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Giuliani's Comment on Collusion; Secret Service Works without Pay; Healthy Food Hacks; Women Make History in 2020 Primary. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 17, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: When the Mueller report comes out.

But it's very important to note that the president himself is, in fact, in the middle of the questionable events and the allegations that Mueller is looking at right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, I -- we may come back to it before the Mueller report comes out. We may come back to it if there are new indictments that come out in the next week or two weeks. Based on what he said, he seemed to be foreshadowing that something might be in the works.

And, Susan, just one more point, back to that very specific language that Giuliani used when he said, no evidence the president of the United States committed collusion. The only crime you can commit here.

Again, such specific language there. Why is he signaling that? Why is he using such a narrow definition?

GLASSER: Well, you know, I think you're right to focus on that. Usually, you know, there's that old prosecutor saying that, you know, I may not know what the crime is, but the person who committed it knows what they did. And it seems like I remember in President Bill Clinton there's -- and his definition of "is" is. It seems like Giuliani is trying to tell us something which may well be that, well, President Trump did something but we don't consider it to be a crime. It may be that that they don't believe, as they've said previously, that Donald Trump can have committed any crime because, in fact, he's the president of the United States and they don't believe he's indictable while he is the president of the United States. So it may well be, it's simply fancy footwork that they're offering you here.

But my view is that a -- the allegations concerning the president are so much more substantive and specific than they were two years ago that their response is interesting. Remember, too, that President trump has not been tweeting about the witch hunt and no collusion for a remarkable period of time while he's enmeshed the government in the shutdown.

BERMAN: Right.

GLASSER: I find that to be notable as well. BERMAN: Look, the president hasn't written anything on Twitter for a

day now. Is his silence because he knows something may be coming? I don't know. I don't know. But it is -- it is notable this morning.

All right, Garrett Graff, winner of the most provocative headline award, "Trump Must be a Russian Agent; The Alternative is Too Awful." Explain why.

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I think we've seen, and Susan just touched on this, is this building of very substantive information on the one hand about the pro-Putin actions that the president has taken, as well as the incredible amount of corruption and criminality that was going on in the midst of his campaign, which Giuliani touched on himself in those comments. And then, on the other hand, is sort of this question where we've seen the -- increasingly these innocent explanations for these conversations, these meetings, these actions stripped away. And I think we're left today with effectively just two scenarios. One is Donald Trump is working, sort of wittingly or unwittingly, on behalf of Russia, engaged in some type of conspiracy, collusion, cooperation, or Donald Trump is so egotistical, such a terrible manager, so naturally prone to undermine Democratic institutions, foreign alliances and coddle authoritarians that this is just the way that he is.

And we're now at a point where I think, unfortunately for the president, the option that makes him look smarter is that he's engaged in a conspiracy with Vladimir Putin.

BERMAN: The other option being, in your words in your piece is that he is what Russian intelligence refers to as a useful idiot. Explain.

GRAFF: So "useful idiot" -- and Susan knows this history well -- was a term that communists used during the cold war to discuss people who were sort of useful to their cause and able to be coopted without realizing it. Sort of people who were so clueless that they could be great pawns for the Soviet communist cause without necessarily realizing what they're doing. And I think sort of unfortunately at this point it would almost be embarrassing for the president, if it turns out that Robert Mueller doesn't conclude that he's an agent of the Russian government.

BERMAN: So, Susan, the other thing we learned over the last two days, which was fascinating, which is in Peter Baker's piece in "The New York Times," but he's referring to our friend David Sanger, that the president, after returning from a meeting, on the way home from his meeting with Vladimir Putin in Hamburg, the first time he met with him. He had two one-on-one meetings with the Russian leader, called David Sanger and this is what he said.

The day after the two meetings, as Mr. Trump was on Air Force One taking off from Germany heading back to Washington, he telephoned a "Times" reporter and argued the Russians were falsely accused of election interference.

This is after everything. In 2017. Summer. After meeting with Putin he's still arguing the Russians didn't do it. [08:35:05] GLASSER: Well, that's right. And it's very striking for a

couple of reasons. Number one, in that meeting in Hamburg, that he -- there's no record of this meeting. They've continued to resist giving any detailed information about it to Congress or to the public.

Number two, it was on that same airplane ride that he's calling David Sanger and saying, no, no, there was no election interference. And we -- you know, we talked about adoption is the official line from that. Well, of course, that's exactly the same airplane flight in which Trump himself dictated the statement denying that anything untoward happened at the Trump Tower meeting involving his son. And it's the exact same excuse that's used. Well, it was going to be about adoption. Well, that's code word for talking about the Magnitsky Act. But, again, why, on some level, are we, you know, still so stunned? President Trump has said those things in public, including alongside Vladimir Putin at his Helsinki press conference in which he has questioned Russian interference.

BERMAN: Right.

Susan Glasser, Garrett Graff, thank you so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John, the shutdown is creating a potentially dangerous situation. Many of them, in fact. We heard from the head of the prison guards earlier. And now from the people who keep the nation's most powerful people safe. They're going without pay, too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:24] CAMEROTA: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi urging President Trump to postpone the State of the Union citing security concerns. But the head of Homeland Security says the U.S. Secret Service is fully prepared, even if they're not getting paid.

CNN's Jessica Dean is live in Washington with more.

What's the latest, Jessica?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Alisyn.

These officers and agents risk their lives every single day. They have continued to go to work throughout this shutdown, but they are certainly not immune to the financial impacts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hello, folks. Thank you very much.

DEAN (voice over): They put their lives on the line to protect the president, his family, and other key American officials.

TRUMP: Secret Service and military, these are great people.

DEAN: And right now the U.S. Secret Service is doing it without pay.

JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Overarching throughout the agency, the morale is starting to deteriorate.

DEAN: Of the over 7,222 Secret Service employees, 5,978 are currently working without pay, 1,244 are furloughed.

WACKROW: Secret Service agents who are not getting paid --

DEAN: Former Secret Service Agent Jonathan Wackrow says with no paychecks in sight, many in the agency see bank accounts dwindling and short-term debt mounting, which itself creates a potential security threat and puts Secret Service jobs at risk.

WACKROW: If their credit score goes below a certain level, they lose their clearance levels, you know, to operate at the -- at the highest level of the government.

DEAN: According to Wackrow, while flights and hotels are covered for their travel, Secret Service members are paying out of pocket for other travel expenses while on the job, adding to the possibility of running up debt.

WACKROW: The smaller bill items, like parking expenses, meals, taxi cabs, all of those things that build up over time. Now, if you're traveling, you know, for seven or eight days at a time, and I have to front all of that money, that mounts up.

DEAN: President Trump had this to say about the men and women who protect him, as well as others going without pay.

TRUMP: I think they have been terrific. These are terrific patriots. A lot of them agree with what I'm doing. And I hope we're going to have the situation worked out. But they want security in our country, and so do I.

DEAN: While there are certainly some agents who agree with him, many are telling CNN the opposite. One current agent put it this way, quote, most people don't care about politics. This isn't about the wall. When guys are having a hard time paying the bills and making ends meet, nobody wants to hear about that.

The agent added, quote, politicians have a job to do, right? Nobody is doing their job as far as I'm concerned.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: And a DHS official confirms to us this morning that while flight and hotel expenses are directly covered by the Secret Service for these agents who are required to travel for protection, there are these out of pocket expenses. Now, the -- we're told that the U.S. Secret Service is working very hard with these agents, trying to do what they can, and that cash advance options are being encouraged and being promoted in this particular situation. John and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, Jessica. I mean everyone's a professional, right? Everybody there is a professional and they want to do their jobs. They just need to get paid.

BERMAN: Yes.

DEAN: Right.

BERMAN: Well, look, I was talking to John Pistole, you know, who used to head up the TSA. He goes, yes, these people are professionals. They go and they want to work. But how can you not be thinking about the fact you don't have money to buy food or groceries? It has to weigh on you.

CAMEROTA: Jessica, thank you.

BERMAN: All right, making history before the first vote is cast. The candidates making sure the 2020 presidential primary will be unlike any race before it.

CAMEROTA: But first, setting a health goal for the new year can start with the best of intentions, by now you may have found that sticking to it is the hard part, John, as I've been lamenting. In today's "Food as Fuel," nutritionist Lisa Drayer shares a few simple diet hacks to help you lose weight and stay fit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA DRAYER, CNN HEALTH CONTRIBUTOR: A few small changes to your diet could mean big benefits for your waistline. Instead of adding whole milk in your morning latte, consider 1 percent. This simple change can help you lose up to three pounds per year. Eliminate the sugar and you could drop another six pounds.

For breakfast, go for avocado on toast instead of butter. This healthy spread can help you lose eight pounds over the year.

Now let's talk snacks. While reaching for a candy bar may seem like a convenient option, it can often be loaded with extra calories and sugar. By choosing a fruit and nut bar instead, you could lower the scale by an additional seven pounds.

As for drinks, you could lose about 15 pounds per year simply by substituting a can of soda for a glass of water.

[08:45:04] Now let's calculate the results. If you practice each of these tips on a daily basis, you could lose almost 40 pounds by year's end.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Well, the 2020 Democratic presidential primary race is taking shape and already it's making history. Senator Kirsten Gillibrand has thrown her name in, along with Senator Elizabeth Warren, marking the first time that two female senators in the same party are running for president.

BERMAN: Joining us now to discuss, Jess McIntosh, former director of communications outreach for the Hillary Clinton campaign, and MJ Lee, CNN national political correspondent.

Jess, just reflect on the moment for us, why you look at this with such a giant smile.

[08:50:02] JESS MCINTOSH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. No, it's -- this is -- this is the thing that makes me smile in 2019, when we -- when we all get really down on how long this is going to take and how grueling it's going to be. And all of that is true. The question on the table is, which woman do you want to see be president? We have never had to answer that question before. And that is truly amazing.

I think it's important to see it as building on 2018, which built on 2016. The truth is, women have been saying that they were ready for women's leadership for a very long time. Three million more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton. 2018 saw an unprecedented wave of women getting elected to office. This year we are seeing multiple women in the field for president. Even the Women's March was the largest political organization this country had ever seen. Women are just saying over and over again that it's time and we're ready for this. So whether the media narrative, the political narrative, ever validates us, we're there. And I think -- I think we're ready to make history this year.

CAMEROTA: MJ, it's more than just those two senators that we cited. There are other people who are toying with it or who have announced. So here's where it stands right now. As we said, Gillibrand and Warren. There's also Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. There's also Senator Kamala Harris, who is considering. Senator Amy Klobuchar, who is considering. So -- I mean and more perhaps than that.

And because you have been in the field with Elizabeth Warren, I do want to know from your take, from being on the ground, does the enthusiasm that we're seeing of women to get involved, not just run for president but all up and down public service and government, does it match voter's enthusiasm for voting for them?

MJ LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It does. And, you know, one thing I really noticed probably the first half dozen events that I have already been out to with Elizabeth Warren is that when you talk to voters, the level of anxiety about the candidate being a woman is so much less than what I noticed in 2016. You talk to someone and you're talking about the candidate and they will sort of bring up, well, I don't know. She's a female candidate. So I don't know if the country is ready for that. That was a line that we heard a lot heading into 2016 about Hillary Clinton. That is a line that I've heard much less over the last couple of weeks in talking to voters. And I think that is just a reminder of what Hillary Clinton did achieve for the country in being the first person to go that far. So I think, in a lot of ways, the pressure is off for these women. And

I think particularly when you have multiple women in the field running at the same time, you are not the female candidate in the field, right? You are one of many female candidates in the field. But I think the other side of that is that it is all the more important for these female women to have a strong message because they are not just going to be running on the fact that they are a woman.

BERMAN: As a strategist, Jess, do you have any concerns that they will split the field? It's something that people often look at when you look at the large group of candidates.

MCINTOSH: Well, I think -- I think -- obviously the field is going to narrow by the time we get to the point where we're actually figuring out who the nominees are. I think it's very exciting right now.

I'm a lot less scared of a large field than I am of a three-way primary, which could get really ugly and I think might -- might have a risk of doing what you're suggesting. With a field this big, right now, for the next six months or so, we're just getting to know people. And these women -- I mean these women are really strong. They have really good bases of support throughout the country. They're going to be making their cases to people who don't really know them all that well yet. And that's exciting. Women don't tend to vote for a woman just because they're a woman. If that were the case, we would have had a lot of woman presidents already.

So they're going to be making their case on their merits, on their qualifications, on the agenda that they see. And I think the fact that there are women candidates winds up being a bonus when you take the rest of the thing in context.

CAMEROTA: I was so struck by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand's announcement on "Colbert," because times have changed. Times have changed. When I first got into the news business, and I think the year was about 1990 when this happened, there was a well-known female producer who I worked with who hid her pregnancy from other people because it was seen as such a disadvantage. She wouldn't be taken seriously. She wouldn't get the same jobs. She was a freelance producer. She wouldn't get the same jobs. She hid her pregnancy.

On "Colbert" this week, Kirsten Gillibrand made the case that because she's a mother of young children, she is better qualified to represent America. I mean using that as an asset. That -- times have changed in these decades.

LEE: And not just the mother of young children, but she also has, obviously, led the way in a lot of ways on the Me Too movement on Capitol Hill. She was very involved in the sexual harassment legislation on The Hill. And she is going to run on that. And she should because that is one of her accomplishments.

And the other side of that, the split screen moment that we saw this week was that someone like Bernie Sanders was actually looking backwards on the 2016 campaign at a moment when he really can't be -- can't afford to be looking backwards, right, because of the issues that came up about sexism across his campaign. He has to meet with women who had issues with that. And all the while he has other women, some of his female colleagues, who are jumping in the race and do not have those issues and can talk about these gender issues in a forceful way.

BERMAN: So, Jess, clearly you have made your position known. You would love to see a woman get the nomination.

[08:55:00] MCINTOSH: Yes. Yes.

BERMAN: But what about the men in the field? How would you like to see them --

MCINTOSH: I like men, too.

BERMAN: I'm not -- I'm not suggesting otherwise.

CAMEROTA: Are they also great or not?

BERMAN: Yesterday Alisyn made the confession here on this show --

CAMEROTA: That he's a guy.

BERMAN: Exactly.

MCINTOSH: Some of my best friends are men.

BERMAN: But how do you want to see them approach this primary?

MCINTOSH: I want them to treat the women candidates the exact same way they would treat their male counterparts. That's really the only question that needs to be applied to, how do you handle a woman running for president? We've seen now two women announce -- Elizabeth Warren and Kirsten Gillibrand -- and the immediate question is likability. That's not something that's going to happen with a male candidate. So it's just -- it's important on all of us to realize that they need to be treated exactly the same way.

CAMEROTA: That's a great reminder.

Thank you.

MJ, great to see you as well.

OK, we're moving on.

BERMAN: There we are. In today's "Good Stuff," church leaders stepping up to help people affected by the government shutdown. In Kentucky, a priest delivered pizza to TSA and air traffic controllers at Lexington Airport.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think about it, we're putting our safety, our lives in their hands and yet it seems like they're being ignored or being punished. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And an Atlanta area pastor says his parishioners raised enough money to give fellow members affected by the shutdown $300 each.

CAMEROTA: Wow. That makes a difference.

BERMAN: Look, it's wonderful. It shouldn't be necessary.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it can't last -- it can't go on much longer.

Rudy Giuliani just admitted that the Trump campaign may have actually colluded with Russia. What's that about? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)