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Melania's Speech Lifted; Baton Rouge Police Killings; Speech Controversy. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 19, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:31:38] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, so there's a big story developing this morning. The Trump campaign was here on NEW DAY just a couple of hours ago and they were slamming the allegations of this portion of Melania Trump's speech last night at the convention and the thought that it was lifted from Michelle Obama's speech address at the Democratic Convention in 2008.

So here to discuss this is CNN political commentator and senior contributor to "The Daily Caller," Matt Lewis, and CNN political analyst and host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast, David Gregory.

Guys, thanks so much for being here.

This story is moving very quickly. Last night Melania gave a speech that was very well-received inside the hall and out. She exceeded expectations. She - her delivery was great. The content was great. And then this morning we wake up to find some of that content was lifted almost verbatim from Michelle Obama's 2008 speech to the Democratic National Convention. How should the campaign have handled it before we get to what has happened?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, I think that anybody who followed - who knows campaign 101, you cop to it, you probably fire somebody. That is what any normal campaign would do. That's exactly not what Donald Trump would do. So he's actually playing according to his own rules. It's predictable. And I do question like the conventional wisdom. Look, we - we work in a business where if you plagiarize, it's a big deal. It may be career- ending. It's different in the Donald Trump world. And I think it's different to the average person. So we may be - even though I think morally, ethically horrible, we may be over hyping it in terms of the impact.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: So, Paul Manafort comes on. He's a hero for Trump. He made this convention possible in a lot of ways. He comes on here and he says, there was no cribbing. This is a story that's coming from Hillary Clinton because Melania is a strong woman and Hillary Clinton -

CAMEROTA: She threatens Hillary.

CUOMO: Threatens - is threatened and therefore must destroy her. There's absolutely no substance to any of that, that is verifiable because he's obviously making it up. He also denies other things that are very obvious that have happened here regarding Governor Kasich and what happened last night with Trump call into Fox during Pat Smith's speech. Obvious things. But here's the response that we're seeing so far. Trump people say it doesn't matter because what Clinton lies about matters more. So does this just come to, you didn't capitalize on something that you could have really hit out of the park, but you still get a triple?

DAVID GREGORY, HOST, "THE DAVID GREGORY SHOW" PODCAST: No, I don't think so. I mean I think - well, there will be plenty of people who dismiss it as just not a big deal, right? And - and I think Trump will double down on that. I mean my prediction is that they don't cop to it. I mean they made a decision. Paul Manafort clearly talked to Melania. There was discussion about this because he says to you this morning, well, you know, she certainly doesn't feel that that's what she did. So somebody did. Nobody -

LEWIS: A very Clintonian (ph) act.

GREGORY: Yes, nobody's going to believe that this stuff wasn't cribbed, at least in part, in an otherwise good speech. But they're going to deny the obvious. They're going - they're going to stand by her and Trump's going to somehow turn it on the media, I'm sure. Manafort's already turning it on Hillary Clinton. So there is a pattern to this, to fail to acknowledge the obvious. You have one goal when you're running a convention, which is you don't want to screw it up, you don't want to get in your own way. They got in their own way with the - with a headliner speech.

LEWIS: Well, if they admitted to it - if they admitted to it, it's not like we would be talking about something else.

CUOMO: No.

GREGORY: Right.

LEWIS: We would still be talking about -

CUOMO: No, no, no.

LEWIS: The plagiarism. So -

CUOMO: No, because it's not Donald Trump -

GREGORY: Right.

CUOMO: It's not Donald Trump cribbed part of his speech from Barack Obama. It's Melania expressing things that are very common sentiments about your - your spouse.

[08:35:07] GREGORY: There are - right. And by the way -

LEWIS: In exactly the same words as Michelle Obama.

GREGORY: Right. But, I mean, you know, you could say, oh, gee, you know what, clearly these were common sentiments and, yes, it was a nod to a very good speech that Michelle Obama gave, you know, inadvertently or somehow -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

GREGORY: With much too much flattery, some of those sentiments got into this speech as well. They can't be blamed for a good, you know, (INAUDIBLE).

LEWIS: What about (INAUDIBLE). (INAUDIBLE) ripped off, you know, George Bush, Dick Cheney, and John Kerry with this really cliche -

CUOMO: Dramatic.

LEWIS: Help is on the way or whatever.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it happens.

GREGORY: Right.

CAMEROTA: We see it and it happens. But I think you're wrong, Matt, that if they had just come out and said, oopsy daisy, a speechwriter took this from Michelle Obama, that we actually would still be talking about, because we were moving away to other themes.

LEWIS: OK.

CAMEROTA: Paul Manafort coming on NEW DAY is what gave it this added life because he said, no, did not happen. Did not happen because -

GREGORY: Because it's ultimately about what they do when they're questioned, what they do when they're pushed, what they do when they're under stress. And this is "they." This is Trump and the people he surrounds himself with. How do they respond? That's what voters - there are supporters. There are people who are supporters but who worry about Trump. There's people on the fence. And there's people who don't think he's qualified. Not up for the big job.

LEWIS: But the problem is the media -

GREGORY: (INAUDIBLE) -

LEWIS: The media - we - and I'm - I'm one of us. We have - I'm one of us. But the media does not -

CUOMO: You used to criticize him for exactly this -

LEWIS: Oh, I did.

CUOMO: By the way, on this show.

LEWIS: Yes. Yes. Yes. OK.

CUOMO: Just to remind you. Now, please, continue.

LEWIS: So the media doesn't want - we don't really want to get into the weeds on Benghazi, OK, for a variety of reasons. So it's - we want to - we want to talk about horse race coverage. I mean I've read a lot about horse race coverage. A convention, you want it to be a little bit light. We -

CAMEROTA: Yes, but is it horse race to say, here's something where - that went wrong and now they're lying about it? Is that horse race (INAUDIBLE)?

LEWIS: All I'm saying is that if they had come out and copped to it and they said, somebody plagiarized, that person is fired, we would be talking about scandal in the Donald Trump campaign.

GREGORY: Well, but - but here's my point is that the reason these become issues is because the way you orchestrate a campaign is what you say to voters, judge me on how I run things. This is the biggest enterprise that Trump has run. Maybe not the biggest one he's run, but it's the biggest thing that most presidential candidates run, which is their campaign.

And, by the way, I would love to talk more in depth in the media about Benghazi and talk about the real issue, which is about the invasion and the aftermath of Libya. That's what Republicans don't want to talk about. They didn't want to talk about that on the stage last night.

CAMEROTA: All right, thank you, gentlemen. We appreciate all of the themes that you brought up.

And this is a line that brought the convention last night to its feet, blue lives matter, referring to police officers' lives. So what does the senator from Louisiana, from - he represented Baton Rouge, what does he have to say after officers were gunned down in his state? He talks to us about what's next there.

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[08:41:09] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. MICHAEL EDMONSON, LOUISIANA STATE POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: In this ongoing investigation, the most compelling piece of evidence is the video. It is the chilling and the sheer brutality of the shooting. There is no doubt whatsoever that these officers were intentionally targeted and assassinated. It was a calculated act against those who work to protect this community every single day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Law enforcement in Baton Rouge trying to figure out what happened. They want to know what motivated that cold-blooded killer to go after those brave officers.

Let's discuss this with the Republican senator from Louisiana, Bill Cassidy.

Senator, thanks so much for being here with us on NEW DAY.

I understand that you were supposed to be here at the convention in Cleveland today, but the issues have so consumed you down there in Baton Rouge that you can't be here. Can you give us the latest on what's happening in that city? SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R), LOUISIANA: Yes, we have the police reports that

you have. And so I cannot add to that. What I can say is that the community is trying - going through a period of examination. How do we support the police officers? How do we bridge the gap between some elements of the community and the law enforcement community? And how do we, on a personal level, help bridge that gap? Lastly, as a senator, I have to say, what can I do and what can we all do on a - on a kind of a bigger level to help each of those issues?

CAMEROTA: This was a topic of discussion, as you know, last night at the convention. There were lots of fiery speeches, one of them from Sheriff David Clark from Milwaukee County, Wisconsin, and he talked about what he thinks the solution is. So let me play that for you and our listeners.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF DAVID CLARK, MILWAUKEE COUNTY, WISCONSIN: Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to make something very clear. Blue lives matter in America! What we witnessed in Ferguson and Baltimore and Baton Rouge was a collapse of the social order. So many of the actions of the occupy movement and Black Lives Matter transcends peaceful protest and violates the code of conduct we rely on. I call it anarchy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, senator, he focused it on the protesters. He talked about the tactics of the protesters, rather than the tactics of police. Is that the right angle?

CASSIDY: Let's face it, there are people who are going to be destabilized if there's inflammatory language. Folks have a constitutional right to protest. But it can be a peaceful protest that is appropriate. I ran into peaceful protesters who were shaking hand with police officers, waving to them, bringing them drinks. That is appropriate.

On the other hand, if there is inflammatory, incendiary, think of another synonym, language that can take someone who is unstable and tip them over, that is what we need to all avoid. Now is not the time for that language, if there is ever any time for that language.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. But do police also need to examine what they can do differently? And, if so, what is your suggestion?

CASSIDY: I think we all need to examine. First, clearly it may not be involved with the Baton Rouge incident, it appears it was involved with the Dallas incident, how do we address issues of mental health in which somebody is unstable, that inflammatory language does tip them over. Secondly, we have to look at barriers to opportunity. A big interest of mine is dyslexia. A major risk factor for disaffection from society and imprisonment is illiteracy. And the federal government does a poor job of addressing the major cause of illiteracy, which is dyslexia. [08:45:03] Thirdly, on the police enforcement. The police speak of having a guardian role. That needs to be emphasized. And however - and this is the police define this out - I'm not a police officer or law enforcement - but that guardian role needs to be emphasized.

Matthew Gerald, one of the officers shot, there's a woman in Baton Rouge, African-American, who describes a week before his killing how he stopped - she was in the middle of the road. He helped her. And she posted on FaceBook what a wonderful man he is. As that is emphasized, hopefully those folks who are unstable come back to an understanding, law enforcement is our friend.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. And we do stories on NEW DAY all the time called "The Good Stuff" about all of the wonderful things that police do. They're angels in our community, but we have heard that community policing is also the answer, getting to know the community, getting the police back into the community instead of being alienated from it, and that will take money. Very quickly, senator, is Congress prepared to give more money for community policing?

CASSIDY: Congress has always been very supportive for law enforcement and for law enforcement initiatives. And I think this set of episodes, beginning with Ferguson, going all the way through Baton Rouge, I'm sorry to say, brings attention to the fact that there are policy decisions that need to be made, funding. I suspect Congress will be very generous with that.

CAMEROTA: Senator Bill Cassidy, thank you very much for all of your thoughts and best of luck there in Baton Rouge, to that city that needs it.

CASSIDY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, back here at the convention, Melania Trump got rave reviews for her convention speech until it was discovered that some of her words were not hers as all. And now the campaign is denying any plagiarism allegations. So how will this controversy affect her moment in the spotlight? We discuss that, next.

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[08:50:32] CUOMO: Donald Trump's campaign denying the striking similarities between Melania Trump's speech last night and Michelle Obama's in 2008. This controversy, because of the denial, now is threatening to overshadow what should have been a great night for the Trump team coming into the first night of the convention and certainly for Melania Trump. By all different ways you look at it, she had a good night until now.

Let's bring in Gabriel Sherman, he's a national affairs editor for "New York Magazine," and CNN's senior media correspondent and, of course, the host of "Reliable Sources," Brian Stelter.

Good to see you both.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: You too. CUOMO: I hope you learned from that to never disagree with me again.

GABRIEL SHERMAN, NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR, "NY MAGAZINE": Yes.

CUOMO: And we move on to new territory.

Do you think today we hear from Melania Trump, who comes out and says, here's what the writer did. I don't apologize for my own words. No?

SHERMAN: Unlikely. I mean Trump's whole strategy is you double down. You don't cede an inch. And it would be unprecedented for him to put his wife out there in that fashion.

CUOMO: But, this is unprecedented because, as we know, why doesn't Melania Trump want to be out front? Because she's not confident?

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Because she's not smart. Because she's not - no, very smart, very confident, very competent. She didn't want her own image to be mishandled.

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Now that has happened.

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: How do we know she wouldn't want her best defense, which is herself, Brian?

STELTER: And I think so many of us feel so sympathetic to her right now for this reason.

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: I wonder if we're about to see something from "The Apprentice." A "you're fired" moment by Donald Trump.

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: That would be particularly notable at this convention, which I keep thinking of as "The Trump Show." We saw him on stage last night. We're going to see him by video tonight. Probably on Wednesday. Definitely on Thursday. It would make sense for him to maybe make lemonade out of lemons in this situation, but we'll see what he does this morning.

CUOMO: Cribbing language from a speech, so what? When a candidate does it, so what? You deny it.

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Now you have a story. You then you deny what you say about Governor Kasich when there's a quote in the paper of you saying it.

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Now you've got something else. You deny that Donald Trump essentially was on TV with Fox when Pat Smith -

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: The mother of one of the four Americans who was lost at Benghazi -

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Was murdered there. Now you have something else, don't you?

SHERMAN: You know, I think the damage is that this convention was supposed to show that Donald Trump was building a real campaign, an infrastructure. And once again we're plunged into chaos and controversy about these shoestring mistakes that seem so avoidable. I mean you run a speech through Google, you would have found if these sentences were copied. There was no reason for this scandal to happen and yet it seems that Donald Trump, from the people I've talked to, doesn't have the staff and the infrastructure to really just do professional things that you could avoid.

STELTER: At the same time, let's be honest, no one's going to change their vote in November based on the events this morning, right? I mean isn't that the reality of this election? In some ways we're in a post truth election, as some commentator said months ago.

CUOMO: Post truth.

SHERMAN: That's scary.

STELTER: I know it's depressing to say, but it is true.

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: Many people do not register the reality of what's happening in this situation because they've made their mind up and because they're voting based on emotion.

CUOMO: Is that what it is?

STELTER: Most of last night was about emotion.

CUOMO: Oh, certainly.

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: And it was about the emotions of crime and terror in this country.

CUOMO: Certainly. Certainly.

STELTER: Melania's speech was more positive. It was more optimistic and uplifting.

SHERMAN: And it's overshadowed now.

STELTER: And yet that's been overshadowed.

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Absolutely. She gave a good speech. It was helpful. The response, I think though, Brian, has to be somewhat hurtful because listen to what the assumption is by you, Gabe. You say, well, this is what we does. He doubles down.

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: But let's examine that for a second. I present you with a fact. You did this.

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: We're saying, well, his strategy is to say, no, I didn't. That's an odd thing to have as a prominent trait when your campaign is -

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: Don't vote for Clinton, she lies.

SHERMAN: Of course, but look at the "60 Minutes" interview where Lesley Stahl confronted him on Pence's Iraq War vote. He said, I don't care. This was a signature issue that Trump was like, I was against the Iraq War -

CUOMO: But he didn't lie.

SHERMAN: But he - but he threw -

CUOMO: But it's not him (INAUDIBLE) confronted with the fact that -

SHERMAN: No.

CUOMO: Mike Pence was for the war and he said, no, he wasn't.

SHERMAN: Yes. Sure.

CUOMO: That's what's going on right now with this Melania situation.

SHERMAN: Yes. But, again, I just think his strategy is you don't - you don't back down and his supporters will think the media is biased. It's like -

STELTER: Yes, journalists read this story differently than others.

SHERMAN: Yes. Exactly.

STELTER: We're used to this story. We know what plagiarism means, right? Some of us have been plagiarized.

SHERMAN: Yes. STELTER: We've had our words taken and reused. Most people don't have that experience, don't know what it's like, and I don't think care as much about plagiarism as journalists do.

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: This might be a case of media leafs (ph) being disconnected.

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: By the way, I'm not saying it should be disconnected.

CUOMO: It's not plagiarism, it's lying about what happened -

SHERMAN: Yes. Right, and here's the issue that I think - that I was thinking about this morning, that the liberals in Hillary's camp have to tread carefully, because if they aggressively go after Melania and Trump on this issue -

[08:55:07] CUOMO: I don't think they will.

SHERMAN: They will be seen as bullying (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: I don't think it's about Melania. Although I still think we'll have a little - we'll have a little wager about whether or not she comes out to defend herself, because I think she is her best defense.

Let me ask you something. "New York Magazine," you wrote about Roger Ailes.

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: There's - the reports bubbling around that Murdoch had said something to the effect of, maybe we'll let him go. Roger Ailes currently caught up in this embrolio (ph) with -

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: One-time anchor Margaret Carlson. She's making harassment claims. What do you think?

SHERMAN: This is, you know, as Brian and I have been covering this, is a huge story in media. Roger Ailes has been the dominate force at Fox News for basically 20 years now. And the Murdoch family is not -

CUOMO: Made it what it is.

SHERMAN: Made it what it is and the Murdoch family has decided that he needs to go. The debate now is how -

CUOMO: You believe that?

SHERMAN: Yes, I believe that 100 percent.

CUOMO: And the debate is what?

STELTER: He's a GOP king-maker -

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: And he's a television legend.

SHERMAN: During the Republican Convention -

STELTER: And he was brought down by this. After 20 years at Fox, brought down by these sexual harassment allegations from Carlson, but also from other women who are coming forward anonymously who would like to speak to these investors. That would be a stunning development.

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: I do think it is within the realm of possibility. Clearly the Murdochs are considering replacing him. Gabe, you're saying they've made the decision already to actually do it.

SHERMAN: Basically it's about timing and the rollout. The press release hasn't gone out, but they've - they are now saying, you have to go. We need to figure out a way to ease you aside.

CUOMO: Very damning -

SHERMAN: Yes.

CUOMO: To force him out or whatever phrase you want to come up with while these allegations are in the air.

SHERMAN: Yes.

STELTER: Right.

CUOMO: Because, you know, it tacitly gives substance to it all.

SHERMAN: It raises the questions, though, the lawyers from the law firm Paul Weiss (ph), who have been investigating this, it makes you wonder what else are they finding for the Murdochs to move this quickly.

STELTER: And we don't know.

SHERMAN: We don't know.

CUOMO: Brian, Gabe, thank you very much.

SHERMAN: Thank you.

CUOMO: Feel better soon. It's a tough business.

SHERMAN: Thank you.

CUOMO: "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello picks up right after the break. Stay with CNN.

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