Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Jodi Arias Prosecution Rests
Aired January 17, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet up on a work trip in Vegas and they fall hard. But when the flame burns out, they break up. She then moves 300 miles to try and get back together, to pursue him, even converting to Mormonism.
But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped over dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times, violence so brutal, it resembles a mob hit.
And just hours after Arias stabs Travis to death there in the shower, she has sex contact with a brand-new boyfriend, literally, hopping on top of him while Travis`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall.
Testimony reveals 27-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day long, even photographing the sex, but then just minutes after the sex, slashes his throat ear to ear.
Bombshell tonight: Is the jury siding with Jodi Arias as the prosecution rests its case?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Listen...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am listening. I am listening.
ARIAS: It`s hurting my reputation. It`s casting me in a bad light. It seems (INAUDIBLE) white Americans. And they`re not mafia or anything.
Travis is screaming the whole time. He wasn`t screaming like a girl. He was, like, shocked. I ran! I ran into the closet. I think I got knocked out, but I don`t think I was out long.
Such a blur. I chicken out like a little bitch!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s you.
ARIAS: That looks like me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s you.
ARIAS: That is not my foot!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe you.
ARIAS: Pigtails? (INAUDIBLE) There`s a morbid curiosity. How many times was Travis stabbed?
I`m all for the 10 Commandments, Thou shalt not kill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Is the jury siding with Jodi Arias? And the prosecution rests. We are live and taking your calls. We are all at the courthouse.
Straight to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session." She`s been in the courtroom all day.
Well, the state has rested its case. And you know, I don`t really take to it too kindly when defense attorneys talk on and on and on about overkill, overkill. Well, you cannot accuse the prosecution in this case of overkill.
What`s stunning me right now, though, Beth Karas, not so much that the state has rested, but the questions that the jury is asking. Hit me.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": OK. First of all, Nancy, I entirely agree with you that Juan Martinez, the sole prosecutor in this case, did not overtry this case. Nobody can criticize him for that. He put on what he thinks he needed for premeditated murder, 20 witnesses, nine days.
Now, the questions you`re talking about from the jury came to Detective Flores, the lead detective, yesterday, eight questions asking about whether they checked out the roommates, and did their alibis check out, did they find the gun and the knife, any knife sets in the house, did they have a knife missing, you know, seemed to be questioning the investigation. Why didn`t they do a comparison of fibers from these furry sandals that Travis Alexander had and tassels on the pillows? And some of these questions had already been answered in the evidence earlier in the case.
GRACE: OK, really trying to get at those particular questions, Beth. They`re very disturbing to seasoned trial veterans like myself and all of the lawyers, including you, Beth, on the panel.
Bonnie Druker, exactly what were the questions the jury asked, questions about the roommates, Travis Alexander`s roommates? Have you checked out their alibis? Were they investigated? Did you ever find the murder weapon? And the translation to that is, How do I know that it was Jodi Arias`s grandfather`s .25? Why couldn`t it belong to one of the roommates? A lot of very disturbing questions.
Hold on. This is what I don`t want to happen! Roll it, Drew.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Florida versus Casey Marie Anthony. As to case number 2008, CF 15606-0, as to the charge of first degree murder, verdict as to count 1, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. So say we all. Dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, on this 5th day of July, 2011.
GRACE: The tot mom jury renders a verdict of not guilty. The defense team promptly leaves the courthouse and goes to toast champagne in front of a window at a local bar. Let me just say the devil is dancing tonight!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to you, Matt Zarrell. I want to go with a fine-toothed comb, you and Bonnie -- first with you, Matt -- some of the questions that were asked by this jury.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK, Nancy. I`ll give you word for word because a lot of the focus is on the roommates. Here`s one question. "When you interviewed the roommates, was there any concern about Travis`s absence?" This was a question to Detective Flores, the lead detective. He said...
GRACE: Wa-wait, wa-wait! (INAUDIBLE) there. When you interviewed the roommates, were they concerned about his absence? Is that correct?
ZARRELL: Yes.
GRACE: And what was the response?
ZARRELL: He said, no, the roommates believed that Travis was in Mexico already. They didn`t know his schedule.
GRACE: OK, continue.
ZARRELL: The next question was, What about the alibi of the roommates? Detective Flores said one was working, the other was staying with his girlfriend at the girlfriend`s parents` home. They also asked, Was anyone else living in the house?
GRACE: Wait! Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Wa-wait! Alibi of the roommates -- one working, the other was staying with his girlfriend at her parents` home.
Bonnie Druker, did that cover all the roommates? Were there -- was it just Travis and two other roommates?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, that covered all the roommates, Nancy. Some other of the questions are, Any knives missing? There were no knives missing. Was a gun found? No gun found. They actually wanted to know if Travis Alexander`s old Beamer was checked, and that old Beamer was not checked, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, let me go through those again. Were there any knives missing? Flores`s response was, No, there were no knives missing. I`m going to have to go to the lawyers to get an interpretation on that one.
Was the gun used to kill Travis found in Arias`s possession? No. I know where this is going. What`s after that? Roll it, Drew. What was the next question? Why were the fibers found at the scene not sent out to compare them?
OK, Beth, what are they talking about that? Why were the fibers found at the scene not sent out to compare them?
KARAS: Well, it was particular fibers. The question had said specifically fibers on these little furry sandals, flip-flops which were in the middle of the master bedroom floor, and fibers from throw pillows, which they had little tassels on them. And there were some tassels loose, and it looked like some had blood on them. But the defense was trying to say that he was tying her up with rope, having sex with her earlier in the day. But these are little tiny pieces that are consistent with tassels. Anyway, the answer was, Not necessary.
It sounds like some of these jurors are watching too much "CSI" or someone has a law enforcement background or they`re not listening to the background because some of these questions had already been answered.
GRACE: Out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter Radaronline.com, covering the case every single day. Alexis, I`m very, very concerned about the questions this jury is asking. It sounds as if they`re siding with Arias.
Didn`t they hear in opening statements by the defense that their defense is self-defense? That means that they admit -- the defense admits Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. What am I missing?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: You`re not missing anything, but it sounds like the jury might be missing something. The thing that they`re looking for is perhaps another suspect. Jodi has admitted -- her defense has admitted she did it. So these questions are a little ridiculous.
One thing that maybe it could possibly be is that there are only a few jurors that think this, so the rest of them got together and said, OK, you think that? Fine. We`re going to go back to this detective. We`re going to ask him. We`re going to have him prove again what he said, and that maybe the majority is doing this for just a couple of the minority jurors who were not listening to the evidence at all.
GRACE: You know, I`m hoping that you are right. And that could very well be.
Let me go back to you, Bonnie Druker. How are the questions asked? Now, when I was practicing law, the jury could ask questions. And I noticed that in some jurisdictions, the jurors will have to write it down, the foreperson, if they`ve even got one yet. But they will pass it to the bailiff. The bailiff will give it to the judge. The judge, if it`s not objectionable, like asking for hearsay or some other objection, will then ask the question.
How are -- explain to the viewers how this is working in the Arias trial.
DRUKER: Yes, I mean, the jurors are writing it down, giving it to the bailiff. The bailiff is giving it to the judge, and the judge is bringing out the questions.
What`s really interesting to note, Nancy, is we`ve -- you know, we`ve been here every single day. And usually, there`s maybe one question, two questions. But this was, like, eight or nine questions, which is pretty amazing if you think about it.
GRACE: I mean, when you look at these questions -- Did you check out the roommates` alibi -- I guess Flores nearly did a backflip.
We are taking your calls. Out to Sharon in North Carolina. Hi, Sharon. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy. I have a question in that, especially if I was a juror, I would want to know, based on the fact of the friends that have come in of Travis`s that have said that he told them he was afraid of Jodi, that he was worried that something might happen to him, that she was stalking him -- I would have concerns in the fact that he let her in his house. She was there for 15-some-odd hours. They slept. They had sex. They took pictures. Was he afraid of her?
GRACE: You know, that`s an interesting question. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," you know, many a true word is spoken in jest. And you`ve got a lot now, I would say half a dozen of Travis`s friends, even father figures to him, stating that it was brought up more than once -- maybe in a joking way, maybe in a serious way -- that he was actually afraid of Jodi Arias, afraid to break up with Jodi Arias.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Yes, Nancy, it`s true. But you and I know there are no perfect victims, right? There is a possibility that he was afraid of her, but then he suspended his judgment because she seduced him with sex. You can have poor judgment and be the victim of homicide.
And the fact that this keeps being brought up again and again means to me that the public doesn`t understand what it means to be a victim. When you are a victim, you lose your ability to have perspective, to protect yourself, to see how malicious another person can be. Victims open their doors to perpetrators. That`s what it means to be a victim!
So I think that the prosecution should have put on an expert who talks about battered wife syndrome, battered boyfriend syndrome, stalking victims, people in our society who are victimized again and again because they have grown up in environments where they did not learn self- protection. And we know that that was true of the victim in this case. He had an impoverished background.
GRACE: Well, I`m just -- Bethany, I`m just bowled over, Dr. Bethany, that the jury is now asking, Well, did you check out the alibis of the roommates? Hello? In the defense opening...
MARSHALL: Nancy...
GRACE: In the defense opening, Bethany, they tell the jury, we did it. We did it. But we did it in self-defense.
MARSHALL: Nancy...
GRACE: So why are they asking this?
MARSHALL: They are not listening! They have a certain paradigm in their mind, and the paradigm is that a beautiful woman could not have done this. It must have been the other males in the household. And they are sticking to that dogmatic belief system.
GRACE: Well, let`s just see if they heard something different than we did. Take a listen to Jodi Arias herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way anyone else could have left your palm print in blood on that wall. No way. Get that through your head.
ARIAS: If I was going to ever try to kill somebody, I would use gloves. I have plenty of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody said you were -- you know, you had planned this out perfectly. Maybe you were going there to just talk to him, have a good time with him. Something got out of hand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: How many times was Travis stabbed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than I want to remember. And I`m not going to sit here and show you pictures of him after the fact. I don`t do that. That`s not how I work. That is not for me to do. But eventually, those photos will come out. Jodi...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Man, she`s convincing. She is convincing. And as I look at her crying and sobbing, I got to remind myself of Travis Alexander sliced from ear to ear.
And tonight, we get an inkling that the jury is siding with Jodi Arias, that they are actually considering that his roommates killed him? They have been asking questions about, Do the roommates have alibis? Did you really check out the alibis? Did you find the weapon on her? In other words, How do you know it was her grandfather`s .25?
Hello? Listen to this. I knew I heard it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. There is no question about it. The million-dollar question is, what would have forced her to do it? And throughout this trial, you will hear that Jodi was indeed forced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements, defense attorney, Atlanta, Mickey Sherman, defense attorney and author out of New York.
Mickey Sherman, it`s like "Alice in Wonderland." Everything`s upside- down. The jury`s questions, to a fault, almost every one of them, were defense-leaning. They were all questioning the detective`s work, the police work.
Did you find the weapon? Why didn`t you find the weapon? How do you know -- suggesting how do you know it was the grandfather`s stolen weapon? Why didn`t you send off this fiber? Have you looked an the roommates` alibis?
There`s more I haven`t gotten to yet, Mickey. This is not going well, I`m telling you!
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, "well" is whatever the jury decides. But there`s two things going on here, Nancy, you got to understand. In the post-O.J. Simpson criminal justice world, there`s an inherent distrust by the jurors of many, many witnesses, whether they be law enforcement or not.
And then you add to that what Beth Karas mentioned before, which is an enormous issue here, and that`s the "CSI" effect. The best shows, the most watched shows these days are "CSI-NCIS," "Law & Order." Everyone knows every episode.
What the juries do often is forget about what the lawyers say, president, defense attorneys, and say, We`re going to crack this case because we know everything about NCIS.
GRACE: We`re going to crack this case. You know, Mickey?
SHERMAN: It`s true.
GRACE: I think you`re right. What about it, Kirby?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think he`s absolutely 100 percent right that jurors sometimes want to go off on their own investigation. They want to second guess the police.
Even when the defense, as in this case, has actually said, We killed him, which is astonishing to me -- I mean, independent of my questions of the defense. But when the defendant admits to killing them and the jury still asks questions like this, I think, you know, the prosecution should be alarmed and the defense should be -- you know, they should feel pretty good right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you want, I can show you some pictures of him. Do you want to see pictures of him?
ARIAS: Part of me does and part of me doesn`t!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why, because you don`t want to remember?
ARIAS: No! I just...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi...
ARIAS: There`s a morbid curiosity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi...
ARIAS: I wanted to know how he died!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander. There is no question about it. The million-dollar question is, What would have forced her to do it? And throughout this trial...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Even in the wake of the defense attorney admitting up front in opening statements, somehow members of this jury seemingly are siding with Jodi Arias and casting doubt on the roommates of Travis Alexander.
We are taking your calls. To Carole, Illinois. Hi, Carole. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call. Since Jodi has clearly demonstrated what she`s capable of, why would anyone believe that she was afraid of Travis Alexander?
And also, why would anyone believe those crocodile tears? She`s crying for herself because she knows the mess that she`s gotten herself into. She`s not crying from remorse, not from remorse. Do you think so? Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Carole in Illinois -- Carole in Illinois, thank you for calling. And I`m going to throw that question to someone that knows Jodi Arias better than all of us, Patrick Henry, former colleague of Jodi Arias, used to carpool with her, also knew Travis Alexander. Patrick, thank you for being with us.
PATRICK HENRY, FORMER COLLEAGUE OF JODI ARIAS (via telephone): Hey, thanks very much, Nancy.
GRACE: Patrick, what do you make of what`s happening in court today?
HENRY: Oh, I don`t know if I can say it on air, but it`s a bunch of crock. I believe that she`s -- she`s faking it all the way through. And she`s just trying to lean upon the sympathy of people that don`t think anymore.
GRACE: Let me ask you a question. You were a former colleague with Arias. Explain to me, what do you know of her? What is her disposition?
HENRY: Well, Nancy, really, to be honest with you, I would travel with her two to three times a week, an hour-and-a-half drive. Every once in a while, we would all carpool.
And frankly, I -- after driving about 200 or 300 miles a day, I really don`t like driving at night. So whenever you can get someone else to drive, hey, let them drive.
And there would be several of us driving together, me, my daughter, and other folks, and I really didn`t know very, very much about her. Matter of fact, the one time she raised that question, she said, If anyone ever asks you anything about me, tell them you know nothing.
I said, Jodi, I don`t know anything. All I know is you have a sister up in Redding. That`s all I know about you. And so she was really, really -- she was, Oh, oh, that`s good. And I was, like -- and it was so nonchalant. And I never really thought nothing of it because, you know, we`re just traveling back and forth an hour-and-a-half going, an hour-and- a-half coming...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: Can I see the pictures?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have your blood at the scene. Your hair with blood at the scene. Your left palm print at the scene, in blood. What`s going on there?
ARIAS: Well, I can explain the blood and the hair. I don`t know about my left palm print.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can you explain the blood and the hair?
ARIAS: Well, because I used to bathe Napoleon all the time and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hadn`t been there since April. Right?
ARIAS: Uh-huh. Well --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s had the house cleaned several times since then. And this hair was not just a hair. You know, from the shower or something. This hair was stuck with blood, and obviously had blood on it at the time it got stuck where it ended up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: In a stunning turn of events, seemingly, the jury is siding with Jodi Arias. Questioning the police investigation, questioning the alibis of Travis Alexander`s roommates. Questioning whether the gun that killed Travis Alexander that shot him in the face was Jodi`s grandparents` weapon. Where did the knife come from? Could it have been somebody else`s weapon?
A series of questions that has got to have stopped the prosecution in its tracks.
Joining us right now, a long-time friend of Jodi Arias. They used to carpool with her. Also friends with Travis Alexander. Patrick Henry is with us.
Mr. Henry, you described a scenario that occurred about two months prior to Travis` murder where a group of people were talking together about the breakup of Travis and Jodi Alexander. What happened?
PATRICK HENRY, FRIEND AND FORMER COLLEAGUE OF JODI ARIAS: Well, in that conversation, we were all discussing and someone had brought up, I wonder what happened to all of Jodi`s ex-boyfriends? And one young lady said, they`re probably buried in the desert somewhere. And that kind of shocked me after thinking about what had happened to him afterwards.
GRACE: That was pretty profound.
HENRY: Yes.
GRACE: That someone that knew both of them says, wow, I wonder what happened to all her other old boyfriends and the answer is yes, they`re probably all buried in the desert. Ha, ha, ha. You know, it`s amazing to me how many people commented on I bet she kills Travis if he breaks up, I bet she`s killed other boyfriends. And in fact she did.
After the breakup, what did she have to say to you about it?
HENRY: Well, basically, we would meet in passing and all she said, oh, me and Travis, we`re not seeing each other. And I was like oh, OK, cool. You know, and left it at that. But I mean, prior to that, you know, as we would drive all the time because she had our carpooling stopped because she moved to Arizona to be close to him. But then we would also come back together in our team events and I ran into her a couple of times. Oh, me and Travis are no longer together. I was like, oh, great. And that was it. Pretty much it.
GRACE: What do you think happened between Arias and Travis Alexander?
HENRY: Wow. I believe that she was bitter because of the fact that Travis didn`t want her anymore. That because this woman would text and drive at the same time. Anytime a text came through, she was constantly texting Travis or constantly trying to call him, while we were driving, and it was -- she`s driving. So she`s driving about 60, 70 miles an hour. And I was kind of like, hey, you know what? Watch the road, you know?
But she was in love with Travis. She didn`t want anyone else to have him, matter of fact, whenever people were talking, she always wanted to know what was going on when Travis was talking to other people. So she`d always kind of scurry over there to hear what`s going on.
GRACE: What do you make of the defense claiming that Travis Alexander of actually hurt Jodi Arias?
HENRY: For all those people that know Travis Alexander, we know he`s a kind good hearted young man that came from a long ways. I kind of looked up to him even though he was younger than me. He came a long ways and I`m sure a very short period of time. And he`s helped out so many people. And he has never ever, ever, from all the people that I know and the -- and the circles, and I`m talking tens of thousands of people had anything negative ever to say about Travis.
GRACE: With me is Patrick Henry, also taking your calls.
Back to you, Beth Karas, the stunning turn of events in court where the jury is questioning the roommates` alibis. Especially, aside from the roommates, the questions about the knife and the .25 caliber. What were their questions there? You know where that`s going, Beth.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Right. You know, maybe they were wondering, hmm, could they -- could one of the roommates have helped her? Maybe one of the roommates liked her and helped her. But really their alibis checked out. And the puzzle to a lot of us was, how did they live in that house with a body decomposing because the friend said as soon as they walked in the front door downstairs, they could smell the decomposition.
They didn`t know what it was. Well, you know, one of the roommates told me, this is Zack Billings, that he wasn`t even there until the day the body was found and he did notice it that day because he had been house sitting for his girlfriend now wife`s parents with her. The other roommate -- I never talked to Enrique Cortez. He was at work the day of the killing, but, you know, they stayed in their rooms.
Travis was in the back of the master bedroom, in the bathroom, with the door locked. So -- but it is a little odd they didn`t smell it.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Lilly in California, hi, dear. What`s your question?
LILLY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. Thank you so much for taking my call. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
LILLY: This has not been brought up but I noticed that there are two photos of the sink area where the blood is. One of them has the tape measure. And one does not. I can swear that if you look in the faucet, the reflection, there is a woman there. I can almost put my life on it that that is Jodi taking a picture of herself before the tape measure is on it.
Look in -- look in the faucet there. There is a distinct silhouette right there and I could swear that that is Jodi. I know she took that as a trophy before the investigators came.
GRACE: Well, you`re absolutely right.
Beth Karas, what about it?
KARAS: Well, it turns out -- these are crime scene photos. This was not a photo that was recovered from the camera found in the washing machine. And while you know it`s a good investigation, that`s somebody from the police department in the mirror. It may look like Jodi, but it`s not.
GRACE: OK, Beth. I just dear nearly ran from the photo as if it were a monster because the caller is absolutely right. Man, what a sign. Other questions being asked.
I want to go out to Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining me out of Philadelphia tonight.
Dr. Manion, weigh in on what your theory is on the case.
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, I think the prosecution has done a good job. They haven`t overprosecuted unlike the Casey Anthony case which I think was overprosecuted.
GRACE: Well, I don`t know be about that. Putting up a lot of witnesses that don`t hit the mark aren`t necessarily putting up too many witnesses. And I`ve never -- you know, you got one swing at the ball, Dr. Manion. One.
MANION: I understand.
GRACE: If there`s an acquittal, you don`t get a do-over. This is -- this is it. I always advocated as a prosecutor, you put everything in you can possibly put in. And then you don`t have any regrets.
MANION: Well, I think the jury feels pressure, too, because it is a death penalty state and they want to make sure if they`re going to render a death penalty verdict that they explore every possible opportunity. And you`re right. "NCIS" has so many shows where you think one thing is going on and because of some type of fancy trace evidence or forensic evidence or some autopsy evidence --
GRACE: Or kooky juror.
(CROSSTALK)
MANION: The whole case has turned around. So I guess that`s why they`re asking those questions. I agree with the earlier commentators.
GRACE: Well, so what is your theory?
MANION: But right now --
GRACE: How do you think it went down, Doctor?
MANION: I saw a photograph of him where he was described as being annoyed in the shower. And I think this was, you know, after they had many hours of sex and I think he may have said, you know, why don`t you leave? And he`s taking -- she`s taking pictures of him and perhaps she -- he didn`t like that and pushed her away or knocked the camera down and the next thing you know she exploded. So you know, hell hath no fury. So she --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know which pictures to show you. How about that one? You remember him?
ARIAS: Yes. Is he naked? In the shower?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: Travis would never go for that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Soon after you and him had sex on his bed.
ARIAS: It couldn`t have been too soon after.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An hour or so.
ARIAS: The last time we had sex in his bed was in April.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jodi Arias caught on tape and today a stunning turn of events as the jurors seemingly side with Arias` camp.
Back out to you, Matt Zarrell. We also note that they questioned the fingerprint expert. They asked, why was the towel not tested for bleach? Was there a wrist or neck strap on the camera in the washing machine? A lot of more questions to the fingerprint expert. Why?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, I don`t know where the jury is going with this because in addition to the fingerprint expert, they also asked numerous questions for Ryan Burns including time stamps on his text messages between him and Jodi Arias.
GRACE: Let`s go back to the question that I was referring to, the question regarding the fingerprint expert.
Out to you, Marc Harrold, former police officer, attorney and author of "Observations of White Noise."
Marc, they are questioning the techniques and what the fingerprint expert did. That`s not good.
MARC HARROLD, FORMER OFFICER, ATLANTA PD, ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "OBSERVATIONS OF WHITE NOISE": It`s not good at all. You know, the prosecution must just be baffled. This should be about her affirmative defense and they`ve got this big long break until January 29th to give whichever juror -- a couple of jurors who were asking these questions to think about this.
I think everybody is right. I think that they think they know something about these procedures. They think they know something about fingerprint, how to cover evidence. These questions baffled me. They came out of nowhere. And I`m really worried about that long break because -- what`s the 29th that the trial resumes. That gives these jurors a lot of time to think about stuff and really come up with alternate theories that just aren`t relevant.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Kirby Clements, Mickey Sherman. Breaks in a trial only help the defense. They really do because now, by the time they come back, the state`s evidence is not going to be fresh in their minds, Mickey.
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": And they won`t be as shocked as they were from the photos and the videos. But you know what, if the worst thing you can say about these jurors is that they`re asking too many questions, that is not a bad thing in my book. I got to tell you. A woman`s life is at stake.
GRACE: No, Mickey, I`m not concerned about asking a lot of questions. And yes, a life is at stake. It`s Travis Alexander`s life. All right?
SHERMAN: He`s not on trial. She is.
GRACE: Yes, but this is about his life. And no, I don`t mind a lot of questions but when they are all suggesting that the jury is not buying anything that the state has told them when right out front, the defense says, my client killed him.
I mean, Kirby, they go on to say, was the knife used in this crime recovered at the scene? What surfaces did you print? Why didn`t you print -- fingerprint all the surfaces? Very disturbing. They obviously are finding fault in what the state did.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, Nancy, I -- and not that I want to side with the state in this instance but I will have to say that those are disturbing questions, but you know what? At the end of the day, the defense is going to have to get over the hurdle of the fact that this man was shot and this man was stabbed and they have nobody else that they`re going to blame for this.
So at the end of the day, despite these questions that you have, I am loath to say as a defense attorney that I think the jury is pretty much going to end up saying all of these questions didn`t matter. They probably got --
GRACE: I don`t see it with these questions. I mean, they`re asking, where was the knife? Where was the murder weapon? Why didn`t you recover the knife? This is not looking good. The jury seemingly siding with Jodi Arias.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We have been poring through literally thousands of pages of documents and have hit upon a very disturbing e-mail that I shared with Bethany Marshall and Alexis Tereszcuk. This is an e-mail we believe was sent by Jodi Arias to a woman that Travis Alexander was dating.
I`m going to let you read it, Alexis. Go ahead.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: "You are a shameful whore. Your heavenly father must be deeply ashamed of the whoredoms you`ve committed with that insidious man. If you let him stay in your bed one more time or even sleep under the same roof as him, you will be giving the appearance of evil. You are driving away the Holy Ghost, and you are wasting your time. You are also compromising your salvation and breaking your baptismal covenants. Of all the commandments to break, committing acts of whoredom is one of the most displeasing in the eyes of the Lord.
"You cannot be ashamed enough of yourself. You are filthy and you need to repent and become clean in the eyes of God. Think about your future husband and how you disrespect not only your respect but him as well as the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Is that what your want for yourself? Your future, your salvation, and your posterity is resting on your choices and actions."
GRACE: OK, OK, I say we get the gist. OK. Now, Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com.
Let me see Alexis and Dr. Bethany, please.
Alexis, we have to consider the source here, because this is written by a woman who I`ve had -- I`ve got about 38, 39 close-up photos of her behind. I mean, close up. Close up. I can`t really say on the air. I went to -- let`s see, one, two, three, four, five, six years of law school, so I could look at a close-up of Jodi Arias` -- anyway, and she`s writing this e-mail, thoughts to another woman about how the other woman is the big whore.
TERESZCUK: Exactly, and she`s using all these religious terms for a religion that she only joined because she wanted to impress Travis.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait.
TERESZCUK: Where she`s coming with these?
GRACE: Brett, can you show me our line producer right now, please? Let me see the control room cam. Because tonight we have in senior producer, Drew Eiden, and the moment we started talking about this, Drew, you decided to show the naked shots of Jodi Arias.
Just wondering why. Just -- yes. OK. Thanks, Drew.
Dr. Bethany Marshall, what about this e-mail? She`s sending this e- mail to some poor girl that has gone out a couple of times with Travis Alexander.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, you know, Freud called this the moral defense. That`s when you invoke morality to have control over another person, to shame, coerce, punish, and bend them to your will. And remember, she did it because this was a faith-based community of do-gooders, and so she did the worst thing she could to this other person, was having power over her by shaming her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Specialist Joseph Johnson, 24, Flint, Michigan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Action Badge, a field medic volunteered for every mission. Parents Dennis and Terry, sister Jenny.
Joseph Johnson. American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you took pictures of him in the shower just before he died.
ARIAS: I don`t think he would allow that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the camera actually took a couple of photos by accident during the time he was being killed.
ARIAS: Really?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, really? Now what`s so intense about this is that the defense admits in opening statements that she killed Travis Alexander, so everything you`re seeing is a lie. And she is so good at it.
Out to the lines, Linda, Texas. Hi, Linda, what`s your question?
LINDA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Well, I`ll play the 13th juror. I`m thinking of her MySpace page, the candle, the witchcraft and a sacrifice, and that there is another person in the inner circle involved, and that`s going -- that would be my reasonable doubt.
GRACE: Wait, what`s your reasonable doubt?
LINDA: Her practicing witchcraft with that candle and her MySpace, and her -- even though she was lying during her interrogation, I think some of it may be true about another person being there with her. And I think that it was a sacrifice.
GRACE: You think that it was a --
LINDA: A ritual sacrifice.
GRACE: Wicca witch-type, like devil worship sacrifice?
LINDA: Yes. Yes.
GRACE: OK. Well, I can only say thank God in heaven that you`re not on the jury. OK. Thankfully this jury does not know about her witch MySpace posting.
OK, I`m scared.
Happy birthday tonight to Kathy Kesterkarny. Super mom to twins Gabriella and Isabella. Extremely premature. But thanks to mom Kathy, they beat the odds.
Happy birthday, Kathy.
ABC`s hidden camera hit "What Would You Do?" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
