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New Day Sunday

Controversial Quarantines; Interview with Susan Johnson-Cook

Aired October 26, 2014 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Alison Kosik.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. Let's start this half with five things you need to know for your NEW DAY.

KOSIK: Number one, a federal official tells CNN that CDC is, quote, "not happy" about mandatory quarantines now in place in New York and New Jersey. The 21-day isolation period applies to health workers and others who are returning from West African countries hit hard by Ebola. Illinois has a similar rule. How the rules will be enforced, that is still an open question.

BLACKWELL: Lots of questions there. Number two now, Gary, Indiana, a man allegedly shot and killed his 13-year-old neighbor for laughing at him. The "Sun Times" says the alleged shooter returned home Friday and found his house had been burglarized.

He was reportedly yelling outside when some neighbors including the victim walked over. Police say the victim laughed at him and that's when he was reportedly shot nine times.

KOSIK: Number three, Attorney General Eric Holder says the federal government will now recognize same sex married couples in six more states bringing the total to 32 plus the District of Columbia.

This follows the Supreme Court's decision to decline to hear any pending cases on the issue. The latest six states are Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

BLACKWELL: Number four, look at the television. Cars, bikes, anything and everything was swept away by this flood in Athens. This was Friday. Greek authorities say up to 250 cars, dozens of homes, all damaged. Torrential rain was caused by a low pressure system that really began as Hurricane Gonzalo, remember that name? That hit Bermuda? More rain is expected to come in the next several days.

KOSIK: Number five, SpaceX's Dragon space ship successfully splashed down in the Pacific Ocean west of Baja, California. The unmanned spacecraft had been on a four-week resupply mission to the International Space Station. Dragon brought back a payload of experiments that could be groundbreaking, including studies on how humans can thrive for long periods of time in space.

BLACKWELL: All right, so we talked about before the break the gray area, all the questions about these new controversial quarantines in three states. Let's talk about them with Tom Fuentes, CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director. Tom, you are the law enforcement analyst. How can these states enforce these mandatory quarantines?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Victor, I have to admit, I'm not sure what exactly their legal authority is going to be and how long they can hold people and under what conditions. You know, there is a point that the governors are making that if you've been in direct contact with patients that have Ebola in Africa and you come back, there should some measure of increased monitoring or vigilance on your health.

And in the case that prompted this, the doctor goes to public places, rides the subway, goes bowling, goes to restaurants, and then later when he catches it, these, you know, they're trying to sanitize the bowling alley, for instance. So the people like that that have gone to an establishment, the person that owns that establishment has to fork out money, close the business, lose money that way, bring in people -- the cleanup guys in Dallas or whoever to sanitize the place, and that costs money.

So there has to be some increased vigilance on the people that come back that have been directly with patients. But if you carry this to a logical extreme, how will this be enforced and what will we do? Will we create internment camps like we did in World War II and lock them up and isolate them from the public? What will we do with the 4,000 U.S. soldiers when they return or if they rotate the thousands of soldiers potentially that will be coming and going from West Africa? Are we going to isolate them also?

And you know, I just see that there is a lot of confusion here, partly created by the CDC changing and shifting its protocols from the time that Duncan arrived and later died in the Dallas hospital, the hospitals themselves being on their own and showing they weren't up to the task as two of their workers in Dallas get sick.

So a lot of this has been prompted by confusion in the government, confusion in private industry with the hospitals, lack of clarity on how you get it or don't get it or who can be sick or not be sick. And I think that, you know, this has to be thought through, and there hasn't been enough debate. There's been too much knee jerk reaction to every little new situation and not enough actual thoughtful debate.

BLACKWELL: And if they thought it through, they haven't relayed the clarity. They haven't relayed the details of the plan. You brought up Thomas Eric Duncan. What we know from the plans in New Jersey, in New York, and Illinois, that these mandatory quarantines are for people who have had direct or close contact with Ebola patients.

But is there a legal liability for ignorance? Like in the case of Duncan, the reporting from (inaudible) Liberia was that he didn't know when this pregnant woman fell over that she had Ebola. He just saw a pregnant woman fall, and he did what most people would do, is go to her aid. Are people legally liable if they didn't know they were treating someone with Ebola and in fact they were?

FUENTES: Well, you know, legal liability normally requires an intent. You have criminal intent. You're aware that what you're doing is wrong or may be dangerous to other people. In a case like this, you're right. If you don't know that you're hurting -- or you're helping someone might hurt somebody else later down the line, including yourself, you can't I don't think hold anybody liable for that. Now if you later lie and say you weren't exposed to the illness or you were not in a country where it's prevalent, then that's a different story, too. But even to that extent, there's just been so much confusion completely across the board on who to let in the country, and then when they get in the country, how to treat them when they arrive. And certainly the health care workers, they are heroes. They have a point of how they should be treated when they return. But on the other hand, they're the most likely to spread it or to obtain the disease because they were in close contact with patients.

BLACKWELL: Do you foresee this plan being long term? What we know from the World Health Organization is that the fight to stop Ebola is not going to be a quick one. It's not going to be over in two or three rounds. Do you foresee these mandatory quarantines maybe going to the other two states where people from the region fly in, to Georgia and Virginia? Or are people going to realize, wait a minute, this really isn't feasible. We need to stop this.

FUENTES: I think unfortunately, everything in the handling of this matter from the beginning has been politically driven, and I think the governors, if there's a backlash in their state, to tell them to stop it, they'll stop it. If there is support that we don't want to be anywhere close to an Ebola patient, doctor or nurse, we don't care. Keep them away from us. Lock them up and intern them, and if the governors get political support for that, they'll keep doing it. I just think that science here is taking a backseat to what the public outcry has been, what the media outcry has been, and the politicians have been dragged around I guess on how they want to treat this and what they want to do.

BLACKWELL: So many questions on how this law will be enforced. Thank you for offering some clarity or at least pointing out some of these glaring questions.

FUENTES: Pointing out the lack of clarity.

BLACKWELL: Yes, thank you very much. CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

KOSIK: Some top lawmakers are calling for a ban on flights from Ebola stricken nations. The U.S. ambassador to the U.N. is going to West Africa. Samantha Power said she wants to send a message to the American public. We're going to explore that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOSIK: U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Samantha Power, arrived in Ebola stricken Guinea today. It is the first stop on her visit to the three countries in West Africa, Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone, that have been hardest hit by the deadly virus. Joining me now is Susan Johnson-Cook, she is a former U.S. ambassador at large for international religious freedom. She's been the faith adviser to two presidents, and she joins us here this morning. Ambassador, thanks for joining me.

SUSAN JOHNSON-COOK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR AT LARGE FOR INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM: Thank you so much for having me.

KOSIK: What is sort of the mission for Ms. Power at this point? What is she hoping to accomplish?

JOHNSON-COOK: First of all, let me send my thoughts and prayers to the presidents of those countries and to the people of those nations. And to the ambassadors who are there, my colleagues.

Her mission is to make sure that there is attention brought to this issue that we may find some healing and some solutions for healing. I think it's courageous, No. 1. And, No. 2, you know, had this epidemic happened in another nation, another continent, I think we would have been on it a lot quicker. So the people of Africa are concerned. The people of America who have African relatives are concerned. And so we're very thankful that she's making this mission.

KOSIK: And Power wants other countries to step if and help with the fight. How will this trip help with that?

JOHNSON-COOK: If the U.S. leads, and people follow our lead in so many respects, so we're taking the courageous act of conscience (ph) -- we call this a full-court press. Everything needs to happen now so that we can really bring an end to this epidemic and bring some healing to not only their nations, but to the entire world. It's here now, as well. And if we can find solutions in America to help some Americans, then why can't we begin to multiply that effect.

KOSIK: You lived in Ghana. You traveled to Liberia last year. What are the lessons that the U.S. can learn about how to fight this incredible virus?

JOHNSON-COOK: I'm not part of the CDC nor part of the medical profession. But I know that we can begin using all of the resources we have in hand. We have some of the greatest doctors in the world. We have some of the greatest solutions. I think we need to partner with the CDC and other nations who have medical professions who are equivalent and begin to say, what can we do to end this epidemic.

KOSIK: Power is traveling to West Africa while top lawmakers are calling for a travel ban on flights from there because of the Ebola outbreak. What are your thoughts on that?

JOHNSON-COOK: The ban has not happened totally in terms of all the states of America, but since it has come to our continent, we need to be able to kind of find out what is the source of it. So her traveling is the beginning of saying the U.S. is not giving up, but we're actually providing hope. And I think that's what America really represents around the world. We are the hope nation. And it does begin with us.

KOSIK: I want to switch gears and talk about the shooting in Washington state. Police say a teenage gunman opened fire on classmates. You're a pastor and a parent. What can we do to prevent tragedies like this? Many people talk about the parental involvement. It's so theoretical. What exactly does that mean?

JOHNSON-COOK: We have to move beyond theory. When I talk about a full-court press, it means a full-court press now. Before I went into government as U.S. ambassador, I was a pastor for three decades in New York's inner city. So I've had my front line. So we do need to do a full-court press.

What it means is that all of us, it does take a village to really raise a child. It's not just parents and it's not just government's responsibility but it's all of us working together. There is a role for faith leaders. And faith leaders play a really important role, because this is the only consistent place in the community where people come together.

When I was in school, there used to be relief (ph) time for Catholic students and Jewish students after school where they would go and they'd learn the heritage, but they'd also learn about their faith.

Faith leaders have to move in. But there is also a role for corporate America. Why not adopt a school, adopt a community, and begin to do their resources. They used to have this loan executive program for fledgling nonprofits. Well, make a loan executive program for our schools, where we begin to bring some real resources. There is still tremendous wealth in the United States. We bring the resources of corporate America and others who have it and begin to help a community. So it takes all -- parental involvement though is very important.

KOSIK: But you see these school shootings. They are really amplified. After Newtown even, you thought that hey, maybe this would have been a wakeup call. But since then, in the 18 months, there have been more than 70 school shootings. What is happening here?

JOHNSON-COOK: When I was a pastor, one of the things I saw was that there is a tremendous amount of mental illness that often goes undetected and often goes ignored. We've got to begin to put our grip on this. Get a grip on this. There needs to be counseling prior to school. There needs to be counseling certainly after tragedies such as this. Not just grief counseling, but to begin to get a tack on it. We have ways of disconnected generation. With technology now, they're disconnected. They're not talking to parents. They're not even talking to each other. We really can't monitor what is on those mobile devices and what's on the computers. But what we can monitor is what happens if our home, setting some boundaries. Kids will rebel against it and push against it. I have two teenagers myself. But they want boundaries, because we have to have some rules. There have to be some things that are in effect.

KOSIK: Take the Twitter account away. Take the phone away.

JOHNSON-COOK: Exactly, and put some limits on it. When we were growing up, there were limits on TV. You can't watch TV until homework is done. We have to watch certain shows. So you have to do certain things. So boundaries are important. Parental involvement. Having a meal with your children. Setting meal time. Spending some significant time. Showing up at their parent-teacher involvement. Also showing up at their games. My kids, I was the busiest mom, but they would look up and they would see me in the stands at their basketball game.

KOSIK: They know you cared.

JOHNSON-COOK: They know I cared. So it's about time for caring.

KOSIK: All right. Susan Johnson-Cook, thank you so much for your time.

JOHNSON-COOK: Thank you for having me.

KOSIK: Victor.

BLACKWELL: Thank you so much.

Dr. Craig Spencer, he's the doctor who is now being treated for Ebola at Bellevieu in New York. What do you think? Is he a hero or is he irresponsible? As he's recovering at that hospital, critics are lashing out at him. We'll tell you what they're saying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Ten minutes until the top of the hour now. A discouraging update out of New York. The condition of Dr. Craig Spencer, it's gotten a little worse.

KOSIK: The 33-year-old Ebola patient is reportedly entering the more serious phase of his illness this weekend. But health officials warn that Ebola patients do often get worse before they recover.

BLACKWELL: Of course, we hope for the best in his case. While he fights though this disease in isolation at New York's Bellevue hospital, critics are lashing out at him online. They say the doctor acted irresponsibly when he went out in public after returning from Africa. CNN's Miguel Marquez has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dr. Craig Spencer, hero or zero? With Ebola in NYC trending on Twitter, social media cast harsh judgment on the doctor working to save the lies of others.

Lee Ritz MD (ph) wrote, "Why the hell is a Doctor Without Borders not being quarantined after treating Ebola patients. Was the urge to bowl that overwhelming?"

He did bowl at The Gutter in Brooklyn, took three major subway lines, visited a city park and went out to eat -- all of that in seven days upon his return. Many New Yorkers and the Internet went just a little crazy.

Jacqueline K wrote, "He's a selfish, self-centered Upper Manhattan uber doctor who refused self quarantine after return from Africa."

People who live in Spencer's building aren't calling names. They are on heightened alert.

DERICK GORDON, NEIGHBOR: Knowing that it's come here now, I mean, honestly, it's really very scary. Yes.

MARQUEZ: In this picture, even through full protective gear, you can see Dr. Spencer's smile. He posted it to Facebook on September 18th -- just about the same time he began a month-long stint for Doctors Without Borders in Guinea. Today, the disease there, widespread, nearly a thousand dead. On October 14th, he departed Guinea, went to Brussels and on to New York, where he was screened at JFK. No sign of Ebola.

Many see his work and efforts in hard hit West Africa, where nearly 10,000 have the disease, as heroic. Sara Cowan (ph) offered, "Thanks to Dr. Craig Spencer and all the others health care worker who put themselves at risk."

Talk show host Rachael Ray added, "Sad for another hero doctor suffering with Ebola."

Twenty-four Doctors Without Border staffers have contracted Ebola, 13 have died. The organization says Spencer followed its strict protocols and reported his symptoms promptly, adding, "As long as the patient hasn't developed symptoms, the risk of contagion is close to zero."

KEITH WRIGHT, NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLYMAN: It's a worldwide health crisis that has affected Harlem.

MARQUEZ: It's come home, and some like Mike Gardner want a zero tolerance policy. Dr. Spencer, he wrote, "I hope your medical license is revoked and you are prosecuted."

Miguel Marquez, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Very critical comments there. These -- some of those tweets don't correspond with the work he's doing. To call him selfish and self-centered when he went for a month to Guinea to volunteer to help with the Ebola crisis, it just doesn't correspond.

KOSIK: But some are saying he was irresponsible in just blatantly going bowling and --

BLACKWELL: Valid criticism. But to call him selfish probably isn't--

KOSIK: I think it's a little overboard. Yes.

Friends and families in Marysville, Washington are mourning Friday's tragic school shooting, but why did this shooter go on a rampage and why did he target his relatives? We'll have more details next hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Welcome back. In this month's "Ones to Watch" series, an emerging British artist is commissioned to paint a portrait of a woman with royal connections. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He came on foot rather than carriage, but otherwise, Richard Dewes's (ph) arrival at this English stately home resembles a scene from "Downton Abbey." The celebrated artist arriving at Goreenbree (ph) house to paint a (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the great hall. Here we've got (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By Countess Grimston (ph), the former Lady Roseanne (ph), Viola (ph), Alexandra (ph), once bridesmaids to Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, now she's happy to be simply called Rosie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The top floor above us, we have some of the family portraits. This is where the collection is really interesting. It will be the 21st generation to be painted here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rosie is continuing a family tradition spanning more than 500 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First thing, I wanted to get some quick sketches. It's nice to get a sense of how you move, face changes, expressions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Richard starts like all his predecessors, with a few preliminary sketches. The same scene will be repeated many times over the next few months. Each sketch taking Richard a little closer to his sitter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: You want to see how that ends? Watch the full show at CNN.com/onestowatch.

KOSIK: And there is a lot more news to tell you about this morning.

BLACKWELL: Next hour of your "New Day" starts right now.

KOSIK: Good morning. I'm Alison Kosik, in for Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. 7:00 here on the East Coast.

KOSIK: We begin with new battle lines in the political fight over containing Ebola in the U.S. A federal official tells CNN the CDC is quote, not happy about mandatory quarantines now in place in New York and New Jersey.

BLACKWELL: The governors of those states have imposed a mandatory 21- day isolation for health care workers returning from treating Ebola patients in the hard hit African countries of Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone. Illinois has a similar rule. And now Florida has gotten into the mix and is mandating twice daily monitoring for 21 days for anyone returning from Ebola affected places. State officials say they are trying to protect public health as well, but how will the rules be enforced? That's the important question here and it is still an open question.

Federal leaders worry the measure will discourage American health care workers from traveling to those three hard-hit countries.