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Bombshell Revelations in McCabe Book; DNC Announces Debate Details; Silver Offered NFL Job; Cashless Businesses. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired February 15, 2019 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00] JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: But, again, until we hear some other type of corroboration about what this context was, it will really be hard to really nail down what the president was saying and what Andy McCabe heard and what it all meant.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Laura, let me read you a response from the Justice Department yesterday. And I think it's notable, in and of itself, that Justice proper decided to put out an official statement about the leaks from the Andy McCabe book and the interview he was doing.

Justice says, as the deputy attorney general, this is Rod Rosenstein, previously has stated, based on his personal dealings with the president, there is no basis to invoke the 25th Amendment, nor was the deputy attorney general in a position to consider invoking the 25th Amendment.

Now, I will note, as a careful parser of statements, that doesn't say there weren't discussions inside Justice where it came up, but it does get back to the question I asked Greg before.

Again, this will come down to whether or not there was concern and reason for concern beyond firing James Comey or whether there was a bunch of plotters behind some kind of coup.

LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: You are a careful reader, John, and I think, in this instance, you are really on the money here. So, Justice, if they could say he didn't say it, they would say that. Instead, they're saying, he never pursued it. He never advocated for it. He never had reason to think he could invoke it. All to say none of the discussions really matter. What really mattered is that he never actually wore a wire. What really mattered is they weren't actually calling up General Kelly to try to figure out whether they could get him on board with it. So that's their pivot here because that's their one place go.

But I think the larger issue that both Greg and Josh are speaking to is, there was an atmosphere described not only by McCabe, but we've also now seen, from the former general counsel of the FBI describing how officials at the top level were concerned that the president was doing things that seemed to benefit Russia. And they didn't know whether it was completely innocent. Baker says it could have been completely innocent, but they were worried about a worst case scenario. And that worst case scenario meant that he was compromised. And because of that, they took an extraordinary step, when they're now, obviously, being criticized for by President Trump's supporters. But at least it wasn't just McCabe. And I think that's an important point to make.

CAMEROTA: Do we want to hear more excerpts of the inflammatory variety.

BERMAN: Oh, yes.

JARRETT: Of course.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: All right. This is from Andrew McCabe's new book. This is about Jeff Sessions. He writes that back in the old days, Jeff Sessions said, you all only hired Irishmen. They were drunks but they could be trusted. Not like all those new people with nose rings and tattoos.

All right, Greg, want -- you want to tackle that one?

GREG BROWER, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes, I really don't know what to make of that. You know, it's an awfully specific recitation of a -- something that Andy McCabe says he heard. I suspect that on that issue and many others McCabe's credibility will live or die by the notes that he undoubtedly took about those conversations and the extent to which he returned to the FBI building across the street after such meetings and told others exactly what he heard. And so I suspect we're going to hear more about that and we're going to probably hear McCabe's corroborating evidence. But that, needless to say, on its face, is a very disturbing statement by the former attorney general.

BERMAN: Well, Greg --

JARRETT: But, guys, I think that -- that --

BERMAN: Go ahead. Go ahead, Laura.

JARRETT: They -- they don't have a relationship. That's the -- that's the one thing to note here. Sessions and McCabe weren't buddies. They're not drinking together. They're not having frank conversations like this.

I agree with Greg, it's oddly specific. But the Achilles heel of this book for McCabe is that he was fired and the way he was fired, so unceremoniously, just hours before he was set to receive his pension after a 20 plus decorated career at the FBI. And so people who support Sessions and Rosenstein at the Justice Department can constantly point to that as a he has an axe to grind here. He has a reason that he's going after these guys.

But, again, at the same time, just because he -- Sessions and Rod and all of them said some of -- allegedly, you know, problematic things to him doesn't mean that they're not true.

BERMAN: Right.

JARRETT: But it just gives them such an easy way out because of how everything went down with how McCabe was fired.

BERMAN: Josh, let me ask you this because one of the things -- and I haven't read the book. Very few have. Greg Miller of "The Washington Post" is someone who has. And what he says is it paints a picture of the Justice Department. It's become this -- there's become this notion out there that the White House, when Donald Trump came to power, not ready for prime time, a place of chaos, that that chaos very much extended to Justice. And these criticisms of Jeff Sessions are in line with that.

You were in the FBI underneath Justice at the time. Was it chaotic?

CAMPBELL: No. So I've used that -- I've heard that word said that, you know, it was -- there was chaos, especially after, you know, the firing of James Comey. And Greg knows this as well. And I won't speak for Greg, but I'll say that my perception afterwards was, you know, it wasn't a sense of chaos, it was, you know, people saying, OK, now let's move on. Obviously we have a job to do here. We need to continue to conduct investigations. That's what the American people expect of us.

[06:35:14] Now, to be sure, there were people inside the FBI that were concerned about what the president was doing and was this possible obstruction of justice, but it wasn't as though people were running around with their hair on fire. It was a very methodical approach, OK, what do we do next? So however this is described in the book, again, a lot of us who actually lived it are going to look at it and try to decide, was this really the experience that we lived?

CAMEROTA: Josh, Greg, Laura, thank you very much.

So Democrats are expecting a full house for the first presidential primary debates.

BERMAN: Olsen twins?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Not that kind of full house?

CAMEROTA: Not that kind.

BERMAN: John Stamos?

CAMEROTA: Not your favorite kind of full house, no. A different kind of full house. And there are new rules that they are setting up for these debates.

BERMAN: Bob Saget?

CAMEROTA: No. No, John, there's nothing about that "Full House."

The DNC Chairman Tom Perez is going to join us with their new plan and how many debates they're going to have.

BERMAN: Not even one Olsen?

CAMEROTA: No. None.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:40:00] CAMEROTA: The 2020 Democratic field continues to grow. How many more people will join those faces that you see on your screen right now? And we do have some new details about the debate schedule for the Democratic side. The very first Democratic debates will be spread over two nights back to back. The DNC has just announced the details. The first debate will be held in June. The second debate will be this July. That one will be hosted by CNN. And there are new rules for how candidates can qualify to get on that stage.

Joining us now is Tom Perez. He's the chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

Chairman Perez, good morning.

TOM PEREZ, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Always great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: Great to have you.

So, how do they qualify? What's the criteria for getting on the stage now?

PEREZ: Well, this is unprecedented because in the past the only things that happened was polling. And that's the only way to get on the stage. We have a polling criteria, but we also have a grassroots fundraising criteria because we really want to reward campaigns that are investing in the grassroots. So if you are -- and we came up with this criteria by taking a look at the public financing laws that have been on the books for decades. We modernized them. We consulted with Act Blue (ph), which is basically the grassroots Democratic Party fundraising epicenter. And so if you have shown that you can raise money in the grassroots, 65,000 unique donors, and you have to have 200 donors -- a minimum of 200 donors in 20 states, then you can get on the stage.

CAMEROTA: OK.

PEREZ: And it's not -- this is -- this won't be easy. It's not a lay- up. But it's not a full court shot.

CAMEROTA: OK.

PEREZ: And we're very excited about this because, again, this is unprecedented. We want to make sure that if you're out there connecting with the grassroots, you can get on the debate stage.

I think it's also really important, and we're excited to be partnering with CNN, having two consecutive nights of prime time, weeknights.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREZ: And also the fact that we will be randomly selecting the -- how you participate. So let's say there's --

CAMEROTA: Yes, I want to ask you about that.

PEREZ: Sure.

CAMEROTA: The randomized aspect. There will no kids table as was described last time around on the Republican side. In other words, there's not an "a" team and a "b" team. You're mixing it all up over those two nights.

PEREZ: You know, we have spectacular candidates and we want to give them an opportunity to show the American people their vision. People say, wow, you have a large field. I say, absolutely, we have a great field. And by having random selection for the first two debates and having the first two debates on consecutive nights, I think these are going to be two of the most widely-watched debates, frankly, in American history because it's never been done this way before.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about the field. How many people are you planning for?

PEREZ: Well, we -- we can hold up to 20 people in these two debates because, again, consecutive nights. We had 10 --

CAMEROTA: So ten each. And --

PEREZ: We -- right.

CAMEROTA: And do you think there will be 20 candidates?

PEREZ: Time will tell. But we wanted to make sure we were able, if necessary, to accommodate a large field.

And, again, it's not simply saying you're going to run for president. You're going to have to meet these criteria.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREZ: So you've got to get out there and run a national campaign and that's why our grassroots fundraising criteria I think really promotes that.

We saw Barack Obama in 2008, he -- one key to his success was he totally energized our grassroots. And this is -- this is designed to help do that, this format.

CAMEROTA: I mean if there's more than 20 candidates, obviously then your criteria will kick in and you'll have to figure out who's raised the most grassroots funds and polling.

PEREZ: Yes, we -- and we'll -- sure. I mean we'll cross that bridge if we come to it. And we have contingencies for that. But I'll tell you, the thing that excites me the most is being able to have two nights in a row on prime time where the candidates can talk directly to the American people.

And we're going to be talking about issues. There's going to be no discussion about hand size. We're going to be talking about healthcare. We're going to be talking about good jobs that pay a middle class wage. We're going to be talking about how we bring down the cost of prescription drugs and make sure, if you have a preexisting condition, you can keep your healthcare.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PEREZ: That's what these debates are going focus on. And I think the American people are going to see the depth of our field. They're going to see the differences between what we are doing as Democrats, what we are fighting for, and what this president is fighting against. We need to win in 2020 and I think this format is going to help us do exactly that.

CAMEROTA: OK, I want to ask you about the DNC's position on what President Trump is planning today, and that is to declare a national emergency to get, we're told, $8 billion to build his wall circumnavigating Congress.

[06:45:00] PEREZ: Well, satisfying Rush Limbaugh and making sure you have a political trophy is not a national emergency. This is ridiculous. He will face problems in the Congress and he will face problems in the court because the Congress, I'm confident, will take up a resolution of disapproval. Once the House does it, the Senate must do it.

You heard so many Republicans in the run-up to this most recent invented crisis of the president say you should not to do this. Republicans have done this. So once you pass it, the resolution of disapproval in the House, it will go to the Senate. And those Republicans in the Senate who said he should not this, this will be a put up and shut up moment for them.

And, again, I have no doubt that this will then go to the courts. And, again, justifying a national emergency because Rush Limbaugh is chattering in your ear, that's just not the definition of a national emergency.

This is ridiculous. But he's got to satisfy his base and scratch that itch.

CAMEROTA: Chairman Tom Perez, thank you very much for sharing all of the details and more with us.

PEREZ: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, a programing note. Democratic Candidate Senator Amy Klobuchar will take part in a CNN town hall with Don Lemon this Monday at 10:00 p.m. in New Hampshire.

BERMAN: So did the NFL court NBA Commissioner Adam Silver to jump sports? Details in the "Bleacher Report," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:50:30] BERMAN: So you've heard about two sport athletes. How about a two-sport commissioner?

Coy Wire has more in the "Bleacher Report."

Coy.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.

According to ESPN, several unnamed owners tried to convince NBA Commissioner Adam Silver to take the same role for the NFL before Roger Goodell's contract was extended just about a year ago. Silver has led the NBA to new heights since he took over five years ago. League revenues have almost doubled to a projected $9.1 billion. He's been highly regarded for supporting players on social issues and he didn't confirm that he was approached, but did he tell ESPN, quote, I'll just say I have not given it any thought. I've loved every day I've been in this job and I think there's nothing but enormous opportunity ahead for this league. That's where 100 percent of my focus is, unquote.

Now, Silver's current contract with the NBA runs until 2024, while Goodell's contract goes through 2022. And it's worth up to $200 million.

Finally, take a look at this. This is a way to get your kids to learn science. Jonathan Clark teaches middle school full time, but uses his part-time job as a pro dunker to explain gravity while defying it. How cool is this, Alisyn and John?

He was the Harlem Globetrotter in the past. He went on to earn his master's degree and he's now just doing these incredible things for the students at Clovis (ph) California School District. Cool stuff. That will get you to pay attention.

CAMEROTA: It does get me to pay attention. I loved the Harlem Globetrotters, but I think he's taking it to a new level here. That is incredible.

BERMAN: Where -- where were these teachers when I was in school?

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

All right, Coy, thank you me much.

WIRE: You're welcome.

CAMEROTA: So, cashless business are on the rise, but not everyone is happy about it. All that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:56:28] CAMEROTA: Lots of businesses across America are going cashless. They argue it saves time and money and prevents theft. But there is a downside. CNN "EARLY START" anchor Dave Briggs has more. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVE BRIGGS, ANCHOR, CNN'S "EARLY START" (voice over): Cold, hard cash is becoming lukewarm in many establishments across the country, replaced by a growing trend of cashless businesses requiring credit card or smartphone app payment only.

MICHAEL KAPLAN, CO-OWNER, TWO FORKS RESTAURANT: We get very little resistance towards it. Most people are encouraging of it.

BRIGGS: Michael Kaplan co-owns Two Forks Restaurant in New York City specializing in all natural, slow-cooked ingredients. As for the experience, customers expect it fast. One of the main reasons Two Forks is cashless.

KAPLAN: For us it's really a matter of speed, efficiency, and safety for our team and our guest. The analytics that we've done show that we could actually get more people through the line in a quicker period of time by avoiding the need to take cash and only using credit card.

BRIGGS: From coast to coast, the cashless movement is catching on. Amazon Go stores and fast casual chains like Sweet Green, Tender Greens, Dig In and Dos Toros all accept digital payment only.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The quicker you can keep people moving along, the better it is for everybody. The better it is for the business. The better it is for the consumer.

BRIGGS (on camera): According to a research Pew Research study, roughly three in ten American adults say they make no purchases with cash during a typical week. That same research showed it is lower income Americans who roughly four times as likely to make all of their purchases with cash.

BRIGGS (voice over): Lawmakers in D.C., New York, and other cities have proposed legislation banning establishments from denying cash payments, suggesting the policy is discriminatory.

RITCHIE TORRES, NYC COUNCIL MEMBER: Twenty-five percent of New Yorkers are under banks, right? And there continue to be barriers to accession credit in the poorest parts of our city.

BRIGGS: New York City Councilman Ritchie Torres introduced a bill late last year banning cashless business. The bill would also fine establishments per offense.

BRIGGS (on camera): Have you found it racially discriminatory.

TORRES: It has a disparate impact on communities of color. Right, African-Americans and Latinos are disproportionately homeless, disproportionately undocumented, and disproportionately under banked.

BRIGGS (voice over): There are alternatives, however, for the unbanked. Prepaid cards can be easily obtained at a variety of locations or through major credit card companies. If you're not carrying a card, Kaplan and others will work with you. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't have any cards.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you very much, enjoy. Have a great day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, thank you.

BRIGGS (on camera): It strikes me as anti-free market.

TORRES: I have no blind faith in the free market. There's no reason to think that the market alone is going to protect against discrimination. That has never been true.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRIGGS: Now, just this week, legislation was introduced in both San Francisco and Philadelphia to ban cashless business. If cash is all you carry, just about every major credit card company does allow some type of free, no fee debit card. And that's, of course, all I have in my pocket.

Guys, back to you.

BERMAN: And I will take that from you before you go.

BRIGGS: You got it.

BERMAN: Dave Briggs, it's a fascinating look because this is where things are headed. Thank you so much for that.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Dave.

BERMAN: And thank you to our international viewers. For you, CNN "TALK" is next. For our U.S. viewers, President Trump set to declare a national emergency over the border wall. Is it, in fact, an emergency? Is this in any way constitutional? NEW DAY continues right now.

[07:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The plan is now set for the president to declare a national emergency.

END