing a lot of nervousness on both sides of this crucial question because the expectation is that this is going to be tight.

And as you rightly say, this isn't just about Britain's place in Europe. This is about Britain's place in the world. And we're seeing already financial ramifications on the stock markets. The Obama administration has warned about the potential ramifications to the exchange of information and cooperation in the global war of terror. Really extensional issues.

And Britains are so aware of how crucial this is. This has been a pretty fractious campaign. People aren't even agreeing across their own dinner tables. The rhetoric, especially given immigration, has been a key issue, has been pretty, pretty dirty. So a lot of people here just happy to get through today and see what tomorrow brings.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, we are looking to see what tomorrow brings there. Nima, thanks so much for the update.

All right, back to Washington, where Democrats are still going strong with their sit-in, demanding action on gun control after more than 21 hours at this. What is their end game? We'll ask a congressman who is part of this protest, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41:39] CUOMO: Democrats on the House floor showing no signs of giving up their sit-in, demanding a vote on gun control, now 21 hours and counting. That is the clock on your screen.

How did the Republicans respond? They adjourned the session. They left town for this scheduled July 4th break. But they did it a couple of days early.

Joining us now, Steve Israel, Democratic congressman from New York, former chairman of the DCCC. He attended the sit-in.

Congressman, thank you for joining us on NEW DAY. What do you want, and will you extend the sit-in through the break?

REP. STEVE ISRAEL (D), NEW YORK: Well, first of all, Chris, forgive the sound of my voice. I worked the night shift and we're going on hour 21 right now and I've been on the floor for those 21 hours. Here's what we want. We just want a vote. We said at the beginning of this week that we were entitled to a vote on no fly/no buy. We said we'd use every tool in our tool box. Some of those tools will be blunt, some sharp. We used sharp and blunt tools this week. And what did the Republicans do? They cut and ran. They decided last night that they would adjourned without giving us a vote on common sense gun safety legislation.

CUOMO: Two reasons, one, the Senate already voted on these same bills. Two, the no fly/no buy list does not have adequate due process protections for people wrongfully put on the list. Your respond?

ISRAEL: Well, the bill that we want to be voted on does have adequate due process considerations. It allows people to appeal to be brought off the list. It is very straightforward on that. We worked that out with Republicans. That's why the bill that we want to vote on is bipartisan, introduced by a Republican congressman from New York, Peter King, Democratic congressman from California. It's why 75 percent of NRA members support it. Why about between 85 and 90 percent of Americans support it. It's just common sense. We're not, you know, putting a line in the sand, demanding a vote on assault weapons bans. We're not drawing a line in the sand demanding a vote on CDC research. We're saying, just do this, and you can vote against it, but give us the vote and they've refused.

CUOMO: And another basis for refusal is, one is the politics of it, it's a stunt. That's not unusual in politics. Not necessarily a bad thing. Another point of pushback is, why are you making guns about Orlando? Orlando is about fighting ISIS and Democrats unwilling to take on ISIS with the kind of aggression and actions and language that it demands.

ISRAEL: Chris, we could do both things. We can take on ISIS. We can be aggressive in protecting people's security from abroad. But we also have to be aggressive in protecting people's security at home. And that's what this is about. It's not just about Orlando. It's about Newtown, Connecticut. It's about Aroura. It's about 20 children who were murdered in the Sandy Hook. It's about all of those things.

And all we're asking for is this. If you are believed to be so dangerous that you can't get on a plane, then it shouldn't be easy for you to buy a weapon of war. It's just that simple. We're going to stay here until we get a vote. And if we don't get a vote, these Republican are going to have to go back to their districts starting today and explain to their constituents why they didn't even have the courage to allow for a vote on this.

CUOMO: Are you going to blow your break and stay in Washington?

ISRAEL: We're going to stay - the current plan now is to stay at least until 11:15. That would be the 24 hour mark. We will be in session, what's called a proforma session, tomorrow, a couple days next week. We're going to continue to use every tool in our toolbox to keep the issue alive.

[08:45:02] CUOMO: I'm not trying to mess up your holiday plans, but I do have to say, as a journalist, and just a regular person, if you guys really care, then you'll blow through the barbecues and the breaks. So it will be interesting to see that.

However, balance that with this reality, congressman. This is not new. This bill from Peter King, who's one of the - you know, the co-signs on it, that's from 2007, by his own reckoning. It was a Bush era bill that they were asking him to do.

ISRAEL: Correct. CUOMO: Where was this ardor, this enthusiasm then from Democrats? You have been in control when some of these bills have come up and we didn't see sit-ins then. We didn't see the push for votes then. Why now?

ISRAEL: Well, actually, there was a push for votes on this and other measures. We faced some pretty stiff resistance. But since then we have had - just in the past several months we have had the murders of American citizens, 50 of them in Orlando. It comes a point where you just can't keep doing moments of silence. Thirty-seven moments of silence. It ain't working. So there comes a point whereas, as a minority, we have to use all the tools we have to force a vote. And if - for us it was unconscionable to allow Paul Ryan to bang - to bang the gavel, call us into session on Tuesday night, and then bang the gavel and release us on vacation on Friday. And that's why we're doing what we're doing.

CUOMO: If you want to do something, you know the expression, don't let perfection be the enemy of progress.

ISRAEL: Correct.

CUOMO: Why didn't you ask to vote on the bill about further funding for the background check system, when you know that one of the problems with vetting people who want guns is that the enforcement mechanisms aren't great. Why not fund that bill?

ISRAEL: Well, Chris you know what, we're never going to get perfection. We realize that. And there were some on our caucus who said we ought to just push hard for a ban on assault weapons. There are some who said we should push hard for limits on capacity of magazines. We felt that this is a time for compromise. And if we couldn't get everything we wanted, at least give us something that 75 percent of NRA members support, and between 80 and 90 percent of the American people.

When you get Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton agreeing to something, pass it. Don't spend much time debating it. But Paul Ryan and the Republicans not only would not give us a vote, but they cut this week short. They left at 4:00 in the morning. They're getting on planes right now where they're protected no fly lists, but they're not willing to protect their constituents from people who are on the list but may be able to buy weapons of war.

CUOMO: Congressman Steve Israel, thank you for being with us on NEW DAY, as always.

ISRAEL: Thank you, Chris. Sorry about the voice.

CUOMO: Take care. No, no, no, you sound great. You sound great.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris, next we have the view from the other side of the House. We'll talk to a Republican who voted down a Democratic gun bill, but has a proposal of his own. We'll get into what that is, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:51:26] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GOHMERT: Radical Islam killed these people!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sit down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Give us a vote.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sit down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sit down.

(CROSS TALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, that was chaos last night erupting on the House floor with Democrats refusing to budge or leave the room until they get a vote on gun control. Republicans responded by ending the session overnight and then leaving town. How do Republicans process what's happening today?

Joining me now is Congressman David Jolly. He's a Republican from Florida who has introduced legislation in the House to address the due process concerns on gun control.

Congressman, thanks so much for being here.

REP. DAVID JOLLY (R), FLORIDA: Gou got it. Good to be with you this morning. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, how do you see what's going on, on the House floor right now?

JOLLY: Listen, I respect the convictions of members on both sides of the aisle, and I understand the frustration as well. What I'm trying to get to is this. Let's get to a bill that says no fly/no buy. Everybody can agree on that. But let's have some due process protections. And so my only concern about what's going on on the House floor right now is, if the insistence is to vote on a bill that's already been out there for a couple of years, that fails on the due process front -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JOLLY: We really haven't accomplished much. So I'm asking people to look at my bill, HR-5544 -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JOLLY: That providing an independent judiciary evaluation if you're denied a firearm.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JOLLY: If it's not my bill, then let's find another one, but let's get to a consensus and let's get it done for the American people.

CAMEROTA: We're looking at it right now.

JOLLY: All right.

CAMEROTA: Here are the tenants of it. No fly/no buy. If you're on the no fly list, you don't buy a gun. The government explains why you're on that list or why you weren't able to buy a gun within 10 days to you.

JOLLY: Once you're denied, right.

CAMEROTA: Once you're denied. Then you get a due process hearing within 30 days. And all unclassified evidence is revealed to you. Who is against your bill, congressman?

JOLLY: You know, the cynic in me would say too many people are interested in actually not getting anything done because it plays better in November. I think the American people have a different opinion. They want something done.

You know, I spent most of the day on the House floor yesterday, not joining in the sit-in, but looking for Democrats to work with to constructively say, let's get to a due process provision on your side or my side of the aisle that we can agree on and let's go forward.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JOLLY: We can get there. I know we can. This is not as hard as it seems. Unfortunately, the politics have begun to creep in and we've got to rise above that.

CAMEROTA: Congressman, should Speaker Paul Ryan allow a vote?

JOLLY: Well, so a vote on the Democratic proposal would go down. Should he allow it? Listen, I'm somebody who thinks the House should work its will. Let's put immigration on the floor. Let's put tax reform, let's put guns, let's put everything on the floor and let the House work it's will. I'm the author of the 40 hour workweek bill in Congress. So I'd always prefer to see that. But, again, if it's just a Democratic proposal, it will fail.

CAMEROTA: But I mean on yours, should -

JOLLY: So let's get a proposal that works.

CAMEROTA: But why not vote on yours?

JOLLY: I would love that. And we need the support of the American people. I need the support of a couple Democrats. You know, I - I found five or ten yesterday.

CAMEROTA: Yes. JOLLY: Some of them said, yes, that's a good idea, but we're not there yet. Let's get there.

CAMEROTA: Why? What's the - what's the problem? I mean what could they possibly object to in what you've just spelled out?

JOLLY: You know, opinions get kind of hardened when you get into passionate debates, and I'm afraid that's what's happening now. And so I'm trying to give a voice of reason. Let's overcome it. I'm not going to criticize my colleagues. I don't agree with all their tactics right now.

I think our side should act. I don't agree with the inaction on our side for the next couple of weeks. But I've just got to keep the voice up. I need the voice of the American people to say, if you like the Jolly bill, vote for the Jolly bill, up or down. But if it's not the Jolly bill, maybe it's Collins, maybe it's a Democratic proposal that adds due process, but let's get something done.

CAMEROTA: See, in public opinion polls, the American public does agree with that and the American public is speaking through public opinion polls and they do -

JOLLY: Alisyn, there's a reason we have an 85 percent disapproval rating.

CAMEROTA: Exactly, congressman. Exactly.

JOLLY: It's because we can't solve the easy stuff. This isn't that hard. It really isn't.

[08:55:01] CAMEROTA: This is not that hard.

JOLLY: It's not.

CAMEROTA: Everything that you're saying sounds reasonable. It addresses the due process issue, which Republicans have said is their stumbling block.

JOLLY: Right.

CAMEROTA: And it says no fly/no buy.

JOLLY: Right.

CAMEROTA: I mean these are all the - you seem to have cobbled together all of the different pieces of different bills that everybody should be able to get behind. So -

JOLLY: I've tried. And I've put in the look back provision that Bill Nelson issued, that probably would have flagged Mateen. You know, the Democrats want to vote on a bill that probably wouldn't have stopped Mateen. I want to vote on a bill that would have stopped Mateen.

CAMEROTA: OK. So what will it take to get a vote on your bill? JOLLY: Let's have the American people not call the speaker's office

and say, give a vote on the current Democratic proposal. Call the Capitol switchboard and say, let's give a vote on a consensus bill. I think it's mine, HR-5544. But if it's not, that's fine. But I also need Democrats to drop the swords of partisanship, stop calling the speaker a coward, stop screaming sham on the House floor. Let's let the better angels among us get us through this next chapter. We can get this done.

CAMEROTA: Congressman David Jolly, you're making too much sense.

JOLLY: It's far too reasonable to get done in Congress.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it must be. Congressman, thank you for all of that.

JOLLY: You got it.

CAMEROTA: And we will actually - I'll tweet out the number for the -

JOLLY: HR-5544.

CAMEROTA: Well, not for that, for the Capitol operator -

JOLLY: Oh, OK.

CAMEROTA: So that people can make their voices heard however they want the vote to go.

Congressman, thank you very much for being on NEW DAY.

Well, CNN's breaking coverage of the gun control showdown on Capitol Hill will continue on "Newsroom" with Carol Costello right after this very short break. And we'll see you tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:7] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.