Return to Transcripts main page

New Day Sunday

NYT: Lubitz Had Severe Psychosomatic Issues; Israel Slams U.S. Nuclear Talks with Iran. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 29, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00] ALISON KOSIK, CNN ANCHOR: Critics say it could allow discrimination against gays and lesbians. Businesses and civil rights groups are threatening to boycott the state.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the governor says -- he wants the law to be clarified, let's say that. He told "The Star" newspaper that a new bill would likely be introduced in coming days but he did not specify what that bill would say or who would introduce it.

Here is what the White House has to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The signing of this bill doesn't seem like it's in the step of a direction of equality and justice and liberty for all Americans. Again, it's not the view of the administration. I know it's the view of the Republican mayor of Indianapolis and a whole host of nonprofit and private sector companies who are have legitimate concerns about the impact of this legislation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right. We'll talk about that law as we go throughout the morning.

And let's start now the next hour of your NEW DAY.

(MUSIC)

BLACKWELL: A psychosomatic illness, burn out, depression -- new information about the mental health of the Germanwings co-pilot and the new evidence that police seized from his apartment.

KOSIK: Time running out, with just days left for the United States and its allies to reach a nuclear deal with Iran. Will these last-minute talks crumble?

BLACKWELL: And could another hat be thrown into the 2016 presidential ring? Marco Rubio planning a big announcement.

KOSIK: Good morning. I'm Alison Kosik, in for Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you.

There are startling new developments in the investigation of the crash of 9525. "The New York Times" is reporting that Andreas Lubitz, the co-pilot who crashed that commercial airliner into the French Alps, was suffering from a psychological illness.

KOSIK: Justice correspondent Pamela Brown is anchoring our live coverage. She's outside the Germanwings headquarters in Cologne, Germany.

Good morning, Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well good morning to you, Alison and Victor.

That's right. There is some new reporting out there that Andreas Lubitz had vision problems. This is according to "The New York Times", and that this vision problems could have been a result of a psychosomatic illness. That is something that investigators are exploring. We are also learning that antidepressants were found inside of his apartment. You know, investigators have been in and out of his apartment in Dusseldorf trying to collect as much evidence as they can to figure out a motivate here. Why did Andreas Lubitz deliberately crash that plane into the French Alps as the French prosecutor alleges?

For more on his background and for his medical condition, I'm going to bring in senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen.

Fred, we have learned the last 24 hours about what kind of illness he may have been suffering from, right?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it seems as though it might be multiple things.

BROWN: Right.

PLEITGEN: It seems as, though, it might be on the one hand, these psychosomatic things that he had, where on the one hand, the "Bild" newspaper here in Germany, which is also one of the biggest publications, is saying that he was suffering from depression but that he was also suffering from burnout, which, of course, is a related thing but a special kind of depression, and they also say that large amounts of prescription drugs were found inside of his apartment. Not exactly clear what that is, whether it's sleeping pills, whether it's something else, whether it's some sort of anti-depressants, for instance.

But, of course, we do know from the prosecutor that he was hiding these things from his employer. And it's interesting, because, you know, Lufthansa came out and he said they obviously knew nothing about all this. They said he passed a physical in the summer of 2014. They also say that if he would have any trouble with his vision, they probably would have found that out at that point. If this was a big medical crisis that he was going through, that they would have seen this if he had trouble with his vision. They also said that they never got any word from him, that he was suffering from any sort of depression-related issues.

And as you found out, he would have had to tell them.

BROWN: Yes, that would have been -- he would have had to self- report it and the onus would have been on him.

And it's interesting in speaking to the Lufthansa spokesperson, they said they had no indication at all that he had depression, or any type of mental health issues but the exam he went through in the summer of 2014 only covers physical, not psychological.

PLEITGEN: Exactly, only covers physical issues. They do there is, of course, a vision test involved in it as well, so they would do a seeing test. Apparently, he passed that without any sort of problems.

But you're absolutely right, there is nothing that's tested for mental health issues but, of course, some of the questions that are asked there, they sort of go back to mental problems that he might have. They sort of ask them, how are you feeling at the moment? Do you have any issues? So, there are certain things that, you know, likely might brush across the mental side of things but there is no real mental evaluation. Of course, that happens in pilot training, but a lot can happen between the time you're in pilot training and then on the job.

BROWN: Of course. And we also know he had this test in the summer, but went on to a clinic in Dusseldorf in February and March for a diagnosis of some sort. We don't know what that diagnosis is, but still a lot to learn a lot about answering these questions.

[07:05:03] Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much.

And the "Bild" newspaper, as Fred alluded to earlier, also interviewed the ex -- one of his ex-girlfriends who he dated for five month last year, and, in fact, CNN interviewed this reporter. He says that the girlfriend talked about how Andreas Lubitz was aggressive and had really bad nightmares at night.

Here is what the reporter told us.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHN PUTHENPURACKAL, REPORTER, BILD: She never mentioned it. She only mentioned she said things she couldn't understand. For example, like you mentioned before, one night, he suddenly jumped up after suffering from a nightmare and he screamed we, the plane goes down. We going down, you know? And there was another moment where he locked himself into the toilet, according to her, and be there for, I don't know, for a couple of -- no, longer. At least one hour, she told me.

INTERVIEWER: An hour?

PUTHENPURACKAL: And she didn't know why he did that.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BROWN: And German media is also reporting that Andreas Lubitz had a live-in girlfriend. This is a different person from the one this reporter is talking about. A live-in girlfriend who apparently worked at a school teacher in Dusseldorf -- Alison and Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Pamela, thank you so much.

Let's try now to understand more about the mental state of this co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz. We have Dr. Jacqueline Brunetti, a senior aviation medical examiner.

Good to have you with us, Doctor.

DR. JACQUELINE BRUNETTI, SENIOR AVIATION MEDICAL EXAMINER: Good morning, Victor. How are you?

BLACKWELL: Very well. Thank you.

Let's start with psychosomatic illness. A term many have never heard of. What is psychosomatic illness?

BRUNETTI: Well, I'm speaking as a physician and as a medical examiner, not as a psychiatrist here, but a psychosomatic illness typically is a manifestation of physical symptoms that are not due to an organic cause. So, it's -- there's no real underlying disease, but you might feel either gastrointestinal issues, that they are mentioning vision issues and not sure what that might have been. But it's not based on organic cause. It's based on mental issues.

BLACKWELL: Yes, there was a German newspaper that reported that prescription drugs were taken from his apartment related to these psychosomatic illnesses. What types of drugs would be prescribed, do you know?

BRUNETTI: I'm not sure. I know that in this country, there are acceptable medications for depression. There are four acceptable medications. Those would be prescribed for mild -- patients with mild depression but I'm not sure what would be prescribed for a psychosomatic illness. For a psychosomatic illness, it seems to me there would have to be more psychiatric intervention there to determine the cause of the physical complaint, rather than medications.

BLACKWELL: Can we talk about this overriding narrative? Built in part or primarily, in fact, what we are learning from this German prosecutor finding these ripped up notes that Lubitz tried to hide this illness from Lufthansa, somehow making it seem like he did it maliciously, but it's entirely possible that the mental illness itself precluded him from employing empathy, logic, reasons, selflessness that would prompt you or I to say I can't fly today.

BRUNETTI: Right. That certainly speaks to the issue. You know, what is it about this young man that had him absolutely no regard for human life? And, you know, may be a bigger issue here of the whole stigma of mental health and people's hesitancy to say they actually have a problem and maybe, himself, didn't even understand on a -- an appropriate level that this was a problem that was going to cause serious, serious issues.

BLACKWELL: Yes, it's like this self-report philosophy. It's as if you were to say to someone who is illiterate, notify me in writing. I mean, if you don't have those traits to tell someone, you don't have those traits to tell someone that you're not empathetic, you have no sense of reason, how do you then go and report that?

Last question: what would make him want to kill everyone on the plane? If he is, indeed, suicidal, that doesn't have to happen in the cockpit.

BRUNETTI: That's a question I don't know that anyone can answer. Again, a psychiatrist would probably be in a better position to even suggest how that could be. You know, this story is so tragic and becomes really unbelievable as to how these events evolved.

[07:10:04] I find it odd that the people probably be in a better position to even suggest how that could be. You know, this story is so tragic and becomes really unbelievable as to how these events evolved. I find it odd that the people around him, even the people closest to him at work saw him as a normal young man who was very capable in the cockpit. So, it -- this is a very troubling story.

BLACKWELL: Yes, Dr. Jacqueline Brunetti, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

BRUNETTI: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Well, after a terrible tragedy like this one, not just the passengers but the pilots, they are affected took. We'll ask a former pilot how an incident like this can affect airline travel.

KOSIK: And the U.S. edges closer to a nuclear deal with Iran but one world leader said it could be a disaster.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOSIK: The Germanwings crash has affected not just passengers, but pilots as well.

On a recent flight, a Germanwings pilot told passengers that he and the crew were also afraid to fly after this tragedy and wanted to return safely home to their families.

Let's get more into this Alistair Rosenschein. He's a former pilot and aviation consultant.

You know, as I flew into Atlanta on Friday, I experienced the same thing. The pilot got on the intercom and for about eight minutes, proceeded to explain how much flight time he's had. He introduced his co-pilots. He said, "I want to get home to dinner tonight so let's all get seated."

How badly do you think that this tragedy has really rattled the air industry?

ALISTAIR ROSENSCHEIN, FORMER PILOT: Well, I mean, every flight crew member, that is pilots and cabin crew and the passengers, will be thinking about this in the immediate aftermath of this accident but not an accident but a deliberate act of mass murder. But, you know, that is extremely rare. I think there had been now three confirmed cases of pilot suicide.

Yes, it does affect one. I remember when Concord crashed. I was in between simulator duty with British Airways on 747 at the time, and we were unable to continue our simulator.

[07:15:05] And a pair of us turned around to the training captain and said, I'm sorry, we can't concentrate and we need to stop and do it another day and that is, in fact, what happened. And we're not alone in that.

Of course, but, you know, with time, we will move on. And accidents happen periodically. But rarely, and this particular type of accident was extremely rare. But, you know, anything that makes one question the trust between the flight crewmembers is something you're going to dwell on quite a bit.

KOSIK: And speaking of that trust, there's got to be some trust between the pilot and co-pilot. How often did you, as a pilot, experience flying with a co-pilot or a crew that you didn't even know?

ROSENSCHEIN: Well, you know, occasionally, you'll fly with somebody who may not be quite up to the mark, might be having an off day and not operating the aircraft as you expect them to do. So, the trust does suffer a little bit. But I'm sure it's double-edged sword and I'm sure that -- you know, my colleagues may have thought that with me occasionally.

So, you know, you're always on the lookout for what your colleagues are up to. On the approach land, for example, 500 feet above the ground you make a quick verbal check which you need to check the other pilot is still with it and concentrating.

KOSIK: How difficult is it going to be for passengers to have that full trust in their pilot again, in their copilots? I mean, my hair stood on end even hearing the nice pilot talk and putting us all at ease but it's still scary.

ROSENSCHEIN: Well, of course it is. But as I said, it's the immediate aftermath of this accident. It's on the news. But as time passes on, it will drift away in people's memories and people will continue flying in the relaxed way they have been in the past.

There are always some people who are a bit nervous in flying, but, you know, there's a far greater chance of a customer, passenger, in this case, having an accident on their journey to the airport than actually on the flight from the airport. You know, those are just the simple facts.

KOSIK: All right. Alistair Rosenschein, thanks so much for your perspective.

ROSENSCHEIN: Thank you, Alison.

BLACKWELL: Israel's prime minister says Iran is trying to take over the entire Middle East. Benjamin Netanyahu is furious over potential nuclear deal between Iran and the U.S. and other world powers. We'll talk specifically about what has him so furious, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:55] BLACKWELL: New this morning: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is slamming a potential nuclear deal with Iran. This, of course, is happening as negotiations are going down in -- or going to the wire rather in Lausanne, Switzerland.

CNN global affairs correspondent Elise Labott is following developments for us. Elise, what is the prime minister saying?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, it's no surprise that the Israelis are following this very closely. Yesterday, Secretary of State John Kerry called Prime Minister Netanyahu to explain a little bit about what is going on in the negotiations and he is saying today to his cabinet that he is not happy at all with the deal shaping up.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I expressed before them our deepest worry about the argument that's coming together with Iran in the nuclear talks. This agreement, as it involves, is fulfilling our deepest fears and even worse, in parallel to the gathering of this dangerous agreement the proxies of Iran in the Middle East are carrying out a wide occupation of Yemen in an attempt to take control of Bab-el-Mandeb Straits, the strategic straits that change the balance of shipping and supply of oil in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LABOTT: And Netanyahu is speaking about a meeting that he had with Senators McConnell and Reid who are in Israeli today. What he is saying basically, Victor, is that the Israelis are concerned about Iran really kind of expanding its influence in the Middle East. Not only in Iran, not only in Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and the fight against ISIS going on there, but now supporting the Houthis in Yemen, and really worried that Iran has cut -- as he says is taking over the Middle East by expanding his influence supporting these proxy groups, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. It's coming down to the wire here in a couple of days left. We will see if there is this framework that is decided upon.

Elise Labott joining us -- thank you.

KOSIK: Work is beginning on an access road to the get the crash site. Search crews are trying to recover the wreckage of Flight 9525 as families plead for their loved ones not to be forgotten.

And later, the Republican National Committee sends out a scathing statement after new details come to light concerning the Hillary Clinton e-mail scandal. It's so bad, they are even comparing her to an infamous president!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:26:43] BLACKWELL: New this morning, French work crews are now starting construction on an access road which will make it easier to get to the crash site of flight 9525 for both the search teams and for the families of those on board.

KOSIK: You can only manual how difficult this work is, both physically and emotionally draining. And authorities are saying it could be weeks before the bodies are recovered and identified.

And for the families of the victims, every minute matters.

BLACKWELL: Erin McLaughlin is near the crash site in the French Alps. Erin, what are you hearing from those families?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, victor.

Right now in this area, the focus really being on this road that they started to build this morning. It will be about just over a half a mile long and they hope to have it completed in eight days. The purpose of this road really being twofold, it's to allow the recovery, the recovery workers to have greater access to the site. They can only reach the site by chopper now. It will eventually be used by the families.

A local mayor saying that many of the families have come to him saying they want to see the crash site, they want to be as close to where their loved ones perished as possible. They peppered him with questions about the area, what is it like in the summer and what is it like in the winter and what is it like in the fall? He says he has assured them this area is known to be, you know, a corner of paradise so he says that every inch, every foot of the road they are constructing right now really counts for these families.

Now one of the families that says they want to come here more often is the family of Paul Bramley. Paul was just 28 years old and one of three British victims onboard the Flight 9525. His family came here yesterday. His father Philip read out a statement saying he wants his son to be remembered.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILIP BRAMLEY, VICTIM'S FATHER: What happened on the morning of the 24th of March was the acts of a person at the very least who was ill. If there was a motive or a reason, we do not want to hear it. It's not relevant.

What is relevant is it should never happen again. And everyone on that plane should not be forgotten ever. I don't want it to be forgotten ever.

I will not get back. I will not be able to take him home because of the nature of the impact. Me and my family will visit here forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, Phillip Bramley has called for greater transparency from the airlines. He says that the airline needs to look after their pilots. He says that he wants this area to be remembered for his natural beauty. He doesn't want it to be remembered for the actions of one man, a reference to the co-pilot Andreas Lubitz who is now accused of crashing the plane into the mountainside. Lubitz's only family was here on Thursday, that according to the local mayor.

The local mayor said he was so pained to see Lubitz's father, the grief on his face, that he is struggling to understand, not only the reality that his son is gone, but that his son is allegedly responsible for this horrific incident. He said that the family was shattered -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Erin, the weather presented some challenges early on in this effort. Quickly, how is the weather today?