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New Day Sunday

Four States Tighten Rules on Ebola Contacts; U.S. Ambassador Visiting Ebola Hot Zones; Community Grieves School Shooting Tragedy

Aired October 26, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Federal official tells CNN the CDC is, quote, "not happy" about those mandatory quarantines now in place in New York and New Jersey.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN ANCHOR: The governors of those states have imposed 21-day isolation for health workers who are returning from hard-hit West African countries. Illinois has a similar rule. And now, Florida is jumping in, mandating twice daily monitoring for 21 days for anyone who is coming back from the outbreak zone.

State officials say they're protecting public health. But enforcement, that is still an open question, and federal leaders worry the measures will wind up discouraging U.S. health workers from traveling to Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone.

BLACKWELL: One nurse is slamming the way she was treated after landing in Newark Airport in New Jersey, returning from her work in Sierra Leone. Her name is Kaci Hickox and she writes in "The Dallas Morning News" and this is a quote. "I sat alone in the isolation tent and thought of many colleagues who will return home to America and face the same ordeal. Will they be made to feel like criminals and prisoners?" And she added this, "My blood is tested -- or it was taken, rather, and tested for Ebola. It came back negative."

New Jersey Governor Chris Christie told the "Associated Press" Hickox was, quote, "obviously ill" and apologized for her inconvenience. And she's still being quarantined.

KOSIK: Meantime, the fiancee of a New York physician now being treated for Ebola is back home. Morgan Dixon has been isolated at an East Side hospital. She is still quarantined. And Spencer is now reportedly entering a more serious phase of his illness.

The doctor who was working in Guinea received blood plasma from Nancy Writebol, one of the first two Americans diagnosed with Ebola. Doctors say Ebola patients often get worse before they recover. And it was Spencer's diagnosis last week when he rode the subway, that sparked new quarantine policies in three states.

Our Alexandra Field is outside Bellevue hospital where Spencer is in isolation.

So, Alexandra, why are these states going that far to have that 21-day quarantine period for health workers coming back?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, the governors of these states are saying that they believe that this is in the best interest of the public.

The way that this all works, though, that you've got a lot of officials on different levels who have to somehow work together. The CDC sets sort of the baseline guidelines and recommendations but the states have the power to enact stronger protocols if they choose to. That's what some of the governors have chosen to do. But there are health officials say there could be serious unintended consequences.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): A mandatory 21-day quarantine or hospitalization already imposed by New York and New Jersey and now, Illinois is causing heated debate on handling the possible spread of Ebola. In an effort to ease public concerns, the three states announced the measures for any airline passenger coming in from a West African nation hit hard by the deadly virus. A mandatory quarantine would go into effect for travelers who had direct contact with an infected person.

In a statement issued by the state of Illinois, Governor Pat Quinn says, "This protective measure is too important to be voluntary. We must take every step necessary to ensure the people of Illinois are protected from potential exposure to the Ebola virus."

In New York, where the state is already dealing with an Ebola case, Governor Andrew Cuomo says health care workers are ready.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: The workers feel that they've had the training. They've had the equipment. We've gone through the protocols. We've drilled. We've drilled. We've drilled.

FIELD: But the mandates are causing concerns with the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in other infectious disease specialists.

In a statement, the CDC says health care workers volunteering to combat the Ebola epidemic in West Africa are heroes. The epidemic there won't end without them. And without their work, the U.S. will be at increased risk.

CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASES AND PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: I do have very real concerns especially since I am somebody who is planning to go myself that this is really going to prevent some people from volunteering. We're already having difficulty recruiting health care workers to go over. And if you're going to institute even -- what frankly feel like punitive measures against people volunteering time, taking real risks, it just doesn't feel right and fair.

REP. TIM MURPHY (R-PA), FOUNDING MEMBER, GOP DOCTORS CAUCUS: We do not have a vaccine. We do not have a cure. We only have treatment. And one needs to understand a virus constantly trying to mutate, constantly trying to find a new host to live on and as such, quarantine is only thing that breaks the link.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: All right. Now, while you have states taking their own steps here, tomorrow also marks the first day where the CDC is rolling out this new requirement and under this requirement you'll see people who are returning from the hot zone in West Africa will now be actively monitored, that means for a 21-day period, they'll be in close touch with state and local health officials keeping an eye on them.

We know that in the case of Dr. Craig Spencer who is hospitalized right here at Bellevue, he was self-monitoring, Alison and Victor, and he's the one who actually detected that he had a temperature, had a fever, that's when he alerted authorities who brought him here where he was diagnosed.

KOSIK: And it seems to be the different policies according to the CDC and states causing a lot of confusion according to many people.

All right. Alexandra Field at New York's Bellevue Hospital, thanks.

BLACKWELL: A New York City official calls the state's new Ebola travel quarantine measures, and this is a quote, "a real stunner."

Arthur Caplan -- we have him with us -- he's the head of the division of medical ethics at New York University.

First, do you think quarantines like this work?

ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIR., NYU DIVISION OF MEDICAL ETHICS: Well, it's a great question because we're hearing a debate about should we or shouldn't we do them. We haven't talked about how we're going to enforce them. What I mean is, if a doctor says, "I'm not staying if my house," are we going to shoot him? Are we going to taser him? Are we going to have the cop trying to tackle him, does he have to put on a moon suit first?

There's a lot of talk how we'll do this or not do this. We haven't actually thought what it means to be in quarantine and how strictly would that be enforced.

BLACKWELL: And we come to you specifically because you are head of the medical ethics division. These people obviously trained, many of them work for hospitals and health care facilities. Will they be paid for these 21 days? Who is going to pay for their child care? Who is going to bring them food? Where will they be quarantined?

Have those things been taken care of and will they be taken care of ethically by their respective hospitals?

CAPLAN: I'm so glad you asked me that because these are heroes, and they're our front line troops in the fight against Ebola. They've got to be over there, if you will, tamping down the epidemic in West Africa. If we don't, then we're going to be talking about this a year from now in terms of quarantine and how to enforce it.

I think we have to treat them as heroes, not as some kind of pariahs. So, let's set up a program to pay them. They're not going to get paid for the 21 days now. Many of the organizations don't have the money, some of the voluntary groups that are sending doctors and nurses over there.

I'd like to hear the governor stand up and say, we're going to make this as easy as possible. We're not punishing you. We're going to make sure you get good food. We're going to make sure you have a babysitter. We're going to make sure you get paid. We're going to make sure you get what you need. Let's see this as a kind of decompression period, a kind of chance to recover.

Look, a lot of these people when they go to West Africa, they're in terrible environments. You can't even describe how awful it is. Would we treat our veterans coming back from Afghanistan this way? I don't think so.

BLACKWELL: You know, what we learn after Thomas Eric Duncan's case was that the protocol in these three countries, Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia, for protective gear -- those are more stringent than what the CDC was calling for in the U.S. So, let's ask you another ethical question extrapolating from what we know now from New York and New Jersey quarantines. If they treat Ebola affected or Ebola positive people there overseas and are quarantined, should the people who are treating Dr. Spencer right now, should they also be quarantined for 21 days? It's not like this strain is any more likely to kill a person born in Sierra Leone than it would a person born in Seattle.

CAPLAN: Well, it's a good question and I think the answer to it is, first, you're not going to get Ebola unless you're really exposed to bodily fluids from someone, diarrhea, vomiting. When we heard about this doctor moving around New York City, you weren't going to get Ebola from him unless you had sex with him or shared a toothbrush with him at his bowling alley or on the subway. Those are the facts. We haven't seen Ebola spread easily.

Those health care workers need to be monitored carefully, whether you're going to be able to isolate all of them and hold them, you need them to treat the next group of folks. So I'll say, careful temperature, self-monitoring, keeping an eye on one another but that's our crack teams to manage Ebola. I don't think you want to put them away for 21 days just to be safe that somehow or another they're not going to infect somebody. If they're not bleeding, not very sick, if they're not running high fevers they're not going to infect you or I.

BLACKWELL: A lot of difficult questions as the U.S. deals with this Ebola crisis, and many of them are ethical. Arthur Caplan, thank you for offering your insight.

CAPLAN: My pleasure.

KOSIK: The White House sending a high level representative to the Ebola hot zone in West Africa, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. now in Guinea. We're going to go live to the White House, next.

Plus, flowers line fences as the town mourns a school shooting in Washington and the community is wondering why a popular teen went on a rampage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOSIK: U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Samantha Power, arrived in Ebola-stricken Guinea this morning.

BLACKWELL: It's the first stop on her visit to the three countries in West Africa, Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone, that have been hardest hit by the deadly virus.

CNN's Erin McPike joins us from the White House, and CNN's Candy Crowley is also live in Washington.

Erin, let's start with you.

What message does Ambassador Power hope to send during this visit?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, first, it's largely symbolic, just like it was for President Obama on Friday when he was seen hugging nurse Nina Pham in the Oval Office after she was cleared of Ebola. Samantha Power is trying to say health workers can go to these affected countries in West Africa and not get Ebola. She's also trying to send the message to other countries that they, too, need to go to the region and get involved. That's a message that we've been hearing from Secretary of State John Kerry for quite some time now.

But the biggest message is to de-stigmatize this and calm the hysteria. She said to NBC News before leaving, essentially that New York and New Jersey new rules are haphazard and not well thought out.

And she also made this point, "We cannot take measures here that are going to impact our ability to flood the zone. We have to find the right balance between addressing legitimate fears that people have and encouraging and incentivizing these heroes."

But to that end these new rules for people who have been in those regions that New York and New Jersey are imposing that they will have to be quarantined, the big question is, will Samantha Power also have to be quarantined when she comes back? And I have reached out to the New York governor's office on that. And once we get an answer, we'll bring that to you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: OK. So, of course, we want to talk more about the New York/New Jersey rules. But without skipping over the new federal policy that kicks in tomorrow requiring monitoring of travelers from Ebola-affected areas. Talk more about that.

MCPIKE: Victor, when these travelers come back into the United States, they have a number of guidelines that they have to follow. The first is that they will have to check in with local health officials every single day. They also have to provide contact information for themselves as well as a friend or family member, so that health officials can get in touch with them at any point during that 21-day period following their travel, and then they will also have to coordinate their travel within the United States with these officials, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Thanks, Erin.

KOSIK: Candy, let me move to you.

You know, it seems like the federal policy is much less dramatic than the controversial new protocols in place that New Jersey and New York have put in, Illinois as well that require the 21-day quarantines. What do you think that's the case?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, because you have this case of the doctor who came from Guinea, goes to Manhattan, turns up to have the Ebola virus, and you have the governor of New York and the governor of New Jersey, obviously two states aligned by geography, and a lot of employees commingling across state lines and then you have Illinois following suit.

Now, look, the federal doctors have said all along this sort of thing isn't needed. You have the nurse complaining, the nurse there was one nurse held under this new rule that went to a Newark airport and is still in isolation. They simply feel, the governors, that the federal government has botched it, may not know exactly what is needed, and they felt -- governors always feel they know what's best for their state because they're closer to the ground, et cetera.

So, you know, in some ways you've seen governors before, obviously, not flaunt federal rules, but go further than federal rules go. And this is that case. Now, whether it stands because you've heard the argument against it, I think we'll figure that out by next week.

KOSIK: OK.

BLACKWELL: Candy Crowley, Erin McPike, thank you both.

And stay here for "STATE OF THE UNION" with Candy Crowley. It starts at the top of the hour, 9:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

KOSIK: And the community in Marysville, Washington, is grieving after a tragic school shooting on Friday.

Susan Candiotti is following all of the latest developments -- Susan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOSIK: A community in Washington is trying to come to terms with the horrifying shooting at a Marysville High School. We know that two of the victims were cousins of the shooter, Jaylen Fryberg, and the other three victims were girls, one was killed, and two are in critical condition in the hospital. Susan Candiotti joins us live from Everett now.

Susan, what have you learned about the shooter's relationship with his cousins? Are we getting any more clues as to what maybe the motive was behind this?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alison.

It's hard to say what the motive was at this time. And investigators, if they know what it is, they're not saying so at the moment.

But certainly, one of the things that's most troubling is a grandfather of two of the young men who were critically injured says that they are cousins of the shooter, and can't figure out for the life of him why he would have shot them. He said they were all very close to each other. They always hung out together. They even went to a dance recently where the young man, the shooter, had been named the homecoming prince.

So, he does say that he forgives the shooter for what happened, but no one can understand this. We don't know whether this might have had something to do for example with the recent suspension from school or a reported breakup with a girlfriend. For now, at church services today, everyone will be concentrating on the victims in this shooting, and also families are trying to comfort their own children about what happened.

Here's what the mayor told me about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JON NEHRING, MARYSVILLE, WASHINGTON: I put my arms around them and hug them. I hadn't done that on their way out the door to school that day. And I think -- you know, you've got some families that their kids aren't coming home. And that's what comes through your mind. So, you just want to love on them and hug them. One of the things is just to say, hey, if you need something to talk about, don't hold it in, and talk to us about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: And the school will remain closed this week, all activities also have been canceled as everyone does try to come to grips with this -- Alison.

KOSIK: And, Susan, we have heard about a teacher who was at the school at the time was being hailed a hero, what she apparently did was attempt to stop the shooter. Do you have any more details?

CANDIOTTI: Not really. Police aren't saying much about it. And we did reach out to this teacher who we are told did try to intervene in some way. However, she told us she didn't wish to talk about anything at this time. However, she issued a statement via Twitter and through the school district in which she thanks everyone for their support and is asking for privacy for the time being -- Alison. KOSIK: All right. Susan Candiotti, thank you.

BLACKWELL: More ISIS clashes in the key town of Kobani. Are fighters crossing the border between Syria and Turkey to combat this ISIS siege? We'll have the latest in the battle against those Islamist militants, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Let's get to your headlines now.

A nurse being held in quarantine in New Jersey says she was left in isolation for hours when she arrived at Newark Liberty International Airport.

KOSIK: Writing in "The Dallas Morning News", Kaci Hickox says she's scared how other health care workers who returned from the U.S. after caring for Ebola patients in West Africa will be treated. Officials in New York, New Jersey and Illinois say what they're trying to do is protect public health.

Attorney General Eric Holder says the federal government will now recognize same-sex married couples in six more states, bringing the total to 32, plus the District of Columbia. This follows the Supreme Court's decision to decline to hear any pending cases on the issue. The latest six are Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

BLACKWELL: SpaceX's Dragon spaceship successfully landed in the Pacific Ocean. The unmanned spacecraft had been on a four-week resupply mission to the International Space Station. The Dragon also brought back potentially ground-breaking experiments on how humans can survive in long duration space flight.

KOSIK: And up to 50 homes in Pahoa, Hawaii, are preparing for the possibility of forced evacuation because of this -- lava from the Kilauea volcano that's heading their way. Hawaii's governor has asked for a presidential disaster declaration. The 2,000-degree lava threatens to destroy roads, homes and schools -- amazing.

Thanks for starting your morning with us.

BLACKWELL: "INSIDE POLITICS WITH JOHN KING" starts right now.