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Talks Stall between Democrats and Republican on Infrastructure Bill; Biden, Bernie Sanders Form Unlikely Bond Amid Gridlock; Biden Departs for First Foreign Trip As U.S. Agenda Stalls. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 09, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And Bernie Sanders convinced the president to try to pass it without Republicans.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And an NBA player speaking out after his little brother was robbed at gunpoint. What he has so say about soaring crime and guns in America.

And joints for jabs, we will hear from the state that is offering free marijuana to residents who get vaccinated against the coronavirus.

BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Wednesday, June 9th. And just moments from now, President Biden departs the White House. You are looking at live pictures. He's heading out on a high stakes international trip. This is the first of his presidency.

KEILAR: So where is he going? He will visit the United Kingdom, then it's on to Brussels, then it's on to Geneva for the G-7 and the NATO summits, all here in the next eight days. There are meetings, high- profile meetings that are scheduled with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, Queen Elizabeth, and Russian president Vladimir Putin. These meetings run the gamut. And the president is going abroad as his agenda here at home goes nowhere. After weeks of negotiations, the attempts to find compromise with Republicans on infrastructure, the president pulled the plug yesterday. Every one of his key priorities now hitting roadblocks. So let's start with John.

BERMAN: All right, this is a big high stakes trip. So let's discuss what it means, what it signifies. I am joined by CNN's Jim Sciutto, our chief national security correspondent and anchor of Newsroom. Jim, as the president heads in just a few minutes overseas, how does the world see Joe Biden and the United States? What does he need to do here?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, part of this is a reset because Trump, America first, was so much about go it alone. And by the way, not just de-emphasize alliances like G-7 and NATO, but straight up say, do we need them? And sometimes act against them, sometimes target your own allies in trade wars, et cetera. So Biden, part of this trip by going to G-7 and NATO is to say we're

back in those clubs. They mean something to us. We're going to prioritize them, and let's work together on things. And you've seen some evidence of that. By the way, NATO is pulling out of Afghanistan together with him. But in terms of challenging Russia, there was just a major military exercise that encompassed all the NATO allies to say, hey, we're together, we're standing up to Russia why here. That's the idea. Of course, the challenge is does jumping back into those clubs fundamentally change relationships with a Russia or a China? Does it change their behavior? That's the test to come.

BERMAN: It's such a big question, as you say, to meet with NATO and the G-7. It's a statement saying this is the club we want to be a part of, and it's an opposition to, and that's what we have up on the screen here, something else that's really begun to happen in the rest of the world with the rise of these despots. And to be clear, the president is meeting with Vladimir Putin at the end of this trip.

SCIUTTO: He is. And their behavior has not changed yet, right? It didn't begin on January 20th. If you look at the way Putin handles dissidents or his own abroad. Belarus hijacking a plane over Europe. These are major steps. Saudi Arabia going back to the killing of Khashoggi. China has certainly not changed its approach to dissidents in its own country.

The point is, OK, so you have a new sheriff in town, and Biden says we're going to stand up to you, Russia. We're going to not take this anymore, et cetera. But Russia is still saying, hey, we don't care, right. They are still testing. So again, it comes back to this test. The words matter. Biden is saying we won't stand for this, and a whole host of cases. But results matter, too. What is the new formula for the Biden administration to say, we're going to punish you in ways others have not and change your behavior. Hasn't happened yet.

BERMAN: Let me ask you, when he does meet with Vladimir Putin, you say he's saying he is going to stand up to Vladimir Putin, but what does he need to actually show there? Almost physically, what does he need to pull off when they're standing side by side?

SCIUTTO: The bar is admittedly low, right, because to not be Helsinki, for Trump, right, you just have to stand up there and not accept Putin's view of the world, false view of the world, right, and go against your own intelligence services. That's quite a low bar. But the next step is, if you're going to challenge him in a way Trump did not, how does that play out? What benefits do we see? So far, we haven't.

You could say Trump was -- sorry, Biden was clearly tested by Putin along the Ukrainian border. You remember that big military build-up, there was talk of an invasion. Didn't happen. OK, so maybe that test failed. But in terms of other things, the main Russian opposition leader, he's still sitting in a penal colony. It's almost like the 1800s. So things like that have not changed. And that's a test going forward.

BERMAN: This guy right here, Putin's friend brought down a plane that was flying over. Jim Sciutto, this will be interesting to watch. I look forward to speaking to you over the next few weeks.

SCIUTTO: I'm looking forward to being there.

BERMAN: Brianna?

KEILAR: President Biden heading abroad as hopes for his agenda at home hit a wall, a wall shaped like a bunch of Republicans and maybe Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, Democrats as well.

[08:05:08]

Talks on infrastructure just broke down. So where does it go from here? Let's talk about this now with our CNN chief political correspondent and co-anchor of STATE OF THE UNION Dana Bash, and CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger. OK, where does he go? This has been a huge setback, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The setback is certainly between him and the Republican he was dealing with, Shelley Moore Capito. But as that was happening, something else was really beginning, which is a group of 20 senators, Democrats and Republicans, bipartisan, meeting in the Capitol to start to work on a potential deal. Now, does that mean that there will be a deal? No. But it means that there is an attempt.

And so much of this is in the trying. So much of this is in the working at it. And what I mean by that is Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema to a lesser degree, they are hanging their hat on at least to make an attempt at least to begin to use a process the way that it's supposed to be used. Bri, you and I covered Congress when there used to be real legitimate bipartisan discussions where they would actually come up with bipartisan deals. You, too, Gloria.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that was way back.

BASH: But I guess my point is that, as much as people are going, this is the way it's supposed to work.

BORGER: Right. And even if it doesn't work, what the Biden team is saying is, OK, we tried. We tried to get bipartisanship. That's really important. And waiting in the wings is, of course, Bernie Sanders with their approval, is going to start a bill, a budget bill which could include all the stuff, if they get a deal, a smaller deal, that they don't get through a process called reconciliation which is the budget process, and it only needs 50 votes. So maybe their thought is maybe they'd be able to get Joe Manchin if they do something that is so- called bipartisan, and then in their second try, they do something that is not bipartisan.

BERMAN: They had pizza last night.

KEILAR: That's progress.

BASH: You know it's real when pizza is brought in.

(LAUGHTER) BERMAN: Ten Democrats, 10 Republicans, 10 slices or maybe more. The part of this that I wonder as they're doing this, Dana, and it was an old Clinton term, I think, which is he wanted to get caught trying. It sounds like something Bill Clinton would say. They want to get caught trying.

BASH: And he did.

BERMAN: On legislation, as it were. Joe Manchin, the part of it I don't get is couldn't someone just go say to Joe Manchin, what will you agree to here? Can we turn to the last page of this book, Joe, and you just tell us what you are going to be able to vote for in this deal? Where is that space?

BORGER: I'm sure, knowing Joe Biden as we all do, that he's had some of that conversation with him. And I think what Manchin is saying, you have got to talk to the Republicans first and then I'll tell you what I can agree to.

The big sticking point here, or one of the big sticking points here, is how do you pay for all of this? And Republicans won't undo the 2017 tax cuts. And they want to use leftover money from COVID funding, and Biden is saying OK to that to a certain degree. He's come down on a number. But when you talk -- they don't want to tax corporations, and the Biden folks are saying, well, that's pretty popular out there.

BASH: That's one of the sticking points.

BORGER: Yes.

BASH: Another sticking point is how do you define "infrastructure"? And this is area where maybe what you're talking about, your reporting on Bernie Sanders is going to come to fruition, because the Democrats like Joe Manchin, like Kyrsten Sinema, others, they agree infrastructure should be roads, bridges, things of that nature, not creating a new government process for child care, for elderly care, which a lot of Democrats really want. They say, OK, it just doesn't belong in this bill.

So there are paths. I think everybody is looking at this going, oh, my gosh. It's the end of the end and his agenda is dead. Having watched this kind of thing back when there were normal times in Washington, it is possible. It is possible. And you have the players in place, ala Joe Biden, who understands how to make the possible happen.

BORGER: Let's just say the agenda is stalled, which is everyone's favorite word right now to use about it. And we just have to wait and see, I guess.

BERMAN: Or turn to the last page of the book, which is my option right here.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Dana and Gloria, stand by, because you're coming back just after the break. And just ahead, Gloria talks to a very anxious Senator Bernie Sanders about the Biden agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORGER: Do you have infinite patience timewise?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (D-VT): No, I do not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

[08:10:00]

KEILAR: I swear, Gloria does the best interviews with lawmakers ever.

BERMAN: That was also Larry David. That was like literally Larry David.

KEILAR: And this is Kamala Harris, the vice president. And she's taking some heat after a rocky first foreign trip for her. And President Biden, we're watching this because he's actually going to be leaving at any moment from the White House heading to Joint Base Andrews on his first foreign trip. We'll have live coverage of his departure.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: So infrastructure talks are stalled. We've been talking about that. And Democrats are growing impatient, perhaps no one more so than Senator Bernie Sanders. Sanders says that his Senate Budget Committee is prepared to move on a budget resolution next month, and this would set the stage for moving Biden's infrastructure agenda along, but on party lines. So this is a big move from someone who was once Biden's rival, now a strong ally. And Gloria Borger has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Let's just say that during the presidential campaign, progressives were skeptical about Joe Biden's big tent.

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Progressives, moderates, conservatives.

BORGER: But now, guess who is firmly inside it?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): As somebody who wrote a book called "Outsider in the House," yes, it is a strange --

[08:15:03]

BORGER: Right.

SANDERS: -- experience to be having the kind of influence that we have now.

BORGER (voice-over): strange, especially for two men with decades of hard-held, longstanding disagreements.

SANDERS: I believe in Medicare-for-All.

He is more conservative than I am, obviously. But on the other hand, he is not only a smart guy. He's a good politician who has a sense of where people are at and what is possible.

Now, I think he understands that, at this particular moment, in American history, you have to go big, not small.

BORGER: And five months into his presidency, Biden has gone big. Very big.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's historical and they call it transformational.

BORGER: That was a $1.9 trillion COVID relief package, followed by a far-reaching plan to protect voting rights. Not to mention a massive infrastructure plan. Sanders, the newly minted 79-year-old budget chairman is primed and ready to go.

Progressives are growing more and more impatient with moderates in their own party. Not to mention with Republicans who have been flirting with Biden on infrastructure. And Sanders is in a rush.

Do you have infinite patience time-wise?

SANDERS: No, I do not.

BORGER: That's a no?

SANDERS: Not only do I not have infinite patience, I have very limited patience. Look, we learned a lesson from the Obama years. And that is Republicans will talk and talk and want to work with you. Bipartisan month after month, nothing happens.

BORGER: It's a lesson that stuck with Biden, too. And so an alliance was born. Not so much a love story, but more like a marriage of convenience, the one-time centrist and the longtime progressive.

Twenty years ago, is this the Joe Biden you would have expected?

SANDERS: No. I think the Biden of today is not what I or others would have expected.

BORGER: Until a new reality intruded.

SANDERS: COVID exacerbated all of the existing problems in terms of the struggles of working families.

BORGER: Then came January 6th.

SANDERS: Where Trump is about is his actual threat to democracy. What Biden sees out there is that if we do not move aggressively and make it clear to people that government can work for them, then we stand a real chance of losing democracy in this country. BORGER: There's a shared history, too. Both men have working class

roots and both wanted to be president. And when Vice President Biden decided not to run in 2016 as the party establishment lined up behind Hillary Clinton, he reached out to Sanders for a private chat or two. A courtesy Sanders has not forgotten.

SANDERS: He was giving me his advice, political advice, and they were, I think, for me, very useful conversations.

FAIZ SHAKIR, FORMER SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I certainly believe that Senator Sanders left that meeting feeling that Joe Biden was giving him a, hey, go make your case, Bernie, because there's a lot of people who need to hear it.

BORGER: In 2020, they were campaign rivals. Then, as Sanders was getting ready to withdraw from the race, he had an idea on the plane ride back to Vermont.

SHAKIR: Hey, do you know some friends over there in the Biden world? Ask them if they want to invite progressive policies and personnel into their campaign. Just see what they say.

BORGER: They said yes.

CEDRIC RICHMOND, BIDEN WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: Bernie is an important voice within the Democratic Party. And we respect that voice. And we need that advice sometimes.

BORGER: Can you talk to me about how welcome they made you feel or was it a little different from Hillary Clinton in 2016?

SANDERS: Yes, it is.

BORGER: You weren't welcomed?

SANDERS: I was tolerated. My support was -- you know, they wanted my support, obviously.

BORGER: But now, the one time outsider is Mr. Chairman.

Hosting dinner parties.

SANDERS: Not exactly a fancy dinner party. We did it outside with our progressive friends in the House. We had a very nice time.

BORGER: He worked to corral progressives for the American Rescue Plan, even after the minimum wage hike was taken out.

SANDERS: Was it everything we wanted? No. Was it a major step forward for the working class of this country? You bet it was.

BORGER: But can he or will he search for common ground with moderates in a 50-50 Senate?

You have to deal with moderates like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema and getting them on board. SANDERS: Yeah, I've heard about that, but in all honesty, Chuck

Schumer does more of that talking than I do.

BORGER: Back in Vermont, Bernie, the former mayor of Burlington, is the local anti-establishment hero. But these days, he's really part of the ruling class in D.C. even when he disagrees with the man in charge.

SANDERS: He does things sometimes that I think are really not a good idea.

[08:20:03]

But I understand why he does it because he's made promises to people. And he wants to keep his promises.

BORGER: And he's always kept his promises to you?

SANDERS: I think, yes.

SHAKIR: Joe Biden understands I think his heart and gets what he's fighting for, in that way has built a real respectful relationship.

BORGER: Which these days is hard to come by.

SANDERS: One of the things that struck me about Joe Biden is a very strong sense of loyalty, which I like and respect. We're going to have our differences, but I ultimately trust you and you're going to trust me. We're not going to double cross each other. There will be bad times, but we're going to get through this together.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right. And Gloria Borger back with us. Also with us, Dana Bash.

First of all, that was fascinating. That's --

BASH: So good.

BERMAN: As solid or a ringing of an endorsement that anyone of any political stripe is going to get from Bernie Sanders. I was shocked at how far he was willing to go in support of Joe Biden

I was also a little shock at how he's willing to get some digs in there to Hillary Clinton.

BORGER: You mean, I was tolerated? That's a little bit of a dig.

BERMAN: Yeah, that was a dig right there.

As we sit here this morning with the president and you can see Air Force One about to head on this overseas trip, there are questions about the domestic agenda. Is it stalled? How much can he get done?

The answer -- part of the answer to that question will be depending on how much support from people like Bernie Sanders. How much slack he's willing to give Joe Biden.

BORGER: Well, I think, as you can see, as these negotiations play out, Sanders is sort of hanging back a little. He says we'll start this summer. He's letting Biden play out this string and I'm sure Biden has asked him to do that.

They have a relationship, which is very clear that Biden understands how important Bernie Sanders is to him to getting things through the Senate and to get support in the country, which I think --

BASH: To give him cover.

BORGER: Yes.

And I think he felt that Hillary Clinton never did that for him. And I think that -- so they are kind of working on this. We'll see what happens to this relationship.

As Sanders says, he does things that I don't like. Biden does things he doesn't like but in the end, he feels they'll be able to kind of work together and, you know, look. When the minimum wage didn't get through and progressives were railing, it was Bernie Sanders. I don't know whether it was at that dinner party but with Bernie Sanders who said hang in there. This is better than we've ever gotten.

He's been around a long time and he can't believe that he's actually inside right now.

KEILAR: It was amazing to hear him say in one breath, he does things I don't understand -- or I don't believe, but I understand why.

I mean, on one hand saying, we're totally different and on the other hand coming back with complete cover for Joe Biden. I really enjoyed seeing those old photos of the two of them. By the way, they look very different but it just goes to show like they've had this relationship for decades. You wouldn't be able to have this partnership without that, without that time in the Senate together.

BASH: That's exactly right. And this is also another -- we were saying this. Is there anybody who does better interviews than Gloria Borger?

KEILAR: No, there isn't.

BASH: Because you brought out so much. And one of the things you brought out and explained in that amazing storytelling was that Bernie Sanders is an iconic outsider.

BORGER: Uh-huh.

BASH: But he's actually really very much an insider. But he knows how to play the game. He's playing the game.

He's using his years of legislative experience of being there, the art of legislating to work it, and to get as much as he can. I don't want to say it's Ted Kennedy-esque but it's of that ilk, at least the way you described it.

BORGER: He's more pragmatic than people think because he's been in the Senate for so long. And he wants to accomplish things. He's 79 years old. And this is his moment as much as Joe Biden's moment in an interesting way, as chairman of a committee to get things done on his agenda.

So I guarantee you, he's going to give to a certain degree. And he's going to tell these progressives, you weren't around here when I was around here.

BASH: Exactly.

BORGER: Take what you can get because this is more than we've ever gotten.

BERMAN: Stand by for one second. By the way, we did miss an opportunity when you asked, does anyone do an interview like Gloria Borger. We could have answered like Bernie Sanders, exactly -- noooo.

BASH: We more than tolerate you.

BERMAN: Stand by because on the right-hand side of the screen you can see Marine One at Joint Base Andrews. I believe the president is still on there about to head off to air force one for his first overseas trips.

Arlette Saenz is in England where he's headed. Our John Harwood is at the White House.

John, I'm going to start with you.

As we see the president head out there, let's start with what he leaves behind first because I'm not quite sure he would have wanted -- there he is.

[08:25:08]

He would want to be leaving right now with the domestic agenda where it stands.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, he did not talk, by the way, when he left here at the White House to speed on to that foreign trip.

But, look, he's got a bunch of challenges that he leaves behind -- the infrastructure plan, which is the major domestic agenda item that he has. He had bipartisan talks with a group of Republicans. They collapsed yesterday.

That doesn't tell us anything about the ultimate fate of his program because ultimately, to get something substantially like what he has proposed. Something close to what he's proposed, that's going to happen with Democrats only. We knew that.

But getting something with Republicans along the way may be the key to getting the Democratic votes like Joe Manchin of West Virginia. So the collapse of those talks yesterday was one step. Now there's another step to be followed through which is a set of talks with Joe Manchin and some Republicans to see if they can have some consensus part of the plan.

But, ultimately, this is going to come down to whether Democrats are willing to get behind a major spending increase like Biden's proposed and we simply don't have the answer to that yet. We may not get it until the fall.

BERMAN: The president there flying casual, by the way, no tie, as he arrived at Joint Base Andrews.

KEILAR: Was that?

BERMAN: A cicada.

KEILAR: Was that really?

BERMAN: Maybe a cicada right there.

KEILAR: Oh my Lord.

BERMAN: You can also see the First Lady Jill Biden who will be accompanying him on this entire trip.

Arlette Saenz for us in the U.K. which is where the president is headed. And what are the expectations there? Well, hang on one second. Is he walking -- he did not talk to reporters. Hang on. Let's listen.

(INAUDIBLE)

BIDEN: Watch out for the cicadas. I just got one -- got me.

(INAUDIBLE)

BIDEN: Strengthening the alliance, making clear to Putin and to China that Europe and the United States are tight. The G7 is going to move. Thank you.

REPORTER: Mr. President, do you expect to come out with a vaccine strategy for the world?

BIDEN: I have one and I'll be announcing it. Thanks.

REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) expect that Putin will be able to work out any kind of understanding with you on the cyberattack?

BIDEN: No, it's going to be a substantive one.

KEILAR: All right. President Biden there at Joint Base Andrews heading to Air Force One. And he was just talking to reporters there. He was asked, I believe it was a little hard to hear there at the end but asked about cyberattacks. Is he going to bring that up with Putin.

He paused a little bit. Said, I think -- or as he worked out an agreement with Putin. He said, who knows? He paused and he said clearly they are going to be talking about that ahead.

BERMAN: They'll have substantive discussions. Also the president acknowledging that he brushed away a cicada. It's the first presidential cicada incident that I think we have on record.

KEILAR: I can't even. And here we have affecting not only the press corps getting to England delayed but the president, too. This will be something he'll be glad to put behind him as he certainly puts behind him some domestic agenda challenges, as he heads to Europe.

BERMAN: Let's go to Arlette Saenz who is in the U.K. where the president will be heading shortly and talk about what the expectation is, not just there, but also NATO, Brussels, the expectation as they see this president for the first time.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you heard the president there outline two messages that he's planning to make on this trip. One that he's trying to strengthen those alliances with European countries that have been under some strain in the previous administration under former President Trump.

But the president also said that he wants to send a message to China and Russia that the U.S. is what he said tight with these European alliances. So much of what the president is going to do over the course of this next week is meeting one on one, face-to-face with these European leaders.

He'll be here in Cornwall, where he will meet with Prime Minister Boris Johnson and also attend the G7 summit before he and the first lady will meet with Queen Elizabeth, the 13th American president that the queen will have the pleasure of meeting.

Now after the president moves from here to Brussels where he will attend the NATO summit, as well as an E.U. summit, and issues of climate change, COVID-19 and countering China will be a feature of many of the talks during this week.

[08:30:00]