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Limousine Crash in New York Causes Fatalities; President Trump Holding Numerous Campaign Rallies ahead of Midterm Elections; First Lady Melania Trump Returns to U.S. from Africa Trip. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 08, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Two pedestrians were also killed in that crash. Investigators at this point trying to determine the cause of the accident. CNN's Polo Sandoval is live near the scene in Schoharie, New York, with the latest for us. Polo?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erica let me tell you, just north of here there is an overwhelming sense of grief in Amsterdam, New York. That is because the region was home to, perhaps, most of the victims, most of the people who were traveling in that limousine or at least have connections to that area. So speaking to city officials there, they tell me that they are now preparing for a candlelight vigil that's going to take place tonight, because when you look at these numbers it really is horrific. Twenty people's lives cut short just feet from where I'm standing. At this point we're told that this limousine was -- that there was a group of friends traveling in that limousine that blew that stop sign, then plowed through the driveway of a country store and then eventually crashed in the ditch that you see behind me. Investigators are now trying to find out if there was anything wrong with the driver or perhaps the vehicle itself while families are mourning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VALERIE ABELING, NIECE KILLED IN LIMO CRASH: Their first vehicle they were in broke down, so I don't know if the company sent another vehicle. I'm imagining that's what happened. And this one was just as bad as the first one. My niece said before she got in the vehicle, she texted a friend of hers and said oh, my gosh, you wouldn't believe what they just sent. And she says that this vehicle is a little sketchy, because it made a lot of noise. It didn't look good. She says I don't know if we're going to survive this. And 20 minutes later, she died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: You jst heard from the aunt of Erin Vertucci, traveling in that limousine with her husband, recent newlyweds. Her husband's name, Shane McGowan. The list of the victims continues to grow as officials and also family members confirm their identifies. There's Rick Steenberg, Axel Steenberg, who was traveling with his wife. His wife's name is Amy, as well as her three sisters. So clearly we are getting just a better idea of who was in that limousine and more and more, Erica, John, it seems that these were young couples who had their future ahead of them. The ironic tragedy here, they were presumably doing the right thing as they were out celebrating a 30th birthday, hiring a driver as they were headed to a nearby brewery.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Polo Sandoval for us in Schoharie, New York. Obviously so many questions. And we talked to a little while ago about the hole in regulation that exists for this type of vehicle.

HILL: It was a surprise to me and certainly I think a number of people that there is so little regulation there, and also just heartbreaking, as Polo pointed out, as you learn more about these stories. And you spoke with the assemblyman from that area, how tightknit this community is, a group of 18, 19 friends. It's a lot.

BERMAN: Other news this morning, newly minted Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh begins his first week on the high court after the bruising confirmation battle. President Trump and the Republicans, what they are doing about is they're taking a victory lap. They're casting Democrats as an angry mob. They are trying to rally Republicans voters before the midterm elections, which are just 29 days away, look at that, 29 days away.

Joining us now, CNN political analyst, White House correspondent for the "New York Times" Maggie Haberman. I get the sense, Maggie, that what the White House is trying to do is say Trump-Kavanaugh 2018 for the next 29 days.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Something like that. Look, they're trying to -- people around the president who my colleague Jeremy Peters and I spoke with described what happened with Kavanaugh and the efforts around Kavanaugh as almost a dress rehearsal for an impeachment proceeding that Donald Trump could face if the House flips. Whether that is a hyperbole or not people can decide for themselves, but that is certainly the mantra that they are going to use to get their voters engaged. Their voters, Republican voters had not been quite as engaged or enthusiastic as Democrats.

There was, according to some pollsters I spoke to, some uptick last weekend before Kavanaugh was sworn in. I think the challenge is how do you maintain that? Anger is a great fuel for elections. It's hard to be angry when you've won and they won the Kavanaugh fight. So it's going to remain to be seen if they can keep this going, but I think that Trump is betting that with his megaphone and on these rallies, he's going to at least be able to call attention to things that they want to use to try to excite their own voters, such as Democratic protests, such as people criticizing members, Senate members, in very caustic terms, a lot of what we saw over the last week.

HILL: And it's remarkable how quickly, too, they have come together. Just on Sunday, the use of the word mob was -- I mean, everyone is on it. The messaging got out there. The question, too, though, is, to your point, can you sustain that anger for 29 days?

HABERMAN: It's going to be really hard. Midterm election for the party in power usually does not go well historically, right? When you have the presidency, it is not typical that you are going to increase your margins.

[08:05:02] That said, it might not be quite as dramatic a blue wave as some Democratic strategists are anticipating. There definitely is more of I think a level of engagement among Republican voters than there had been.

It's interesting, I spent the week watching President Trump on the stump last week. And he's got some version of the same speech. And it is a version of Democrats are going to undo every single thing that I did, except it is in very dramatic terms. The money in your 401(k) is going to disappear, everything is going to be terrible. It will be cataclysmically bad if Democrats get control and they will undo everything I did.

I think he's going to need, and I think he knows it, some kind of different message to keep people engaged. It was clearly not -- the crowd in Minnesota the other night was not responding, certainly, the way that crowds in the south had earlier in the week. And you could see him kind of changing the repertoire to find which line was going to connect. He has got, I think, four rallies a week, or something like that, at least planned up until Election Day. I don't know how you sustain that level of engagement if you're giving the same speech over and over.

BERMAN: He's flying down to Orlando today where he's actually going to speak to the associations of the chiefs of police. On that plane with him will be deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein. So, A, he still works in the administration. Can you clarify this?

(LAUGHTER)

HABERMAN: Thank you for clarifying. It would be great if, no, actually he's just a guest. Yes, he still works in the administration.

BERMAN: And we believe he will continue to work in the administration.

HABERMAN: At least until midterms, sure.

BERMAN: And we believe that they're going to talk about what on the airplane, exactly?

HABERMAN: First of all, they're not going to be alone on the airplane, right. The president has a cabin. He could get a little office. He could get rid of other staff members. But I don't think they're going to be having a deep tete-a-tete, but maybe this will end up qualifying as the meeting they didn't have. This is a meeting, remember, the meeting they were supposed to have that got put off repeatedly, this was a meeting that Rod Rosenstein sought with the president that the president, according to everyone I spoke with, was not that excited about because the president does not really like one- on-one interpersonal conflict. The president did not want to have his hand forced on having to fire Rosenstein. He knows it's a problem.

And so Rosenstein essentially created this situation where it would be very hard for the president to do that. I think the president would like to muddle along until November 6th, and I think that Rosenstein is aware that he's probably not long for that job anyway. BERMAN: Maybe he wants to get a ride on Air Force One while he still

can.

HABERMAN: Sure. And there is that, too. It's a special trip.

BERMAN: He won't record the conversation, I'm betting, this time, Rod Rosenstein. I'm making light of this. Obviously people know, for people who haven't been paying attention every second of every day, "The New York Times" story that came out that said that Rod Rosenstein discussed invoking the 25th Amendment, talked about maybe wearing a wire --

HABERMAN: After James Comey had been fired.

HILL: Which, by the way, feels like a lifetime ago.

HABERMAN: How long was it, three weeks ago?

HILL: I don't even think it was a month. So there's that.

The first lady is back in Washington after her trip to Africa, and a statement -- do we have that statement? Can we put it up there? "The first lady from the White House did a tremendous job representing in Africa, like no one has before. She got to know firsthand the people of Africa. They loved and respected her everywhere she went. Melania told me about her trip in great detail and I'm so proud of the job she's doing on behalf of children everywhere. She works so hard and does it all out of love." The phrasing sounds a lot like the president.

HABERMAN: I have no doubt that he wrote that statement and probably dictated it.

HILL: But listen, the trip, yes, she did pretty well. But there were also a lot of questions. She came out at one point and said I wish people would just focus on the work that I'm doing and not what I'm wearing, which on one level you get, you fully understand. But at the same time, at least one hat that she wore did cause a bit of controversy because it's a pith helmet, and because of everything that she represents.

HABERMAN: Right. I think that controversy actually did not get, I think, as much attention as it might have otherwise. And I'm using the word "controversy" loosely there. I don't think it actually developed into a controversy. I think that that issue could have developed into something else, but I think would have been more Internet based.

I have to tell you again, the degree to which something like that, I think, is not sinking in to people's consciousness, I think people are not paying that much attention to it, certainly as we approach an election. I do think that she had a pretty successful trip. I think that for what she was trying to achieve, I think there was a measure of independence and she was making clear the ways she is not like her husband just by being there in and of itself. Remember, there was a controversy about a word that the president had used to describe poorer nations like the kinds she was visiting.

There are always going to be questions about what kinds of statements she's making with her clothes. To your point, I think she has not always finely attuned to how things will be perceived on a political stage and has seemed surprised by it, and she shouldn't be at this point.

HILL: Is part of that, too, a lack of -- she's a very smart woman, right? And she's surrounded herself with smart people. But it's amazing, too, that all of this gets there and she puts the hat on without somebody saying, you know what, this is not going to look good?

[08:10:09] HABERMAN: I don't think she does a whole lot of vetting of that kind of thing with her staff. She does have a pretty good staff around her. My colleague, Katie Rogers, had a piece today about how Melania Trump showed the ways in which she is and is not like her husband. And in that way where she decides she's just going to do something and she's not going to be talked out of it, she is very much like her husband. And you will hear that over and over again.

BERMAN: When they say the first lady has a trip to Africa like no one has had before, terrific trip.

HABERMAN: It is literally like almost everybody has had before.

BERMAN: It is absurd. That is absolutely absurd. And I know, and we all know this because we've seen this before from President Trump, but George W. Bush and Laura Bush who worked so hard to fight AIDS and reduce the number of AIDS in Africa in astounding aids, the Clintons and what they've done in Africa over the years, President Obama and Michelle Obama, all their trips to Africa. Literally it is like everyone has done before in these trips to Africa, and that statement is, on its face, absurd. But we know it's the kind of the thing the president likes.

HABERMAN: He throws these superlatives in, he throws in hyperbole constantly into these statements. We have seen this for years now. He treats everything like it's some new branding exercise. And so --

HILL: And everything is a competition.

HABERMAN: But it's also like, it's in some weird way, I think, his way of complimenting his wife, and it's not going to make any sense to other people necessarily. But in some ways describing this as so fabulous, as a great thing is seen as some kind of tribute. It gets lost in terms of actual historical fact, which is that this is not -- there's nothing new about this trip other than that she was the one making it. But there was nothing new about how the trip went or the types of stops. Sure. But I think that in his mind is how it goes.

BERMAN: Don McGahn, Raj Shah, two people who have been at the White House for a while intimately involved with the Kavanaugh nominee. Are they done now that he's on the court? Are they done?

HABERMAN: It's interesting, I think Raj Shah is much likely to leave more quickly.

BERMAN: Like tomorrow?

HABERMAN: I don't know if it's tomorrow or whenever, but Raj Shah who has worked in the press shop for quite some time, most people in the White House praise the job that he did with this, said that he did a very good job of keeping it on message. Don McGahn obviously is the architect of all of this. So he is in a bit of a different role. He is also the White House counsel. And as of a couple of weeks ago, there had not been a decision made on exactly how to replace Don McGahn. Recall McGahn had made clear he was likely to leave after Kavanaugh. The president did a sort of you can't quit, I fire you, and put out a statement he would be leaving.

But I don't know if that means he is going to leave right now or he's going to leave right after the midterms. There have been discussions about the possibility of some kind of a co-White House counsel where you would have someone they've been interviewing serve along with Emmett Flood who has been handling the Mueller investigation. You could have all kinds of permutations on this. I don't think we're going to know yet. Remember, this is a White House that is very acutely aware that if the House flips they're going to be facing a flurry of subpoenas, and whoever is in that seat is going to be vital.

BERMAN: Very last question quickly, how is the investigation into who wrote the op-ed, the anonymous op-ed?

HABERMAN: I'm not part of that investigation, but they made a big display insisting there was not an investigation even though there certainly were a lot of cursory, at least, looks into it when it happened. I think that was done frankly more so they could tell the president that they were doing it. I think they would like to have that whole thing in their rearview mirror.

BERMAN: Maggie Haberman, great to have you with us this morning. It was an appearance like no one has ever made before.

HABERMAN: Except for the times I was here before.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Except for the last time, right.

HILL: We'll just focus on this one.

BERMAN: Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell seems to be moving the goal post, in fact, he is moving the goalposts when it comes to election year Supreme Court vacancies. Why is he doing that? Because he can. Being a hypocrite is not a concern for Mitch McConnell when it comes to the court. We'll discuss it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:00] BERMAN: So you might be shocked to learn that Senator Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, is now, all of a sudden, OK with the idea of the Senate confirming a Supreme Court nominee in a presidential election year.

Why is this so shocking? Well, if you remember, he had a tiny little issue of it when President Obama tried to nominate Merrick Garland. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, R-KY: You have to go back to 1880 to find the last time a senate controlled a different party from the president, confirmed a Supreme Court justice to a vacancy created in the middle of a presidential election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now to discuss, CNN political analyst, David Gregory, and CNN chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. So I can't be sure about this, but I think Mitch McConnell just told us he's going to do whatever the heck he wants when it comes to Supreme Court nominees.

JEFFERY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I think you can be sure about this. Yes, that's exactly what he said is that, you know, if - if the - Donald Trump has a Supreme Court vacancy, at any point, including with 24 hours to go in his presidency, Mitch McConnell will try to confirm a Supreme Court justice, not withstanding what happened with Barrack Obama and Merrick Garland.

This is his legacy, as a Senate leader, stopping democratic judicial nominees and pushing through Republican nominees.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: And I think it's important to note that he also knows there's a Republican base, a conservative base, that not just appreciates that issue, but will vote on this issue, which is why he does it and why he'll make no bones about whether he did one thing and he'll say another and do something else.

BERMAN: There's a word - there's a word that begins with H that I'm looking for here.

TOOBIN: I - I - I know - yes, hypocrisy. Yes, you're a smart guy. You know all those long words. But the - the thing that's interesting about this is that, the democrats for whatever reason, and this is an enduring mystery to me, have never been as motivated by judicial appointments, judicial conformations as Republicans have.

You know, Barrack Obama, Hilary Clinton, they basically forgot about Merrick Garland. I mean they would say he should've been confirmed, but that was not a cause -

GREGORY: And isn't it striking? You go back to Bork (ph). The activism, once the nomination is made, is there, but not when it comes to voting.

TOOBIN: Not when it comes to voting and not when it comes to the base of the party. I mean the base of the Democratic Party has never been motivated by judicial nomination. Now that - I mean things change, and certainly, the Kavanaugh experience has been motivating for a lot of people.

But let's see how long it lasts, and let's see if, in the Democratic Convention in 2020, judicial nominations in the Supreme Court comes up in a way that it didn't in 2016.

[08:20:00]

GREGORY: But one test is going to be whether they make good on Jerry Nadler, who would have the House Judiciary Committee had said he would pursue impeachment against Justice Kavanaugh, which could be - could certainly back fire against democrats if they were to that. But--F

TOOBIN: I think he said an investigation, I don't think he promised impeachment.

GREGORY: Fair enough.

TOOBIN: I - and, I - I did a piece for the New Yorker about impeachment and Jerry Nadler and Nancy Pelosi, and they are very aware of the republican's problem in 1998 of a failed impeachment being-

GREGORY: Which regarding to Trump, who they felt that--

TOOBIN: Right. I - I think they are going to be very aggressive about investigations in general--

GREGORY: Yes.

TOOBIN: Impeachments, I think they are going - before they have 67 vote sin the Senate, it's going to be a long--

BERMAN: Well, let's come back to that in just a second, I want to stick on Mitch McConnell (inaudible), because David, you said something interesting here which is that Mitch McConnell and the work that Jeffrey brought up.

I didn't bring it up is hypocrite, is being a bit of a hypocrite here in regards to a last year mid administration nominations of the Supreme Court, but he doesn't care. It doesn't matter to him.

What matters to him is on the bench, and I think you're absolutely correct is one of the reasons he doesn't care is because e knows that the voters who matter to him support him in this.

GREGORY: Look, this is also - this is war. And the war is for control the federal judiciary and of the Supreme Court. Democrats change the rule on federal judges to avoid the (inaudible) buster, republican took them one better.

I don't think there's any reason to believe that a democratic leader in a similar situation would not do what McConnell is threatening to do.

BERMAN: Not now.

GREGORY: Well, I don't know if ever. BERMAN: I mean, that'd be-

GREGORY: But the point is that he's got the power, he's going to use it unless there is some penalty for doing so.

BERMAN: Then why does he do it? The answer is because he can. And the strong do as they will and the weak suffer as they must, (inaudible) one of your favorite Greek historians wrote that.

Jeffrey, which is the issue of impeachment, because if the issue of what will the democrats do next is they'll do what they can if they take the House, they can investigate a Supreme Court Justice if they want, correct?

TOOBIN: They certainly can. In the 1950s, in the height of the war in court, you saw impeacher (inaudible) signs across the south after Brown being (inauidble) education. No Supreme Court Justice has ever been impeached and removed but the constitutional process is exactly the same.

I think realistically, a Senate that just confirmed Brett Kavanaugh is not going to impeach and remove him-

BERMAN: Well, they won't convict him. The House could convict him, the House has-

GREGORY: I think at least for now, not withstanding with some people in the base of the party say impeachment itself is really off the table-

BERMAN: But, that base of the party part David, do the democrats if they want to make this the issue that Jeffrey Toobin here tells us that has never been before for their voters if they want to electrify the base, do they need to deliver something of they take the House back?

GREGORY: Well, what they need to deliver - yes, I think there'd be a temptation to deliver. But I think they're going to use what that enthusiasm as what the results are as the critical data point.

I mean, I think the danger here is overreaching. If they want to go after the process, how it all went down, how people in the process were treated, that's one thing. But I just think it's going to be - they're going to run the risk of looking like they want to achieve change and power without being able to achieve it at the ballad box.

And that's why the midterms of this onboard-

BERMAN: One of the things that they're talking about, that Nancy Pelosi I talking about Jeffrey, is getting a hold of documents if they exist for the instructions that the White House gave the F.B.I. or the Senate gave the White House to give the F.B.I. here. Do you think we'll ever see that?

TOOBIN: We might, we might. I think there are complicated issues involving executive privilege and the confidentiality of internal executive branch deliberations. But those are not necessarily clear in their - how the outcome would work.

And if a democratic House to subpoena documents about how - the communications between the White House and the F.B.I. and the F.B.I. and the Senate about the investigation of Kavanaugh, especially this very brief investigation after Dr. Ford's testimony. Those could come out-

GREGORY: And I think that you ask about the deliverable on the part of democrats, I think it is the check on Trump that they want to be the check on Trump. And I think they'll even find support among independents and some republicans who think there should be a check on Trump.

And that's where at least the investigative arm could be in full operational mode if they don't get something like impeachment.

BERMAN: Think a little of the effort, they can't deliver a result in this case-

GREGORY: Right, right-

BERMAN: But they can deliver the effort.

GREGORY: But sometimes the effort may be seen (inauidble)-

TOOBIN: And I think what's particularly interesting if the democrats retake the House is what do they choose?

GREGORY: Right.

TOOBIN: Do they choose to subpoena the president's tax returns which they could do. Do they want to bring Michael Cohen say in for public testimony or Rod Rosenstein for public testimony?

[08:25:00]

I mean there - you know, there are lots of opinions and subpoena power which Democrats have lacked, is a powerful -

BERMAN: You know what's interesting? Is in questions of overreach - executive overreach and subpoena power. Who will ultimately get to decide whether or not the Congress can see what it wants to see if the White House refuses to give it to them?

TOOBIN: Mr. Kavanaugh, the fifth vote on the Supreme Court.

GREGORY: Which goes back to original point that I think is so important. Democrats want to make real gains. They are going to say to voters, "You care about this issue? You care about Dr. Ford was treated? You care about the change in the court? Then presidential elections matter, and you better get out there, and you better vote on this stuff," because you know, this is one area before the last couple of weeks when he - he went so overboard, where the president has been restrained, because you know people are saying to him, "Look, man. This is free money. These social conservatives are not for you, but if you pick the right guy for the court, then they will be for you because they'll vote on that issue."

And that's the one areas where, except for notable exceptions, recently, he has stepped back and let - let that process work.

BERMAN: But it's interesting. He's pushing more chips into the table, though, tonight. I mean he's having a public swearing in for Brett Kavanaugh. Brett Kavanaugh's going to be sworn in (ph) -

GREGORY: Yes.

BERMAN: - and he's been at these rallies using Brett Kavanaugh as a campaign issue. And I was talking to Maggie Abraham (ph) when we were in the last segment (ph). He's trying to make it Trump-Kavanaugh 2018 for the midterms, and there could be a risk there, everyday, showing Brett Kavanaugh to women voters who may be unhappy.

TOOBIN: But - but - but what has been interesting about the polling on Brett Kavanaugh which was originally somewhat favorable, it is - it is just gone on the same trajectory as every single in the Trump campaign - the Trump presidency, that there is about 40 percent that's in favor of the president, about 55 percent that's against him.

But any issue you ask about, whether it's the tax cut, whether it's the treatment of the kids at the border, whether it's the Russia investigation, all the polls wind up coming out just about the same way, 40, 55 against. And that's good enough for the president.

BERMAN: I just -

GREGORY: The other - can I just say.

BERMAN: Yes.

GREGORY: The other - the risk here is also for Kavanaugh. Justice Kavanaugh has a career on the Court to think about. He made a decision to be a - to go really hard partisan to survive. He's going to have a different view about who he wants to conduct himself on the bench for the next 30 years or so.

Being that close to Trump could be a real -

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: You know, just something to keep your eye on. There's a tradition at the Supreme Court with every new justice, that the chief justice walks him or her down the steps, the great front steps of the Supreme Court, and their photographs may become sort of the stock footage of that - of that justice.

Will this happen with Kavanaugh? Will they take the risk of that sort of public event, knowing the kind of reaction they may get from - from the public? I - I just wonder that canned shot (ph) which is, you know, you saw it with Gorsuch, (inaudible), Kagan, whether you'll see that with Kavanaugh.

BERMAN: Do you buy the idea of John Roberts, chief justice, as centrist in the court?

TOOBIN: Well, he is now the center of the court, he's no centrist. But you know, that just shows how the center of gravity has moved to the right. Yes, I think he is the least conservative of the five Republican appointees, but he's no liberal, and he's no modern (ph).

GREGORY: Well, what you've always said that I think is so interesting is, to what extent does Chief Justice Robert care about the - Roberts - care about the institution to build consensus.

It's one of the things you've seen with Gorsuch, certainly, with Thomas, and it's a potential risk for Justice Kavanaugh that he becomes a kind of recluse, and that he - he's gets bitter by this process and he doesn't engage. And that's one of the things that we have to watch.

TOOBIN: You know what they call a recluse justice? Justice. And you still got your vote, and you know, that's - that's -

GREGORY: Yes, but there's a lot more potential for any justice to engage and to care about the institutions.

TOOBIN: That's true.

BERMAN: David Gregory, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you, gentlemen, very much. I appreciate it.

GREGORY: Sure (ph).

TOOBIN: Thanks.

BERMAN: Erica.

HILL: College students debate the Brett Kavanaugh conformation battle. So does it mean it will head them - to help them to head to the polls? Up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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