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Melania Trump Calls For Firing Of Top National Security Aide; Florida's Palm Beach County To Restart Vote Recount After Machines Overheat; CNN Reality Check: Trump's Orbit, WikiLeaks And The Mueller Probe; President Trump Eyeing Replacements For John Kelly And Kirstjen Nielsen. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 14, 2018 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:31:26] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: CNN has learned the deputy national security adviser Mira Ricardel is headed for a White House exit after first lady Melanie Trump's office released a statement calling for her to be fired.

The statement read, "It is the position of the office of the first lady that Mira Ricardel no longer deserves the honor of serving in this White House."

Joining us now, we have CNN White House reporter Kate Bennett, and former chief of staff to first lady Laura Bush, Anita McBride. Great to see both of you ladies.

Kate --

ANITA MCBRIDE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH, EXECUTIVE-IN-RESIDENCE, CENTER FOR CONGRESSIONAL AND PRESIDENTIAL STUDIES, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY, WASHINGTON, D.C.: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: -- I want to start with you because John Berman has been chiding me all morning for bringing up the old-fashioned approach of pillow talk. Isn't that normally how first ladies have addressed their displeasure with someone on the staff that they didn't like, and why resort to something so public as a written statement?

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, I mean, I think that's an interesting point. My reporting shows that the first lady did try several times to speak to her husband about Mira Ricardel and her concerns that she was sort of a bad actor and things were happening behind the scenes, and she was spreading some stories or trying to leak some stories.

So I don't think the first lady didn't try to go that route, at least initially. And when that wasn't happening or when John Bolton would intervene on behalf of his staff member, that's when the first lady really took it to the next level.

I also think, too, and this is important, she has a very small staff. This is a very unusual East Wing where it is a very -- and I mean small, like four or five real core members of the first lady's East Wing. And when they were feeling as though they were under fire, under pressure -- that there was an injustice against them, this is when the first lady said something.

Certainly, as we've learned in our reporting, this woman, Mira Ricardel, is not necessarily well-liked. We had one source say she would get into a fight in an empty room. I mean, this is sort of the reporting on her and how she handled people -- the sharp elbows angle.

So certainly, that Mrs. Trump and her office were the ones who said something is, by all means, unprecedented and very public in that way. But it certainly speaks to how important this issue was for her --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BENNETT: -- and what was going on behind the scenes.

CAMEROTA: Anita, you are no stranger --

MCBRIDE: No.

CAMEROTA: -- to navigating the back channels between the East Wing and the West Wing -- first ladies and the president.

What do you make of this public statement?

MCBRIDE: Well, to pick up on your comment about the pillow talk and, of course, that is valid. That's where any husband and wife -- any spouse -- and they'll talk privately and share their opinions.

But also, one of the things that was really critical for us in the White House is Laura Bush had a great relationship with the two chiefs of staff that served President Bush. And she would have periodic -- not frequent, but periodic -- just private meetings with them -- with both Andy Card and with Josh Bolten -- and that was very confidential and all in under the umbrella of what's best for her husband.

And I remember even interviewing with her for the job and she said I'm not here for me. I'm here for George and because of George.

And she wanted to do everything that she could to help him and the West Wing knew that. So it made my life and our job as an East Wing staff very easy to work with the West Wing and get all the support and assets that we need.

Like Kate said, Mrs. Trump's staff is very small. All the more reason to really have allies in the West Wing to get that help when you're planning a solo trip to Africa or whatever it might be.

[07:35:05] And, Mira Ricardel obviously is someone -- and I know her -- not well, but I know John Bolton, too. These are not 'go along to get along' people. They have a view -- a hawkish view of foreign policy -- how things should be done, and they don't care about bureaucratic infighting. They'll fight.

CAMEROTA: And so, Kate -- I mean, I understand the sharp elbows. I understand she didn't endear herself -- Mira Ricardel -- to that many people on the staff. But did something go wrong on the Africa trip? Is that what prompted this?

BENNETT: So, you know, I was on the Africa trip and apparently, this started with some seats on the plane or trying -- wanting to be on the trip and not being able to be on the trip -- and Ms. Ricardel was not on the trip.

I will say this. The first lady does not fly in a big Air Force One 747 or -- like the president. It's a much smaller plane and when you're doing a weeklong trip to Africa there's her staff, there is -- there was a handful of press, secret service, advance team. The plane -- it was --

MCBRIDE: Full.

BENNETT -- it was not a plush situation.

And I -- and I hear that the beginnings of this feud began in that -- in that situation and then proceeded.

There was some talk of NSC -- them withholding resources that were needed. And on return to Washington there were some stories that there were leaks and planting of stories about her staff being made.

Whatever it was, I think it began on that Africa trip in terms of the feud behind the scenes and that has escalated and certainly, to a point where this first lady felt the need.

And as Anita said, this is an interesting White House as well because the East Wing has been very -- not only do they practice their independence, they've been very vocal about it.

MCBRIDE: Yes.

BENNETT: This is a first lady who typically releases statements as fiery as the one we saw yesterday without discussing it ahead of time with the West Wing. They operate on their own agenda and that certainly is another issue facing this as this drama unfolds today.

CAMEROTA: Well, yes. I mean, Anita, I just am wondering if you think -- what you think this means. Does it mean that the first lady doesn't have allies in the West Wing that she can trust? I mean, why is she operating so independently?

MCBRIDE: Yes, well, maybe.

But, you know, one thing for the West Wing and everybody in the administration to understand too and be reminded of -- you know, when you're first lady of the United States in the East Wing, it's the most powerful role in the White House -- full stop. That's just how it is. And it just doesn't help anybody to not have good relationships and to work with each other.

And to the point of the trip on Africa and listening to Kate sort of describe that, I knew -- now, granted, I -- we went -- we went to 67 countries with Laura Bush in four years -- 77 total that she went to. But many of those in that second term were solo. We traveled with and I asked and requested and got the support of the national security adviser to have someone from the NSC or the State Department -- a policy expert to come with us because as much as I was involved deeply in the planning of these things, you need a policy expert. You have no idea of things that are going to happen on the ground and it's just more helpful if East and West Wing can work very closely.

Again, it's the objectives of the president and the administration that really need to be served here. And regardless of the independence of any of the voices and the valuable voice of Mrs. Trump because she is great overseas representing the country.

CAMEROTA: All right, ladies. Thank you very much. It's hard to get better experts on this topic than both of you.

MCBRIDE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Anita McBride and Kate Bennett. Thank you.

BENNETT: Bye.

MCBRIDE: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: John --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're just going to keep saying pillow talk even when I'm not in the segment. You're just going to try to make me blush --

CAMEROTA: I have a lot to say about pillow talk.

BERMAN: -- even when I'm on camera.

CAMEROTA: You know what? When we talk during commercial breaks it's a little bit like pillow talk.

BERMAN: OK.

CAMEROTA: It's private between us and I try to influence you.

BERMAN: I'm just going to -- I'm just going to leave that there.

CAMEROTA: It's a lot like that.

BERMAN: I know what pillow talk is. It's not that I don't know what it is. I do know what it is.

CAMEROTA: Then why are you so uncomfortable right now?

BERMAN: We're a little more than 40 hours away from the deadline in the recount for three major races in Florida and one big county is dealing with a major glitch. The malfunction that could cause a delay, that's next.

We're going to have normal conversations during the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:42:53] BERMAN: The deadline for Florida's recount of three major races is tomorrow afternoon but some technical difficulties are putting election workers in a tough spot. Old, overheated, and overstressed machines, they malfunctioned in Palm Beach County and that means the county will need to redo its recount.

CNN's Rosa Flores joins us live from Broward County. That doesn't sound good, Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, that sounds like just par for the course, John. Good morning.

As you mentioned, Broward and Palm Beach counties really have been the two counties that have been plagued with most of the controversy and one day before a deadline is no exception.

In Palm Beach County, overheated, old, malfunctioning machines are now causing them to recount the recount. You heard that right. They lost one day's worth of work -- 179,000 ballots counted. Now they're having to fly in technicians. Staff are working 24/7.

Now, the supervisor of elections there has never said that she's going to complete all three statewide recounts, only saying that she is going to finish the Senate race. Will she? It's unclear. We will definitely be looking out for that tomorrow.

Here in Broward County, the supervisor of elections suggesting that she might step down. This is after reporters asked her a question about a tweet by Jeb Bush asking for her removal. She said she's contemplating it, she's talking to her family -- not going one way or the other.

Here's what she is confident about. She's saying that she will meet the deadline.

Now, we have seen a slew of lawsuits in this recount. You should know about at least one of them filed by the Dems in Tallahassee. The hearing is today and here is what is being argued -- that the state law that requires that the signature in a mail-in ballot matches the registered signature is unconstitutional.

And, John and Alisyn, buckle your safety belts because we have one more day. And if you know anything about Florida, anything could happen.

CAMEROTA: Oh, we're buckled in.

BERMAN: Yes. We have the rear-facing --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- car seats for Florida and that's what it's going to take to get through this, this week. Know that (ph) your seat belt will do the trick. CAMEROTA: Thank you, Rosa.

[07:45:00] All right.

So, communications between WikiLeaks and people in President Trump's orbit are under the microscope as special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation continues. So what evidence could investigators be looking for?

CNN senior political analyst John Avlon joins us with a reality check. Hi, John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, Ali.

OK, so, WikiLeaks, Trumpworld, and Mueller time. These three forces could well be colliding in the coming days or weeks.

And so here's a quick refresher on all the times we know of that WikiLeaks is reported to have connected with team Trump and the role it may have played in the 2016 election.

Now, according the U.S. Intelligence Community, Russian intelligence used WikiLeaks to publish e-mails aimed at undermining the campaign of Hillary Clinton as part of a broader operation to meddle with the U.S. 2016 presidential election.

Now, the president's son, Don Trump Jr., and Cambridge Analytica had reported communications with WikiLeaks.

And, longtime Trump adviser and notorious dirty trickster Roger Stone claimed on numerous occasions that he was privy to information WikiLeaks had on Hillary. For example --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER STONE, LONGTIME TRUMP CONFIDANTE: I actually have communicated with Assange, but there's no telling what the October surprise may be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Now, this came shortly after the first DNC e-mails were released in 2016. That's when Stone dished to that Republican group in Florida.

But now, going forward, he went on a tear of tweets in days and weeks forward, filing off real bragging about his ability to predict what might happen in the future.

Now, just minutes -- days after this last tweet, the "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" tape dropped. WikiLeaks began releasing the e-mails of the Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, as Stone had been long predicting, just 29 minutes after that tape dropped.

So, either Roger Stone is psychic, folks, or he would seem to have some inside information which he communicated on at least one occasion to campaign chairman Steve Bannon. At the same time, Don Jr. was back-channeling with WikiLeaks as well and promoting WikiLeaks via his Twitter account.

Now, in what may just be a complete coincidence this was when candidate Donald Trump started name-checking WikiLeaks constantly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: WikiLeaks -- I love WikiLeaks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: That's just a taste.

In fact, during the final month of the 2016 campaign, Donald Trump mentioned WikiLeaks at least 137 times according to "Politifact." And he tweeted about WikiLeaks at least 10 times in a 3-week span. That's some serious bromance that succeeded in promoting media coverage of the hacked DNC and Podesta e-mails.

Now, keep in mind Stone's lawyer now says his client had no contact with WikiLeaks and the Trump team vigorously denied there was any contact with WikiLeaks or foreign entities during the campaign.

For example, in October, V.P. nominee Pence said this about rumored coordination between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, THEN-VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE, CURRENT VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nothing could be further from the truth. I think all of us have -- you know, have had concerns about WikiLeaks over the years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: After the election, Kellyanne Conway had this exchange with John Dickerson from CBS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN DICKERSON, CBS CO-HOST, "CBS THIS MORNING": Did anyone involved in the Trump campaign have any contact with Russians trying to meddle with the election?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, FORMER TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER, COUNSELOR TO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Absolutely not. I hear people saying it like it's a fact, on television. That it's just not only inaccurate and false, but it's dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Not just false, but dangerous.

Well, we now know that several people from the Trump orbit were in contact with WikiLeaks and we know that WikiLeaks was a primary receptacle for Russian-hacked dirt against Hillary Clinton. As Trump's own CIA director and current Secretary of State Pompeo -- Mike Pompeo said --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR, CURRENT SECRETARY OF STATE: It's time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is -- a non-state, hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: We'll soon see if Mueller agrees.

And that's your reality check.

CAMEROTA: John, I'm not sure how it gets any more explicit than what Roger Stone said. "I have communicated with Assange."

AVLON: Well, and all the tweets in which he's saying Podesta's time the barrel is coming up.

But essentially, Stone's defense is he wasn't telling the truth, he was showing --

BERMAN: Right.

AVLON: -- he was fronting, and that's always an x-factor when you're dealing with Roger Stone.

BERMAN: That's right. If your best defense is 'I make things up' you may not have a strong defense. But we will see. We might see very, very soon.

John Avlon, thanks very much.

AVLON: Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: A big staff shake-up in the White House could be in the works. A big Democratic victory in the House and now, conservative lawyers banding together to say the president's going too far. One man in the middle of it all, next.

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[07:53:24] BERMAN: All right.

Sources tell CNN some high-profile officials could soon be on the way out of the White House. Among them is Homeland Security Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen.

Joining us now is Tom Ridge. He was the first-ever secretary of the Department of Homeland Security --

TOM RIDGE, FORMER SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, (R) FORMER GOVERNOR OF PENNSYLVANIA: Good morning.

BERMAN: -- and served as governor of Pennsylvania, among other jobs.

Governor, I actually want to start with your job as a former member of the House of Representatives because, as you know, Democrats are taking control of the House and they want a couple of seats -- a few seats in your home state of Pennsylvania.

What do you think happened to the Republicans in the House?

RIDGE: Well, first of all, I think you give credit where credit's due. I think Nancy Pelosi and her team decided that they would build an electoral plan around what they stand for.

I mean, everybody knows they oppose the administration -- may be personally opposed to President Trump. But the fact is they talked about issues that Americans care about and were rewarded with a substantial victory. At least the headline of message discipline in the Democrat Party and frankly, I hope it carries over into the new Congress.

And that message discipline hopefully, at least from my point of view not as a Republican but as an American, is to figure out a way to work with the president to bring civility back to the political discourse. And maybe we could come up with a new hat -- a red, white, and blue hat that says "Let's Make Government Work Again."

And so, it's a new Congress, a new tone, a new approach. And I kind of tip my hat to the Democrats. They did a pretty good staying on message and their message was positive.

And I think Americans want government to work for them. They don't want political figures to work for each other or for their parties. And so I think that's exactly what transpired.

BERMAN: All right. Along those lines here, I just got handed to me an article and I wasn't aware of this until I read it just moments. You're part of a new group of lawyers -- they are former lawyers or active lawyers -- calling yourselves "Check and Balances" --

[07:55:09] RIDGE: "Checks and Balances," yes.

BERMAN: -- right?

This is a group of lawyers who are concerned about the Trump administration's betrayals of bedrock legal norms.

What exactly do you mean?

RIDGE: Well, I think it's not as much about President Trump as about our holistic embrace of the constitutional principles, constitutional values, separation of powers. Respect for the rule of law, respect for the Bill of Rights, particularly First Amendment freedoms.

And I, particularly, was attracted to this group because they also want a more civil -- more civil discourse in the world of politics. So it's not like we've got -- we're unanimous around any single issue because we're probably not. The issue we are -- we are embedded in and that is the glue that holds us together is a country founded on a constitution, on the rule of law, and we expect political figures on both sides of the aisle to respect those values, period.

BERMAN: Is the president -- is the president respecting those values?

RIDGE: Well listen, I, for one, find it very unfortunate that the President of the United States has taken on, just about every day, the press.

Look, I was governor of Pennsylvania. It's not as if all my press conferences were just warm and fuzzy events.

The press and the First Amendment and the freedom of press wasn't designed to throw bouquets of congratulations and approval every time a political figure steps forward. The press exists to hold all of us who were privileged to hold office accountable.

And so you get asked stuff -- questions and criticism is part of the game. It's a tough sport --

BERMAN: Yes.

RIDGE: -- but one of the officials in the sport happens to be the press. And again, that's a constitutional principle that I think lawyers, Republicans or Democrats, would rally to protect.

You know, there are -- there are countries in the world that don't have freedom of the press but we -- I don't want to live in China, Russia or Iran.

BERMAN: That's a great point.

Let me ask you about Sec. Nielsen who reports say could be on the way out.

How do you assess the job she's done and if, in this administration, doing that job well is possible? How does one do this job well in this administration?

RIDGE: Well, full transparency. She's a great friend of mine, she's a great talent.

I think, more importantly, the Department of Homeland Security has been a political pinata for a long, long time. And, of course, because the president's raising the issues of immigration and wall and some of the rhetoric associated with it has made her job even more complex. And from a public relations point of view, probably more difficult than any of her predecessors, including yours truly.

So I think she's done a very good job under very trying circumstances and I think should be credited for being the leader and the patriot that she's proven and she's tried to be every single day she walks into that office. BERMAN: Among the examples you're trying to set on bipartisanship is you're part of a bipartisan panel on biosecurity and biodefense strategy. You're going to hear some testimony today.

Why should we care about this today, Governor?

RIDGE: Well, it's interesting you -- and thank you for raising it. We are going to hear testimony from the White House today.

Three years ago, six public figures -- three Democrats and three Republicans -- aha, bipartisan making government work again -- decided that we have a major national defense issue that not too many people are paying attention to and it's called biodefense.

Whether it's Mother Nature, nation-states, terrorists or accidental release of these things, we have a problem. We don't have a strategy, we don't have priorities. We've got money being spent all over the place.

And so we're grateful one of the recommendations -- and again, I'm proud to co-chair it with Sen. Lieberman. One of the primary recommendations was let's have a strategy. Let's figure out how -- where all this money's coming from. Let's set priorities.

It's a serious national defense issue.

Look, we had the ricin letters a couple of weeks, we had Ebola, we've had Zika. But we also know from the Intelligence Community that there a lot of nation-states out there that still have the capability of turning a biological -- creating biological weapons. And we know that terrorists played around with that as well.

So, a national defense issue, bipartisan group, bipartisan strategy, and President Trump's administration has embraced it. We're looking forward to the testimony today over at the Hudson Institute.

BERMAN: Former governor, former secretary of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge. Thank you for your bipartisan efforts. Thanks for caring about the serious issues.

RIDGE: Make government work again -- very good.

BERMAN: Good luck with that.

RIDGE: Yes.

BERMAN: Thanks for joining us this morning -- appreciate it, Governor.

RIDGE: You're welcome.

BERMAN: Up next, it is being described -- he's laughing. I wish we could say that without having people think it was a joke.

CAMEROTA: Well, he seems more optimistic than sometimes we are.

BERMAN: Well, he's not going to quit trying.

CAMEROTA: Oh, yes.

BERMAN: He's not going to quit trying.

Up next, it is being described as five days of fury by "The Washington Post." What's going on inside the White House?

"NEW DAY" continues right now.

CAMEROTA: And, good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, November 14th, 8:00 in the east.