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NYT: As Trump Seeks to Remain a Political Force, New Targets Emerge; Dominion Files $1.3B Defamation Lawsuit Against Rudy Giuliani; President Biden Discusses Necessity of Impeachment Trial of former President Trump; Senator Gary Peters (D-MI) Interviewed on Upcoming Impeachment Trial of Former President Trump; Tornado Hits City in Alabama. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 26, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And we begin with a history moment in Washington, House managers delivering the sole article of impeachment against former President Trump to the Senate last night. They made this somber walk through the same corridor where a pro-Trump mob tried to stop lawmakers from counting the electoral votes less than three weeks ago, and may have tried to do more to them.

This morning, senators will be sworn in as jurors. This is only the fourth impeachment trial ever of a U.S. president. This morning we break down for you what we know about possible witnesses who will preside over the trial, when it will happen, and whether 17 Republicans could be swayed to convict.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Overnight, what I think is some remarkable journalism, a hallway interview inside the White House. You don't know, it's rare to bump into the president in the hallways in the West Wing and then get him some questions that he answers. But our new chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, she managed to do it, and she managed to get President Biden to talk about impeachment in a way he hasn't before. The president told her he thinks the trial has to happen for the country, but also says he does not think there are enough votes to convict the former president.

And breaking overnight, at least one person is dead, dozens injured after a large tornado tore through the Birmingham, Alabama, area. You can see some of the power stations there exploding. You can see some of the damage that has been done there. These are some of our first images as the light comes up there. We have a live report from the scene in just a few minutes.

We're going to begin, though, with CNN's Jeremy Diamond live at the White House as we are now in the very first stages of this historic new impeachment trial. Jeremy?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Good morning, John. In delivering that Article of Impeachment to the Senate last night, those House impeachment managers triggered the first ever impeachment trial of a former president. Now this trial won't begin for another two weeks, but it will give President Trump, former President Trump, two weeks to prepare his defense, and give current President Joe Biden time to confirm more of his cabinet nominees.

Now, White House officials have told us, and they've made this very clear, that they are not focused on this impeachment trial. They'd much rather focus on the coronavirus relief bill that they are pushing through Congress, focus on the executive actions they are rolling out every day. But President Biden caught up with our colleague Kaitlan Collins just last night in the halls of the West Wing, and he made very clear that he sees this impeachment trial as inevitable and necessary. He said, quote, I think it has to happen. He acknowledged that there could be some impact on his legislative attempts here, but he said that he thinks there will be a worse effect if it didn't happen.

Now, those senators will be sworn in today, even though the trial doesn't start for another two weeks. Patrick Leahy, the president pro tempore will preside over the trial instead of the Chief Justice John Roberts. What's still unclear here, a couple of questions. Will there be witnesses in this trial, and how long this trial will take. Those are questions that have yet to be fully answered, but we will find out in the coming weeks.

In the meantime, though, more time for Joe Biden to get more of his cabinet nominees confirmed. We expect his Secretary of State nominee Tony Blinken to be confirmed at some point today. And then you also have some action in Senate committees on Biden's nominees for Commerce Secretary and DHS as well. Yesterday, though, already, Janet Yellen becoming the first woman to be confirmed as Treasury Secretary. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Jeremy, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

Joining us to talk about this and more, we have Michigan Democratic Senator Gary Peters. He will be sworn in later today as impeachment juror. Senator, thanks so much for being here. What do you think is the most compelling piece of evidence to convict former President Trump?

SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): I think the most compelling evidence is something we all witnessed. We all witnessed it on live TV across the country. I was in the building with my colleagues in the United States Senate when we had a violent mob attack the Capitol. We know that the president incited that earlier -- not just earlier, but actually over two months by constantly lying about the election, saying that it was stolen and that folks needed to take action. He tweeted come to Washington, it's going to be wild on January 6th, and interfere with the constitutional process of counting the electoral votes that were cast across the country, but really reflecting the will of the American people. So it is very clear, and the entire country saw it with their own eyes.

CAMEROTA: And so do you think that there will be a need for live witnesses, or is this the tale of the videotape?

PETERS: Well, we'll have to see. I don't know. I don't want to speculate. That's going to be the House managers that are going to put their case together. I'm sure it will be a strong case, but as I mentioned, it's one that we all lived as well.

[08:05:00]

And it's something that we cannot tolerate. We have to hold the president accountable. We've never had a United States president in the history of this country incite a violent mob to attack the United States Capitol and disrupt a constitutional process of going forward, which is the peaceful transfer of power. It is absolutely essential that there is accountability for us to move forward.

CAMEROTA: And so, Senator, what about what President Biden told our Kaitlan Collins last night when she was able to pull him aside in the White House. He said, like you, I think it has to happen, but he went on to say, Biden told CNN he believed the outcome would be different if Trump had six months left in his term. But said he doesn't think 17 Republican senators will vote to convict Trump. And so if it's a fait accompli, and you won't be able to get 17 Republican senators, what's the -- does that take some of the steam out of even going through this exercise?

PETERS: I don't think so at all. Let's wait to see where senators are when they actually vote. The evidence is very clear. It's interesting some of the arguments they're making right now are not about the merits of the case. Clearly the merits of the case are overwhelming. And I think this is really about future presidents. We need to send a strong signal to future presidents that this type of behavior will never be tolerated. It will be called out, and the American people will condemn a president of the United States that incites a violent mob to attack the very core pillars of our democracy. It's not something you can sweep underneath the rug. You have to bring it forward. You have to prosecute it aggressively. And then we move forward. But it can never happen again.

CAMEROTA: Do you agree with President Biden that you won't get 17 Republican senators?

PETERS: Well, I won't say that yet. Let's hope that my colleagues will rise above partisanship and do what's right for the country and for the future of this nation. So I haven't given up hope yet.

CAMEROTA: Last night, Mitch McConnell, Senate minority leader, relented in his demand for a guarantee for keeping the filibuster. Did that surprise you?

PETERS: Well, to me, it was very straightforward. When you think about it, this was an organizing resolution just for us to go about the business of the Senate, to be able to form our committees, assign committee members, to be able to move forward with the business. And certainly, this is something that's never been controversial in the past. The fact that Senator McConnell brought this as a controversy doesn't bode well for the future, but I'm pleased we're able to move forward.

CAMEROTA: You are on the Senate Homeland Security Committee, so what is the hold up with President Biden's nominee, his pick to run DHS?

PETERS: Right now we have a hold up. We have one senator that has a hold, but we are going to be moving forward later today in committee. We have Mr. Mayorkas to be secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, which is absolutely critical. The fact there's any kind of hold up on this appointment and confirmation is simply outrageous. When you think about what people expect of the federal government, and there are a lot of different views of what the federal government should do and should not do, but the one thing all Americans agree on is that it should keep us safe. And that means the Department of Homeland Security. It means the Department of Defense.

We now have a defense secretary. We need a secretary of Homeland Security as well, especially given the attack that we saw on the Capitol, the rise of extremist groups and white supremacy, the cyberattack we saw, one of the most damaging cyberattacks that we've ever had in this country. The Department of Homeland Security needs steady leadership, it needs that leadership now, and hopefully we can move it forward as quickly as possible.

CAMEROTA: But is it a coincidence that that one senator, Senator Josh Hawley, who was seen raising his fist in seeming solidarity with the mob that invaded the Capitol, just as domestic terrorism is spiking in this country, extremism, why do you think Senator Josh Hawley was the one person to block this?

PETERS: I don't know what that is. I think you're best asking him as to why he would block the secretary of Homeland Security, which is a person entrusted to make sure that he can keep us safe and to deal with the rise of what we're seeing, extremist groups and white supremacist groups. To me, it makes no sense, and we need to get this confirmation through. We have a department that over the last four years has really suffered from the lack of steady leadership. We have now former secretaries of Homeland Security coming out in a bipartisan way saying get this through quickly. Make this confirmation. You have a highly qualified candidate. We need to have him at the head of that department so we can focus on these threats to our Homeland Security. And, quite frankly, I think any senator that blocks an actual vote is not thinking about the best interests of our country.

CAMEROTA: We'll see what happens today. Senator Gary Peters, thank you very much for your time. Great to have you on NEW DAY.

PETERS: Great to be with you.

[08:10:01]

CAMEROTA: John?

BERMAN: We do have breaking news. At least one person is dead, more than two dozen hurt after a powerful tornado ripped through parts of Alabama overnight. You can see some of the images now. The storm caused significant damage in the Birmingham area. Buildings collapsed there. And we do understand there are still people trapped in their homes. Joining us now is Stoney Sharp, he's a reporter for CNN affiliate WBMA. Stoney, what can you tell us about what you're seeing and the situation on the ground?

STONEY SHARP, WBMA-TV REPORTER: Good morning, John. Right now, in Alabama, the sun is rising, so we can see the depth of the damage here in Fultondale, Alabama. We're located off New Castle Road here right against Oak Street. That's where all the damage is, pretty much. Three houses in a row have been damaged, 20 altogether in this area, but you can see three houses here. This is a kitchen. You can see the rooster clock here that used to be hanging on a wall right up here in this area. We also see some plates, some pots and pans and personal items that were on -- in this house here.

Beyond that, right down the strip here, you can see a second house, a bedroom there. A mattress, a fan that has fallen. You can see straight into that house. And then the third house is up above that, also damaged. You can see straight through.

Now as my photographer pans around and shows you the rest of the damage in this area, we know right now, according to the fire chief, one person has been confirmed dead. They say that there could be more -- 17 people altogether have been rushed to the hospital and 11 people were treated here at the scene.

The tornado pushed through Fultondale around 10:30 last night. So again, a lot has been going on. This is the back of Oak Street that he's looking at right now. That's where the majority of the damage occurred. And we're told that search and rescue operations in that area were halted overnight because fire crews didn't know which power lines were on, which power lines were turned off. So pretty much they had to stop search and rescue in that area, but they plan to return within this hour to start searching for more people. They say more people could be trapped in their homes, again, in Fultondale, Alabama.

According to the firefighters, they say that 20 homes altogether in this area were reduced to the subfloor, that they plan to find many more homes damaged as they come out in about an hour.

Live in Fultondale, Alabama, I'm Stoney Sharp.

BERMAN: All right, our thanks to Stoney Sharp for that. The news that more people could be trapped inside those buildings, Stoney, please keep us posted if you hear more.

We're also getting some new reporting this morning on what the former president is doing, how he intends to wield his political power. Exactly who is being targeted? This is very interesting. He apparently wants to punish people. Who? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:46]

BERMAN: All right. Brand-new reporting this morning on what the former president is doing. More specifically, how he intends to wield whatever political power he has -- and the key word might be "punish".

CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman broke this story. She's a Washington correspondent for "The New York Times".

Maggie, thanks so much for being with us.

There is a lot in this story, but I want to start with what jumped out to me. Basically, you're saying the former president has a list of people he wants to punish now. Who is on that list, and how will he do it?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: John, that's right.

The former president, as we know, has often been focused on retribution and this moment in time is no exception, although he's taking a few months off or has told people he's taking a few months off to lay low.

Chief among those targets has been is Governor Brian Ryan Kemp of Georgia. You know, the president has considered the original sin Kemp committed against him after Trump helped him win to be picking Senator Kelly Loeffler as the replacement for an open seat in Georgia. The president wanted Doug Collins to be chosen. That did not happen. And since then, the president has been blaming Kemp and the secretary of state in Georgia for essentially not throwing the election his way.

Next up to his target list is Liz Cheney, congresswoman from Wyoming and number three in House GOP leadership. It's not clear what he'd like to see her lose, her seat or leadership position but he plans on doing what he can to try to impact that.

And then there are a bunch of House targets. There are -- there's Representative Gonzales in Ohio. There is Representative Upton in Michigan. These are people who voted in favor of impeachment and who were very, very critical of the president in his mind of the actions he took on January 6th.

The list goes on, John. It's not clear what infrastructure the president is even going to have to make good on these threats, but this is the message that he's sending out to the lieutenants who are still around him now.

CAMEROTA: So, that's his hit list and then, Maggie, what are his plans to remain relevant? I mean, if he's taking a couple or a few months off and he's off Twitter, what's his plan to still be in the mix?

HABERMAN: Listen, Alisyn, it's a great question. I will say that, and I said this when he was president, too, saying -- there's a difference between being silenced and de-platformed. He has not been silenced. He is a former president. He can get -- you know, give an interview tomorrow if he wanted to. He's not going to do that.

And I think part of why he's not going to do that is because he's facing this impeachment trial and he's facing potential other legal exposure related not just to January 6th riot but all sorts of other things during his administration and his business. So, I think he wants to take some scope and measure of what exactly is out there in the first place. He doesn't want to do himself harm or at least his advisers have urged

himself not to do himself harm by trying to talk.

Whether he can sustain that is a question. He has been -- he has had some form of attention in the form of media or in the form of contacts, who he'd work the phones with. There's none of that right now. So, how does he stay relevant?

I think what will happen is some kind of combination of spending the money that he has in his super PAC. It's just over $78 million and potentially getting back on social media in some form, which his aides are talking about. They're also talking about starting a social media platform of his own.

[08:12:03]

I am a little skeptical that will happen but you can't rule anything out.

BERMAN: Something happened yesterday in the midst of all your reporting on what the former president will do that I think fits nicely into the puzzle which is that Ohio Senator Rob Portman announced that he's not running for re-election, which is interesting.

I mean, here's a guy who has been a public servant for decades at this point and he said, I can't do it anymore. I've had enough of the bickering. And the subtext there is that in this world where Donald Trump is running the Republican Party, I'm not sure exactly where I fit in that party.

How do you see this move by Rob Portman? What does it mean for Jim Jordan? What will the president do for Jim Jordan? Explain.

HABERMAN: Look, I take Rob Portman at his word, John, that the Senate is not a particularly happy place to be for a lot of folks, particularly Republicans right now. They have lost their majority. They are a bit at sea as to what the post-Trump world looks like. They're facing this impeachment trial that a bunch of them are ambivalent about, even if privately many of them acknowledge they're unhappy about how the president acted.

I do think that the president will try to have influence in that race but whether he gets behind Jim Jordan who has been a vocal ally of the president or whether he tries to get behind another potential candidate, someone like a Jane Timken, or, you know, there's a range of folks, I think he will try to leave an imprint on that race.

We saw him do it last week in the Arizona County -- excuse me, Arizona State GOP chair's race where he pushed for Kelly Ward to get re- elected. I think that you're going to see him doing things like that as related to Ohio and a couple of other races.

CAMEROTA: Maggie, do you have any reporting on what President Trump's mindset is? Is he worried about this upcoming Senate trial that more information will come out about what he did before and during the insurrection, and why he was MIA for all of those hours when people were calling, begging him for some sort of intervention and for help?

HABERMAN: It's a great question, Alisyn. I don't think he particularly worries about that. I do think some of his advisers are worried about that, especially because even though, as I reported and I think Kaitlan Collins reported at the time, he was resisting efforts to get him to call in the national guard or make an effort to push for National Guard to arrive on the scene that he was not moving quickly to do that at all.

I don't think the president sees himself in peril. Some of his advisers are worried about what could end up showing up.

This is where their belief there are not enough Republicans to convict is going to help them, they think, because they don't see at the moment more than five, maybe six senators voting along with Democrats to convict the president. What they care about at the end of the day is what the outcome is, not what additional evidence might come out. However, if additional evidence comes out that could be reflected in civil cases filed against the president or potential criminal charges by the Washington attorney, that's something to consider, but I don't think that's what the president himself is focused on.

BERMAN: Maggie, we have to let you. But just to be clear, your reporting on this is he wasn't just MIA during the insurrection. He was watching and enjoying what he was seeing, correct?

HABERMAN: He was watching, enjoying what he was seeing in part because he was enjoying just people defending him and in part because, and this keeps getting lost, it stopped the certification. That was what he wanted to see.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Is there a witness who could testify to that fact that you can think of?

HABERMAN: It's a little further down without -- I mean, without getting into sources --

BERMAN: I'm not asking you to reveal your sources, but in theory --

HABERMAN: Right.

BERMAN: -- is there someone who would have been near the president?

HABERMAN: I suspect -- i suspect that based on reporting that we've done that you guys have done that others have done, I think if witnesses are called for this trial, I don't know that they will be, but if witnesses are called for this trial, I suspect they can find some people who they might be able to try to get to talk about this.

BERMAN: That would be interesting.

CAMEROTA: Maggie Haberman, thank you very much, as always, for sharing all of that reporting with us.

HABERMAN: Thanks, guys.

CAMEROTA: So, Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani is being sued for $1.3 billion for spreading lies and disinformation about voting machines. He was not alone. Fox and other MAGA media said similar things. Who else could get sued? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:17]

CAMEROTA: Dominion Voting Systems is suing Rudy Giuliani for $1.3 billion for defamation after he pushed election conspiracy theories about that company for months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY: This Dominion company is a radical left company.

These crooked Dominion machines.

They cheated with the machines and a Venezuelan company counted our votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Tom Clare. He's an attorney for the Dominion Voting Systems.

Mr. Clare, thanks so much for being here.

$1.3 billion lawsuit against Giuliani. How did you reach that figure?

TOM CLARE, ATTORNEY FOR DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS: Well, in some ways, the damage that's been done to this company is immeasurable. The reputational harm that Mr. Giuliani and others have inflicted on the company and its employees, you can't measure because they'll never be able to get their reputation back given now what's out there on the Internet and in the airwaves and the archives of cable news shows.

But what we've done is we've attempted, using our current projections, to look at what the lost profits and revenues of this company are going to be going forward, what the amount of money this company is going to have to spend going forward to remedy the harm to itself, and also to try to measure the reputational damage to the brand and to the company as a business going forward.

We'll update those numbers going forward, but based on our current projections, this is our best estimate.

CAMEROTA: As you point out, Rudy Giuliani was not alone. You're also suing, I think, Sidney Powell, but there are others. I mean, there were others in the media who also said things like that.

So, who else is on your list? CLARE: Well, we haven't ruled anybody out, and you're exactly right,

Alisyn, that these folks could not have done it alone. I mean, if Sidney Powell or Rudy Giuliani had stood in the middle of an abandoned street and whispered these lies about Dominion.

[08:30:00]