Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

CNN: U.S. Has No Evidence UFO Encounters Were Alien Spacecraft; Pro Gun Control Group Puts Out PSA on Effect of Gun Violence; U.S. Federal Government Considering Treating Cyber Hacking as Terrorism; West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin Continues Opposition to Amending Senate Filibuster. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 04, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:03]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar alongside Joe Biden. On this NEW DAY, tackling hacking like terrorism, the new plan to protect America's infrastructure sectors as hackers hold trains, pipelines, even meatpacking plants hostage for money.

Plus, moderate Joe Manchin holding out. The key Democrat telling CNN he won't buck Senate Republicans to benefit the Biden agenda.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A war veteran talking about black history on Memorial Day suddenly has his microphone cut. Was he censored?

And new intel on Navy pilots reporting close encounters with UFOs. Did they really see something out of this world?

KEILAR: A very good morning to viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Friday, hooray, June 4th. We begin today with a nation that's really become numb to an epidemic that is shaking it. In Florida, a third person has now died from the mass shooting this past weekend where three masked gunmen opened fire on a crowd outside of a concert in a banquet hall. Twenty others at least shot and injured. And those gunmen are still on the run after what took mere seconds for them to pull off with assault rifles and handguns.

BERMAN: It's just the latest mass shooting in America. The previous weekend the nation saw at least 12 of them, 12 in a single weekend. No matter where you stand on the issue of gun reform, it's a crisis that's both clear and getting worse. Individuals, groups, grieving parents are waving their arms trying to get the country's attention. That includes those who lost their children at Newtown. The action alliance they built has just released a new PSA that's both chilling and gut-wrenching. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been a long time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so excited you're here. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to see you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to see you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they in there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody is waiting, except for Annie.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: More lives lost than U.S. wars combined. Now, the people in that video, they're actors. But the grief they show, far from fantasy. Greg Guttenberg, who lost his 14-year-old daughter in Parkland on Valentine's Day three years ago after she simply went to school. She would have graduated high school this Tuesday. The Newtown Action Alliance released a statement from him along with the video. It says, quote, "I remember pulling off to the side of the road and telling my wife that our daughter was murdered. This film brought me back to that moment. Every American should watch this film to understand that we're in a war in America, and it's against the epidemic of gun violence killing our children and the ones we love." He goes on to call for Congress to pass, at minimum, expanding background checks to gun shows and Internet sales, something on which the majority of Americans agree.

KEILAR: And that comparison there of the number of gun violence victims to the number of U.S. service members lost in the nation's wars, those are estimates that "The Washington Post" and PolitiFact cite from the CDC. And this includes all types of gun violence from mass shootings to homicides to suicides. And when Parkland dad Fred Guttenberg says the numbers are at war, the numbers here really back him up, because according to the gun violence archive, more than 8,100 people have died from gun violence in this country this year alone. So this is a 23 percent increase from the year before. There have been at least 240 mass shootings this year alone. Gun purchases are breaking records. Last year 23 million guns were bought. This is a 65 percent increase from the year before. This year in just five months, Americans bought more than 9 million guns.

[08:05:01]

And according to one report, as of 2017, civilians owned 393 million guns in the U.S. Let's put that into perspective. That is more guns than people. That is more guns than those held by civilians in the other top 25 gun-owning countries combined.

BERMAN: And really just as chilling, the places that these shootings are happening, they can just be random. Mostly common places, concerts, workplaces, homes, grocery stores, massage parlors, schools. So as the U.S. recovers from a deadly pandemic, it has hardly reckoned with its other epidemic, the one that also is taking lives.

KEILAR: The Justice Department says it's putting a new focus on ransomware attacks with plans to tackle them the same way they do terrorism. And this follows a flurry of recent hacks that have made a mess of key infrastructure sectors here in the U.S. including food at JBS meatpacking plants. There's been fuel, of course, with the Colonial pipeline disruption. Hospitals with the breach of medical records at Scripps Health in San Diego. Trains from the New York City subway system, ferries, ferries -- this includes boats that serve parts of Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard.

Let's bring in CNN's chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto to talk more about this. Treating ransomware attacks like terrorism, what exactly does that look like?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: So the biggest piece of this, I think, is going after the finances here, and that is part of the DOJ plan is to go after the financing. Because at the end of the day, this is a business story. It's a criminal business story. The reason you have these ransomware attacks, they work. They make a bunch of money. And by the way, the companies pay the money. Colonial pipeline paid nearly a $5 million ransom to get the key to turn their system back on.

KEILAR: Seems like they all do or have to.

SCIUTTO: They do. They're insured for it, by the way, and the attackers are savvy enough that they know exactly how much they're insured for. And therefore, if I were to attack you and say your home is insured for x amount of money for robbery, I'll say pay me that money and we can move on.

And, of course, the problem is you and I have covered hostage stories before. You pay for hostages, right, you encourage hostage taking, and companies are being held hostage here. So going after the finances makes sense. Going after the markets where these tools are sold and where the data is sold makes sense.

And on terrorism, it's not the sexiest of the part of the counterterrorism story through the years. We talk about raids and so on. But what happened after 9/11 in terms of going after terrorist financing made an enormous difference in restricting and controlling these organizations. So that's the plan, but, boy, these guys are savvy. It ain't going to be easy.

KEILAR: I do think people are getting this more. It's affecting them more. It's affecting their daily life, right?

SCIUTTO: And that's exactly part of the point in that they are going after the companies, but they're going after consumers, because when people can't get gas, they notice. Colonial pipeline. When, for instance, if you can't buy meat for your barbecue, JBS, customers notice, and, therefore, the company is more likely to pay.

KEILAR: Jim, thank you so much for that, Jim Sciutto.

The clock is ticking, ongoing -- on these ongoing negotiations between a group of Republican senators and the White House as they're trying to hammer out a deal to address the nation's crumbling infrastructure. Despite a growing chorus of Democrats urging the party to cross the Senate -- to toss, I should say, the Senate filibuster and to pass an infrastructure bill without GOP support, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia isn't quite ready to budge. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just take it off the table and say you'll never produce a 60-vote threshold on a filibuster.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN, (D-WV): Let me just tell you one thing, we're going to make the Senate work the way it was intended to work. I'm totally committed to that. And I'm not throwing caution to the wind. I have never desired to do that. I've listened to everybody's point of view. But the bottom line is, this country has got to unite. We can't divide it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Joining us now to weigh in is CNN's senior political commentator and former senior adviser to President Barack Obama, David Axelrod, and CNN political commentator, former special assistant to President George W. Bush and former aide to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Scott Jennings with us. OK, David, what did you think here about what you heard Manchin say? I know a lot of Democrats are getting frustrated with him.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Look, I am not surprised to hear him say it because he's been saying it throughout so that he's been very consistent on this point. And I think it's important that people recognize that because there's this notion -- I remember this from my days in the White House with President Obama. You hear this outcry from the base of your party saying, let's go it alone. That's fine if you have got 50 votes to pass this bill without Republicans. And without Joe Manchin and perhaps some other moderates, you don't have that. So it is a fantasy to say, well, let's just pick up our marbles and go home and go it alone.

[08:10:02]

And until Manchin and perhaps some others are persuaded that this is the only way to pass an infrastructure bill, I think you're at a standstill. So I feel for Biden. Everybody is focused on his negotiations with Republicans. The most important negotiations are with Manchin and some Democrats.

BERMAN: It's a really key point there. And it's a fantasy for Democrats to think that Biden can do this without Manchin and Sinema. But the question is, is it equally a fantasy for Manchin to think that Republicans will move?

(CROSS TALK)

AXELROD: I'm sorry, Scott. Go ahead.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sorry, guys. Yes, sorry, I think it depends on the legislation. If we're talking about the infrastructure legislation, I think Republicans want a deal. They want it on their terms. They want it to be a smaller price tag. They don't want to spend new money. They want to use money that's already been appropriated because of inflationary pressures. And they don't want to raise taxes. So if they can get a deal that they would consider to be rational, yes.

I think if you're talking about other legislations such as HR-1, the big voting bill that the House has sent over, I don't think there's any chance that you're ever going to get any Republicans on board with that. And so that would, of course, require a change in the filibuster which Manchin and Sinema have said they don't want to do.

So I think narrowly focused on the infrastructure bill, yes, I think Republicans want a deal. I don't think you have to blow up the Senate to do it. I do think you have to drag this thing back closer to where it appears that Republicans are and even some of the moderates in the Democratic Party.

BERMAN: David, you wanted in on fantasyland. Go ahead.

AXELROD: No, no, let me just respond to what Scott said. What is apparent from reporting is that it has been dragged closer to where Republicans want it to be, according to everything that we've seen. The president has cut his infrastructure proposal in half. He offered a way of funding this that is an alternative to raising corporate taxes, which was his original proposal. And so he has made -- what Democrats see is he is making concessions.

And the question is, I do believe there are Republicans in the Senate who want to make a deal. The question is, are there 10 of them? And what will Scott's client Mitch McConnell say about that? Because there is also this issue of Biden running on the notion that he could get Republicans and Democrats to work together on big things. If they pass this, this would affirm that. And that would strengthen Biden. And we already know that from past experience that Senator McConnell is focused squarely on trying to regain the Senate, and he's not in the business, even despite their friendship, of trying to help the president.

So we will see how successful these negotiations are, but I don't imagine -- I imagine they will go as long as Joe Manchin wants them to go. And if Manchin says, hey, you've made a good-faith effort. You've made big compromises. You've produced something that is closer to what I think and moderates think is acceptable, I will move forward with you.

KEILAR: We're just hearing last night from the former vice president Mike Pence who was speaking at a GOP dinner in New Hampshire. And he weighed in on the January 6th insurrection. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, (R) FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: January 6th is a dark day in the history of the United States Capitol. But thanks to the swift action of the Capitol police and federal law enforcement, violence was quelled. The Capitol was secured. President Trump and I have spoken many times since we left office. And

I don't know if we'll ever see eye to eye on that day, but I will always be proud of what we accomplished for the American people over the last four years.

(APPLAUSE)

PENCE: And I will not allow Democrats or their allies in the media to use one tragic day to discredit the aspirations of millions of Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: One tragic day where rioters were talking about how they wanted to kill him. Scott, what did you think of these remarks?

JENNINGS: When I heard Vice President Pence describe it as a dark day, I thought, well, he and Trump agree that it was a dark day, but it's for different days. Pence thinks it was a dark day because Donald Trump sent a mob to string him up, and Donald Trump thinks it was a dark day because the mob doesn't succeed. Of course, they're not going to see eye to eye on this because Donald Trump fundamentally thinks that the Republicans, including Mike Pence, should have bowed and caved to that mob and tried to overthrow the election.

So, look, this is a very impossible dance for Mike Pence to do.

[08:15:03]

I understand rhetorically what he has to do as he seeks to run for president. But the fact is, he did his duty on that day. Donald Trump is wrong. Donald Trump's at fault.

And my prediction is in 2024, whoever we nominate, Pence, Christie, Scott, DeSantis, somebody has to stand in front of a television camera some day and say what we all know to be true. This happened.

The president of the United States was at fault. He whipped up a mob. It was a dark day for democracy, not because the Republicans didn't cave but because Donald Trump tried to commit an insurrection against his own government.

And that's the litmus test that's going to be before the American people in 2024, if they are to entrust the Republicans with the White House again.

BERMAN: My question is, is Pence wrong on two fronts. One, you can't agree to disagree on democracy and the Constitution, but, two, part B, that somehow he thinks he's going to get away with that politically because even that much, doesn't he cede all the ground in the world to the Trump diehards?

AXELROD: Yeah, he's threading an impossible needle here, as Scott said. He wants to run for president. There is a big Trump base within the Republican Party and so he is trying to have it both ways. He can't, as a witness to what happened on that day, as a participant

on the side of democracy. He can't renounce what he experienced and what he did, but he has to try and square the circle. I don't think that he can do that.

But he also ignores the fact that that day didn't exist in isolation. That day was the culmination of months and months and months of propagandizing by Trump before and after the election, calling into question the integrity of the election. And so to say, geez, this happened, it wasn't a spontaneous event. It was the consequence of the things that the president said and did leading up to it.

And so, you know, I don't think that, as they say, down where Scott lives, I don't think that dog is going to hunt.

BERMAN: Scott, David, thank you both so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

So, President Obama joins Anderson Cooper for a rare one-on-one about his life post-presidency. An "ANDERSON COOPER 360" special, Barack Obama on fatherhood, leadership and legacy airs Monday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

Up next, what intelligence sources are telling us about the Pentagon's forthcoming report on UFOs. Why Mulder and Scully might be disappointed.

KEILAR: Plus, former Trump White House counsel Don McGahn testifying on Capitol Hill. What questions should he face today?

And a Memorial Day mystery. Who cut the colonel's microphone while she was speaking about black history? And why did this happen?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:21:36]

BERMAN: New this morning, U.S. intelligence officials have found no evidence confirming that the unidentified flying objects, the literally UFOs, observed by American Navy pilots in recent years were alien spacecraft. This is according to sources familiar with the findings of an upcoming, unclassified report on UFOs that is expected to be delivered to Congress later this month. Such a report has never been issued.

So, in this report, government officials, they weren't able to explain what these mysterious objects flying in the sky might be. They just said there's no evidence that they're aliens.

Joining us now to discuss is Hakeem Oluseyi. He's an astrophysicist and professor at George Mason University.

So, Professor, they say there's no evidence the UFOs are aliens. However, they also tell us they don't know what it is. So, you know, how do you square that circle? HAKEEM OLUSEYI, ASTROPHYSICIST: Well, you know it really makes sense

because in the military and whenever there are test craft, these things are done on a need to know basis. So I think what's happening here is people believe in the authority of pilots and military pilots, right? If they're seeing something and saying they don't understand it, that will make the average person go, oh, there must be something real and significant here.

But, again, if those pilots don't have a need to know if there's a new technology that's in development, then they won't know about it. So it would look extraordinary to them.

KEILAR: So, apparently, it's not American technology, as we understand it. Is it some other kind of technology that they would be unaware of? Maybe from a different country. What -- is it significant that we find this out and what do we need to do to find this out?

OLUSEYI: Well, listen, whether it's American technology, I need to be convinced of that as much as I need to be convinced that it's alien technology. I don't have any evidence that can say this belongs to any particular entity. And we know that when there are advanced programs under development, then you don't go around telling everyone.

And we are actually in an era of engineering where extraordinary things are happening, right? There are new capabilities with drone craft, with hypersonic weapons. There's even hypersonic weapons that can travel underwater, right? So, there's amazing things happening on the engineering front.

But, to me, it looks terrestrial. It does not look alien. If it's the size of humans if it's what humans do, then chances are it's human in all likelihood, right? If it's anything human-like at all, that's my smell test for aliens.

So, what do humans do? We build vehicles. We build craft. We fly around the sky.

BERMAN: I'm intrigued by your smell test for aliens. Tell us more about that.

(LAUGHTER)

OLUSEYI: Well, you know, watch a lot of sci-fi, right? Some of them do actually smell.

But, seriously, right? If we do encounter life on another world, it would have developed completely differently from life here on Earth. If you were on Earth a couple billion years ago, you wouldn't even recognize it. One billion years ago, you wouldn't recognize it.

So don't expect humans to fly up in a craft like what -- that's what we do. That's not what some other species would do. So, absolutely, there is nothing here that says this is a smoking gun. These are aliens.

To me, if there's a smoking gun, it points right here to earth. [08:25:01]

BERMAN: Maybe we're the ones that smell.

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: You are --

OLUSEYI: Don't smell too bad.

KEILAR: You were crushing my flights of fancy about aliens, but, look, we need the reality check, and we appreciate it.

Hakeem, thank you. Hakeem Oluseyi, we appreciate it.

OLUSEYI: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Up next, Don McGahn is on a hot seat this morning. What will he tell lawmakers about the Trump White House that they don't already know?

BERMAN: And are more Americans getting back to work? A key report on hiring in the United States. One of the most anticipated jobs reports we've had in a long time just a couple minutes away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Former Trump White House counsel Don McGahn is on the hot seat this morning. He's set to testify before the House Judiciary Committee.

It's in a closed door session. And this is coming after he dodged a congressional subpoena for the last two years. So what if anything, can we learn from McGahn's testimony. My next guest has some questions that he would like asked and answered.

Joining me now with those is former senior counsel to Ken Starr, Paul Rosenzweig.

[08:30:00]