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Trump Planning End Run Around Congress to Build Wall; Michael Cohen Testifying Before Congress in February; Missing Teen Found Alive after Parents' Murder. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 11, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: He's holding the American people hostage.

[07:00:28] President Trump, federal workers need their paychecks.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: My Democratic colleagues NEED TO seek treatment for their brand-new party allergy to border security.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The law is very clear. We have the absolute right to declare a national emergency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to go back to work. It's a manufactured crisis by a madman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just don't know what's going to happen, and that's the hardest part about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He knows everything. He's at the nexus of the president's personal affairs but also the Trump Organization and the campaign.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not worried about it at all, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of the ways that Michael Cohen might have been involved, there's a lot for us to learn.

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: There's two courts here. One is a court of law. One is the court of public opinion.

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ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY and your new day.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you. And your new day.

BERMAN: Thank you very much.

This is now tied for the longest shutdown in government history, 21 days. Eight hundred thousand federal workers, they will not get a paycheck today. This is a pay stub from an air-traffic controller working without pay, getting $0 for this week. Zero dollars because of the shutdown that the president promised to own to build a wall that he once said that Mexico would pay for.

President Trump is reportedly moving closer to declaring a national emergency to bypass Congress and use unspent federal funds to build his border wall. He's reportedly asking for money appropriated for disaster relief, including relief efforts in the wake of Hurricane Maria that killed 3,000 people in Puerto Rico. So, if this happens, the wall, who's going to pay for it?

CAMEROTA: Hurricane victims.

BERMAN: Puerto Rico.

CAMEROTA: That wasn't what happened on the campaign trail. That was --

BERMAN: I don't remember hearing that at those rallies.

CAMEROTA: Also this morning, Michael Cohen, former Trump lawyer, now a convicted felon implicated in campaign finance crimes, has agreed to testify publicly in what should be a blockbuster hearing before Congress next month. It may be just the beginning of the new Democratic majority turning up the political heat on the president.

The president tells reporters he's not worried about this at all. He's not worried about Cohen's testimony.

Joining us now to talk about all of this, we have CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, a former federal prosecutor; CNN political commentator Michael Smerconish; and Van Jones, host of "THE VAN JONES SHOW." Great to have all of you guys here. Happy Friday.

So Van, back to the shutdown. It's not -- the president is now not just planning to do an end run around Congress, if he were to declare a national emergency; also planning to raid the funds, billions of dollars, for hurricane victims from Texas, Florida, and Puerto Rico.

VAN JONES, HOST, "THE VAN JONES SHOW": At a time when we're actually seeing more and more actual disasters not manmade, artificial crises, but real crises. We have, you know, the fires that happen in California. We've had, you know, multiple storms, big hurricanes.

You actually want to have that big pot of money there to help real people deal with real problems. And instead, he's going to raid the piggy bank.

This is actually a really bad thing, not just for the finances of the country. It's a bad thing for the country itself. People keep telling me, "OH, it will be great for him to do this, because then, you know, we're going to get out of this situation. It's a get-out- of-jail-free card for everybody if he just declares a state of emergency."

No. He painted himself into a corner. The only way now to get out of that corner is to tear down the wall behind him. The wall behind him is called the U.S. Constitution which says Congress appropriates. And so we're now in very, very difficult territory for victims of hurricanes and other crises but also for the country itself.

BERMAN: Who's going to pay for it?

CAMEROTA: Hurricane victims.

BERMAN: That's really unbelievable when you think about it, based on all the times the president said Mexico would pay for it. Now he's dipping into those funds that have already been appropriated to help these victims, not just in Puerto Rico, but also Texas, places where he does want to build this border wall.

And the "National Review," we talked about yesterday the fact this may end up being legal. A court may say the president has the right do this. But the other question is should he do it, and what are the implications? "The National Review" says, "It's an offense against the spirit of our system for a president to fail to get what he wants from Congress, then turn around and do it anyway."

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, you know, this is a bedrock principle of the American Constitution, which under Article I of the Constitution, it is Congress's power to decide how the federal government's money is spent.

And there is this law from 1976, the National Emergencies Act, which has been used, with the cooperation of Congress, to allocate money in certain directions in very minor ways. This has never been done before. When a -- when a president is explicitly refuted by Congress. Congress says, "No, I will not. We will not allocate this money," to say the president, in defiance of the Constitution, using this law, will do it anyway. It's a real difference.

[07:05:09] And, you know, Marco Rubio yesterday said, "Well, you know, what are happens when a -- when a Democrat is president and then say climate change is an emergency?"

CAMEROTA: Fair question.

TOOBIN: Can they -- can they just spend money the way they want? I mean, Democrats might like money spent on climate change, but the idea that Congress doesn't control the purse would be a major change in how our government works.

CAMEROTA: Once you break the precedent, then all bets are off.

TOOBIN: Right.

CAMEROTA: So Michael, look. So millions of people did not believe the president when he said Mexico was going to pay for the wall, but he said it 200 times. And a lot of people at his rallies did, too, believe it, since they always answered when he said, "Who's going to pay for the wall?" And they said, "Mexico's going to pay for the wall."

Yesterday he tried to claim that he never said it or never meant it. Here's the president yesterday.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: During the campaign I would say Mexico's going to pay for it. Obviously, I never said this; and I never meant they're going to write out a check.

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CAMEROTA: I mean, what we talked about last hour was just the brazenness with which he now retreats and lies and says, "You never heard this. I never said this."

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, "SMERCONISH": I would like to think that today it all changes. It changes, I think, when these 800,000 folks, many of whom are still working, many of whom have been furloughed, are now all of a sudden, for the first time, not going to get a paycheck because 80 percent of Americans -- 80 percent of Americans -- not those who are subject to this situation, 80 percent of the rest of us are living paycheck to paycheck.

And so I think that those personal stories that you've been showing more and more of are really going to begin to resonate now when Americans watch these folks on television and say, "There, but for the grace of God go I, and if I were in that position I couldn't make my mortgage payment."

JONES: That's true.

SMERCONISH: The vast majority of Americans could not sustain an emergent situation. So unfortunately, at the expense of people who are really jammed up on this today, I'd like to think the debate is about to change.

BERMAN: I'm so glad you're pointing this out, really. I mean, there are 800,000 people not getting paid today. We showed that zeroed-out paycheck.

CAMEROTA: -- you know?

BERMAN: John Pistole -- John Pistole, who ran the TSA, told me he's concerned that this will lower morale so much among TSA screeners that will make the country more vulnerable.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: It's a serious deal.

CAMEROTA: But the people who feel more desperate, won't they say, "Yes, I support the president doing whatever he has to do so that I don't -- so that I can feed my kids and I can pay my mortgage. Whatever he has to do to get the paychecks going again"? JONES: I don't -- with Monopoly money? And also, it's not just the

TSA. We keep talking about them. They're very important. The Coast Guard, the people who are trying to keep America's coastlines safe, are not getting paid.

You have -- we talk about essential employees. Those are the people who are forced to work without pay. These are the people that are keeping our airports safe, our coastlines safe. These are the people who now have to figure out, "How do I drive my car to work when I didn't have money for gas."

CAMEROTA: Right. I understand. But if he declares the national emergency, then they get paid again.

JONES: Listen, they may be happy. We may have some short-term gain for some long-term pain. I do not want these workers to keep suffering.

There's an easy way, without threatening our Constitution, to get them back working. President, put them back to work, and then we can have the discussion.

Both sides, by the way, have said they are -- they want to talk about border security. Both sides have said that they're open to some kind of fencing or whatever. What is happening, though, is hostage taking on the part of the president, is now leading to an unprecedented violation of separation of powers, all in the name of a phony crisis and a wall that doesn't need to be built.

BERMAN: Michael Cohen will be testifying before Congress on February 7th. Jeffrey Toobin, Michael Cohen, who was the president's one-time right-hand man, lawyer, fixer, and is now a convicted felon. I imagine this will be quite a TV event.

What is bigger here: the legal implication or the political implication?

TOOBIN: Political. Because remember, I mean, Donald Trump is not going to be criminally prosecuted. This is a political event. He -- I don't think he will be impeached either, but his political status is very much in jeopardy because of the Russia scandal broadly.

And two things to remember about Michael Cohen's testimony. One thing we don't know yet is will he be prepared by congressional staffers in advance? Because testimony is only effective if people prepare in advance. And they spend ten hours behind the scenes for every hour in court or in a hearing. That's the other point.

The other point to remember is that this will not be according to the rules of evidence. So hearsay is admissible in Congress. So you can be sure that virtual -- lots of questions will be to Michael Cohen, "Well, what did Donald Trump say to you? What did he tell you about Stormy Daniels? What did he tell you about Karen McDougal? What did he tell you about his dealings with Russia?" Although that subject may be reserved for executive session for secret, you know, the whole Russia side. But he can talk openly without a judge telling him no about his dealings with president -- candidate Trump, and that will be a very big deal.

[07:10:17] CAMEROTA: I want to skip over Michael for one second and back to you, Van, because of Congressman Steve King. Congressman Steve King, reelected, who says, "What is so wrong? What's the problem with white supremacists? Why are we -- why do we feel bad about that term? What's the problem?"

JONES: Look, I'm embarrassed. I mean, I'm raising my family in California. I'm embarrassed that Californians have sent him back. We've known that he was a closet bigot for a very long time. Now, he's just basically out the closet.

And unfortunately, he's being supported by other voices. The mainstreaming of white supremacy, the mainstreaming of white nativism, the mainstreaming of white nationalism has been well under way since, frankly, the Trump campaign started off, you know, coming down the escalator, saying that most of the immigrants from Mexico are rapists and murderers.

This has been an ongoing process. I'm just glad that there are only -- there's only Steve King who can still be an outlier that Republicans and others can still repudiate and should aggressively, because where we're headed on this thing is very, very dangerous.

BERMAN: Steve King, congressman from Iowa. Kevin McCarthy is the minority leader from California, came out and condemned the statements.

Yet, should there be, Michael Smerconish, other action? If you're Republican leadership in Congress, how do you feel about this guy sitting in the chamber every day?

SMERCONISH: I think you feel embarrassed. I think they're also frightened of their own base.

So much of all of the subjects that we're talking about today are dependent upon the base of that GOP and whether they're going to remain lockstep and supportive of these members of Congress. The members of Congress are scared to death of that base. That base is largely controlled by the mouth pieces in the conservative media that are giving them their marching orders.

And so it's this vicious cycle where folks are afraid to break ranks. In a case like this, it's a no-brainer. You break ranks, and you condemn.

CAMEROTA: Michael, Jeffrey, Van, thank you all very much for the conversation. Be sure to watch Van's show. Tomorrow, he will size up the Democratic field for 2020. His guest will be Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. She's in the news. That's tomorrow night at 7 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

BERMAN: I'm going to ask him during the break to size up the 2020 field.

CAMEROTA: Let's do that. BERMAN: I'm not going to wait until tomorrow night.

All right. Breaking overnight, missing Wisconsin teenager Jayme Closs has been found alive. This is stunning. Three months after her parents were murdered in their home, and she disappeared.

CNN's Ryan Young is live in Barron County, Wisconsin, with all the breaking details.

Ryan, what have you learned here?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, look, this is really astonishing. I called the sheriff just last month and asked him, were they still searching for this young lady? And they had redoubled their efforts. They had billboards all over this state, trying to find this young lady.

And apparently, from what we're told, a woman was walking her dog. And she talked to "The Star-Tribune," and what she told that paper is, as she was walking her dog, she saw this young lady that looked disheveled. And she got closer, and she realized it was Jayme Closs.

This girl's been missing for three months, since her parents were murdered and someone called 911 from her mom's cell phone. Since then, there's been no sign of her. She was found 70 miles away in Gordon County.

In fact, listen to her aunt talk about the moment that she finally found out that this young lady was found alive.

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SUE NAIBERG ALLARD, JAYME CLOSS'S AUNT (via phone): There's rumors earlier today; and I prayed and prayed they were true. And they come to not be true. And I just shut myself totally down, because I thought today was going to be the day. And then to find out, two hours later, she was found, I just -- I just cannot believe this.

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YOUNG: Could you imagine the emotion of being one of these family members who finally finds out this young lady has been found? The idea that she could have been walking outside in a wooded area? I mean, it's very cold here.

Of course, we're trying to find out more details. There was a suspect who was arrested. They haven't given that person's name just yet. There's a news conference scheduled for 10 a.m. Central Time today, so hopefully, the sheriff will give us all the information. But after all this time and the FBI being involved, this young lady has finally been found -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: This is remarkable, Ryan. I mean, I don't have to tell everybody how often missing kid cases don't turn out this way. But obviously, there are so many questions. Thank you for the reporting. We'll check back with you. OK. So 800,000 federal workers are getting pay stub today like this

one, that you're -- well, trust me on this -- it says $0 on it. There it is. So we're going to talk to two furloughed workers who are getting this pay stub today.

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[07:18:33] CAMEROTA: This is the reality for 800,000 federal workers this morning. A pay stub that reads zero dollars and zero cents. This one belongs to Tryshanda Moton. She's a senior aerospace engineer at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center. She joins us now, along with Carl Houtman. He's a chemical engineer for the U.S. Forest Service.

Guys, thank you so much for joining us on NEW DAY to share your personal experience right now. So you are two of the 800,000 people who are not getting paychecks.

Tryshanda, this comes at a particularly bad time for you. Maybe there's no good time to skip a paycheck, but for you, you're trying to close on a house this week.

TRYSHANDA MOTON, SENIOR AEROSPACE ENGINEER, NASA'S GODDARD SPACE FLIGHT CENTER: Yes, I am. Well, in a couple of weeks, at the end of January, I'm scheduled to close on the house.

CAMEROTA: And the bank is now, I guess, having cold feet, because you can't prove that you have an income? Is that what's happening?

MOTON: Yes, that's exactly what's happening. It turns out that two pay stubs, two recent pay stubs were needed as proof of income or proof of employment; and what I have is what you've shown there, a pay stub that shows $0. So --

CAMEROTA: And this is even more dire, because you have a deadline of having to get out of your current apartment this month.

MOTON: Yes, that's correct.

CAMEROTA: So what's the plan?

MOTON: Well, I don't know. I talked to the banks just yesterday. Two different lenders. Both of whom are interested in helping go forward with the scheduled settlement date, but there is some trepidation, because both have said, previously, they have not had to deal with furloughed -- furloughed federal workers in this way, because typically, those workers are guaranteed employment soon. But in this case where it's seemingly indefinite, there's some -- some concern.

[07:20:22] So there have been meetings at these banks with those senior leaders and with their underwriters to see what might be done. But for now, the process is still going. It's just that, if we're not working again by the 30th of January when the 31st comes, which is my settlement date, I may have to postpone all of that and decide where I'll be moving to in the meantime. CAMEROTA: Look, moving is stressful under any circumstances, but not

not knowing if you're going to have an income just obviously compounds it.

Carl, as we understand it, you've worked for 21 years for the Forest Service. You are the primary wage earner for your family. You also do --

CARL HOUTMAN, CHEMICAL ENGINEER, U.S. FOREST SERVICE: Yes, I'm the primary wage earner in our family, yes. And my -- my dear wife's a freelance writer, but that doesn't always pay all that well.

CAMEROTA: Understood. And you say that this is absolutely the worst time to have a zero on your paycheck. Why is this timing so bad?

HOUTMAN: Well, you know, as most people, the year-end bills kind of come all at once. I mean, our property tax bill. I have two kids in college and so, you know, there's about $10,000 worth of college expenses that are coming due. There's a car payment, like a car insurance payment coming up.

And so, you know, I can fairly quickly do the math and come up with about $15,000 worth of expenses right now, and normally, I would get paid next, you know, it hits our account next Monday. So I'm guessing that I'm not going to get a paycheck, and so that's going to be a problem.

CAMEROTA: And so, Carl, how would you describe the mood in your house right now?

HOUTMAN: Well, you know, my wife and I, a couple of days ago, went through; and we inventoried our freezer. And we inventoried all of the things in our pantry, and we're kind of thinking about the "Iron Chef" thing, you know. What can we -- how can we feed our family out of what we have already?

CAMEROTA: So Tryshanda, I know that you're meeting with Senator Cardin, Ben Cardin of Maryland, this morning. What's your message? I know you'll bring your message to him, and I'm sure he'll be a sympathetic ear. But what's your message to the lawmakers and the president in Washington who are still wrestling with this?

MOTON: My message is to please allow to us get back to work. Make it possible for federal workers to get back to work.

I work at a place where it's very exciting; and a lot of my colleagues are experiencing similar stress and turmoil in not being able to have a paycheck. And it's demoralizing. Some people are starting to already look for other work, because it seems like this is indefinite.

So I would like for the Congress and the president to come to some terms that would work for everyone. I really hope that we can get back to work soon, because we've earned these opportunities. We want to do good work, and I think it's fair that we get to work for what we've -- we've been planning for.

CAMEROTA: Trained for, yes, of course.

MOTON: Yes, we've been training for.

CAMEROTA: That's not --

MOTON: This is the kind of work we wanted to do. We don't want to look for other work. So hopefully, things will happen sooner than later so that we don't have to start job shopping.

CAMEROTA: Carl, what's your message to the president and lawmakers?

HOUTMAN: So I've been -- I'm actually a union representative, as well, in our -- at our facility, and I know that some of our folks are actually starting to look for work.

But I'm a senior research guy, and I actually can't work -- for ethical reasons, I can't work in my field. So the idea of going and being a barista or something really doesn't work for me. So I can't -- I don't see how I can go to work.

The other thing is, is that, you know, I have contracts with companies and things going right now. And I've had to, like, put notes on my e- mail saying, "You know, I'm not around. Don't send me stuff. I can't get that report in to you," you know. So it's having a ripple effect in my cooperative work. I mean, you know, how can cooperators and companies that I work with believe that I can deliver, which I have been for the last 20 years, when I just suddenly can't go to work and can't meet my obligations and contracts and stuff?

CAMEROTA: I mean, look, I think everybody can appreciate how disruptive this is to both of your lives, to all of the lives of the 800,000. But, Carl, does that mean that you would be willing for the president to call a national emergency to stop this?

HOUTMAN: That's just -- that's just crazy. I'm sorry, I don't really get to say that about my boss. But, you know, this $5 billion for a wall thing, you know, all of Forest Service fire funding last year was about half that. So, you know, $5 billion is not trivial. And so tossing it around like it's a minor piece of or minor amount of money is just not true. And so it's -- just -- let's get us back to work.

[07:25:22] CAMEROTA: Carl Houtman, Tryshanda Moton, thank you very much for sharing your pay stubs, sharing your personal stories. We're thinking of you, and we will follow your cases. Please let us know of any developments.

MOTON: Thank you.

HOUTMAN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: All right. Thanks, Alisyn.

President Trump says he will almost definitely declare an emergency on the border if he can't make a deal with Congress. But do people living there, do they want a wall? We're going to speak with a member of Congress representing a border district, next.

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BERMAN: President Trump is moving closer to making an emergency declaration to pay for his border wall, given the breakdown in talks to end the government shutdown, the shutdown that he said he would own.

The people living on the border, do they want a wall? Do they want this emergency declaration?

Joining us now is Democratic member of Congress, the newly-elected Veronica Escobar. She represents Texas's 16th Congressional District, which includes El Paso.