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Sudan's Dictator Referred for Prosecution; Unanswered Questions for Mueller Report; Ivanka Trump Returns to World Stage with Africa Trip. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 15, 2019 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Democratic presidential candidate Cory Booker. He has also officially jumped in. He is going to join us as well.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Also ahead, an incredible story of survival. You'll remember -- take a look at this video, OK. Watch what happens here. A little girl gets hit by this car. Look at that. Nine years old. She survives. She will join us because she's out of the hospital. That's next hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, breaking news.

CNN has just learned that Sudan's ousted dictator and other regime figures will be formally referred for prosecution in the next few days.

Our colleague, Nima Elbagir, joins us live from the capital of Khartoum with the breaking details.

What can you tell us?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is an absolutely extraordinary piece of news to be able to report that the (INAUDIBLE) dictator of Sudan for over three decades is now not only detained and under house arrest, but is now formally being put forward to stand trial domestically for the crimes perpetrated, the council is saying, against the people, corruption charges, charges for his implications in the deaths of protesters.

[06:35:09] But not just him, Poppy. It's him, it's his former interior minister, it's the former head of the ruling party, all three indicted war criminals.

For people here, this is, of course, a time of just extraordinary joy. We went along to one of the all-night sit-ins and it actually felt like a party. Somebody described it to me as a party with a purpose. And -- and that's the really key point that people want to get across here. There is a purpose. The sit-ins continue. In fact, if anything, Poppy and Alisyn, the numbers are growing because people that we're speaking to say that they have waited so long for this that they will refuse to leave until they get what they think the Sudanese people deserve, which is a civilian rule, democracy, freedom. They said to me, we want what we see other people having.

And last time, Poppy and Alisyn, we spoke, it was after I had left here a couple of weeks ago having reported under cover. The last time we were here, we had to hide because just reporting on the reality of what this regime was doing in Sudan carried the death penalty. This is the first time for me as a Sudanese to report from inside Sudan without my head covered. I mean it is almost --

HARLOW: Wow.

ELBAGIR: Hard to believe. I hope that I'm able to just put across to you how extraordinary this moment is, but also how committed the young people manning these barricades are.

HARLOW: Yes.

ELBAGIR: And they believe that they deserve it and that they're not going to leave until they get what they came here for.

Poppy.

HARLOW: It's remarkable and the reporting you've done on the ground weeks ago and through the years, you know, deserves so much credit to shedding light on exactly what has happened and the strains of the people and reporters for decades have been under, under that leadership.

Thank you very, very much, Nima, we appreciate it, live from Khartoum, Sudan, for us.

All right, the attorney general's version of the Mueller report could be released as soon as today. What are the big questions still that need to be answered? We'll dig into that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:41:03] HARLOW: All right, Attorney General William Barr's version of the Mueller report could be released any moment. So far we only know what Barr's four-page summary says about Mueller's team's findings. So what big questions will remind once we get that? Again, redacted Mueller report.

Joining us now, John Avlon, our senior political analyst, and Elie Honig, former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst.

Good morning to you both.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

HARLOW: So, Elie, when -- when you were sitting by my side last week and we were watching two days of Barr's testimony, there was one question that you were itching for a member of Congress to ask on the House side they didn't ask it. On the Senate side, they did.

What other questions out that, that remain for you when you look at Barr's version of the Mueller report? ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I have a lot of questions, Poppy. But I

think the biggest one relates to obstruction of justice. Why did Mueller decide to make a yes or no prosecutorial decision and who did he intend to make a decision, who did he intend -- some people have said punt -- who did he intend to punt to? I think William Barr made pretty clear last week he was asked a bit that it was not really intended for him, that he decided on his own to come in and say no go on obstruction.

And so one of the things I'll be looking for is, where did Mueller intend to send that decision? Was it, in fact, to Congress? And, if so, then I think that will show us that William Barr really overstepped and made a political move when he jumped in and made that decision instead.

HARLOW: And, remember, Barr said in his testimony, John, that he offered Mueller to review the four-page letter and that Mueller declined.

One of the things I'm interested in, and our colleague Marshall Cohen (ph) lays it out really well in his new CNN piece, is, will we see in the -- in the redacted Mueller report an ethical or moral set of conclusions, right? X, y and z perhaps didn't break the law, but it was unethical or it was morally questionable. And that matters, right, when you're talking about the highest office in the land, obviously.

AVLON: It certainly matters in terms of the scope of the presidency, but it doesn't matter when it comes to any legal proceedings. And that's really the question, has Mueller been focusing solely on a narrow, legal definition about what is chargeable and questions about what the president can be charged, and does he say anywhere in this voluminous report that these actions occurred and they were beneath the dignity of the office of the president? Something of that nature.

And on obstruction, I'll just add to what Elie said, one of the real questions that needs to be answered is, given what we know that's in the public record about the president's statements like to Lester Holt, to Ambassador Kislyak, that would seem to indicate obstruction, what was the countervailing evidence?

HARLOW: Right, because the word, Elie Honig, that was used in the Barr four-page summary was "most." Most were done in public, right, not all.

HONIG: Yes. Yes.

AVLON: Yes.

HONIG: And I found that rally interesting. And what I read from that most were done in public was almost -- almost a way of Barr saying, well, they were so obvious, they were so out there that he could not -- that Trump could not have had the criminal intent. It's almost a version of too dumb to intend to collude because you -- you wouldn't just say this out loud if you really had criminal intent.

Now, I disagree with that. I've seen plenty of criminals who conduct their conduct right out there in the open, right, who are flagrant. So I thought it was interesting that Barr made that assessment. But I think that's a really interesting question because the obstruction -- we all know what Trump did. He did a lot of it right out there in the open. There's other things he did behind closed doors. I'm going to be looking to see what did Don McGahn tell the special counsel, what did others from inside the White House.

But when it comes to the things that Trump said publically, how does Mueller analyze and assess the intent there?

HARLOW: John.

AVLON: And that's going to be one of the really fascinating key questions. I think one of the things the White House is most nervous about is, what did Don McGahn say and is that reflected in the report in totality?

HARLOW: Just -- you made me think of something. You know a man named Rudy --

AVLON: I love when that happens.

HARLOW: You made a -- you know a man well named Rudy Giuliani, given -- given your --

AVLON: I'm familiar with his work.

HARLOW: Yes, given your prior employment.

Let's talk about his plan because our reporting last night from Dana Bash is he's going to come out hard, he's going to come out strong. We know they're already drafting over a hundred pages of a response here that they will tweak once they see the -- the redacted Mueller report. But that -- Dana's reporting is that Giuliani is going to be a big part of the response here.

[06:45:03] AVLON: Yes. Well, Rudy has certainly been playing the court of public opinion for Donald Trump. That's been his core purpose. What's stunning is, in a report that according to the Barr four-page letter vindicates the president, exonerates him on questions of collusion, jump ball on questions of obstruction, but Barr certainly stepped in and said it's not criminal.

They're still issuing a rebuttal report, to something that apparently went their way.

HARLOW: That's interesting.

AVLON: And I think it indicates to the degree to which they're -- they are just going to constantly try to hammer the ref. And the second part that I think you're starting to see teased, not only by Attorney General Barr, but also by Rudy, is this drumbeat of investigating the investigators, i.e. the real collusion is with the Democrats. The -- you know, and really trying to put the heat on them. That's about politics. That's about letting (ph) the message. And that's why it's so important that we all look at what's in the Mueller report, in its totality, to the extent we're able to see it absent the redactions or with the redactions, and then the whole spin war that's going to occur, try to keep that on the sidelines as much as possible. That's pure politics.

HARLOW: OK. Try being the operative word.

AVLON: Try.

HARLOW: Elie Honig, a few other interesting questions that I think so many of us have out of the redacted Mueller report is, how many related investigations are still ongoing, and also what countries assisted in the investigation. Obviously we know Australia because of Papadopoulos, but, you know, what other countries, right?

HONIG: Yes. So the related investigations is obviously hugely important. I think we've already seen evidence. We know that Mueller has referred out pieces of the remaining cases to the Southern District of New York, to the U.S. attorney here in Washington, D.C., and elsewhere. So there are a lot of tentacles from this case, and we'll continue to see those cases build.

I do not think the report will contain an itemized list of here are other cases that I farmed out. And if it does, that will likely -- very likely be redacted.

HARLOW: Yes.

HONIG: So we're not going to have a number or anything like that.

And the international assistance question is interesting because clearly Mueller got a lot of information from, I think, over a dozen countries through what lawyers call a m-lat (ph), a mutual legal assistance treaty. The hope here -- I think everyone's hope is there's no diplomatic fallout from the U.S. towards any countries who assisted Mueller because any evidence that other countries gave Robert Mueller was pursuant to those treaties, was completely lawful, was done through established channels and there should absolutely not be any backlash against those countries who helped out Mueller. That's -- we've agreed to do business with those countries.

HARLOW: Well, and, by the way, if the president's team holds their line that there's nothing bad for the president in the Mueller report, why would there be, right?

HONIG: Yes. Shouldn't be.

HARLOW: Any -- upset at all with any countries in helping.

Thank you very much. Elie, John, always good to have you both.

So, Ivanka Trump is on a four day trip to Africa promoting a White House initiative for women. What does she hope to establish there? We'll have a live report from Ethiopia, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:51:38] HARLOW: All right, Ivanka Trump back on the world stage with a trip to Africa. The first daughter is meeting with business owners in Ethiopia today.

Our colleague Robyn Kriel is in the Ethiopian capital with more.

This is a four day trip for her. This is pushing women in economics, which is her major platform.

What can you tell us?

ROBYN KRIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's really been interesting that female economic empowerment platform, focusing, we believe here in Ethiopia, on the cultural and legal barriers to women getting ahead in business. And she's had thus far a very Instagram worthy trip. She started off with a coffee tasting ceremony. She then moved to a female run textile factor. And then, this morning, Poppy, having a moment of silence at the local Holy Trinity Church, an Ethiopian orthodox church, honoring those 157 passengers who were killed on Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. Eight of those, Poppy, were American.

But what we understand that as important as this trip is for, you know, female entrepreneurship in Africa, it also is serving a very strategic purpose for the United States and particularly their Africa policy, her father's Africa policy on countering China in Africa. And there's nowhere more visible -- that you can see more visible the Chinese influence here on the African continent as in Addis Adaba. They have industrial parks. They've built a rapid transit. They've, in fact, constructed the African union as well. And we believe that that is in large part, this trade and investment push. She's here with, of course, the head of OPEC, the international investment. She's here with USAID, also a huge investor in Africa through aid programs. And as we know, she's heading next to the Ivory Coast.

Poppy.

HARLOW: Robyn, thank you very much for reporting for us live from Ethiopia this morning.

OK, "Game of Thrones" fans, the wait is over for all of you. We'll let you know just how many people actually watched last night's season eight premiere of the HBO show this afternoon when those first ratings come out. Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You used to be taller.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you sneak up on me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you survive a knife through the heart?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Suspense. Now to the surprise of some DirecTV now customers, customers, they were able to get a head start on watching the premiere. A technical error allowed those customers to watch it four hours before it was scheduled to air, which means if I had known that, I could have watched before I went to bed.

All right, "Saturday Night Live" had Lori Loughlin and Michael Avenatti sharing a jail cell. Here are your "Late Night Laughs."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm the craziest dude in here. Stabbed my neighbor to death and then ate his fingers so they couldn't ID the body

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Man, that's insane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes? You think that's insane? I paid 500 grand to get my daughter into USC

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you in here for, speeding tickets?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speeding tickets. (INAUDIBLE), I'm accused of crimes you can't even conceive of, like blackmailing a sneaker company, and stealing taxes from a coffee shop to fund a race car team. And I'm so shady that a porn star once said that she needed to distance herself from me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is -- this is the problem, you're demonizing entire countries full of nice people.

[06:55:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I did not say that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, can you -- can you let me finish?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, can you let me talk?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, can you let me finish?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, can you let me talk?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you let me finish?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it's actually your job to listen to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, OK, OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: That was so good. All right.

Ahead, just the remarkable story of the Tiger Woods comeback. He suffered injuries and personal scandals that nearly ended his career. Now Tiger Woods is savoring an epic comeback, clinching a fifth Masters title more than a decade later. The story everyone is talking about, next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a moment people thought they would never see again.

[07:00:03] TIGER WOODS, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: I knew it was in me. Did I know it was going to be this week? No.

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't think Congress are smart enough to look.

END