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Donald Trump Changing Positions on Illegal Immigration Examined; Interview with Congressman Steve King; Trump Digs In On Bigotry Claim About Clinton. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 26, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:05:00] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is no path to legalization.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You're talking about --

TRUMP: Unless people leave the country, when they come back in, if they come back in, then they can start paying taxes.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump struggling to clarify his immigration stance, now telling CNN's Anderson Cooper he is ruling out a pathway to legal status for undocumented immigrants in the United States.

TRUMP: There is no path to legalization unless they leave the country and come back.

COOPER: This, after indicating earlier this week that he was open to the idea.

TRUMP: They'll pay back taxes. They have to pay taxes. There is no amnesty as such. There is no amnesty. But we work with them.

CARROLL: Trump, sending mixed messages.

TRUMP: There certainly can be a softening, because we're not looking to hurt people.

I don't think it is a softening. I think it's --

COOPER: But 11 million people are no longer going to be deported.

TRUMP: I've had people say it is a hardening, actually.

COOPER: But 11 million who have not committed a crime --

TRUMP: You know it is a process, you can't take 11 million at one time and say boom, you're gone.

CARROLL: Some Trump supporters insisting the candidate cannot flip- flop on his central campaign issue. Sarah Palin warning in the "Wall Street Journal" there would be massive disappointment if Trump were to go down a path of wishy-washy positions. His reversal also provoking criticism from former rivals.

JEB BUSH, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All the things Donald Trump railed against he seems to be morphing into. It's kind of disturbing.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you.

CARROLL: This as Hillary Clinton launches a blistering takedown of Trump.

CLINTON: From the start, Donald Trump has built his campaign on prejudice and paranoia. He is taking hate groups mainstream and helping a radical fringe take over the Republican Party.

CARROLL: Clinton accusing the Trump campaign of merging with the alt- right, a movement linked to white nationalists.

CLINTON: A man with a long history of racial discrimination, who traffics in dark conspiracy theories drawn from the pages of supermarket tabloids and the far dark reaches of the Internet, should never run our government or command our military.

CARROLL: Trump defending his campaign, accusing Democrats of what he calls their oldest play in their playbook.

TRUMP: When Democratic policies fail, they are left with only this one tired argument -- you're racist. You're racist. You're racist.

CARROLL: Trump also disavowing support from hate groups.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want white supremacists to vote for you?

TRUMP: No, I don't, at all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And, Chris, Trump says the vast majority of his supporters are not racist. He says there is no alt-right or alt-left. He says his campaign is really about common sense. He also says that his campaign is one about love, love of country. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Jason, thank you very much. Let's bring in Iowa Congressman Steve King. He has endorsed Donald Trump, cares deeply about immigration, is a hardliner. Congressman, good to have you on NEW DAY as always. I see you are seated this morning. Is that because Trump knocked you off your feet by shifting on this issue?

(LAUGHTER)

REP. STEVE KING, (R) IOWA: I'm just reclining on my couch this morning and deliberating on the things that have unfolded over the last couple of days on this topic, Chris. And I'm happy to be on this morning on NEW DAY.

CUOMO: So give us some clarity. What is the concern from hardline conservatives like yourself? This was the defining issue. He beat Ted Cruz, who you supported before Trump, over the head with this issue. Rubio, Bush, he beat them as weak, saying that you must get rid of all of 11 million. I will do that. I will face this monster. I will put together a taskforce. And now he says we'll work with them. Does it concern you?

KING: Well, when I first heard this, when he said there certainly could be a softening, that was a shift in a direction that concerned me. There was some language that indicated even more strongly when he indicated that there might be some people that would be allowed to stay.

But as I heard the interview with Anderson Cooper that came on just a little bit ago, he said there wouldn't be a legalization. And so I'm happy to hear that. My concern is the tone, but the very base of Donald Trump, the core of his base are the people that say we must restore the respect for the rule of law and force and secure our borders. And Donald Trump has pounded that drum for a year and a half. And so I'm starting to see him restore that foundation again. I'm glad to hear that. I want to help him reinforce that position.

CUOMO: I definitely heard him say softening, and then he said no, I'm actually hardening. But when he talks about the specifics in any way, he seems to be stuck in the middle. Let's play a little bit of sound and get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[08:05:06] COOPER: If you hadn't committed crime and you've been here for 15 years and you have family here, you have job here, will you be deported?

TRUMP: We're going to see what happens once we strengthen up the border. But there is a very good chance the answer could be yes. We'll see what happens. Before I do anything, I want to get rid of the bad one, and there are a lot of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Everybody wants to get rid of the criminals who are here illegally. That's never been a subject of much dispute. But, the "see what happens" that's not the Steve King position.

KING: Well, it is not, certainly not exactly the Steve King position. But I would say this. Those who are here illegally, those illegal immigrants, those who cross the border illegally, committed the crime, they are criminals. It is a crime to unlawfully enter America.

There is another 40 percent of them that overstayed their visa. That's a serious misdemeanor. But any of them that worked in America, odds are they committed document fraud, they stole somebody or borrowed somebody else's or bought somebody else's identity, those are crimes too. So that universe of people who have been here for a long time that haven't committed a crime and are otherwise law abiding, there isn't much of that universe. CUOMO: The way you define it is if you come here a are documented,

you are de facto illegal and therefore the entire population would have to go, and that's your position. He seems to be moving off it. That's a political concern.

But let's talk policy for a second, congressman. Why isn't his position now the better one? Everybody wants to be more reasonable on this issue as you start to get towards the top of the parties. You haven't been. You've wanted to be more hardline. But are you reconsidering that now that you see your nominee reconsidering it, and maybe you should be more open to being more humane, as some would suggest, in dealing with people who are here undocumented.

KING: I'm not changing my position. In fact, I'll push back on this if there happens to be an effort to try to reward people for breaking the law. I don't think my position is hardline. I think it is prudent. It's prudent to insist on enforcing the law and applying the law.

We cannot restore the respect for the rule of law, which is the very center of the immigration position, the importance of this, we can't do that if we reward lawbreakers. So that principle, if you say my heart is soft and I want to help people that I like and I feel compassion for them, if you do that, you're eroding the rule of law. So let's stick with that principle.

I think also, though, that as we go down through this, we enforce the law, we remove the people that are the worst ones, and that will keep us busy for a long time. And as we work our way through this, there will be people lost in the shadows, as others say, years down the road, and it doesn't trouble me if they live in the shadows and we don't find them, if they're not running contrary to the law. That's what they came here to do apparently was to live in the shadows. That's out on the distance of this thing, perhaps in a second Trump term, but not in the first one.

CUOMO: As you know, as you studied this issue, I would assume, many people are coming here because they want jobs and a better life, not to live in the shadows. They're forced to live in the shadows because of the way the system currently plays.

You used the word "prudent" and "imprudent." One could argue that Trump's move on this issue is not prudent politically but practically. You can't roundup 11 million people. You should be looking to invite people who want to share in the American dream a way to come in. Maybe not as citizens because they entered illegally, but get the tax rolls, stop just providing services to people that in many cases people don't wind up paying in, because people of your political disposition don't want to make any allowances for them. Trump is saying get them paying tax, get them integrated into the system. Work with them. Will you consider those options?

KING: I won't consider legalizing people who are here illegally within the United States of America. There is nothing that prevents them from going home and applying to come back into the United States legally. That is what Trump is saying. But I'm not going to be supporting the legalization of people that are here unlawfully, because that is amnesty. And to grant amnesty is to --

CUOMO: He says it is not amnesty. He says no amnesty, but they should be paying taxes. We will work with them. But it is not amnesty. So maybe you have disagreement with him on the definition of "amnesty."

KING: Well, I have. If that's his definition of amnesty, and Karl Rove and I have had this disagreement that goes back to at least 2004. I said to him then and I continue to say you cannot redefine amnesty to accommodate for amnesty. You must stick with the definition of amnesty that is legitimate, and that is that we can't be pardoning immigration lawbreakers. In addition to that we can't be rewarding them with the objective of their violation. If their objective is to live in America in peace and work and raise their family, that's a reward for violating the law. If we do that, we've granted amnesty.

[08:10:00] It was a mistake for Ronald Reagan in 1986. We've been working to restore the rule of law ever since then. We've lost a lot of ground in the Barack Obama administration. We must restore is in the next administration. We can do so compassionately, and we can respect the dignity of every human person, and I believe in doing that.

And people come here to this country illegally, they expect to live in the shadows. And we should incorporating local law enforcement to enforce our immigration law. When people violate laws out in the streets of America, whatever the reason is that we encounter them, then we need it apply the law to them. If we never encounter them out on the streets of America, then chances are that's the filter that allows for law-abiding people to continue beyond here in America.

CUOMO: It will be interesting --

KING: But not with a legal status.

CUOMO: It will be interesting if Donald Trump --

KING: It will be interesting.

CUOMO: -- if Donald Trump continues to suggest that he'll work with people here illegally, get them on tax rolls, see what happens if they have kids and families and been here a long time, whether you will continue to endorse him, because that will certainly not be your position.

But Steve King, thank you for weighing in early on here. We'll follow it together.

KING: Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it.

CUOMO: Be well. Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris, now to the latest on the earthquake in central Italy. The death toll has jumped to 267 people. The hard hit town of Amatrice still experiencing strong aftershocks as rescue crews continue to search for survivors. There was this glimmer of good news right here, this eight-year-old girl whose rescue was caught on camera. She has undergone surgery, and she is reportedly doing well. Sadly, Italian media reports that her 10-year-old sister was killed.

CUOMO: A man is in police custody after breaching security at a Nebraska airport. Police say the suspect stole a truck on the runway, then rammed the truck into a Southwest plane loading for takeoff. They say several crews members suffered minor injuries, the flight was delayed three hours, and the plane was taken out of rotation for inspection. No word yet on the obvious question, why did he do this?

CAMEROTA: Authorities in Rio charging Ryan Lochte, the embattled U.S. swimmer, with filing a false robbery report. Police say Lochte made up the story about being held at gun point after he allegedly vandalized a gas station bathroom. Lochte, who is now back in the U.S., has apologized for quote, "over-exaggerating."

CUOMO: Late night laughs, comedian Jimmy Fallon posing as Donald Trump in a hilarious duet with legendary singer Barbra Streisand. Which one outdid the other? Take a look for yourself. I'm laughing because I already saw it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, here to perform a special duet, please welcome Barbara Streisand and Donald Trump.

BARBRA STREISAND, SINGER: Everything I can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you.

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": No, you can't.

STREISAND: Yes, I can.

(LAUGHTER)

STREISAND: Yes, I can, yes, I can, yes, I can.

(APPLAUSE)

FALLON: Any wall you can build, I can build taller. I can better any wall taller than you.

STREISAND: No, you can't.

FALLON: Yes, I can.

STREISAND: No, you can't.

FALLON: Yeah-huh.

STREISAND: No, you can't.

FALLON: Yes, I can, and I'm going to get Mexico to pay for it.

(APPLAUSE) (END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: I'm going to start using that more with you, "Yeah-huh."

CUOMO: First of all, the genius of being able to sing while doing the mockery.

CAMEROTA: That is Jimmy Fallon's great talent.

CUOMO: It's nice to see Barbra Streisand out there.

CAMEROTA: I know, so unusual. That was great.

Well, back to reality. Both Trump and Clinton using charges of racism in their latest attacks against each other. What do voters think about this? We debate it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:21] CUOMO: All right. So, why is Donald Trump moving on a signature issue? To appeal to a demographic often referred to as college-educated whites. Why? Well, they are assumed to have been troubled by his harsh words about immigrants and others. So, changing the stance may expand his appeal.

But does he erase any chance of progress by calling Clinton a bigot? He says he's just returning fire from Clinton. Here he is trying to justify the attack in an interview with Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: You called last night Hillary Clinton a bigot. Previously, you called her policies bigoted. You directly called her a bigot.

TRUMP: She is a bigot, because when you look at what's happening to the inner cities and you look at what's happening to African-Americans and Hispanics in this country where she talks all of the time, she's talking -- look at the vets, where she said the vets are being treated essentially just fine, that it's over exaggerated what's happening to the vets not so long ago.

COOPER: How is she bigoted? Bigoted is having hatred toward a particular group.

TRUMP: She's selling them down the tubes, because she's not doing anything for those communities. She talks a good game.

COOPER: So she has hatred or dislike of black people?

TRUMP: Her policies are bigoted -- her policies are bigoted because she knows they're not going to work.

COOPER: But you're saying she's personally bigoted. TRUMP: She is. Of course, she is. Her policies and she comes up

with the policies, and others that believe like she does also, like she came out with policies over the years. This is over the years, a long time.

She's totally bigoted. There's no question about that.

Look at what --

COOPER: But it does imply that she doesn't -- she has antipathy, she has hatred toward --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: I think she -- I think she is extremely, extremely bad for African-Americans. I think she's been extremely bad for Hispanics. You look at what's happened with her policies and the policies of President Obama and others. Look at the poverty. Look at the rise in poverty. Look at the rise in violence.

COOPER: But hatred is at the core of that or dislike of African- Americans?

TRUMP: Well -- or maybe she's lazy. I don't know what it is. I've been hearing the same thing from her and others for years. The inner cities are today are worse than they ever have been --

COOPER: Have you always thought she was bigoted?

TRUMP: Honestly, I've never thought of it. I never thought. As a businessperson, I got along with all politicians.

COOPER: She has story of working with African-Americans --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Anderson, as you know, working but not doing the job. And I'm now bringing it out for the first time. She hasn't done the job.

COOPER: So Hillary Clinton is now coming at you with, I talked to her last night. She called into my show. She said that you are bringing hate mainstream by embracing the so-called alt-right movement, that you're peddling bigotry, prejudice and paranoia.

TRUMP: Well, first of all, we're bringing love. You see these rooms are packed with people left behind, I call it the forgotten men and women. They've been left behind, Anderson, by people like her, who are third rate politicians who talk and they don't produce.

[08:20:04] You look at our inner cities. Our inner cities are a disaster, the African-American people are realizing that the Democrats who have run these inner cities for 75 years, 100 years, they've left them.

COOPER: Are you embracing the alt-right movement, though, of Steve Bannon? TRUMP: I don't even. Nobody even knows what it is. This is a term that was given that frankly there is no alt-right or alt-left. All I'm embracing is common sense.

COOPER: Well, Steve Bannon did say Breitbart is sort of the voice of the alt-right.

TRUMP: I don't know what Steve said. All I can tell you, I can only speak for myself.

You see the crowds we have. You see the enthusiasm, these are great people. These are people that have not been heard for many years. Now, they've been heard, first time in many, many decades. In fact, some people say the first time, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, we have a lot to talk about this morning. Let's bring in CNN political commentator and former member of the South Carolina House of Representatives, Bakari Sellers. He supports Hillary Clinton. And CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Kaleigh McEnany.

Great to have both of you.

So, Kaleigh, let's talk about this new strategy of Donald Trump, where he is calling Hillary Clinton a bigot. What is that based on?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, I want to point out why we're so concerned why Donald Trump calling her a bigot, when Hillary Clinton devoted an entire hour to leveling false accusations and calling my candidate a racist. Not only that, Cher, at a Hillary Clinton fund-raiser, compared Donald to Hitler, and Stalin. This campaign has compared him to a maniacal dictator who killed millions and millions of Jews.

So, before, you know, we are so concerned about Donald Trump leveling a bigot charge, I think we should ask for Hillary Clinton to apologize and say that Cher's comments were irresponsible. It's inexcusable. He's not that.

CAMEROTA: The rhetoric on both sides has been ginned up, obviously, the most incendiary, people could argue ever. But there doesn't seem to be any notion of ratcheting it back.

MCENANY: That is the worst charge I think that's been leveled in this entire campaign, to compare someone to Hitler, which by the way, the left did to Ronald Reagan. "Esquire Magazine" said if you voted for Ronald Reagan, you were like the good German voting in Hitler's Germany.

It didn't work then. This is what the left always tries to do. They try to demonize the right. It is not going to work now.

CAMEROTA: Isn't Donald Trump taking a page from that? I mean, if it's wrong, calling somebody a bigot, also certainly an incendiary charge?

MCENANY: I don't think so, because for eight months, he's been called a racist. So, to return fire and call her a bigot, which to me is much milder than calling someone a racist I think is completely fair.

CAMEROTA: Bakari, your thoughts?

BAKARI SELLERS, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, I think one of the things we have to look at yesterday from Hillary Clinton's speech, which Kaleigh and many others don't want to recognize, is that Hillary Clinton only used Donald Trump's own actions and words against him. When you talk about Donald Trump's record, when you talk about his interactions with African-Americans, whether or not it was housing discrimination, the Central Park Five, the list goes on and on and on, the birther movement.

When you talk about him embracing had alt-right movement that all of a sudden it reminded me of his David Duke comment, where he refused to disavow David Duke on three different times. Now, he doesn't know what the alt-right movement is, but he has hired the chairperson of Breitbart, or the president and CEO to be his chairperson of his campaign who has embraced that.

MCENANY: Bakari, we could do the same --

SELLERS: All of these things in totality show that Donald Trump has a very, very sordid past with the African-Americans.

MCENANY: No, Bakari, we could sit here and do the same to your candidate. We could talk about her embracing Robert Byrd, who is a KKK grand dragon, excuse me, we could talk Bill Clinton golfing at an all white golf course and being excoriated by the NAACP. We could talk about Bill Clinton saying, hey, a few years ago, Barack Obama would have been getting me coffee.

We could go on and on and on, the super predator terms. But we're not sinking to that gutter politics level. I understand your campaign is. I refuse to do that.

CAMEROTA: Hold on a second, Kaleigh, because obviously, both campaigns are using highly inflammatory language and imaginary. In fact, Donald Trump, just, hold on a second, just put out a web ad, a web video just this hour. We've gotten ahold of it, where they try to use Hillary Clinton's words against her. So listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: They are often the kinds of kids that are called super predators. No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way. But first, we have to bring them to heal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You called out President Clinton for defending Secretary Clinton's use of the term super predator back in the '90s when she supported the crime bill. Why did you call him out?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Because it was a racist term and everybody knew it was a racist term.

CLINTON: No conscience.

It is a well-thought out crime bill that is both smart and tough. No empathy.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please explain it for the record.

SANDERS: Because it was a racist term and everybody knew it was a racist term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Bakari, let me start with you. I mean, that's Hillary Clinton in her some people obviously interpreted as racist terms. What do you think of that line of attack?

SELLERS: Oh, no, we have already re-litigated this throughout the Democratic primary. I don't think anybody thinks this is new. This is an issue that I took up with Hillary Clinton. This is an issue that many African-Americans took up with Hillary Clinton.

And not just Hillary Clinton, but Bernie Sanders as well, because he voted for it.

[08:25:04] And not just Bernie Sanders, but the Congressional Black Caucus, because many of them voted for it.

So, yes, when you talk about the 1994 crime bill, we've had a great issue with this and a great deal of trouble because of its unintended consequences. That's why we're having this robust discussion about criminal justice reform.

The term "super predator" is term that had no place in the rhetoric then and it had not place on the rhetoric now. The difference between the two candidates, though, Alisyn, the difference between the two candidates, Kaleigh, is that, you know, Hillary Clinton embraced that. She owned it and said I apologize. I used it once. I will never use it again.

Donald Trump's racist rhetoric, Donald Trump's racist actions, he has never apologized to the Central Park Five. He has never apologized for discrimination. He has never apologized to the president of the United States. And he's never given us a plan to untangle this mass incarceration.

So, it's a cute web ad. But if he wants to start talking to African- Americans, he needs to come up with a policy point.

CAMEROTA: How about that, Kayleigh?

MCENANY: Donald --

CAMEROTA: Hillary Clinton has apologized using the term super predator.

MCENANY: Well, Donald Trump has never discriminated, so he is not going to apologize for something he did, first of all.

CAMEROTA: There were records of him having discriminatory practices at his apartments back decades ago.

MCENANY: That was never proven in a court of law. It was settled without admission of liability. Never settled in a court of law.

By contrast, to contrast the two campaign strategies here, you have Donald Trump putting out an ad that is Hillary Clinton in her own words, re-litigating something that was very hurtful to the African- American community, versus Hillary Clinton putting out false ads, pictures of KKK leaders, suggesting Donald Trump is involved in that putting that on her website. You have Cher comparing him to Hitler and Stalin and Hillary Clinton just tacitly going along with it and not apologizing.

Your campaign is sinking into the gutter, and it's responsible for the level that we are at now, which is very, very low and very sad for the level of discourse.

CAMEROTA: Bakari, your response.

SELLERS: I just laugh at it. All of a sudden, Donald Trump has individuals who support him, trying to contort themselves in many different directions as he is making this, all of a sudden, brand new outreach to African-Americans and minorities. If Donald Trump really loved us, African-Americans and Hispanics, we wouldn't be having this conversation 74 days from the election. He would have actually begun to talk with African-Americans and Hispanics at the beginning of his campaign. He wouldn't have been bastardizing us. He wouldn't have been demonizing us. He wouldn't actually know how to communicate with people of color.

My schools aren't poor. You know, many of the people I know have jobs. Not enough of us do. We don't walk down the street and say we're going to get shot in our own communities. That's not the America we know. So, if Donald Trump really loved us, he would know how to talk to us.

CAMEROTA: This is a tough conversation we will continue to have. We appreciate you both debating it this morning.

Kayleigh, Bakari, thank you very much.

MCENANY: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. He has worked closely with President George W. Bush, but James Glassman is refusing to vote for Donald Trump. Why? He has a case against the GOP presidential candidate. He says that it is not just about Trump. It's about what he is going to do to his party. We talk to him live, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)