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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Oakland Fire Deaths Rise to 36/New Theory on Jogger Mom Kidnapping Motive; Ohio Man Broke Into Homes to Kidnap Girls; Girl Sleepover Drowns, Babysitter Arrested; Brutal Hit and Run Sends Kids to Hospital; Jodi Arias Cleaning Toilets in Jail; Man`s Murder Allegedly Witnessed by Parrot. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired December 05, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST (voice-over): How is it that dozens of people can incinerate when a warehouse bursts into flames? As searchers try to find

other bodies, police are mounting a case.

A PI who worked with Sherri Papini`s family to find her during those three weeks in captivity says all evidence points to sex trafficking.

The clues were all there, and now police may have found the man who has been stealing children from their beds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dead of night (INAUDIBLE)

BANFIELD: And doing unspeakable things.

And where was the baby-sitter when a little 5-year-old drowned in a filthy swimming pool? What`s going to happen to her now that cops say she was

doing drugs?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Hi, everybody. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.

Thirty-six people are dead tonight, suffocated and burned beyond recognition in fast-moving inferno that swept through an Oakland warehouse

during an electronic dance music part, the rescuers searching for bodies in the ruins of the building after fire brought down the walls and collapsed

the floors, spreading the flames and the smoke everywhere.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB MULE, FIRE SURVIVOR: And I wasn`t able to just, like, pull him out. And the fire was just getting too hot and the smoke was just getting too

bad, and I had to -- I had to -- I had to leave him there. And I wasn`t able to get him out!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: People lived illegally in that building, which did not have a party permit. It did not have a residential permit. And now the

devastating scene is one of the worst structural fires in this country in years at the warehouse that was known as the Ghost Ship.

CNN correspondent Brynn Gingras joins me live now from outside the scene in Oakland, California. Where are they in this investigation? How much

longer until they know the true nature of the extent of the death?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, they`re only four days into this investigation. They have a lot longer, because they have a lot

of questions they still need to answer, the DA here in this county actually commenting today, saying she`s got two questions she needs to answer. And

one is, is there any criminal liability? And if so, who is responsible,

But those questions can`t even be asked, Ashleigh, until they can answer other questions, such as how did this fire even start? Right now, they are

continuing to just even take out buckets of evidence from this building that`s about a half block behind me, sifting through them to kind of

collect evidence to try to answer how this fire did start.

What they do know right now, though, Ashleigh, is that it looks to have started in the back of the building. But as you even just mentioned, no

permits. This was not a building that should have housed as many people as it did, shouldn`t have housed anybody for that matter, and it made it very

difficult, nearly impossible for people to escape once this fire started.

BANFIELD: And then Brynn, even those trying to help had to get out themselves once they discovered that the integrity of the remaining

structure was so conflicted that their lives were in danger. The ones trying to find the rest of the bodies can`t even do their jobs. When will

they be able to search the rest of the 30 percent of the building that`s left for the remaining victims?

GINGRAS: Exactly. Earlier today, that`s what the issue that was presented to all these firefighters who are working around the clock. They went in

and they tried to continue the search for victims, and they had to get out because of the structural integrity of the building. So then they had to

bring in engineers to make sure the shore up the building. And now they are back in there continuing their search.

They have about a quarter of this building left to go through, and as you said, 36 bodies have been located, have been brought out. Thirty-three,

according to authorities, have been tentatively identified. And now they`re going through that painstaking process of actually calling

families. We know at this point, Ashleigh, at least three people lived -- or are from over abroad. So having to contact families who don`t even live

in this country, as well, has been difficult for authorities.

BANFIELD: So Brynn, you hit the nail on the head. This is not only a physical, overwhelming task, but it`s also a mentally taxing task to find

all of the loved ones and the relatives of the people who died in that.

You can see from the pictures what`s left, you know, yellow tarps marking where people went for a party or lived or applied their art trade. And it

is thought that Donna Kellogg (ph) was one of those people. And Joshua Howes is her ex-boyfriend. He`s live with me now.

Joshua, can you hear me?

JOSHUA HOWES, EX DIED IN FIRE: Yes, I can hear you.

BANFIELD: I can barely hear you, Joshua, but I am so sorry for your loss. I`m not sure if -- can you hear me, Josh?

[20:05:04]HOWES: Yes, I can hear you loud and clear.

BANFIELD: OK. You`re very faint for me. I hope our viewers can hear you. But I just want to reiterate how...

HOWES: OK. Is it my scarf?

BANFIELD: There you go. I can hear you better now.

HOWES: Is it my scarf?

BANFIELD: Yes, I think that might have been it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can hear you now.

HOWES: OK.

BANFIELD: OK. Josh...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) right here, sir.

HOWES: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Obviously, we`re just trying to get things hooked up on the scene, so if our audience can just bear with us as we try to find out more

about this.

Josh, how did you find out that Donna was in that fire?

HOWES: I was -- I got a phone call. I got a phone call from -- it was relayed to me through people close to Donna, ex-boyfriends and girlfriends

basically, and they called me. I was driving. I pulled over. I was getting coffee for a friend who was doing a spot at a radio station. And

she just said, Donna died in a fire -- in the fire.

I had been getting calls earlier that morning, people asking me, Oh, there`s a big warehouse fire. Do you know anybody? And I didn`t know.

Are you safe? Of course I`m safe. I wasn`t there. And then about an hour later, once we went down to the radio station, then I got the call that it

-- that Donna had attended the show. So I wasn`t surprised. Donna loved house shows. So...

BANFIELD: Did you know- Joshua, did you know anyone else maybe who went with Donna, any of the other people who didn`t make it out of there?

HOWES: Oh, sure. Sure. She was there with her roommate, Denaldo (ph), and with one of -- another one of Denaldo`s colleagues. They all would

play music together. And so it was -- it was basically a recital of friends and family who were all close to the performers.

BANFIELD: Did they survive, the people she was with?

HOWES: No. A lot of the performers -- the performers that I knew, that Donna knew, they perished.

BANFIELD: How many friends did you lose?

HOWES: Pardon me?

BANFIELD: How many people did you lose? How many friends or colleagues, or you know, acquaintances did you lose in this fire?

HOWES: Well, Donna was the primary one. I was only loosely acquainted with Denaldo and her roommates. Thankfully, most of her roommates escaped.

Yes.

BANFIELD: I just can`t imagine what you`re going through trying to sort of piece this together in your mind, how this happened. Joshua, stand by for

a moment...

HOWES: (INAUDIBLE) very easy...

BANFIELD: Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead, Joshua.

HOWES: Hello? Go ahead. Well, it`s very -- the answer -- these are all really important questions, and I really appreciate you giving some of us a

chance to give direct answers to these questions because we don`t have a dog in the fight. We don`t have all -- of the dogs in the fight are gone.

We`re the only dogs left.

BANFIELD: Joshua, I`m very, very sorry for you. I can`t tell you -- I wish we were talking under different circumstances. But it has been --

it`s been harrowing to hear some of the stories of those who were inside trying to rescue people like Donna, others who were there, people who lived

there, went there.

In fact, one guy who spoke with the press shortly after this had all happened was Bob Mule. He was in there. He`s a photographer. And things

went quickly into the danger zone for him right as he was trying to rescue a fried. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MULE: I saw just, like, this, like, rolling -- this rolling -- rolling, like fire. And started yelling, There`s a fire, and like, running to the

front, and like, telling everyone who was downstairs, Get out, there`s a fire, there`s a fire.

And all within that moment, I was looking for a fire extinguisher. I mean, there`s a bunch of people looking for fire extinguishers, and it`s, like,

they`re all over the place. But it`s, like, in that moment, of course, it`s like, where are they?

I don`t know if people, like, knew immediately what was going on upstairs. But downstairs, I was very vocal, and like, the lights ended up going out,

so it was dark. And of course, people were panicking.

Like, smoke just started to -- there was a point where I, like, busted through my door. When I saw the fire, I was going to go get my camera and

my computer. But like, I busted through my door and it was just all this black smoke and I was, like, couldn`t breathe. And I was, like, with my

phone, and like, the lights went out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:10:08]BANFIELD: Robert Rowe is a fire investigator. He`s the president of PyroCop, Incorporated. Robert, I don`t understand how early

on in the investigation right now, they are already able to zero in on the origin, the area of origin, where it started. They haven`t even cleared 30

percent of that building. How did they do that? How did they do it so quickly?

ROBERT ROWE, FIRE INVESTIGATOR: Well, they have to basically -- they have to take their time going through their fires. There is a procedure and a

process that you have to go through as an investigator to make sure you cover all of the areas, all of the potential ignition sources, all of the

burn patterns that you recognize as an investigator going through a building.

So you have to take a lot of things very slowly. You have to go through the process slowly so you don`t miss anything.

BANFIELD: Do you think they`re going to find an actual cause, given the amount of damage in there?

ROWE: It`s going to be tough. There`s a lot of damage, as you said. You know, they`re going to have to really take their time and look at

everything. And they may come up with an undetermined cause. I mean, we have to all be prepared for that.

BANFIELD: Sometimes that happens, you know? That happens.

ROWE: Sometimes that does happen, yes.

BANFIELD: Yes. Bob, thank you.

We`re going to continue to follow this story. Clearly, there could be criminal implications for those who are responsible, who may have been

responsible. And so when that information comes out, as the facts come out, we will certainly report them to you and continue to follow when they

have what they said was an updated death count. And they did say it will go up.

I want to take you to California there, as well, because authorities are trying to track down two women suspected in the alleged kidnapping of that

jogger mom, Sherri Papini. But now investigators may be looking down a very different road. You`ll hear what kind in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:15:44]BANFIELD: Authorities might be entertaining a very odd twist in the case of the California mother, Sherri Papini, who vanished and then

turned up three weeks later, beaten and chained and branded and dumped roadside with a bag over her head.

Steve Gibson is the news director for KQMS radio. He`s in Redding, California, tonight. What is this new possible theory? What do they think

is the motive behind all of this?

STEVE GIBSON, KQMS (via telephone): Well, Ashleigh, as you know, Keith Papini had another interview. He granted another interview Friday night.

And he didn`t reveal any new theories, and neither has the sheriff`s office.

BANFIELD: But at this point, it seems that a lot of people who are close, at least, to the process and those who are watching even from afar say it`s

eerily similar to cases that involve sex trafficking. Do you think this is the road that the investigators are traveling, or are they really wide open

at this point?

GIBSON: I think they`re pretty wide open because it doesn`t have a lot of the -- a lot of the characteristics that would fit the profile of sex

trafficking -- her age, her unwillingness to go along, beating her up, in effect, damaging what would, in effect, be the product, and a number of

things that just don`t point to sex trafficking, though I don`t think investigators at this point can imagine what it possibly is.

BANFIELD: And I think that`s why so many people are so flummoxed by a lot of this.

Want to play for you what Steve just talked about. Steve just talked about Keith Papini, Sherri`s husband, talking to "20/20" on ABC and giving more

details about everything, what his wife was like when he saw her, the condition she was in, what he went through. Have a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEITH PAPINI, HUSBAND: On of the officers kind of, like, braced me and kind of put his arm around me and he said, you know, Prepare yourself.

She`s alive and you just got to be happy.

They branded her. I just wanted to see her, so I just ran past everybody, and I, you know, throw open the curtain and she was there (INAUDIBLE) in

her bed. And her poor face -- I just hugged her and I just held her. I felt like I hugged her for, like, 20 minutes. I was so happy that she was

there, and I just kissed her all over. And then I got, like, nauseated just looking at her because it`s so hard for me to see her like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Keith Papini described the kinds of injuries that his wife endured in those three weeks -- a broken nose, bruises all over her body,

scabs, and a branding, an actual branding. Her hair had been either cut or shaved off. But there`s still so much we don`t know about this. And they

have two little kids, ages 2 and 4.

So here is Keith talking a little bit about what those children went through in those three weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAPINI: He was just standing there and he had his left hand on her face. He was just staring at her. And he was just sitting there, you know, tears

in his eyes with his hand on her face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And of course, talking about those children looking at a photograph of their mother and touching the photograph because that`s all

they had at that time.

There is one detail when it comes to those children. It turns out the children are what Sherri was thinking about when she was in captivity to

the point where she had only their thought and a piece of cloth that she pretended was her baby. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAPINI: She literally lived through hell. The things she told me that she did, acting like she was tucking in our kids and -- she told me she one

time took some piece of cloth and rolled it up like it was Violet (ph), and she would rock it! She`s so strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:20:06]BANFIELD: Bill Garcia is a private investigator who`s volunteering his services to work with the Papini family. Bill, I asked

Steve Gibson, who`s been reporting on this story, about the theories of why Sherri Papini was held, tortured and dumped in the manner that she was.

And everybody has a thought. No one has the facts yet, unless they`re with the authorities keeping it close to their vest.

But you have some theories, as well. What are they?

BILL GARCIA, PAPINI FAMILY PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: I do. We`ve been working that area for quite some years on a number of different type cases, and we

recognize that there`s a very high influx of cartel in that area. And it`s primarily because of the drug cultivation in the area.

But when they move into the area, they expand into all areas, including sex trafficking. The Interstate 5 corridor from Los Angeles all the way up to

Portland is heavily used for transporting sex trafficking victims. And Redding is especially a hotbed for that to the point where there are

actually state and local agencies that combine to create a task force specifically for the trafficking. And once we heard the nature of her

injuries, it brought that realization even closer because we`ve seen...

BANFIELD: I`m going to ask you about that in a minute, the nature of her injuries, because you just heard Steve Gibson say, Why would you do this to

someone...

GARCIA: Exactly.

BANFIELD: ... if that was your product? And I`m going to get to that in a moment. But first, to that very point that those two women, who are the

only suspects right now, are ostensibly still out there. Keith Papini talked about that. He is very worried that they are still out there. Have

a listen to what he said to "20/20."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The threat could still be present. Nobody knows who did it or why they did it or where they are. And that`s got to be

terrifying for a dad like you.

PAPINI: It`s terrifying, but you know what? My family is with me now. I think of it differently now. Clearly, I want justice, but right now, I`m

just happy that my wife is back. I don`t have to raise my kids without her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So Bill, to that question, why would someone who wanted to wear down a woman they nabbed off a jogging trail, who knows better, ostensibly,

would know that there are police somewhere at some point that could help her -- why would they want someone like that, and then why would they just

dump her?

GARCIA: Well, you have to realize that there`s people out there in the world who do nothing but look for potential victims. I believe they

thought Sherri Papini was younger than she was. There was an opportunity for them to take her. They could be low-level members of an organization.

Essentially to them, they may have seen dollars. You pick up a young girl like that, you turn her in to a group, could be worth anywhere from $1,500

to $2,500 cash on the spot, and you`re done.

I think what happened in this case was there was such an outcry by the community, and her face was so broadcast throughout the region,

immediately, that she became a liability. I believe it was at that point - - these groups want to make a dollar, regardless of what the outcome of what they`re doing is. They`re going to make a dollar regardless.

The problem is, she brought a liability to them, and so now they have to deal with this. I think that the integration of this ransom specialist had

something to do with it. I believe that they were so angry at her that they did these things.

I`ve seen this in the past. I`ve seen the beatings, the humiliation. It`s not the norm for a trafficking case. In a trafficking case, they wear them

down, but they usually do it with keeping them up for several hours, giving them different types of drugs, not the beatings. The beatings I believe

came as a result of them not being able to utilize her in this trade.

BANFIELD: Wow. I mean, that certainly sounded like retribution. Many of us shaking our heads thinking if you want someone as a product, why you do

all of this to her? And it sounded like...

GARCIA: You wouldn`t.

BANFIELD: ... like someone got angry. Listen, it`s still a theory. I want to be super clear, Bill, this is still a theory and we are waiting on

a lot of facts in this case. But I`d like to have you back as we learn more about this, and hopefully, if we find someone, if we find those people

responsible for this. Bill, thank you.

GARCIA: You`re welcome.

BANFIELD: There is also this, and it is really the stuff that nightmares are made of, a man literally grabbing little girls out of their bedrooms.

And the video actually showed him doing it. And guess what? The police think they actually may have caught him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:29:13]BANFIELD: A serial kidnapper has been on the loose in Ohio. First, he allegedly tried to grab a 10-year-old from her bedroom. And then

police, who have this surveillance video to work with, say that he kidnapped a 6-year-old girl, and he was successful on this one. In fact,

he held her captive for 17 hours.

As it turns out, tips came pouring in, and it looks as though the police may have actually caught their man. And may I just say that when we say he

held a little girl for 17 hours, the police were only able to couch it this way -- that there wasn`t, like, a Barbie doll game going on. It was a

horrifying ordeal that this little girl went through for 17 hours in a strange home.

[20:30:00] The only thing she could really remember was another woman`s voice outside the room, and the wallpaper looked like it had some kind of a

hunting pattern on it. Josh Boose is a news anchor at WTAM in Cleveland. Josh, this is an amazing development.

We were hoping that when we showed all of those surveillance pictures, when we showed that car that had a mismatched front panel, and a guy who walked

with a strange gait, that there might be some resolution to this case. And they really think that they`ve got their guy, don`t they?

JOSH BOOSE, NEWS ANCHOR AT WTMAM IN CLEVELAND: Yeah, they do. I mean -- and I think this is something I have to tell you, Ashleigh. I mean, everyone

here in northeast Ohio, parents and families particularly, breathing a huge sigh of relief tonight.

I think that they thought the feds, the police thought that this would be pretty easy, because we did have that video. We did have, as you mentioned,

that wallpaper, some description. We knew what this guy looked like to some degree, even though his head was covered in that video.

But, it took such a long time to find him, and now they feel like they finally found this guy. So, really a sense of relief tonight here in

Cleveland because this is just horrific. It`s been going on a while.

BANFIELD: Yeah. And thank God for the police on this one. With me now on the phone is Sergeant Jennifer Ciaccia at the Cleveland Division of Police.

Sergeant, thank you so much for being with us. You think you`ve got your man?

JENNIFER CIACCIA, SERGEANT, CLEVELAND DIVISION OF POLICE: Absolutely. We are very confident with the DNA match that we have the correct suspect in

custody.

BANFIELD: So the DNA match, tell me about that.

CIACCIA: Well, it`s fairly new to the State of Ohio. The profile that they used is called familial DNA. And what they did was they utilized DNA found

with the victim to create a profile that initially matched to the suspect`s brother, and then through that they were able to, you know, do some further

investigation and eventually obtained a warrant for this.

BANFIELD: Wow.

CIACCIA: . suspect`s DNA and it matched.

BANFIELD: Through his brother. Familial DNA. Through his brother. And it`s so unclear, sergeant, the two incidents, the 10-year-old girl was an

attempted abduction. There was a perpetrator reaching through her bedroom window and pulling on her leg and she got away.

The 6-year-old did not get away, in fact, was thrown in a satchel. This is a picture of him actually carrying the child in a satchel out of the home.

So am I correct in this pattern? He left some kind of touch DNA on the ladder that he used in one of those abductions? And then of course they got

DNA from him in the case of the 6-year-old?

CIACCIA: That`s correct.

BANFIELD: And that.

CIACCIA: We know that it came from an area in Cleveland.

BANFIELD: Wow. And can I ask you, what effect did it have? All of these broadcast outlets, our show included, showing that video over and over

again of that car that was so distinctive with that strange quarter panel in the front and that interesting walking style that this man had as he

walked down an alley.

He had a strange, sort of odd limping gait. Did any of that contribute to finding him?

CIACCIA: Well, obviously, we had a lot of pictures in this case, and that was really fortunate for the course in the investigation. And we have said

it time and time again and I`ll say it again now that we owe the media a huge thanks.

We appreciate so much when you guys partner with law enforcement and help us get those photos out there and help us get people identified. We in

Cleveland can`t say enough about, you know, how fortunate we are to have the partnerships that we do.

Just the broadcast result hits and hundreds of tips coming in through our tip lines and all of those things helped with the course of the

investigation.

BANFIELD: And the man on the screen is Justin Andrew Christian, 29 years old, and he is in a world of hurt right now, facing a number of charges in

relation to these abductions. We`re gonna continue to watch this case and see just exactly what happens to Mr. Christian at this point.

This is every mother`s worst fear. A little girl named Aubrey, five years old. Look at that face. Absolutely angelic. Mom drops her off at the

babysitter`s house. Aubrey did not come home, and you will not believe why.

[20:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Tonight, the world has one less little angel. On a Friday night, a lot of little girls like this sweet little 5-year-old girl named Aubrey

Alcott, on Friday night they will spend an evening with a babysitter. That is not strange.

But Aubrey did not survive the time that she spent with her babysitter. She drowned in a swimming pool. And the frantic heartbreaking 911 call will

leave you speechless.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got a little girl who fell in the pool. And she`s not breathing. Her lips are blue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old is the child?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s about five.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know how long the child was under the water?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With her head tilted back, you need to pinch her nose closed, completely cover her mouth with your mouth, and blow two breaths

into her lungs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blow into her mouth. Give two more breaths.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pinch her nose. Give her deep breath.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t. I can`t. I can`t move.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know this is hard. I`m gonna help you until somebody gets there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need you to stay calm for me so I can help her. Try to keep the mother calm, okay? But let those compressions and the CPR

continue, okay?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:40:00] BANFIELD: Not okay. The question you might have, though, the man on the 911 call is the friend of the babysitter. The babysitter is trying

to do CPR. But people might want to ask the babysitter what she was doing before the CPR, before the discovery of that little girl in algae-infested

filthy pool that had lawn furniture in it.

Because the police say that that babysitter was smoking dope while the baby, 5 years old, was going outside in the backyard, that`s little 5-year-

old girls will do. Because there was a pet pig out there that she wanted to see. And so she did.

But Aubrey couldn`t swim, and Aubrey fell in the pool, while her babysitter again was allegedly inside smoking dope. And now, that babysitter,

Jacqueline Bjorndal, is facing aggravated manslaughter of a child.

Joining me now, former prosecutor Peter Brill, defense attorney Midwin Charles, and defense attorney Joey Jackson. You know, you see those

pictures. You hear that narrative. You want to exact justice yourself. But at the same time, I look at the charge, and think aggravated manslaughter

of a child. Aggravated, Joey? Aggravated?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah. You know, this is outrageous. Letting a 5-year-old in the backyard is one thing, and that`s fine. But without

proper supervision is another matter, in addition to which, when you`re supposed to be providing for the care and support of the child, and you`re

inside engaging in drug activity and other things, it just boggles the mind.

Now to the aggravated manslaughter charge, this I how they do in Florida. There`s a 13-year mandatory minimum, and the judge could impose a life

sentence, and it relates specifically, Ashleigh, to caregivers who are negligent, and as a result of their negligence, a death results.

And so therefore, she has an awful lot of explaining to do, this precious 5-year-old child is not here, because she could have done more.

BANFIELD: Is there any responsibility guys of the parents? This is not her home. The parents brought this child to this environment where there is a

pool uncovered, unsafe. There is a person whom the parent maybe should know better. This is the home where this child was dropped off. Do they bear any

responsibility for this?

MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I would be careful about doing that. What happens is now you have a slippery slope, right? Every time a parent leaves

a child in the care of someone, that they assume is going to do a good job, to hold that parent responsible I think is just a little bit going too far.

BANFIELD: I wouldn`t take my child and drop my child off at a house with a pit bull, wit a pit bull that maybe isn`t, you know, tethered.

PETER BRILL, FORMER PROSECUTOR: We talked about a house with a filthy backyard, hazardous waste in that backyard. They`re saying a pool was

filthy. The sliding door to the house was a block of plywood and.

BANFIELD: There were power tools and dangerous things all over the backyard.

BRILL: And this longtime babysitter -- the parents supposedly knew had a course of drug use over the entire night before and the morning of.

BANFIELD: Does it make a lick of difference that during that 911 call, that babysitter, who is facing aggravated manslaughter of a child, was trying to

save that child, was doing everything she could. Does it make any difference?

BRILL: Too little too late.

BANFIELD: Is it too little too late? Is it?

JACKSON: It certainly could go to the issue of what we call mitigation. Meaning, you know, when you`re factoring in -- it doesn`t excuse guilt, but

as to punishment, look, she tried to do the best she can. But as you say, you know, that`s after the fact.

And I also think the homeowners have some responsibility for the manner in which the pool was kept and the manner in which it`s what we call

attractive nuisance.

(CROSSTALK)

BRILL: . they could see the baby at the bottom of the pool?

JACKSON: No, because if you leave a pool in a condition like that, it`s problematic, and you`re creating a circumstance which results in death.

CHARLES: I see Joey`s point, but that`s more of a civil argument.

BANFIELD: Jacqueline Bjorndal is in a big amount of hurt at 22 years old because she`s facing (inaudible). She`s got a mount to defend on this.

She`s the one whose gonna have to beg for some kind of mercy after what happened to that beautiful beautiful little girl.

JACKSON: Thirteen years mandatory minimum.

BANFIELD: Thirteen?

JACKSON: Yeah.

BANFIELD: Michigan is calling out for your help. The police there really need you to look at some pictures, because there is a driver that did

something that will curl your knuckles. The minivan on your screen brutally ran down a family. Absolutely plowed through a family, put two little kids

in the hospital. And guess what? Just kept on going.

[20:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Police in Kalamazoo, Michigan, have released some surveillance video of what can only be described as one of the most brutal hit and run

accidents I`ve ever seen. It put two little kids in the hospital. And when you see this video, you`re going to see that it is simply a miracle that

anybody survived.

And you will see where the police are asking for your help tonight, to find the person who was behind the wheel. It is a very graphic video so I can`t

play it more than just twice. I do want to draw your attention though to how it plays out.

The family is right there. It`s a dad with his two little children. And the two children was sort of in his right. And there`s a dog he`s walking on

his left hand side, as they start to cross the road.

So we`re going to roll the video and you will see what happens as they go across the road. It is absolutely astounding that they survived.

JACKSON: It`s horrifying to watch, Ashleigh. I mean, you know, in an instance like this, when you talk about there being a survivor, it`s

amazing that`s even the case.

BANFIELD: Joey, those two children are in the middle, and the dog is highlighted at the far --

[20:50:00] -- to the closest part of your screen, we`re assuming in. The dad is stumbling towards all of them.

The dog took of. They didn`t find him for 36 hours. The two children were sent to the hospital, 2 and 4 years old. The 2-year-old was released. The

4-year-old was in critical and upgraded to stable, thank God. Thank God.

BRILL: This is why people take off, right? To avoid the DWI charge.

(CROSSTALK)

CHARLES: It wouldn`t surprise me alcohol and maybe even drugs, you never know. But what astonishes me when you watch this video is how small the

children appear. And how miraculous it is that anyone survived.

BRILL: It astonishes me that the driver doesn`t slow down.

JACKSON: Right, just keep on.

CHARLES: Not at all. Not at all.

BANFIELD: And that`s why we want to show you that dark colored -- what they think is a minivan, could be a 2001 to 2007 Dodge Chrysler mini man. Maybe

brown or burgundy. If you`re in the Kalamazoo area, you know anything about this, call your police. That person needs to be put away. Could have killed

those people and may have done some life-long damage to them.

JACKSON: It`s all about accountability.

BANFIELD: I want to update you on Jodi Arias. Because a lot of people have been wondering what has been going on since she was ordered to pay $32,000

of her prison fees to the family of Travis Alexander.

She`s been working as a porter for 10 cents an hour, and she has turned over one of her first checks to the family of Travis Alexander. And his

sister wrote, you ready? Buckle up.

She will rot in prison for the rest of her pathetic life. She will die in there and that brings me joy, never to see the beauty of the world again,

never to enjoy the holidays with her family again.

I`m at peace knowing the monster is rotting in prison until she day she passes away from this life and enters into another prison where she will

stay until she sent to an eternal home in hell burning within the flames.

Keep the checks coming, for you owe our family a lot more money for the nightmare you created. Just think of the life and the job that you could

have had if you weren`t an evil, murdering spawn of Satan.

JACKSON: I can`t even hold that strong language against them based on the brutality of her crime, Ashleigh. When you think about what she did to

Travis Alexander and the life she took and the manner which she took it. And we all talked about it and covered it at the time. I mean, you know,

their passion is very well placed.

BANFIELD: If it makes anyone feel better about that. Because I agree, you never get over being a victim`s family member. You never get past -- you

don`t get closure. You never get that.

JACKSON: Right, yeah.

BANFIELD: If this helps at all, if she owes $32,000 to that family and she`s paid ten cents an hour, I was never good in math, but I did do this.

It will take her 320,000 hours to pay what she owes that family, which is 40,000 days, which is 109 years.

BRILL: You`re hoping that money goes to the family first and not to her commissary.

BANFIELD: Right.

JACKSON: Art she was doing and selling her hair and everything else.

BANFIELD: I have another case for you that is -- I can`t even -- odd. I`m just going to say very odd. It is a failed murder suicide in Michigan.

There is one witness, a parrot. I`m not kidding. An actual parrot. What do you think this parrot witness has been overheard saying? Something about

shooting? Listen.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t (beep) shoot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yeah. Does the parrot make it on the stand? I`m not kidding, it`s a real question. The the judge had to answer. You`ll find out.

[20:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Back with me, Joey, Peter, and Midwin. So, when we went out to break, I told you about the failed murder suicide -- actually, the murder

was successful. The suicide was not, and therefore, Glenna Durham was facing first-degree murder for killing her -- allegedly killing her

husband.

They owned a parrot, and the parrot apparently mimicked both of their conversations before the shooting. I want to replay, if you`re just joining

us, what the parrot is saying now about shooting. Have a listen.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t (beep) shoot! Don`t (beep) shoot!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I`m sorry -- the judge has to decide -- thank you to our editors for looping this. The judge has to decide whether or not the parrot takes

the stand. I`ve never heard anything so crazy. I cant` believe it even made into court. What do you think happened? You`re smart lawyers, what do you

think happened?

CHARLES: I say usually if someone takes the stand, you have to be able to cross examine that person. So my guess is no.

BRILL: The judge is probably treating it more like a recording than as a person.

CHARLES: Yea, right.

BANFIELD: Okay.

CHARLES: Not a testimony.

JACKSON: I say the parrot is inadmissible, right? Because again, as Midwin suggests, you want to question the parrot, you want to speak to the parrot,

you want to get answers from that parrot.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: . can provide answers.

BRILL: It`s a tape recorder.

JACKSON. Then it would be very difficult.

BRILL: It`s a primitive tape recording.

BANFIELD: Can we play that once again?

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: . really clear what the court would heard.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t (beep) shoot!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yeah. The judge said no. We are told that the judge decided no. But I think you`re right. I think maybe this would be the kind of thing

where this kind of evidence -- but how odd is it that the parrot was mimicking both of the last two people people in the room when this

happened? The wife and the husband engaged in that acrimony.

BRILL: Canine dogs can testify, parrots apparently cannot.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Hey, by the way, I just want to thank all you folks out there who have joined up and been checking us out on Facebook. We are like going

through the roof which I am thrilled about.

We`re sending out a lot of funny stuff and interesting tidbits from the program. So, if you are gonna follow on social, there you go,

@ashleighbanfield for Facebook and @ptjusticehln on Twitter.

Great to have you here with us tonight. Thank you very much for being with us. We`ll see you back here at 8:00 for Primetime Justice. Forensic Files

is next.

[21:00:00]

END